MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: Cheeks on January 03, 2019, 11:11:20 PM
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Yes, concerning
Wisconsin has looked like crap last few games
Kansas State, too
IU struggled at home tonight against a bad Illinois team.
We need to beat X in a very bad way.
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Have no idea if both teams were good/bad, but Illinois played Georgetown tough in a pre-conference game earlier this year and actually looked competitive. They may be better than advertised despite some disappointing losses.
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Cheeks
Opponents are looking pretty much as expected. The UW and KState wins will have a lot less juice in March than many on here thought. MU needs to take care of biz in down BE or they might be in trouble come March.
As I know you will challenge me again, but UW is not a very good team this season. Glad we beat them, but far from marquee W.
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Concerning? Pretty much every bracketology I’ve seen has us as a 4-6 seed currently. We had a great non-con. 10 BE wins and we’re in...just like almost any other year.
I expect 12-14 wins. If we do that we’re a 4-6 seed at worst.
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Yes, concerning
Wisconsin has looked like crap last few games
Kansas State, too
IU struggled at home tonight against a bad Illinois team.
We need to beat X in a very bad good way.
FIFY
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While not looking great, I wouldn't exactly worry yet. Prior to their loss to Minn, UW was 15 in NET. I think it's unlikely that they drop out of the top 30 so Q1 win. History tells us that Kansas will win the B12 so we're fine there. I4 would have to really drop off to be anything less than a Q1 loss. While right on the cusp of Q1 and Q2, Buffalo should roll through the MAC and be a considered a good win. Now that conference play has started, I don't think 'Ville will stay top 30, but I don't think they will drop out of the top 50. Really the only concerning non-conference opponent is K-State, and with the injuries that they're dealing with, that's understandable. As is stands now:
I4- Q1 loss
KU- Q1 loss
'Ville- Q1 win
K-State- Q2 win
UW- Q1 win
UBuff- Q1 win
That's certainly fine for a non conference right now. If teams continue to drop off, there may be a reason to worry.
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Aw, hell no. Somebody else beat teams we beat. Marquette is screwed. Cancel the rest of the season. Why isn't this in the doom thread, as clearly the end is near.
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UW is in trouble next year. They run *everything* though Happ. He lead them in points, rebounds and assists last night. I mean, they only had five assists last night and he had three of them. And for those crowing about Gard, I have seen very little player development under his watch.
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It's enough fun "worrying" about one thing we can't control (Warriors). Certainly not gonna worry about a bunch of other things we can't control.
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Well yeah. If it comes down to what our opponents have accomplished, then this season is going to go much worse than anticipated. It will be disappointing if we get anything less than a sixth seed.
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Yes, concerning
Wisconsin has looked like crap last few games
Kansas State, too
IU struggled at home tonight against a bad Illinois team.
We need to beat X in a very bad way.
You forgot to add southern who has 1 win.
And North Dakota who stinks!
And lest we forget, UTEP!
Oh no!!!!!
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Good thing the combined record of the 3 teams who have defeated Marquette is 37-4. Phew.
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K State is down two of their top players. That would affect any team. I'm not certain if their return status has been determined yet, but assuming they are able to come back they should return to being a very solid team. Regardless, they were highly ranked at the time we beat them and that was widely noted. I don't see that win being greatly tarnished if KSt tumbles due to injuries to marquee players.
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Yes, concerning
Wisconsin has looked like crap last few games
Kansas State, too
IU struggled at home tonight against a bad Illinois team.
We need to beat X in a very bad way.
MU should be at a place where it shouldn’t be a "concern" what their opponents do. Win the games in front of them and it will take care of itself. As far as I’m concerned, Wisconsin can lose every game it plays going forward. I would never root for them to win in any scenario. And Goose is right, WI is not very good and will be worse next year.
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K State is down two of their top players. That would affect any team. I'm not certain if their return status has been determined yet, but assuming they are able to come back they should return to being a very solid team. Regardless, they were highly ranked at the time we beat them and that was widely noted. I don't see that win being greatly tarnished if KSt tumbles due to injuries to marquee players.
KSU still lost to Tulsa when they were at full strength too, though. I went through this in another thread, but they look BAD right now. Sure, losing Wade for a month or so is going to hurt, but they almost dropped games to George Mason and Southern Miss at home in the last couple weeks. Losing a guy averaging 13/7 shouldn't make that big a difference against the cupcake portion of the schedule. If they keep playing the way they have since we played them, they won't be a Q1 win. They could really drop dealing off with a tough Big 12 this year if they don't figure something out soon.
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KSU still lost to Tulsa when they were at full strength too, though. I went through this in another thread, but they look BAD right now. Sure, losing Wade for a month or so is going to hurt, but they almost dropped games to George Mason and Southern Miss at home in the last couple weeks. Losing a guy averaging 13/7 shouldn't make that big a difference against the cupcake portion of the schedule. If they keep playing the way they have since we played them, they won't be a Q1 win. They could really drop dealing off with a tough Big 12 this year if they don't figure something out soon.
K-State has already dropped from a Q1 win to a Q2 win. They would have to drop another 20 spots to fall to Q3 which is unlikely. They would also have to gain 20+ spots to get back up to Q1, also unlikely.
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hairy
Spot on across the board. All Mu needs to do is win the games they should win and take care of business. If that happens, no issues in March. If they need to have the UW and KState wins help them in March, shame on them. They need to take care of business in BE the rest of the way. Saturday is a big game for the boys.
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hairy
Spot on across the board. All Mu needs to do is win the games they should win and take care of business. If that happens, no issues in March. If they need to have the UW and KState wins help them in March, shame on them. They need to take care of business in BE the rest of the way. Saturday is a big game for the boys.
Hopefully they play even better on Sunday then!
But agreed on all fronts gooze
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I think we have a team for the first time in probably 5 years that’s good enough where we don’t have to worry about 2nd order stuff like this. This team has the talent to control its own destiny into the tournament.
If it gets to the point with this team where we’re worrying about opponents wins and losses in 10 weeks, I will find that more concerning in the big picture than just for this season alone.
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MDMU
While many are very optimistic on this team, there have been a couple of threads tracking the 2nd order stuff pretty closely for two months. I have never been believer in 2nd order stuff, but judging by threads on here, many think it MU needs that help to improve their possession in March. That said, I definitely agree with your comment on what is the talk 10 weeks out. If folks are talking about 2nd order stuff, the team is either not good enough or under performed.
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I think we have a team for the first time in probably 5 years that’s good enough where we don’t have to worry about 2nd order stuff like this. This team has the talent to control its own destiny into the tournament.
If it gets to the point with this team where we’re worrying about opponents wins and losses in 10 weeks, I will find that more concerning in the big picture than just for this season alone.
I understand this line of thought, especially since we've been on the bubble the last two years, and have had the "blind resume test" game, but unless you're getting a 1 seed (which we're not), it's still important to pay attention to how your former opponents are doing.
Worst case scenario, UW, and Buffalo drop out of the top 30, Louisville drops out of the top 50, and K-State continues their skid and falls out of the top 75, which would leave us with 0 Q1 non conference wins. While that is both unlikely, and wouldn't keep us out of the tourney, it would more than likely drop us a few seed lines/worse location.
Should it be a major worry? No, we should get a bid regardless, but it is worth keeping an eye on.
MDMU
While many are very optimistic on this team, there have been a couple of threads tracking the 2nd order stuff pretty closely for two months. I have never been believer in 2nd order stuff, but judging by threads on here, many think it MU needs that help to improve their possession in March. That said, I definitely agree with your comment on what is the talk 10 weeks out. If folks are talking about 2nd order stuff, the team is either not good enough or under performed.
Will other results effect us? Absolutely, yes. Will they prevent us from getting a bid? They'd better not, or you would be correct in that we would be under-performing.
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DJO
Agreed on your thoughts based off the assumption that MU delivers in BE. The quality NC wins are not going to be as quality as one thought come March. MU has to deliver in BE and cannot afford slip ups. IMO, the wiggle room is not quite as comfy today as it was 2-3 weeks ago.
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K-State has already dropped from a Q1 win to a Q2 win. They would have to drop another 20 spots to fall to Q3 which is unlikely. They would also have to gain 20+ spots to get back up to Q1, also unlikely.
Their next 4 games are all tough. It's not out of the question for them to go 1-3 or even 0-4. That could drop them another 20 points, don't you think?
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MU Formula:
Win 12 guaranteed tournament invite
Win 11 probable tournament invite
Win 10 Dicey
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Their next 4 games are all tough. It's not out of the question for them to go 1-3 or even 0-4. That could drop them another 20 points, don't you think?
I don't know enough about NET calculation to say. I also don't know when they are supposed to get healthy again. I will say this though, if they continue to play poorly and lose, they could very well drop out of the top 75. However, if when they get healthy, they have a strong final month, it will make up for it. If i had to guess where they'll be in March I would say right about where they are now. Certainly not a cupcake, but not the high quality Q1 win that we thought it would be a month ago. Plus, as Goose pointed out, if it matters more than "are we getting a 4 or 5 seed", or "where are they sending us", the problem will be us, not them.
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MU Formula:
Win 12 guaranteed tournament invite
Win 11 probable tournament invite
Win 10 Dicey
11 is guaranteed unless its some really flukey combination of wins. 10 is where I'd start to get worried and 9 would have us right out I think.
The PAC12 looks like a 1 bid league so the bids have to come from somewhere else. I'd guess the Big East gets 4 bids with the max being 5. Finishing with 11 wins or higher basically assures us of a top 3 league finish.
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I don't know enough about NET calculation to say. I also don't know when they are supposed to get healthy again. I will say this though, if they continue to play poorly and lose, they could very well drop out of the top 75. However, if when they get healthy, they have a strong final month, it will make up for it. If i had to guess where they'll be in March I would say right about where they are now. Certainly not a cupcake, but not the high quality Q1 win that we thought it would be a month ago. Plus, as Goose pointed out, if it matters more than "are we getting a 4 or 5 seed", or "where are they sending us", the problem will be us, not them.
Yeah, I agree with all of this. I don't think we'll have any concern over getting in this year, so the quality of our resume should really just be a matter of seeding. Every little bit helps there too, though, so I'm hoping KSU gets healthy and turns things around here pretty soon.
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Yeah, I agree with all of this. I don't think we'll have any concern over getting in this year, so the quality of our resume should really just be a matter of seeding. Every little bit helps there too, though, so I'm hoping KSU gets healthy and turns things around here pretty soon.
Don't forget that the committee looks at when you beat someone as well which is why they don't just seed based on the analytics alone. Beating KSU when they were healthy and undefeated will still matter in a human sense even though the analytics might say KSU is a crap team over the entire season because of injuries.
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10 is a guarantee. >11 is just about the seeding.
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#peakscoop
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Merely pointing out some of the shine is off a few of those teams. Chance for them to right ship or us to beat some teams that have a high ceiling of their own.
Goose, I think UW Madison extension campus is still a quality team. They have some solid wins that cannot be ignored, but they are struggling at the moment.
Let us hope we take care of business against Xavier.
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10 is a guarantee. >11 is just about the seeding.
I don't know enough about this stuff.
So what if we go 9-0 at home but 1-8 on the road, and that one road win is against the lowest-ranked BEast team (presumably DePaul)? We'd still be guaranteed in with only one road win in the entire season, against a horrible team?
I'm not suggesting we wouldn't be.
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I hear what you are saying, but 21-10/10-8 should still get it.
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Well, here's hoping our lads don't let it come down to that. I'd be disappointed if we're a bubble team, and a little disappointed if we were only an 8-9 seed.
I think we're better than that, and I don't think we'll be sweating it out on Selection Sunday.
Go Marquette!
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Well, here's hoping our lads don't let it come down to that. I'd be disappointed if we're a bubble team, and a little disappointed if we were only an 8-9 seed.
I think we're better than that, and I don't think we'll be sweating it out on Selection Sunday.
Go Marquette!
Lads? Facepalm.
If we can't earn a 6 seed in Year 5, with two juniors, one of whom will be MU's All-Time leading scorer, and the other in the Top 10, AND while the Big East has ZERO Top 25 teams - we've set an incredibly low bar.
8 or 9 seed is a coin flip to win the first round game. Is that really what we expected for the Magical Year 5, on a roster with 2 kids who will go down as two of Marquette's finest?
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Lads? Facepalm.
If we can't earn a 6 seed in Year 5, with two juniors, one of whom will be MU's All-Time leading scorer, and the other in the Top 10, AND while the Big East has ZERO Top 25 teams - we've set an incredibly low bar.
8 or 9 seed is a coin flip to win the first round game. Is that really what we expected for the Magical Year 5, on a roster with 2 kids who will go down as two of Marquette's finest?
Before the season, I predicted a seed range of 6-9. Some will say that is a low bar but that was my objective assessment.
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It's 2019, there are a lot of bad college teams out there. The bubble is always soft. Sure our resume has taken a hit but I would wager that so has everyone else's. That's NCAA hoops in 2019.
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MDMU
While many are very optimistic on this team, there have been a couple of threads tracking the 2nd order stuff pretty closely for two months. I have never been believer in 2nd order stuff, but judging by threads on here, many think it MU needs that help to improve their possession in March. That said, I definitely agree with your comment on what is the talk 10 weeks out. If folks are talking about 2nd order stuff, the team is either not good enough or under performed.
Or people just generally enjoy talking college hoops and how things relate to the team we all love. Marquette isn't really going to need to stress about SOS, RPI, NET, opponents records, etc. this season, and should be relatively high seed in the tourney barring a horrific BE season, but its still fun to talk hoops when MU isn't playing!
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MU Formula:
Win 12 guaranteed tournament invite
Win 11 probable tournament invite
Win 10 Dicey
I think this is very wrong.
11 - stone cold lock
10 - higher seed than we want, still in
9 - probably in, but why the hell did we go .500?
8 - noncon may help us into Dayton, but WTF
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I think this is very wrong.
11 - stone cold lock
10 - higher seed than we want, still in
9 - probably in, but why the hell did we go .500?
8 - noncon may help us into Dayton, but WTF
This is about right. The bubble looks really soft at the moment. 9 could have us left out, but we'd still be a 20-win team with a number of quality non-con wins, even if teams aren't as good as they looked in December.
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Merely pointing out some of the shine is off a few of those teams. Chance for them to right ship or us to beat some teams that have a high ceiling of their own.
Goose, I think UW Madison extension campus is still a quality team. They have some solid wins that cannot be ignored, but they are struggling at the moment.
Let us hope we take care of business against Xavier.
You're probably right about UW, but boy, their last 2 games have been awful. Last night they put up 14 in the first half, then when they got close late in the second half, they had 2 or 3 consecutive turnovers and missed a bunch of FTs to let the game slip away. Happ went 1-8 from the line I think. If they were that bad at home against the Gophers, they may not be all they're cracked up to be.
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This is about right. The bubble looks really soft at the moment. 9 could have us left out, but we'd still be a 20-win team with a number of quality non-con wins, even if teams aren't as good as they looked in December.
Yeah. We've gone from overvaluing to undervaluing our wins based on the last week or so. Last year we were right on the bubble until the end with a 9-9 conference record (albeit in a stronger BE) and ZERO wins over NCAA teams in non-conference. We have 3-4 wins over tournament teams already, depending on what happens to Kansas State. Wisconsin and Buffalo are going to get in. Louisville built a good resume. All 4 losses to top 35 Kenpom teams and wins @ Seton Hall and against MSU. Last year we had 5 total wins vs. NCAAT teams (SHU 2x, Creighton 2x, Providence) and we were right there until the end.
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Sticking with my 22-24 wins, top 3 in the Big East, 5 seed prediction.
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I seem to remember "soft bubble" talk around this time last year, too.
I'd prefer it if our lads just win a f%ck-ton of BEast games, starting Sunday vs. X ... and I think they will.
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I seem to remember "soft bubble" talk around this time last year, too.
I'd prefer it if our lads just win a f%ck-ton of BEast games, starting Sunday vs. X ... and I think they will.
Last year was interesting. The bubble ended up becoming really firm in large part because the teams at the end just didn't do much to separate themselves. Looking from the last four byes to the 2-seeds of the NIT, not a lot separates teams.
Right now there are a lot of teams with weak resumes around the bubble. It'll come down to how much they do to separate themselves in conference play, but when you compare our current resume to the teams that are currently in the "on the bubble" range, we are well ahead of them. That's why 9 should fairly comfortably be enough. Here's the breakdown of the remaining 17 games by Quadrant as they stand now:
Quadrant 1: 5
Quadrant 2: 7
Quadrant 3: 5
So no matter what, if we get to 9, that would mean at least 4 more Q2 wins and a winning record against Q2. We might not have a great Q1 record if teams like Wisconsin, Louisville, and Buffalo fall down the rankings, but they shouldn't fall further than Q2 and that would still give us plenty of heft.
But as you said, win plenty of Big East games and it won't matter.
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And the beat goes on. Iowa State defeats Kansas 77-60.
Who was the poster that called Kansas the Number 1 team in the country a few weeks back?
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Damn we missed out on guys like shayok and burton
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And the beat goes on. Iowa State defeats Kansas 77-60.
Who was the poster that called Kansas the Number 1 team in the country a few weeks back?
#1 teams lose sometimes.
Then they drop to #2-5.
#2 moves to #1.
Then the new #1 loses, and Kansas is once again #1.
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And the beat goes on. Iowa State defeats Kansas 77-60.
Who was the poster that called Kansas the Number 1 team in the country a few weeks back?
I don't know, as I don't follow all the little brat fights so closely, but weren't they, in fact the number 1 team in the country a few weeks ago?
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It's almost as if missing Azibuke hurts them a bit
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I don't know, as I don't follow all the little brat fights so closely, but weren't they, in fact the number 1 team in the country a few weeks ago?
Yes, in the polls
However, in NCAA NET rankings they are 14th BEFORE today's loss. 7th in Sagarin and 11th in Ken Pom (with today's loss).
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One person who did look great tonight was Sandy Cohen III. He hit an awesome double clutch, off glass, mid-range jumper at the buzzer to beat Cleveland State 90-89. Cohen went for 30 pts/7 reb/6 ast on the night. Glad to see him doing well as one of the leaders of the current top team in the Horizon.
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One person who did look great tonight was Sandy Cohen III. He hit an awesome double clutch, off glass, mid-range jumper at the buzzer to beat Cleveland State 90-89. Cohen went for 30 pts/7 reb/6 ast on the night. Glad to see him doing well as one of the leaders of the current top team in the Horizon.
Good for Sandy. I really like him, but it was the right decision to move on and find his level.
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Yes, in the polls
However, in NCAA NET rankings they are 14th BEFORE today's loss. 7th in Sagarin and 11th in Ken Pom (with today's loss).
That is all I was looking for.
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That is all I was looking for.
The rest was a bonus at no cost to you.
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Cheeks
Opponents are looking pretty much as expected. The UW and KState wins will have a lot less juice in March than many on here thought. MU needs to take care of biz in down BE or they might be in trouble come March.
As I know you will challenge me again, but UW is not a very good team this season. Glad we beat them, but far from marquee W.
Wisconsin bounces back tonight to crush Penn State on the road. Faired better than Buzz did at PSU. :D
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Kstate went from 21 down to win today against WVU. They needed that. Hopefully it gets them back on track.
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F%cky just lost at home to Purdue.
Was I supposed to root for F%cky? If so, sorry, I couldn't do it.
Trice sent it into OT by hitting two 3-pointers in the last minute, though the first was a lucky bank shot ... not that any MU fan is allowed to call any team's important shots "lucky" for the rest of this season!
Side note: Carson Edwards had a great game, no surprise there. But with game tied and the ball in his hands as the clock ticked down in regulation, he pulled up from 30 feet and shot an airball that gave F%cky a chance to win it with 3.8 seconds to go.
I still say the smart play there is to take a shot with so little time left that the worst-case scenario is OT. Edwards' dopey shot, with too much time remaining, coulda cost Purdue the game. Lucky for them, F%cky failed.
With this loss, I'm guessing that Ken Pom will move F%cky up to No. 5 in the nation, and Lunardi will have them as a 2 seed.
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#22 Indiana lost to Maryland too.
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Wisconsin is absolutely horrible. Gard cannot coach worth a lick. How did they beat NC state and Oklahoma. Once Happ is gone next year that team wont even be .500
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F%cky just lost at home to Purdue.
Was I supposed to root for F%cky? If so, sorry, I couldn't do it.
Trice sent it into OT by hitting two 3-pointers in the last minute, though the first was a lucky bank shot ... not that any MU fan is allowed to call any team's important shots "lucky" for the rest of this season!
Side note: Carson Edwards had a great game, no surprise there. But with game tied and the ball in his hands as the clock ticked down in regulation, he pulled up from 30 feet and shot an airball that gave F%cky a chance to win it with 3.8 seconds to go.
I still say the smart play there is to take a shot with so little time left that the worst-case scenario is OT. Edwards' dopey shot, with too much time remaining, coulda cost Purdue the game. Lucky for them, F%cky failed.
With this loss, I'm guessing that Ken Pom will move F%cky up to No. 5 in the nation, and Lunardi will have them as a 2 seed.
And with less than 3 minutes remaining, Floppy McDickpuncher threw himself at the floor and drew a ridiculous charge. Thankfully that garbage ended up not meaning anything with the loss.
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Yikes...maybe only one of the three #12s MU played in non con will make the tourney? I won’t lose any sleep over it.
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Wisconsin is absolutely horrible. Gard cannot coach worth a lick. How did they beat NC state and Oklahoma. Once Happ is gone next year that team wont even be .500
They have an All American, recruited by Bo, and a bunch of mediocre role players, almost all recruited by Gard, who wouldn't be getting more than 10-12mpg on a good team.
Rodent Administration, please extend Gard's contract.
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Wisconsin is absolutely horrible. Gard cannot coach worth a lick. How did they beat NC state and Oklahoma. Once Happ is gone next year that team wont even be .500
They had their chance last year to fire Gard.
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Wisconsin is absolutely horrible.
Exaggerate much?
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Bo left Wisconsin the same way that Buzz left us. The only difference is that Wisconsin has not restarted their rebuild yet that took Marqutte until this year to get over. Once Happ is gone it will truly be Gard's team.
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Exaggerate much?
I am frustrated that our opponents are not looking like quadrant 1 wins anymore. I would love to see this team get a 3 seed and make it to the s16. Wisconsin was a huge win not more than 2 weeks ago. Now it looks like an average win.
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I am frustrated that our opponents are not looking like quadrant 1 wins anymore. I would love to see this team get a 3 seed and make it to the s16. Wisconsin was a huge win not more than 2 weeks ago. Now it looks like an average win.
OK, I can mostly agree with that.
You were frustrated so you exaggerated. It happens.
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With this loss, I'm guessing that Ken Pom will move F%cky up to No. 5 in the nation, and Lunardi will have them as a 2 seed.
Beautiful.
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F%cky just lost at home to Purdue.
Was I supposed to root for F%cky? If so, sorry, I couldn't do it.
Trice sent it into OT by hitting two 3-pointers in the last minute, though the first was a lucky bank shot ... not that any MU fan is allowed to call any team's important shots "lucky" for the rest of this season!
Side note: Carson Edwards had a great game, no surprise there. But with game tied and the ball in his hands as the clock ticked down in regulation, he pulled up from 30 feet and shot an airball that gave F%cky a chance to win it with 3.8 seconds to go.
I still say the smart play there is to take a shot with so little time left that the worst-case scenario is OT. Edwards' dopey shot, with too much time remaining, coulda cost Purdue the game. Lucky for them, F%cky failed.
With this loss, I'm guessing that Ken Pom will move F%cky up to No. 5 in the nation, and Lunardi will have them as a 2 seed.
#15. Love pomeroy, but that’s insane.
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#15. Love pomeroy, but that’s insane.
No, it's math. Wisconsin generally runs up the score in low possession games which overinflates their rankings. This year, it's compounded by double digit wins against high majors in low possession games (11 point win at Xavier in 65, 16 v Stanford in 68, 20 v Oklahoma in 62, 19 at Penn State in 63). When compared to teams playing faster, the margins are effectively inflated and they are adjusted to give greater value being away from home.
It's also why the system rates us lower. 20+ point losses, smaller victory margins (especially away from home), and letting cupcakes stay close.
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I am frustrated that our opponents are not looking like quadrant 1 wins anymore. I would love to see this team get a 3 seed and make it to the s16. Wisconsin was a huge win not more than 2 weeks ago. Now it looks like an average win.
Our three losses are pretty much guaranteed to be Q1. The closest one to falling out is Kansas who would need to fall 39 spots.
The wins are definitely closer to being in jeopardy. Creighton has a 23 spot buffer, Louisville can fall 18 spots, Buffalo can only fall 17 spots, and Wisconsin only has 14 spots and that was before this loss. K-State could theoretically regain Q1 status though they are trending down. They are 23 spots out at the moment.
Good news is, we will have some more opportunities for Q1 wins. @Seton Hall, @Butler, St. John's, Villanova, and @Villanova are all currently Q1 wins. Seton Hall, @Providence, @Xavier, Butler, and Creighton could all become Q1 wins as well.
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No, it's math. Wisconsin generally runs up the score in low possession games which overinflates their rankings. This year, it's compounded by double digit wins against high majors in low possession games (11 point win at Xavier in 65, 16 v Stanford in 68, 20 v Oklahoma in 62, 19 at Penn State in 63). When compared to teams playing faster, the margins are effectively inflated and they are adjusted to give greater value being away from home.
It's also why the system rates us lower. 20+ point losses, smaller victory margins (especially away from home), and letting cupcakes stay close.
I subscribe to his website and listen to the pod. As a predictive tool, UW as the 15th best team is still insane. Their WAB is down to 35, probably propped up by the win against OU. They’ve lost 3 out of the last 4 against WKU, Minn and Purdue (who I think is probably as good as I4). I don’t think there are just 15 teams that are better then them going forward.
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I subscribe to his website and listen to the pod. As a predictive tool, UW as the 15th best team is still insane. Their WAB is down to 35, probably propped up by the win against OU. They’ve lost 3 out of the last 4 against WKU, Minn and Purdue (who I think is probably as good as I4). I don’t think there are just 15 teams that are better then them going forward.
I'm not disagreeing, but this is what UW's system does to the math that drives the metric. Large margins of victory in slow paced games coupled with close margins of defeat will produce overinflated rankings. This has been a known quantity for at least 7 years now.
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I'll be rooting for Wisconsin to lose the rest of their games.
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Louisville up big on North Carolina in the first half.
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Louisville up big on North Carolina in the first half.
Kansas State up at Iowa State by 8 in the first half.
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I am frustrated that our opponents are not looking like quadrant 1 wins anymore. I would love to see this team get a 3 seed and make it to the s16. Wisconsin was a huge win not more than 2 weeks ago. Now it looks like an average win.
Yes, my concern, too. I found myself cheering for Wisconsin last night because of the vortex of evil crossed the ghostbuster streams. IU grad cannot cheer for Purdue (except when it involves heart strings like the poor young man that just passed due to cancer), and Wisconsin winning helps us. Of course UW-madison extension craps the bed at home.
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Kansas State up at Iowa State by 8 in the first half.
Actually 9, plus Dean Wade is back. 0 points at halftime but a positive for their season.
Buffalo only 4 at the half on Miami (Ohio).
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Louisville up big on North Carolina in the first half.
All but over now. Big win for the Cards.
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Buffalo and Louisville both up big.
Kansas State down 5, under 4 minutes.
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UL lookin like a big win
Kstate sucks. Just can’t score. Had a shot to help us
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Kansas St. Wins. Dean Wade back. They should be back to top 25 level ability.
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Big W for K State
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UL lookin like a big win
Kstate sucks. Just can’t score. Had a shot to help us
WoW
ISU sucks worse what a choke.
Big wins for us today.
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UL lookin like a big win
Kstate sucks. Just can’t score. Had a shot to help us
K State won
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Big wins by all the aforementioned. When u struggle to score n lose your senior leading scorer it is hard to win.
Wade comes back n KSU starts winning, not rocket science
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Big wins by all the aforementioned. When u struggle to score n lose your senior leading scorer it is hard to win.
Wade comes back n KSU starts winning, not rocket science
Wade didn't play in their win vs. WVU and was 1-5 for 2 points today
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Wade didn't play in their win vs. WVU and was 1-5 for 2 points today
Rocket science.
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/13WjUBTzYRB8go/giphy-downsized-large.gif)
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(https://media.giphy.com/media/13WjUBTzYRB8go/giphy-downsized-large.gif)
Reminds of me and Mrs. Gato last night.
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Yes, my concern, too. I found myself cheering for Wisconsin last night because of the vortex of evil crossed the ghostbuster streams. IU grad cannot cheer for Purdue (except when it involves heart strings like the poor young man that just passed due to cancer), and Wisconsin winning helps us. Of course UW-madison extension craps the bed at home.
There was a Tyler Trent moment of silence before the game last night.
Gasaway tweeted this morning, how awful UW’s OR% is. Don’t know if it’s possible, but maybe it’s such a statistical outlier that their offensive efficiency prediction is skewed by it.
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Yes, my concern, too. I found myself cheering for Wisconsin last night
What??? Im shocked Chicos! youre cheering for Wisconsin........yet again?
P.S.--here is your opportunity to explain that even though you hate Wisky..........you like this and love that and you wish we did more like this and other things the way that they do.
Never ends.
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We will not need any help from the Badgers this year. I’m good with them losing as many games as possible.
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The rest was a bonus at no cost to you.
Haha! That was well played sir!
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What??? Im shocked Chicos! youre cheering for Wisconsin........yet again?
P.S.--here is your opportunity to explain that even though you hate Wisky..........you like this and love that and you wish we did more like this and other things the way that they do.
Never ends.
I’ve explained it many times before. I almost never cheer for them, but their are exceptions when I do....when it helps Marquette or if they are playing someone I despise. Sorry that’s a problem for you. I cheer for Notre Dame when they play USC. Yes, 99% of the time I cheer against the Badgers, but 1% of time I do. And yes, I respect their program, even if I don’t like them...that is possible for rational people to do. I don’t like ND, but I respect how Bree runs his program. So on and so forth.
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We will not need any help from the Badgers this year. I’m good with them losing as many games as possible.
Hope it turns into a Q4 win. Must be hard for those guys though as every game they play in it’s the other team’s super bowl (MU, Minnesota, etc.)
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Hope it turns into a Q4 win. Must be hard for those guys though as every game they play in it’s the other team’s super bowl (MU, Minnesota, etc.)
Hear hear. You forgot to mention, though, that their real rivals, Michigan, Michigan State, and Ohio State, also get up big time for the rivalry games with them, too.
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There was a Tyler Trent moment of silence before the game last night.
Gasaway tweeted this morning, how awful UW’s OR% is. Don’t know if it’s possible, but maybe it’s such a statistical outlier that their offensive efficiency prediction is skewed by it.
Tears for that man and his family. ESPN’s tribute last week was a tear jerker for sure.
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I’ve explained it many times before. I almost never cheer for them, but their are exceptions when I do....when it helps Marquette or if they are playing someone I despise. Sorry that’s a problem for you. I cheer for Notre Dame when they play USC. Yes, 99% of the time I cheer against the Badgers, but 1% of time I do. And yes, I respect their program, even if I don’t like them...that is possible for rational people to do. I don’t like ND, but I respect how Bree runs his program. So on and so forth.
*there
What’s interesting is most everyone else doesn’t have to explain it even once, yet for some reason you have to continue to explain
Over and over.
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*there
What’s interesting is most everyone else doesn’t have to explain it even once, yet for some reason you have to continue to explain
Over and over.
What is more interesting is everyone else that is rational doesn’t ask the question multiple times, but you continue to. So it must mean you have a problem processing the answer.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoAPZq3Y5DbtMti/giphy.gif)
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*there
What’s interesting is most everyone else doesn’t have to explain it even once, yet for some reason you have to continue to explain
Over and over.
Agreed. It's dumb.
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We will not need any help from the Badgers this year. I’m good with them losing as many games as possible.
Yessir.
I love that nobody should feel it's necessary to "respect" their program any more, either.
Kaminsky, Dekker, Hayes, Koenig and Gasser ain't walkin' through that door again, and Gard ain't Bo.
They had a heck of a run. It's over. Unless somebody progresses amazingly well, Happ-less F%cky will be REALLY hapless next season.
Our 20 point win over them at the suddenly quiet Kohl Hole next December will be a drag on our NET rating, but I can live quite happily with that!
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Reminds of me and Mrs. Gato last night.
We’ve all failed to launch at one point or another
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MU82
I am in agreement that I no longer feel the need to respect the Badgers program. There is no doubt that I was envious of what the Badgers had going, and now that run is over. Hopefully MU can take full advantage of their demise when it comes to in state recruiting.
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Yessir.
I love that nobody should feel it's necessary to "respect" their program any more, either.
Kaminsky, Dekker, Hayes, Koenig and Gasser ain't walkin' through that door again, and Gard ain't Bo.
They had a heck of a run. It's over. Unless somebody progresses amazingly well, Happ-less F%cky will be REALLY hapless next season.
Our 20 point win over them at the suddenly quiet Kohl Hole next December will be a drag on our NET rating, but I can live quite happily with that!
They did have a heck of a run, and in my opinion worth respect. I was brought up to respect your opponents, I imagine you were, too. Especially if they did it right. To my knowledge, they weren't cheating, no scumbags on the team, and the like. One of the longest runs in NCAA history for a program that did essentially nothing for 47 years.
I, too, am extremely happy when we beat them, after all it is our Super Bowl. I think you guys are out to lunch to suggest its over, it may take a break, but when you build it up like they did and as provincial of a state that Wisconsin is, they will pull out all the stops to get it going again. This state bleeds 80% red in everything, I think they like having hemhroids just to see red on the paper when they wipe....just the way it is. That is never going to change in a state like Wisconsin where there is only one big state school.
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They did have a heck of a run, and in my opinion worth respect. I was brought up to respect your opponents, I imagine you were, too. Especially if they did it right. To my knowledge, they weren't cheating, no scumbags on the team, and the like. One of the longest runs in NCAA history for a program that did essentially nothing for 47 years.
I, too, am extremely happy when we beat them, after all it is our Super Bowl. I think you guys are out to lunch to suggest its over, it may take a break, but when you build it up like they did and as provincial of a state that Wisconsin is, they will pull out all the stops to get it going again. This state bleeds 80% red in everything, I think they like having hemhroids just to see red on the paper when they wipe....just the way it is. That is never going to change in a state like Wisconsin where there is only one big state school.
I respect what F%cky did, both under Bo and Bennett.
Before that, they sucked for 1,000 years. I have seen no evidence to suggest they will approach anywhere near their golden days under Bo anytime in the foreseeable future. And, first and foremost, they care about football.
F%ck F%cky. They're toast.
Go Marquette!
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Yessir.
I love that nobody should feel it's necessary to "respect" their program any more, either.
Kaminsky, Dekker, Hayes, Koenig and Gasser ain't walkin' through that door again, and Gard ain't Bo.
They had a heck of a run. It's over. Unless somebody progresses amazingly well, Happ-less F%cky will be REALLY hapless next season.
Our 20 point win over them at the suddenly quiet Kohl Hole next December will be a drag on our NET rating, but I can live quite happily with that!
You sure Jalen Johnson is not walking through the door?
Just asking
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You sure Jalen Johnson is not walking through the door?
Just asking
Nope. Don't care. They're toast.
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You sure Jalen Johnson is not walking through the door?
Just asking
Maybe if we keep winning it's our Door.
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Creighton besting Villanova at the half... bring it home!
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Bo was the scumbag.
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Creighton besting Villanova at the half... bring it home!
weren't they beating us at the half?
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weren't they beating us at the half?
And the end!
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weren't they beating us at the half?
The only time our game was tied with Creighton was 0-0 and when the clock read 0:00.00.
This was the amazing part of the Creighton game that was lost with Markus' 53 ... MU did not lead or tie the game during all 40 minutes of regulation and yet won. I cannot imagine that happened but a handful of times in CBB history.
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Creighton besting Villanova at the half... bring it home!
Nova up 10. They were and still are the team to beat in this league.
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Bo was the scumbag.
As a husband, absolutely. As a guy, yup. We’ve had several guys run our program over the years that did same as him.
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Nope. Don't care. They're toast.
Highly unlikely, and if so it will be short lived.
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They did have a heck of a run, and in my opinion worth respect. I was brought up to respect your opponents, I imagine you were, too. Especially if they did it right. To my knowledge, they weren't cheating, no scumbags on the team, and the like. One of the longest runs in NCAA history for a program that did essentially nothing for 47 years.
I, too, am extremely happy when we beat them, after all it is our Super Bowl. I think you guys are out to lunch to suggest its over, it may take a break, but when you build it up like they did and as provincial of a state that Wisconsin is, they will pull out all the stops to get it going again. This state bleeds 80% red in everything, I think they like having hemhroids just to see red on the paper when they wipe....just the way it is. That is never going to change in a state like Wisconsin where there is only one big state school.
Joe Wolf 1983 = Diamond Stone 2015
On the face of it, both programs seem to be following the same path.
agree?
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What is more interesting is everyone else that is rational doesn’t ask the question multiple times, but you continue to. So it must mean you have a problem processing the answer.
Ok—yep I’m convinced. You said so.
Until.....Bucky starts winning again and you tell us how impressed you are with how they play the game and do it the right way.
Same sheet every year.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/3otPoAPZq3Y5DbtMti/giphy.gif)
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They did have a heck of a run, and in my opinion worth respect. I was brought up to respect your opponents, I imagine you were, too. Especially if they did it right. To my knowledge, they weren't cheating, no scumbags on the team, and the like. One of the longest runs in NCAA history for a program that did essentially nothing for 47 years.
Why do you keep repeating this?
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Joe Wolf 1983 = Diamond Stone 2015
On the face of it, both programs seem to be following the same path.
agree?
There is a huge difference, the second that babies are born in WI, hospitals start the cradle to grave brainwashing by putting them in that red crap. With football and their pathetic division they play in, they will likely be competing for division titles year in and year out which has a halo effect. The two big things we have going for us; Milwaukee, because so many basketball players come from urban backgrounds and want to continue playing in that environment. The other, for now, is the NBA presence here. Of course many top programs aren’t in an urban setting and don’t have a NBA team, so it is by no means a guarantor of success.
Let’s also not forget in the mid 80’s MU’s facilities were a joke, no conference, the university was at end of the Raynor run and not exactly clicking on all cylinders. UW-Madison extension is in no way comparable shape and they have all the non alumni in the state slathering for them whenever possible. UW has the Big Ten network, to boot. Go to the mall and try to buy a sweatshirt of MU vs UW Madison extension. No contest. I don't think the Wolf example holds any comparisons based on the reality of where MU was then, and where UW is now.
So no, I don’t think it represents anything of the parallel path as the situation and environment are so different.
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As a husband, absolutely. As a guy, yup. We’ve had several guys run our program over the years that did same as him.
Do tell. We're all ears.
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Highly unlikely, and if so it will be short lived.
Why? Why do you think it is a slam dunk that Wisconsin will be great at basketball again soon?
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depaul beats the pond-less jonnies
so does that diminish our win against st jonnie? i guess, but it's better than diminishing a loss
just win baby!!
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Ok—yep I’m convinced. You said so.
Until.....Bucky starts winning again and you tell us how impressed you are with how they play the game and do it the right way.
Same sheet every year.
Don't particularly care if you are convinced. I was brought up to respect your opponents, if your opponents deserve respect. They aren't cheating best I can tell. They put together an incredible run, I tip my hat to them. That doesn't mean I don't want to beat their brains in every single time we play them. Not sure how you possibly cannot understand this? Larry Bird and Magic wanted to beat each other every time, but they still respected them. Get it? Finally?
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Why? Why do you think it is a slam dunk that Wisconsin will be great at basketball again soon?
In my view they went so long not being able to get it done (47 years), and now just got done having one of the greatest runs in NCAA history (6th longest NCAA streak ever), they won't sit around and just let it die. Too much pride, great facilities, great conference, TV exposure, and enough midwest talent to do it. May not be with current staff, but Alvarez won't sit idly by. Maybe I'm wrong, I hope I am, but I don't see it. They are setup for success because their only in state competition is us, Minnesota by and large can't get their act together, neither can Northwestern. Iowa has been a paper tiger forever. Who is their midwest competition, especially west of Chicago? Probably us. I don't think it is Iowa State.
That streak of theirs, the other schools are Kansas, North Carolina, Duke, Michigan State, Indiana, Kentucky and Gonzaga. That's quite a list to be on.
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Do tell. We're all ears.
Really? K.O. ring a bell?
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Don't particularly care if you are convinced. I was brought up to respect your opponents, if your opponents deserve respect. They aren't cheating best I can tell. They put together an incredible run, I tip my hat to them. That doesn't mean I don't want to beat their brains in every single time we play them. Not sure how you possibly cannot understand this? Larry Bird and Magic wanted to beat each other every time, but they still respected them. Get it? Finally?
If you don’t care, maybe stop responding?
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Maybe I'm wrong, I hope I am, but I don't see it.
No, you don’t hope your wrong.
You say the same sheet year after year and finish your love affair statements of UW with a sentence about how you hope they do poorly, stay down(but don’t think that they will), can’t get back to where they have recently been......but no one believes your story.
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In my view they went so long not being able to get it done (47 years), and now just got done having one of the greatest runs in NCAA history (6th longest NCAA streak ever), they won't sit around and just let it die. Too much pride, great facilities, great conference, TV exposure, and enough midwest talent to do it. May not be with current staff, but Alvarez won't sit idly by. Maybe I'm wrong, I hope I am, but I don't see it. They are setup for success because their only in state competition is us, Minnesota by and large can't get their act together, neither can Northwestern. Iowa has been a paper tiger forever. Who is their midwest competition, especially west of Chicago? Probably us. I don't think it is Iowa State.
That streak of theirs, the other schools are Kansas, North Carolina, Duke, Michigan State, Indiana, Kentucky and Gonzaga. That's quite a list to be on.
OK, we'll agree to disagree.
F%cky is toast.
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No, you don’t hope your wrong.
You say the same sheet year after year and finish your love affair statements of UW with a sentence about how you hope they do poorly, stay down(but don’t think that they will), can’t get back to where they have recently been......but no one believes your story.
You really have to stop.
There are all kinds of sports examples where people can hate on the team or program, and still respect what they have accomplished. You think WCC fans love Gonzaga? I'll bet they respect them. San Antonio Spurs. I'm guessing many would say Duke basketball (yes, they have had a few moments of questionable actions). To pretend I have love or like Wisconsin is laughable. People at home and work would literally be laughing at you, especially Wisconsin week. I have one guy on staff that went to Madison, he has to wear MU stuff to work next week as part of the bet we had. I used to have a Bucky Badger mascot hanging by a a string in my office that was connected to a stick that you would see at some Minnesota football games...a friend gave it to me. At some point I thought it was in bad taste, so it was removed, but that stuck around for a number of years. So please stop with this, it's beneath you....it really is. I cannot stand Wisconsin, which is why I started the -madison thing here years ago. Look it up in the search history.
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OK, we'll agree to disagree.
F%cky is toast.
I hope you are right, but methinks you are using your heart and not your head.
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You really have to stop.
There are all kinds of sports examples where people can hate on the team or program, and still respect what they have accomplished. You think WCC fans love Gonzaga? I'll bet they respect them. San Antonio Spurs. I'm guessing many would say Duke basketball (yes, they have had a few moments of questionable actions). To pretend I have love or like Wisconsin is laughable. People at home and work would literally be laughing at you, especially Wisconsin week. I have one guy on staff that went to Madison, he has to wear MU stuff to work next week as part of the bet we had. I used to have a Bucky Badger mascot hanging by a a string in my office that was connected to a stick that you would see at some Minnesota football games...a friend gave it to me. At some point I thought it was in bad taste, so it was removed, but that stuck around for a number of years. So please stop with this, it's beneath you....it really is. I cannot stand Wisconsin, which is why I started the -madison thing here years ago. Look it up in the search history.
More a response to the statement quoted by the above response, but: damn...why is the board devolving into binary positions? I love a healthy debate--but these threads have turned a little too personal.
Friends, most people who know me agree I am the least likely to be the adult in the room, but let's all take a deep breath.
Go Marquette. A few beers on me if we ever meet in person.
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Really? K.O. ring a bell?
Ok. Didn't know that. But you said several. So....
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More a response to the statement quoted by the above response, but: damn...why is the board devolving into binary positions? I love a healthy debate--but these threads have turned a little too personal.
Friends, most people who know me agree I am the least likely to be the adult in the room, but let's all take a deep breath.
Go Marquette. A few beers on me if we ever meet in person.
Jake Barnes for poster of the day. For as many people that support one team as passionately as we do, we get into a lot of really stupid arguments (of which I'm certainly guilty as well). We all root for the same team, it shouldn't be as hard as it is to be civil.
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I hope you are right, but methinks you are using your heart and not your head.
You'll even argue with those who agree to disagree. What else is new?
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Indiana loses at home to Nebraska 66_51. They look pretty bad. Must have played there best game against us
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You'll even argue with those who agree to disagree. What else is new?
Don't think that was arguing, but rather politely commenting.
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Badgers down 12 mid first half...
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They are having the most annoying kind of season as an MU fan. They are sliding down the S Curve so the win doesn't look nearly as good, but they likely won't lose enough to miss the tournament.
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Can’t say I’m not enjoying these embarrassing performances by the Badgers
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They are having the most annoying kind of season as an MU fan. They are sliding down the S Curve so the win doesn't look nearly as good, but they likely won't lose enough to miss the tournament.
Win just enough to keep Gard.
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Win or lose the badgers look so efficient on both ends of the floor tonight. I’ll be shocked if they don’t crack the top 10 in KenPom by tomorrow.
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I don’t get the love fest of F%CKY by Chico’s?
What have they done? The only major state school with unlimited resources and have one a single championship during WW2. Sign me up....
How many teams play then? 8?
I’d be interested in someone who is smarter then I to see the two schools matched up side by side. (Total wins, tournament appearances, final fours, championships, nba drafted players, etc)
Take f%ucky’s last 5 years out, and they haven’t done sh*t.
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MD 33 - WI 15 Half
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Has Bucky won in 2019? And doesn't some idiot still have them a #4 seed? :o
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Looks like this will be loss #4 in becky's last 5 games. Nice they had a two game win streak after they played us (home wins against Savannah St. and Grambling St.!).
kenpom will probably elevate them from 14 to top 10 after this latest defeat. Go Terps!
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They won at Penn St on 1/6. However, losing tonight would mean they've lost four of their last five.
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Indiana loses at home to Nebraska 66_51. They look pretty bad. Must have played there best game against us
Where?
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As a husband, absolutely. As a guy, yup. We’ve had several guys run our program over the years that did same as him.
Who dumped a body at Autozone from the MU program?
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Don't look now but Bucky is coming back.
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Don't particularly care if you are convinced. I was brought up to respect your opponents, if your opponents deserve respect. They aren't cheating best I can tell. They put together an incredible run, I tip my hat to them. That doesn't mean I don't want to beat their brains in every single time we play them. Not sure how you possibly cannot understand this? Larry Bird and Magic wanted to beat each other every time, but they still respected them. Get it? Finally?
So which guy are you, Bird or Magic...?
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Bucky is coming back...
Maryland will prevail..
Hope the gift of time will be friendly here..
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Epic collapse by Maryland. Horrible defense. Wide open 3s.
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#nutpuncher with a 3
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Maryland up 2 with 40 seconds left. Wisconsin ball after the TO.
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Maryland wins - hooray!
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MD 64 - WI 60 Final
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Indiana loses at home to Nebraska 66_51. They look pretty bad. Must have played there best game against us
Wait...IU lost by 15 at Assembly Hall? How is that possible?
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Pretty sure I heard Maryland went 10 minutes without a field goal.
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Pretty sure I heard Maryland went 10 minutes without a field goal.
You heard correctly - 10+ minutes...
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Bucky is at #2 Michigan next on Saturday.
Big Blue is poised to be #1 next week with Duke's loss.
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Bucky is at #2 Michigan next on Saturday.
Big Blue is poised to be #1 next week with Duke's loss.
Incorrect. The game is at the Kohl hole, would suck even more if they won because they would storm the court (although they would probably do that if UM was still only #2, it is their Super Bowl after all).
Edit: realized that UM will still only be 2 on Sat. assuming they win that game, they'll be 1 the following Monday. Bucky will still storm if they win.
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Incorrect. The game is at the Kohl hole, would suck even more if they won because they would storm the court (although they would probably do that if UM was still only #2, it is their Super Bowl after all).
My bad ...
Bucky is 3 - 5 since the MU game.
They have never recovered from that loss!
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Kansas wins a close one over Texas. DoneDeal drops to 10-7 on the season.
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Kansas wins a close one over Texas. DoneDeal drops to 10-7 on the season.
MU82's call looking better with every one of their losses. It really does seem like we ended up with a much better fit with Wojo
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Wait...IU lost by 15 at Assembly Hall? How is that possible?
Ahh, the classic "I'm going to be the bigger man (we have an alpha here, too!) and not talk about this topic anymore" only to jump at the first chance you get (it's been a while) to bring it up!
You're right though. The true home court advantages like Hawaii would never lose at home by 17 to North Texas or anything! LOL!
And that huge Denver home court advantage would never allow for them to lose to powerhouse Abeline Christian! Or Northern Colorado by 16! Or North Dakota by 21! Or South Dakota!
Good stuff as always Lenny. Denver and Hawaii, tougher places to win than IU as proven by IU losing tonight at home in the Big Ten. Scientifically proven by Northern Colorado and North Texas.
LOL!
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MU82's call looking better with every one of their losses. It really does seem like we ended up with a much better fit with Wojo
Full disclosure: I wanted Shaka, too, and I was bummed when Mrs. Shaka grabbed hubby's onions as if she were Davison and dragged him off to Texas.
But within a day of Shaka spurning us (probably less), I was ready to move on. And given all of the other retreads and/or short-timers whose names were bandied about, I was happy after we got Wojo.
I certainly wanted to give him a full cycle to see how he could rebuild our proud program in a way that would make both the fans and the administration happy. So far, no reason for me to be unhappy. I think he's done an outstanding job. Time to take the next step.
The fact that so many seemingly knowledgeable Scoopers -- many of whom I respect a great deal (and some I respect less) -- appeared to be so unwilling to even give Wojo a chance, I didn't get it.
I mean, if Wojo had gone 11-22 in his second season, as Shaka did at UT, Scoop woulda effen exploded!!
So every once in awhile, I do have to take a fun little swipe at Shaka ... just because!
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Ahh, the classic "I'm going to be the bigger man (we have an alpha here, too!) and not talk about this topic anymore" only to jump at the first chance you get (it's been a while) to bring it up!
You're right though. The true home court advantages like Hawaii would never lose at home by 17 to North Texas or anything! LOL!
And that huge Denver home court advantage would never allow for them to lose to powerhouse Abeline Christian! Or Northern Colorado by 16! Or North Dakota by 21! Or South Dakota!
Good stuff as always Lenny. Denver and Hawaii, tougher places to win than IU as proven by IU losing tonight at home in the Big Ten. Scientifically proven by Northern Colorado and North Texas.
LOL!
Duke tough place to play, they lost to Cuse today at home. College hoops
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Duke tough place to play, they lost to Cuse today at home. College hoops
Duke was also without Reddish for the whole game and Tre Jones for most of it.
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Do wins even matter anymore? Wisconsin still ranked #20 in Net rankings.
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Wins no matta
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Do wins even matter anymore? Wisconsin still ranked #20 in Net rankings.
NET hasn't been updated since their loss. That being said, despite their total number of losses, they have yet to lose a game by more than 7 points, and I don't think they'll get punished too much by losing by 4 at the 22nd ranked NET team. Even with a loss Saturday, unless its a blowout, I would guess that they're still top 25 NET next week.
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NET hasn't been updated since their loss. That being said, despite their total number of losses, they have yet to lose a game by more than 7 points, and I don't think they'll get punished too much by losing by 4 at the 22nd ranked NET team. Even with a loss Saturday, unless its a blowout, I would guess that they're still top 25 NET next week.
I just find it humorous how "strong" the big10 is that Wisconsin could be finish the season 15-18 and be ranked in the top 25 Net.
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NET hasn't been updated since their loss. That being said, despite their total number of losses, they have yet to lose a game by more than 7 points, and I don't think they'll get punished too much by losing by 4 at the 22nd ranked NET team. Even with a loss Saturday, unless its a blowout, I would guess that they're still top 25 NET next week.
So all these years, all the coaches who have said, "There are no moral victories" ... NET says, "You're wrong! Congrats on taking Marquette to overtime! Hang a banner!"
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I just find it humorous how "strong" the big10 is that Wisconsin could be finish the season 15-18 and be ranked in the top 25 Net.
Fair or not, whether its an accurate measurement of a teams quality or not, that's how all of the advanced stats are these days. If they do finish with that record and NET ranking, it would mean that they will lose quite a few more close games/heart-breakers. I'm okay with that.
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Ahh, the classic "I'm going to be the bigger man (we have an alpha here, too!) and not talk about this topic anymore" only to jump at the first chance you get (it's been a while) to bring it up!
You're right though. The true home court advantages like Hawaii would never lose at home by 17 to North Texas or anything! LOL!
And that huge Denver home court advantage would never allow for them to lose to powerhouse Abeline Christian! Or Northern Colorado by 16! Or North Dakota by 21! Or South Dakota!
Good stuff as always Lenny. Denver and Hawaii, tougher places to win than IU as proven by IU losing tonight at home in the Big Ten. Scientifically proven by Northern Colorado and North Texas.
LOL!
??? Pomeroy (and other non flat earthers) never claimed it was harder to win a game at Hawaii than it is to win a game at Indiana. Everyone (except evidently you) knows that the better the opponent, the tougher it is to beat them at there place. The FACT is that Hawaii (and 19 others) statistically have a wider margin of improvement at home vs road or neutral than Indiana.
If you were really claiming that Assembly Hall is literally the 3rd toughest place to win a game when Indiana is the 15th, 50th or (think back a few years) 200th best team I don't know what to say other than that is crazy. The truth? When Indiana is one of the top teams in the country they are very hard to beat at home. Substitute any other name for Indiana and the same holds true. And when they stink or are "meh" it's about as hard to win there as it is at most places where the team is bad or average.
You stated that Assembly Hall was (today, in 2019) one of the 3 toughest places to play. Based on what? Do they have a top three record there over the past 5, 10, 15 or 20 year periods? No. Does Vegas adjust the line up for IU at home more than for all but 2 other teams? No. So what were the facts you based your statement on? The same "facts" that made you conclude that a 6 point lead for Virginia was equal to a 20 point lead for Duke or Kansas. IOW, a false assumption. When I make a false assumption or misread the facts I admit it, apologize and move on (see my statements in the Prediction thread). You dig in, move the goalposts, etc. - anything other than admitting (horrors!) that you made an error.
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So all these years, all the coaches who have said, "There are no moral victories" ... NET says, "You're wrong! Congrats on taking Marquette to overtime! Hang a banner!"
Don’t give that guy at Georgia any ideas. They need a few moral victories.
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Duke tough place to play, they lost to Cuse today at home. College hoops
Duke is a tough place to play because Duke is a good team.
When I was at MU and for several years after that the Milwaukee Arena was the toughest place to play in the US. We won 81 straight home games!. When the program became mediocre, so did our home record. And when we became bad, we were bad at home too. #venues no matta
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??? Pomeroy (and other non flat earthers) never claimed it was harder to win a game at Hawaii than it is to win a game at Indiana. Everyone (except evidently you) knows that the better the opponent, the tougher it is to beat them at there place. The FACT is that Hawaii (and 19 others) statistically have a wider margin of improvement at home vs road or neutral than Indiana.
If you were really claiming that Assembly Hall is literally the 3rd toughest place to win a game when Indiana is the 15th, 50th or (think back a few years) 200th best team I don't know what to say other than that is crazy. The truth? When Indiana is one of the top teams in the country they are very hard to beat at home. Substitute any other name for Indiana and the same holds true. And when they stink or are "meh" it's about as hard to win there as it is at most places where the team is bad or average.
You stated that Assembly Hall was (today, in 2019) one of the 3 toughest places to play. Based on what? Do they have a top three record there over the past 5, 10, 15 or 20 year periods? No. Does Vegas adjust the line up for IU at home more than for all but 2 other teams? No. So what were the facts you based your statement on? The same "facts" that made you conclude that a 6 point lead for Virginia was equal to a 20 point lead for Duke or Kansas. IOW, a false assumption. When I make a false assumption or misread the facts I admit it, apologize and move on (see my statements in the Prediction thread). You dig in, move the goalposts, etc. - anything other than admitting (horrors!) that you made an error.
Yup, never shifted any goalposts lol. That was you big guy. You used win-loss record to "prove" how IU wasn't one of the toughest places in America to play, then when you "scientifically proved" that Hawaii, Denver, and LSU were the 3 toughest places in America to play and their home win-loss record was thrown back at you, suddenly win-loss record as a way to prove (or disprove) where the toughest places to play in America are suddenly went out the window and it became about Vegas line movement. So again, who's shifting the goalposts here?
PS You know what else Vegas moves its line for? MONEY!
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NET hasn't been updated since their loss. That being said, despite their total number of losses, they have yet to lose a game by more than 7 points, and I don't think they'll get punished too much by losing by 4 at the 22nd ranked NET team. Even with a loss Saturday, unless its a blowout, I would guess that they're still top 25 NET next week.
Do we have an extra "No Bad Losses" banner we can send them?
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Yup, never shifted any goalposts lol. That was you big guy. You used win-loss record to "prove" how IU wasn't one of the toughest places in America to play, then when you "scientifically proved" that Hawaii, Denver, and LSU were the 3 toughest places in America to play and their home win-loss record was thrown back at you, suddenly win-loss record as a way to prove (or disprove) where the toughest places to play in America are suddenly went out the window and it became about Vegas line movement. So again, who's shifting the goalposts here?
PS You know what else Vegas moves its line for? MONEY!
So typical, so wrong, so sad.
What were the facts again that led you to your verifiably wrong conclusions on these subjects?
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Fair or not, whether its an accurate measurement of a teams quality or not, that's how all of the advanced stats are these days. If they do finish with that record and NET ranking, it would mean that they will lose quite a few more close games/heart-breakers. I'm okay with that.
So maybe we can have our cake and eat it too here.
Wisconsin can keep losing close games, which will make most of us very happy, but their NET rating will stay OK and will actually help our seeding even if F%cky ends up with a losing record?
I'm lovin' that!
F%cky is toast. Competitive but not good enough this year, Happ-less next season, second fiddle in the state to Marquette for the next decade or more, as it was meant to be!
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So typical, so wrong, so sad.
What were the facts again that led you to your verifiably wrong conclusions on these subjects?
What's typical or wrong? When I said IU was a top 3 toughest place to win did you not site their home win-loss record last year to "disprove" this? Then you got super excited that KenPom's Home Court Advantage rankings SCIENTIFICALLY PROVED that Hawaii, Denver, and LSU were the toughest home courts (LOL!), so what did I do? Oh yeah, I threw back their home win-loss record at you, the EXACT SAME method you used to "disprove" IU was a top 3 toughest place to win in America. And guess what? Suddenly home win-loss record meant absolutely nothing because hey, science proved it was Hawaii, Denver, and LSU! LOL!
So again I'll ask, who's shifting goalposts?
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So maybe we can have our cake and eat it too here.
Wisconsin can keep losing close games, which will make most of us very happy, but their NET rating will stay OK and will actually help our seeding even if F%cky ends up with a losing record?
I'm lovin' that!
F%cky is toast. Competitive but not good enough this year, Happ-less next season, second fiddle in the state to Marquette for the next decade or more, as it was meant to be!
I don't know the exact math behind it (no one does), but if they finish sub .500 with an NET in the top 25, they would also have to have some blowout wins. They play Penn St, Northwestern, and Illinois a combined 5 more times, and all of those would likely have to be 25+ point wins. That would help their efficiency numbers, without actually doing anything for their resume other than avoiding bad losses (PSt, NW, ILL have a combined 1 B14 win which resulted from NW beating ILL).
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Just to add some information to Wade and Lenny's debate.
KenPom does NOT rank Hawaii as the #1 home court advantage. He ranks them as the 244th. The #1 Hawaii ranking from what I can tell comes from a 2014 side project KenPom did where he compared his home court advantage ratings to what how much Vegas lines adjust. Hawaii was #1 in the Vegas model.
KenPom himself does home court advantage rankings where he rates home courts based on few different factors including point differentials, foul differentials, and elevation of the home stadium. He only uses data from the past 60 games to come up with the rankings.
His current top 5 are:
Colorado (makes sense with elevation being a factor)
Iowa State (I've heard that's a tough place to play)
Louisiana Tech (???)
Arkansas (I've been to a game there, it was a ghost town)
Air Force (makes sense with elevation)
KenPom currently ranks Indiana as #90, Denver as #79, and LSU as #46.
And just for fun, Marquette is currently ranked #83, 2nd in the Big East. The top home court advantage in the Big East is the Cintas Center at #53. The worst is DePaul so that at least seems accurate.
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Just to add some information to Wade and Lenny's debate.
KenPom does NOT rank Hawaii as the #1 home court advantage. He ranks them as the 244th. The #1 Hawaii ranking from what I can tell comes from a 2014 side project KenPom did where he compared his home court advantage ratings to what how much Vegas lines adjust. Hawaii was #1 in the Vegas model.
KenPom himself does home court advantage rankings where he rates home courts based on few different factors including point differentials, foul differentials, and elevation of the home stadium. He only uses data from the past 60 games to come up with the rankings.
His current top 5 are:
Colorado (makes sense with elevation being a factor)
Iowa State (I've heard that's a tough place to play)
Louisiana Tech (???)
Arkansas (I've been to a game there, it was a ghost town)
Air Force (makes sense with elevation)
KenPom currently ranks Indiana as #90, Denver as #79, and LSU as #46.
And just for fun, Marquette is currently ranked #83, 2nd in the Big East. The top home court advantage in the Big East is the Cintas Center at #53. The worst is DePaul so that at least seems accurate.
Interesting, TAMU.
Where's Kohl ranked?
As for the Lenny-wades heavyweight fight, I will agree with Lenny that it's always amazing how much better a team's homecourt advantage is when the team is actually good.
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Kohl Hole is ranked 132nd. Look at that, not all KenPom metrics favor Wisconsin!
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Just to add some information to Wade and Lenny's debate.
KenPom does NOT rank Hawaii as the #1 home court advantage. He ranks them as the 244th. The #1 Hawaii ranking from what I can tell comes from a 2014 side project KenPom did where he compared his home court advantage ratings to what how much Vegas lines adjust. Hawaii was #1 in the Vegas model.
KenPom himself does home court advantage rankings where he rates home courts based on few different factors including point differentials, foul differentials, and elevation of the home stadium. He only uses data from the past 60 games to come up with the rankings.
His current top 5 are:
Colorado (makes sense with elevation being a factor)
Iowa State (I've heard that's a tough place to play)
Louisiana Tech (???)
Arkansas (I've been to a game there, it was a ghost town)
Air Force (makes sense with elevation)
KenPom currently ranks Indiana as #90, Denver as #79, and LSU as #46.
And just for fun, Marquette is currently ranked #83, 2nd in the Big East. The top home court advantage in the Big East is the Cintas Center at #53. The worst is DePaul so that at least seems accurate.
Got it, thanks for the further information.
Looks to me like science is all over the place here, but you can't argue with science so I'm wrong.
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And just for fun, Marquette is currently ranked #83, 2nd in the Big East. The top home court advantage in the Big East is the Cintas Center at #53. The worst is DePaul so that at least seems accurate.
Except when it comes to MU (and that includes the women's team). Collectively, I believe we are currently 1-2 in the WinTrust.
Speaking of that, we need to come up with a good nickname for that place. LoseTrust? Win-Truss? Help me out here.
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So maybe we can have our cake and eat it too here.
Wisconsin can keep losing close games, which will make most of us very happy, but their NET rating will stay OK and will actually help our seeding even if F%cky ends up with a losing record?
I'm lovin' that!
F%cky is toast. Competitive but not good enough this year, Happ-less next season, second fiddle in the state to Marquette for the next decade or more, as it was meant to be!
Best case scenario right there
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Except when it comes to MU (and that includes the women's team). Collectively, I believe we are currently 1-2 in the WinTrust.
Speaking of that, we need to come up with a good nickname for that place. LoseTrust? Win-Truss? Help me out here.
I like LoseTrust.
Speaking of, what's the roll call for the @DePaul game? I will be there, assuming I don't have anything that keeps me in the office late.
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Just to add some information to Wade and Lenny's debate.
KenPom does NOT rank Hawaii as the #1 home court advantage. He ranks them as the 244th. The #1 Hawaii ranking from what I can tell comes from a 2014 side project KenPom did where he compared his home court advantage ratings to what how much Vegas lines adjust. Hawaii was #1 in the Vegas model.
KenPom himself does home court advantage rankings where he rates home courts based on few different factors including point differentials, foul differentials, and elevation of the home stadium. He only uses data from the past 60 games to come up with the rankings.
His current top 5 are:
Colorado (makes sense with elevation being a factor)
Iowa State (I've heard that's a tough place to play)
Louisiana Tech (???)
Arkansas (I've been to a game there, it was a ghost town)
Air Force (makes sense with elevation)
KenPom currently ranks Indiana as #90, Denver as #79, and LSU as #46.
And just for fun, Marquette is currently ranked #83, 2nd in the Big East. The top home court advantage in the Big East is the Cintas Center at #53. The worst is DePaul so that at least seems accurate.
Correct, and the Vegas model is for crap since betting lines are meant to get people to bet. Using that as the anchor is strange.
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So maybe we can have our cake and eat it too here.
Wisconsin can keep losing close games, which will make most of us very happy, but their NET rating will stay OK and will actually help our seeding even if F%cky ends up with a losing record?
I'm lovin' that!
F%cky is toast. Competitive but not good enough this year, Happ-less next season, second fiddle in the state to Marquette for the next decade or more, as it was meant to be!
Next decade or more? College basketball fortunes can change much quicker than that. We’ll see. Hope you are right, don’t think you are.
If we have the run they did, we will all be ecstatic.
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Correct, and the Vegas model is for crap since betting lines are meant to get people to bet. Using that as the anchor is strange.
??? No. People want to bet. Vegas sets lines so that they can. People also think they're smarter than the guys who set the lines. They're not.
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If Bucky loses enough games, can they snag a #1 seed in the tournament?
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If we have the run they did, we will all be ecstatic.
Nah ... we'll actually win the title.
F%cky = toast.
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??? No. People want to bet. Vegas sets lines so that they can. People also think they're smarter than the guys who set the lines. They're not.
Well, you're both right/wrong.
Vegas sets lines in an effort to balance as equally as possible the amount of money bet each way. That's all they care about.
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Hillbilly gets run out of the gym. Lost by 21.
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Buffalo comes from behind to beat upset minded Western Michigan.
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Vegas sets lines in an effort to balance as equally as possible the amount of money bet each way. That's all they care about.
Actually you're wrong. Vegas sets the line based on teams' power ratings, value of home court/field, injuries and other quantifiable information. The data they use has zero to do with finding a line they think will produce equal action. If the public think their line is inaccurate they welcome the one sided betting. More often than not the public is wrong.
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Done worrying about teams MU beat a month ago. Who's next?
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Actually you're wrong. Vegas sets the line based on teams' power ratings, value of home court/field, injuries and other quantifiable information. The data they use has zero to do with finding a line they think will produce equal action. If the public think their line is inaccurate they welcome the one sided betting. More often than not the public is wrong.
Sorry, I’m going with Pakuni on this especially after comments the sports gambling establishment have made the last 18 months around nation wide sports gambling. Sure they use analytics like crazy, but the lines are ultimately set to get equal cash against both sides because the house makes their money that way. All you have to do is listen to what the purpose of the line is. No one is doubting the data they use to get their, but they will flat out tell you they build into the spread fan loyalty, etc that move the lines. As an example, Cowboys, Packers fans and others bet more on their teams out of loyalty that push the numbers and has nothing to do if analytically they are going to win or not.
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Actually you're wrong. Vegas sets the line based on teams' power ratings, value of home court/field, injuries and other quantifiable information. The data they use has zero to do with finding a line they think will produce equal action. If the public think their line is inaccurate they welcome the one sided betting. More often than not the public is wrong.
So Vegas knew Markus would not play?
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Hillbilly gets run out of the gym. Lost by 21.
It’s incredibly difficult to get run out of the gym by Virginia.
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It’s incredibly difficult to get run out of the gym by Virginia.
Not too make this a VA thread, but if they can somehow avoid losing @ Duke on Sat (kenpom 2pt dogs) they'd be favored for every game the rest of the way.
Undefeated regular season? Unlikely, but possible.
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Kstate looking great
OU with a couple guys that rival the worst free throw shooters in the country.
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Louisville and Presbyterian also up double digits
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Kstate looking great
OU with a couple guys that rival the worst free throw shooters in the country.
Kstate dominated OU. I feel in a week or so we see them ranked again.
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Wow. Kansas State with back to back road ranked wins. Iowa State & Oklahoma.
I was wondering if they would be a NIT team weeks ago. Lost at Tulsa. Beat George Mason by one.. Huge comeback to just beat WVU. Struggled vs Georgia State. Lost by 20 at home to Texas.
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Wow. Kansas State with back to back road ranked wins. Iowa State & Oklahoma.
I was wondering if they would be a NIT team weeks ago. Lost at Tulsa. Beat George Mason by one.. Huge comeback to just beat WVU. Struggled vs Georgia State. Lost by 20 at home to Texas.
The difference Dean Wade can make...kid is good
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Great wins for K State tough to win on the road. Not to put a damper on it, but I have thought both Iowa state and Oklahoma were not as good as their rankings
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Great wins for K State tough to win on the road. Not to put a damper on it, but I have thought both Iowa state and Oklahoma were not as good as their rankings
Iowa State about to beat Texas Tech in Lubbock(tho they are probably overrated too)
I do agree about OU tho. Solid but not very special.
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Sorry, I’m going with Pakuni on this especially after comments the sports gambling establishment have made the last 18 months around nation wide sports gambling. Sure they use analytics like crazy, but the lines are ultimately set to get equal cash against both sides because the house makes their money that way. All you have to do is listen to what the purpose of the line is. No one is doubting the data they use to get their, but they will flat out tell you they build into the spread fan loyalty, etc that move the lines. As an example, Cowboys, Packers fans and others bet more on their teams out of loyalty that push the numbers and has nothing to do if analytically they are going to win or not.
You're wrong.
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You're wrong.
Nope. In fact I am repeating what the leaders in the industry expressed. Sports gambling is a hot topic the last few years, a ton of work has been done by those that broadcast and deliver sports to the general public.
If you want to call them wrong, that is your choice but is a poor one.
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You're wrong.
“When oddsmakers create betting lines, the goal is simple: To get people to wager on both teams equally. They want just as many bets to be placed on Team A as Team B. Now, we know what you're thinking: Doesn't that mean that they just end up breaking even? No, they don't, and it's because of the "vig" (also known as the "juice") that's attached to each and every bet that a sportsbook takes.”
“Before you can understand why lines move, you need to understand what is going on behind the scenes. Sportsbooks are not charities. They are companies designed to make a lot of money by offering betting action on sports competitions. You probably already knew this. Here's something you might not know: even though the sportsbooks are offering bets to you, they don't like to gamble at all. Their goal is to try to guarantee that they are going to make money on every single bet they offer.
How do they do this? What the sportsbook tries to do is get the exact same amount of money on both sides of a contest. If they get $10 total bet on Team A and $10 total bet on Team B, then no matter who wins, they can use the losing money to pay the winners. If Team A wins, they take the $10 from the Team B losers and pay the Team A winners. If Team B wins, they do the same thing, but in reverse.”
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Nope. In fact I am repeating what the leaders in the industry expressed. Sports gambling is a hot topic the last few years, a ton of work has been done by those that broadcast and deliver sports to the general public.
If you want to call them wrong, that is your choice but is a poor one.
Chicos example immediately is way out of date. It does not work this way anymore.
Sports gambling is an ultra-competitive cutthroat business. Even more so now that they have to compete with online sites.
So the casino's set the lines so close that the House usually covers some of the favorite bet. They have to do it because betting lines are like gas prices.
Ever seen an $80k BMW making a left in heavy traffic to a gas station that is two cents a gallon lower than the one that is an easy right on the other side of the street? On 20 gallons it is a 40 cent savings. We are hard-wired to the point of irrationality go for the lowest price so matter what the cost-benefit says.
Same with a betting line. Make your line 6 points and when the casino down the street goes to 5.5 points and you lose 90% of your business. So they constantly shave the lines closer and closer until the House has money on the line. The days of balancing the book are long gone.
Typically the house bets the favorite. That is why when we have big upsets we also have these stories ...
https://www.cnbc.com/2015/03/20/gamblers-lost-a-lot-of-money-on-those-march-madness-upsets.html
Thursday was a “great day for sports books overall,” said Lou Moretti, managing editor of SportsbookReview.com. But not all of them: “One sportsbook confirmed being down $250,000 going into the night slate of games because of parlay winnings paid on the Georgia State vs. Baylor game.”
Most of the bets were on point spreads, but the University of Alabama at Birmingham vs. Iowa State game stood out for the dollar amounts, Moretti said. Because so many people thought Iowa State was a Final Four contender, they couldn’t see a loss like this coming. Bettors “got crushed on the Iowa State moneyline across the board with total losses over $2 million,” he said.
Nevada sports books lose $10M on Sunday’s NFL games
https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/betting/nevada-sports-books-lose-10m-on-sundays-nfl-games-1519488/
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Incidentally, for the HIPPA nerds ...
Want to know who is employing greasy haired Vinnie hanging around the AL to get the inside story on Markus status for Sunday? The sports books are they will have money on the favorite (MU). So Wojo only has himself to blame if shady characters on walking around or near the AL.
The control freak nature of coaches keeping this info private is a problem. Why do you think the NBA and NFL require this to be public? Because they are nice guys? No, it is to keep Vinnie far away from them.
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“When oddsmakers create betting lines, the goal is simple: To get people to wager on both teams equally. They want just as many bets to be placed on Team A as Team B. Now, we know what you're thinking: Doesn't that mean that they just end up breaking even? No, they don't, and it's because of the "vig" (also known as the "juice") that's attached to each and every bet that a sportsbook takes.”
“Before you can understand why lines move, you need to understand what is going on behind the scenes. Sportsbooks are not charities. They are companies designed to make a lot of money by offering betting action on sports competitions. You probably already knew this. Here's something you might not know: even though the sportsbooks are offering bets to you, they don't like to gamble at all. Their goal is to try to guarantee that they are going to make money on every single bet they offer.
How do they do this? What the sportsbook tries to do is get the exact same amount of money on both sides of a contest. If they get $10 total bet on Team A and $10 total bet on Team B, then no matter who wins, they can use the losing money to pay the winners. If Team A wins, they take the $10 from the Team B losers and pay the Team A winners. If Team B wins, they do the same thing, but in reverse.”
"You're still wrong" and so is whomever you're "quoting". Analytics rule the day, not how many people root for the Cowboys or the Packers. Do the Cowboys and Packers consistently underperform against the line? They would in your scenario. And of course the professional gamblers would then smell easy money and overwhelm the bookies with money bet on the correct side.
Now on season long bets (that are already sucker bets) like odds to win a division or the Super Bowl Vegas will be even more unfair to the "popular" teams - because they can. But on individual games the numbers speak for themselves and Vegas plays it straight. They'll win at least as many games that aren't evenly bet as they'll lose - probably more, because people who are smart do better than those who think they are.
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Chicos example immediately is way out of date. It does not work this way anymore.
Sports gambling is an ultra-competitive cutthroat business. Even more so now that they have to compete with online sites.
So the casino's set the lines so close that the House usually covers some of the favorite bet. They have to do it because betting lines are like gas prices.
Ever seen an $80k BMW making a left in heavy traffic to a gas station that is two cents a gallon lower than the one that is an easy right on the other side of the street? On 20 gallons it is a 40 cent savings. We are hard-wired to the point of irrationality go for the lowest price so matter what the cost-benefit says.
Same with a betting line. Make your line 6 points and when the casino down the street goes to 5.5 points and you lose 90% of your business. So they constantly shave the lines closer and closer until the House has money on the line. The days of balancing the book are long gone.
Typically the house bets the favorite. That is why when we have big upsets we also have these stories ...
https://www.cnbc.com/2015/03/20/gamblers-lost-a-lot-of-money-on-those-march-madness-upsets.html
Thursday was a “great day for sports books overall,” said Lou Moretti, managing editor of SportsbookReview.com. But not all of them: “One sportsbook confirmed being down $250,000 going into the night slate of games because of parlay winnings paid on the Georgia State vs. Baylor game.”
Most of the bets were on point spreads, but the University of Alabama at Birmingham vs. Iowa State game stood out for the dollar amounts, Moretti said. Because so many people thought Iowa State was a Final Four contender, they couldn’t see a loss like this coming. Bettors “got crushed on the Iowa State moneyline across the board with total losses over $2 million,” he said.
Nevada sports books lose $10M on Sunday’s NFL games
https://www.reviewjournal.com/sports/betting/nevada-sports-books-lose-10m-on-sundays-nfl-games-1519488/
You get it. It's gambling. Given the 11-10 vig EVENTUALLY casinos grind bettors down if their numbers are good. And they are. They are not going to substitute bad numbers for good ones HOPING to get equal money on both sides. That would be suicide.
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You get it. It's gambling. Given the 11-10 vig EVENTUALLY casinos grind bettors down if their numbers are good. And they are. They are not going to substitute bad numbers for good ones HOPING to get equal money on both sides. That would be suicide.
Most of the time they win way more than they lose. Then #16 UMBC beats #1 Virginia loses and you can hear the primal scream of anguish coming from Vegas.
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Great wins for K State tough to win on the road. Not to put a damper on it, but I have thought both Iowa state and Oklahoma were not as good as their rankings
Iowa state just won at texas tech
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Actually you're wrong. Vegas sets the line based on teams' power ratings, value of home court/field, injuries and other quantifiable information. The data they use has zero to do with finding a line they think will produce equal action. If the public think their line is inaccurate they welcome the one sided betting. More often than not the public is wrong.
I'm not going to argue on and on about this or play Heisy Copypasta, but this just isn't true. The house fears one-sided betting because it exposes them to big losses, and if the house didn't care about equal action, it wouldn't bother adjusting the spread based on the bets they're getting.
Fin.
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Iowa state just won at texas tech
Speaking of paper tigers....
Good for the Cyclones. Tough to win on the road. Don't think Texas Tech is as good as their record either.
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Chicos example immediately is way out of date. It does not work this way anymore.
Sports gambling is an ultra-competitive cutthroat business. Even more so now that they have to compete with online sites.
Correct, it is cutthroat, and of course analytics is massively in play and used now more than ever. In face I said that. However, that doesn’t change the end state of what the book needs to do to make money.
Sport Radar, arguably THE most important player in sports gambling in Europe and soon to be in North America. Analytics out the wazoo. But the book has to make money, and the only way to do that is to get the betters to out money on both sides to avoid them losing their ass. Of course there are examples when they fail, which is why it is so important that they try to get a line that moves th public equally.
My comments are not out of date, in fact they are less then a week old from some of the most important players in the industry. A lot of people and companies trying to crack this code from Mark Cuban to Google to Amazon to every sports distributor and league you can imagine.
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Great wins for K State tough to win on the road.
With Dean back and getting healthier by the day, K-State could have a very nice second half of the season and could end up being a very nice win for us -- which of course it was. Not at all "lucky"!
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Incidentally, for the HIPPA nerds ...
Want to know who is employing greasy haired Vinnie hanging around the AL to get the inside story on Markus status for Sunday? The sports books are they will have money on the favorite (MU). So Wojo only has himself to blame if shady characters on walking around or near the AL.
The control freak nature of coaches keeping this info private is a problem. Why do you think the NBA and NFL require this to be public? Because they are nice guys? No, it is to keep Vinnie far away from them.
BTW, most "HIPPA nerds" know that it's actually *HIPAA*.
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Incidentally, for the HIPPA nerds ...
Want to know who is employing greasy haired Vinnie hanging around the AL to get the inside story on Markus status for Sunday? The sports books are they will have money on the favorite (MU). So Wojo only has himself to blame if shady characters on walking around or near the AL.
The control freak nature of coaches keeping this info private is a problem. Why do you think the NBA and NFL require this to be public? Because they are nice guys? No, it is to keep Vinnie far away from them.
Right now, because MU has not disclosed Markus's status for Sunday, the Providence coaching staff is forced to prepare two separate game plans for their defense. MU gains absolutely nothing by announcing his status early.
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Since this has turned into a gambling thread, I've got a question as someone who has never bet on sports (outside of March Madness pools). How much do people bet on a random Sunday morning Beast men's college basketball game (not your personal bets, but more of a total number)? I could see someone trying to grease some palms, to get injury information for the Final Four, or Super Bowl, or something, but is there really that much action on a MU, Providence game?
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I'm confused, is Vegas a former or future opponent of MU? I can't seem to find them on my schedule.
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Since this has turned into a gambling thread, I've got a question as someone who has never bet on sports (outside of March Madness pools). How much do people bet on a random Sunday morning Beast men's college basketball game (not your personal bets, but more of a total number)? I could see someone trying to grease some palms, to get injury information for the Final Four, or Super Bowl, or something, but is there really that much action on a MU, Providence game?
The betting service I go through, minimum bet is $10.
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KSU back up to 37 on the NET.........still a chance that they could sneak into quad 1 territory
https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings
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I'm not going to argue on and on about this or play Heisy Copypasta, but this just isn't true. The house fears one-sided betting because it exposes them to big losses, and if the house didn't care about equal action, it wouldn't bother adjusting the spread based on the bets they're getting.
Fin.
I won't argue on and on either. You're a smart guy who usually know what he's talking about but you're just flat wrong here. Every week in the NFL there are games that are wagered lopsidedly because the public PERCEIVES the line is "incorrect". But Vegas has enough data that they're confident the line is correct and that their line has made the game a "coin flip". Half of the time the public will be right and Vegas will lose. The other half of the time the public will be wrong and Vegas will win. And because of the vig Vegas wins much more in the latter's case than it loses in the former. (10 million bet on team A, 5 million on team B. Team A wins, Vegas loses 5 million. Team B wins Vegas wins 6 million). Believe me Vegas is much more concerned with offering an accurate line than they are putting out an inaccurate one in HOPES that the action ends up even. Doing that is how you risk going broke.
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Correct, it is cutthroat, and of course analytics is massively in play and used now more than ever. In face I said that. However, that doesn’t change the end state of what the book needs to do to make money.
Sport Radar, arguably THE most important player in sports gambling in Europe and soon to be in North America. Analytics out the wazoo. But the book has to make money, and the only way to do that is to get the betters to out money on both sides to avoid them losing their ass. Of course there are examples when they fail, which is why it is so important that they try to get a line that moves th public equally.
My comments are not out of date, in fact they are less then a week old from some of the most important players in the industry. A lot of people and companies trying to crack this code from Mark Cuban to Google to Amazon to every sports distributor and league you can imagine.
The only thing the book needs to do to make money is make good lines (making the game an actual coin flip) and charge $11 to win $10. Of course they eliminate ALL risk if the handle is exactly even so that would be their preference. Because that's impossible, they're very comfortable "gambling" against the public's perceptions vs. their facts.
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The line is not necessarily intended to be accurate. It is intended to balance the betting. For example, if Wisconsin is playing Northwestern in football, I would expect that there are more badger fans betting on Wisconsin than there are Northwestern fans betting on Northwestern. Vegas may think it is a 7 point game in the badgers favor, but might increase the line to 8 to balance the betting field. The opening line changes, if the betting comes in unbalanced.
Some lines are a pure crapshoot, especially in basketball. A number 1 seed might be a 35 point favor over a 16 seed. There may be no doubt in your mind that number 1 seed is 35 points better, but how do you know when the number 1 seed's coach is going to empty the bench. The coach is not going to leave his starters in to cover the line.
When I was in Vegas last year during the conference tournaments the guy in front of me made at least three money line 3 game parley bets. He was betting $700 on the heavy favorites such as Kentucky, Kansas and Duke or Kentucky, North Carolina, Villanova, etc. Being money line bets those teams only had to win, but the payoff would of been very low. Maybe $700 to get paid $800. He of won all of those bets as the heavy favorites won their games. However, I was wondering how he did the next week when Virginia became the first 1 seed to lose to a 16 seed. He could have had Virginia in more than one $700 parley. All of a sudden easy money could of turned into a disaster.
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Notre dame alumni notoriously put big money on bad teams all the time. At 11-6 this year I really miss having them on the schedule. Even if a win wouldn't help us in the standings, I could make money at the sports bet and watch Brey pop a blood vessel...
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KSU back up to 37 on the NET.........still a chance that they could sneak into quad 1 territory
https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketball-men/d1/ncaa-mens-basketball-net-rankings
It is nice that most of our opponents are not in any immediate danger of falling to the lower quadrant. Our 4 games that aren't Q1 or Q4 are all much closer to jumping up then they are to falling back. And all our Q1s are pretty solid as well...minus F*cky
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The only thing the book needs to do to make money is make good lines (making the game an actual coin flip) and charge $11 to win $10. Of course they eliminate ALL risk if the handle is exactly even so that would be their preference. Because that's impossible, they're very comfortable "gambling" against the public's perceptions vs. their facts.
Why do you think the line moves if all the casino cares about is making good lines? It moves because they are getting lopsided money on one side so they move the line to get action on the other.
If your theory was correct lines wouldn't move.....they would just be happy as a clam with tons of money coming in on one side or the other...........they aren't.
They don't want to gamble......they want to make transaction fees.......
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Why do you think the line moves if all the casino cares about is making good lines? It moves because they are getting lopsided money on one side so they move the line to get action on the other.
If your theory was correct lines wouldn't move.....they would just be happy as a clam with tons of money coming in on one side or the other...........they aren't.
They don't want to gamble......they want to make transaction fees.......
Lines move for all sorts of reasons. Plenty of instances for example of RLM where 66% of the money is on one side and 33% of the money is on the other, but the 33% comes from expert bettors so the line moves backwards to entice more money on the 66% side. Most of the time, yes they are trying to earn money with transaction fees but more often than you think they take a side on the game.
If you have proven bettors who win 60%+ of their bets over a long period of time, of course you are going to side with those bettors because it gets you more money in the long run.
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The only thing the book needs to do to make money is make good lines (making the game an actual coin flip) and charge $11 to win $10. Of course they eliminate ALL risk if the handle is exactly even so that would be their preference. Because that's impossible, they're very comfortable "gambling" against the public's perceptions vs. their facts.
So when lines move did the analytics change? Did they get new information about one of the teams? I was always told it was because too many bets were coming in on one side. I don't gamble so I honestly don't know.
Are you just saying that Vegas makes their initial lines based on analytics and then moves them based on the money?
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Why do you think the line moves if all the casino cares about is making good lines? It moves because they are getting lopsided money on one side so they move the line to get action on the other.
If your theory was correct lines wouldn't move.....they would just be happy as a clam with tons of money coming in on one side or the other...........they aren't.
They don't want to gamble......they want to make transaction fees.......
Couldn’t be further from the truth, sports books take a side far more than you think
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Lines move for all sorts of reasons. Plenty of instances for example of RLM where 66% of the money is on one side and 33% of the money is on the other, but the 33% comes from expert bettors so the line moves backwards to entice more money on the 66% side. Most of the time, yes they are trying to earn money with transaction fees but more often than you think they take a side on the game.
If you have proven bettors who win 60%+ of their bets over a long period of time, of course you are going to side with those bettors because it gets you more money in the long run.
Remember, they're numerous ways to bet. Sportsbooks are forced to move to the lowest point spread because the internet makes it easy to find and get the tightest spread. When sportsbooks you are forced to the tightest spread, they often have an unbalanced bet putting a lot of the Vig at risk.
Notice that the 11 10 vig never changes. That is what they use to cover their unbalanced books.
Welcome to 2019
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Right now, because MU has not disclosed Markus's status for Sunday, the Providence coaching staff is forced to prepare two separate game plans for their defense. MU gains absolutely nothing by announcing his status early.
Providence knows.
They have a booster that paid greasy haired Vinnie to tell them Markus status. Boosters do it so the program stays clean.
And don't fool yourself. MU has similar boosters.
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Remember, they're numerous ways to bet. Sportsbooks are forced to move to the lowest point spread because the internet makes it easy to find and get the tightest spread.
OK, this is the second time you've made this argument, and it doesn't make a ton of sense.
Yes, if the spread narrows at one particular book, they're going to draw more action from bettors who want to bet the favorite.
But, conversely, it's going to push away bettors who want the points, sending them to books with the larger spread.
Your theory only works if the book's primary goal is to attract action on the favorite. And even then, it makes no sense, because rarely is it beneficial to reduce the number of points a favorite has to give.
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So when lines move did the analytics change? Did they get new information about one of the teams? I was always told it was because too many bets were coming in on one side. I don't gamble so I honestly don't know.
Are you just saying that Vegas makes their initial lines based on analytics and then moves them based on the money?
First of all, lines on the "big stuff" (NFL games) don't change much. As eagle pointed out total action isn't what moves them when they do move, it's action from pros that casino respect. But even then, barring big news (QB hurt) they don't move much. The big fear for Vegas isn't the public beating them picking winners - it's getting "middled". Say they opened a game with Dallas a 9 point favorite and moved to 10.5 because the yahoo Cowboy fans bet their team. And then the "pros" see value (true fair value being 9) getting 10.5 and pound the Cowboy's opponent. Cowboys win by 10. Vegas loses BOTH sides.
Look at it this way. The odds of a balanced coin landing heads or tails is even money but the public loves heads. Do you make heads a 7-5 favorites to try and even out the action? Professional gamblers would eventually make that a suicidal proposition.
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UTEP lost last night.
Oh wait, am I in the wrong thread again...? :-\
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UTEP lost last night.
Oh wait, am I in the wrong thread again...? :-\
But what was the line movement before the game?
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But what was the line movement before the game?
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/92b2aa0ae2b8f33c6da27dd05d99b364/tenor.gif?itemid=9763062)
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UTEP lost last night.
Oh wait, am I in the wrong thread again...? :-\
They weren’t able to take a winning shot in .5 like last week.....which is humanely impossible as so rated by the scientists at Scoop?
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They weren’t able to take a winning shot in .5 like last week.....which is humanely impossible as so rated by the scientists at Scoop?
But it is viciously possible thanks to Savage Sam.
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They weren’t able to take a winning shot in .5 like last week.....which is humanely impossible as so rated by the scientists at Scoop?
Said nobody here ever.
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You're wrong.
I hate this kind of post on Scoop. Want to disagree? Fine. But "you're wrong" is not discussion. It's barely above "I know you are but what am I?" Offer something, anything, worth considering.
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I hate this kind of post on Scoop. Want to disagree? Fine. But "you're wrong" is not discussion. It's barely above "I know you are but what am I?" Offer something, anything, worth considering.
If you read this thread you know that I posted several time facts about how and why Vegas does their business and why Chico was incorrect on this matter. Sometimes his obstinance on this (and other) matters where he is factually/provably wrong frustrates.
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If you read this thread you know that I posted several time facts about how and why Vegas does their business and why Chico was incorrect on this matter. Sometimes his obstinance on this (and other) matters where he is factually/provably wrong frustrates.
I'm not wrong on it, unless the books are incorrectly talking about their business to the leagues, and entertainment conglomerates. They aren't, by the way. I provided you with information, as well. To each their own. The purpose of the line is to draw betting on both sides, repeated AGAIN just in the last two weeks by those setting the line for tomorrow's fight and Sunday's NFL games. They need to make money, and adjusting risk is how they do it. No one has said they aren't using data, of course they are. They are using that data to make even better choices on what the lines will be, but the end result is to preserve as much of the VIG as they can for themselves. If the betting is too one sided, they are exposed and it is how they lose. I don't understand how you don't recognize that yes, to your point, they use the data to determine who they think is going to win, but the ultimate line is set to balance the betting.
A classic example was given to us by one of their experts. If their data says the Packers are going to win by 3 points, they would adjust the line even further because so many Packer fans pour money onto the team by betting with their hearts. They mentioned probably 10 teams just off the cuff they have to do this every time, and if they don't it would put too much money on one side even though the data tells them to set the line at 3 points.
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Said nobody here ever.
Actually, with movement people made various claims about what was possible. .3 for tip in, mostly because that is a rule. Then there were other opinions about what was and was not possible.
"There is absolutely no way someone can catch a ball at the top of their jump, come down from that jump to the ground, jump again and release a shot in .8 seconds. It's impossible."
The UTEP player made several moves, the clock may have needed to start earlier, who knows. All I know is humans can do a lot of things that others say is impossible.
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I'm not wrong on it, unless the books are incorrectly talking about their business to the leagues, and entertainment conglomerates. They aren't, by the way. I provided you with information, as well. To each their own. The purpose of the line is to draw betting on both sides, repeated AGAIN just in the last two weeks by those setting the line for tomorrow's fight and Sunday's NFL games. They need to make money, and adjusting risk is how they do it. No one has said they aren't using data, of course they are. They are using that data to make even better choices on what the lines will be, but the end result is to preserve as much of the VIG as they can for themselves. If the betting is too one sided, they are exposed and it is how they lose. I don't understand how you don't recognize that yes, to your point, they use the data to determine who they think is going to win, but the ultimate line is set to balance the betting.
A classic example was given to us by one of their experts. If their data says the Packers are going to win by 3 points, they would adjust the line even further because so many Packer fans pour money onto the team by betting with their hearts. They mentioned probably 10 teams just off the cuff they have to do this every time, and if they don't it would put too much money on one side even though the data tells them to set the line at 3 points.
I've watched documentaries where they talk with the guys that set the lines at various casinos who have said the opposite of this. If there are 10 teams they have to take points from those 10 teams would fail to cover at a higher percentage each and every year. If you look at the data how teams cover...it doesnt paint that picture. If it did...it would be the easiest $ in the world. They can set a line for 3pts...watch it move because a bunch of fans bet and watch it come back as the real betters take advantage. There are betters that purposely bet to move the line on a low profile game and then bet against their initial bet as it's a better deal then buying points.
In additon...they said they will hold a line at times if they believe it's a good bet for them. Taking the 5%, or whatever it is, is not the only way they choose to make $...legally it has to be a game of luck so it's an interesting predicament.
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Actually,
My son used to have a know-it-all friend who began every other sentence with, "Actually ... "
It was his way of letting the rest of the world know that he knew more than they did on pretty much every subject.
He was only 12, though, so at least he had an excuse.
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At first I was rather annoyed that this was no longer a convenient place to see how past opponents were doing... but now I find myself impressed with some posters ability to take pretty much any comment on topic and spin it to some wild off topic conversation.
I really thought my UTEP update was a solid post to put things on track.
Scoop amazes again! I'm not even mad.
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A classic example was given to us by one of their experts. If their data says the Packers are going to win by 3 points, they would adjust the line even further because so many Packer fans pour money onto the team by betting with their hearts. They mentioned probably 10 teams just off the cuff they have to do this every time, and if they don't it would put too much money on one side even though the data tells them to set the line at 3 points.
So you think that when their numbers/data say Packers -3 makes the game a coin flip they're going to put the game out at Packers -6 because they fear bets from Packer fans. Now the game is no longer a true coin flip. Instead of both teams being 50/50 to cover, the team who deserves to be +3 but is now +6 is a big (maybe 57-43%) favorite. Every professional gambler (they use the same data as Vegas to handicap games) would bet heavily on them because of that edge - their bets would dwarf "Packer fans" bets and instead of having a lopsided bet on a 50/50 proposition getting 11/10 odds, Vegas would be stuck with a 43% chance to win a bet getting 11/10 odds. Do the former enough times and you become billionaires. Do the latter enough and you go broke.
I don't want to waste any more of the boards time on this. Anyone who wants to discuss this can PM me. I don't know if you can't grasp these rather rudimentary concepts or are just stubborn but I don't care anymore.
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If you read this thread you know that I posted several time facts about how and why Vegas does their business and why Chico was incorrect on this matter. Sometimes his obstinance on this (and other) matters where he is factually/provably wrong frustrates.
Sorry, must have missed your earlier post.
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I've watched documentaries where they talk with the guys that set the lines at various casinos who have said the opposite of this. If there are 10 teams they have to take points from those 10 teams would fail to cover at a higher percentage each and every year. If you look at the data how teams cover...it doesnt paint that picture. If it did...it would be the easiest $ in the world. They can set a line for 3pts...watch it move because a bunch of fans bet and watch it come back as the real betters take advantage. There are betters that purposely bet to move the line on a low profile game and then bet against their initial bet as it's a better deal then buying points.
In additon...they said they will hold a line at times if they believe it's a good bet for them. Taking the 5%, or whatever it is, is not the only way they choose to make $...legally it has to be a game of luck so it's an interesting predicament.
Avid
I don’t know how to say this differently. Literally, going on right now, in the sports industry are detailed discussions with the major betting houses, the leagues, integrity data companies (I.e. Sport Radar, etc) distributors of sports content....this is no surprise, very public. As a part of those discussions have been a number of 101 presentations on how best ting is done, how data is used, what the data is used for (you can imagine the data privacy issues question for a company like Apple, Amazon, AT&T, Google, etc are enormous), along with latency questions since 82% of all bets in UK occur after the game starts....they are prop bets and where much of the money is made.
That being said, for wager line establishment and how those are set, it could it have been more iron clad crystal clear in writing how and why lines are set. To get equal money on both sides as best as they can possibly do to minimize the risk to them and get the juice / or Vig, which is about 6 to 8%. A lot of things go into the analysis of that line, more data than ever before, but the purpose remains the same....create a line which attempts to draw equal money on both sides as that is how the books make the most money with the least amount of risk.
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Avid
I don’t know how to say this differently. Literally, going on right now, in the sports industry are detailed discussions with the major betting houses, the leagues, integrity data companies (I.e. Sport Radar, etc) distributors of sports content....this is no surprise, very public. As a part of those discussions have been a number of 101 presentations on how best ting is done, how data is used, what the data is used for (you can imagine the data privacy issues question for a company like Apple, Amazon, AT&T, Google, etc are enormous), along with latency questions since 82% of all bets in UK occur after the game starts....they are prop bets and where much of the money is made.
That being said, for wager line establishment and how those are set, it could it have been more iron clad crystal clear in writing how and why lines are set. To get equal money on both sides as best as they can possibly do to minimize the risk to them and get the juice / or Vig, which is about 6 to 8%. A lot of things go into the analysis of that line, more data than ever before, but the purpose remains the same....create a line which attempts to draw equal money on both sides as that is how the books make the most money with the least amount of risk.
How about you guys just exchange phone numbers and figure it out yourselves instead of on an unrelated thread?
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Wisconsin looking pretty good, could give Michigan their first loss of the year.
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Wisconsin looking pretty good, could give Michigan their first loss of the year.
A little home cooking, or as I call it the Madison Special, to help them on their cause.
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A little home cooking, or as I call it the Madison Special, to help them on their cause.
There's no 'home cooking'. Wisconsin is playing like their season depends on it. And Michigan simply isn't.
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A little home cooking, or as I call it the Madison Special, to help them on their cause.
Michigan sloppy. 15 turnovers has been the key. Uw-madison extension with only 9. UM only shooting 25% from 3, and 42% for the game....not very good efficiency.
I don't see any home cooking.
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so does our win over UW become big again?
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Huge W four Bucky, hey?
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so does our win over UW become big again?
Bucky sucks.
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so does our win over UW become big again?
It looks better. I'm guessing MU82's prediction that they are toast becomes a little less crispy, too. Top high school player in the state at the game, too. Some people think with their heart, not their brains, aye?
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Good. Nothing more arrogant and entitled than a self righteous Michigan fan. Time for them to lose.
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Sweet rush.
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Congrats to the badgers on their super bowl win. Crowd storm and all...
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fire beilein, eyn'a?
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Rush the court? Are you serious?
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this is such a pathetic rush.
Also did we rush when we took down UConn in our Big East premier?
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It looks better. I'm guessing MU82's prediction that they are toast becomes a little less crispy, too. Top high school player in the state at the game, too. Some people think with their heart, not their brains, aye?
And some think with other organs....
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Rush the court? Are you serious?
Why not, they are kids. Who cares. Michigan was essentially the #1 team in waiting.....and #2 currently.
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It looks better. I'm guessing MU82's prediction that they are toast becomes a little less crispy, too. Top high school player in the state at the game, too. Some people think with their heart, not their brains, aye?
journ 101 if ya don't like or dislike something too much, defer
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Why not, they are kids. Who cares. Michigan was essentially the #1 team in waiting.....and #2 currently.
Because thats for teams that haven't been there before. Wisconsin was 4 mins away from a National Championship 3 years ago. It's embarrassing imo.
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Anyways the way the net rankings love the Badgers this should sky rocket them to a 2 seed.
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Nice win by Wisky. Hope they enjoy, because next year they might be cellar dwellers without that fella Happ. He had 26, 11 bounds, 7 assists and 2 steals.
They beat the possible #1 in country at the time and had won 31 of last 32, rush the court, party all night, MU would do the same. Enjoy it now.
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Gard loosened up that tie and was cheesing. Think he was feeling some pressure?
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Congrats to the badgers on their super bowl win. Crowd storm and all...
Bravo!
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Why not, they are kids. Who cares. Michigan was essentially the #1 team in waiting.....and #2 currently.
I don't have a problem with fans of a big underdog rushing the court. Like you said, they're kids.
But the fact that they were a big underdog just four+ years after back to back Final Fours says a lot about how their fans view the state of the program....
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I'm lost as a 2 point underdog and a program that went to back to back Final Fours, that you storm the court.
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this is such a pathetic rush.
Also did we rush when we took down UConn in our Big East premier?
We were beating UCONN that game by as many as 24 points, ultimately won by 15. Most court rushes I see are when the game is close and you knock off a top team as the energy builds. Crean's guys destroyed UCONN that game. With 16 minutes left in the game we were up double digits and never got below that...the energy for a court rush probably subsided. It was an ass whooping, up 24 with under 3 minutes to play. The bench let them shave off 9 points at the end.
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Let kids be kids. Plus, it is too damn cold to want to leave.
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journ 101 if ya don't like or dislike something too much, defer
Journalism the last 24 hours has taken another massive hit, not sure what journ 101 even is anymore because journalists certainly aren't practicing it.
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Because thats for teams that haven't been there before. Wisconsin was 4 mins away from a National Championship 3 years ago. It's embarrassing imo.
Which means half those kids that did it were 14 years old when that happened and don't care, this is their time. I agree with the act like you've been there before from players and the program / arena, but when you're talking about students (likely drunk), I give a lot of leeway to that group.
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Journalism the last 24 hours has taken another massive hit, not sure what journ 101 even is anymore because journalists certainly aren't practicing it.
Good journalists still check sources and report the facts, and there still are plenty of them. But bad journalists certainly exist, and since generalizations are easier than looking case by case, some people make overly broad statements like "journalists certainly aren't practicing it."
Just my $0.02.
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I don't have a problem with fans of a big underdog rushing the court. Like you said, they're kids.
But the fact that they were a big underdog just four+ years after back to back Final Fours says a lot about how their fans view the state of the program....
4+ years ago accomplishment means you can't be a 3 point underdog? Look at how many Final Four teams the last 20 years haven't even made it back to the NCAA tournament the next year and lost plenty. 4+ years ago has nothing to do with this year's team.
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Good journalists still check sources and report the facts, and there still are plenty of them. But bad journalists certainly exist, and since generalizations are easier than looking case by case, some people make overly broad statements like "journalists certainly aren't practicing it."
Just my $0.02.
Yes, and good news divisions don't run 24 hours of bad journalists without facts because they want an outcome. Journalism has really fallen on bad times with clickbait leading the charge, and now actually being used by so called "real journalists". Truly disturbing.
What are the odds that the cases of "bad journalism" almost always go against one person. Hmm. It's almost as if they are reporting with their desires with no facts at all. I'm trying to remember when the bad journalism broke in a positive way. The odds of that are truly mysterious.
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4+ years ago accomplishment means you can't be a 3 point underdog? Look at how many Final Four teams the last 20 years haven't even made it back to the NCAA tournament the next year and lost plenty. 4+ years ago has nothing to do with this year's team.
I don't think 3-points qualifies as a "big underdog." But the fans certainly acted as though they were....
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It looks better. I'm guessing MU82's prediction that they are toast becomes a little less crispy, too. Top high school player in the state at the game, too. Some people think with their heart, not their brains, aye?
The energy in that crowd was poor. Pathetic court rush. I'd be a little under enthused as a visiting player.
Contrast that with the atmosphere at Fiserv against Kansas St., Wisconsin, Buffalo.
And for the record, I'm calling the court rush pathetic, because it was low energy and seemed like an after thought, oh yeah...we should wander out onto the court...cause we won.
Have no problem with kids rushing the court in a big win.
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The energy in that crowd was poor. Pathetic court rush. I'd be a little under enthused as a visiting player.
Contrast that with the atmosphere at Fiserv against Kansas St., Wisconsin, Buffalo.
Kohl Center seemed liked it didn't get going until 6 minutes left. Low scoring game might have something to do with that.
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The energy in that crowd was poor. Pathetic court rush. I'd be a little under enthused as a visiting player.
Contrast that with the atmosphere at Fiserv against Kansas St., Wisconsin, Buffalo.
And for the record, I'm calling the court rush pathetic, because it was low energy and seemed like an after thought, oh yeah...we should wander out onto the court...cause we won.
Have no problem with kids rushing the court in a big win.
I like our energy a lot better this year. Winning consistently helps.
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Gard bought himself another two years.
Does that mean we become the second best team in the nation?
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Gard bought himself another two years.
Does that mean we become the second best team in the nation?
If Gard really bought himself two years it might.
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Watched it live, team celebrated at center Court and it was all media around them at first. Then the first couple kids jogged out there, then the second wave trotted.
I really don't think the students were looking to rush. By the time they cut to the studio, barely 1/3rd of the court was covered.
Just kinda awkward.
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I am not sure the atmosphere at that building was something that will get recruits all that excited. Saw most of the game and it was slow, boring and quiet. Nice win for Madison.
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Nice win by Wisky. Hope they enjoy, because next year they might be cellar dwellers without that fella Happ. He had 26, 11 bounds, 7 assists and 2 steals.
They beat the possible #1 in country at the time and had won 31 of last 32, rush the court, party all night, MU would do the same. Enjoy it now.
As we know, when a team loses their star player, the team becomes lost and massively underperforms.
Oh wait...
Happ is a great college player and will be difficult to replace, but Reuvers has a decent inside/outside game and King and Trice are solid guys. Not saying that they are S16 level next year by any stretch, but to write them off because they are losing one guy is a tad bit premature.
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4+ years ago accomplishment means you can't be a 3 point underdog? Look at how many Final Four teams the last 20 years haven't even made it back to the NCAA tournament the next year and lost plenty. 4+ years ago has nothing to do with this year's team.
Only takes 1 year to go from Final Four to out of the NCAA Tournament, hey? The Tanned one and you have probably talked about that many times over dinner.
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As we know, when a team loses their star player, the team becomes lost and massively underperforms.
Oh wait...
Happ is a great college player and will be difficult to replace, but Reuvers has a decent inside/outside game and King and Trice are solid guys. Not saying that they are S16 level next year by any stretch, but to write them off because they are losing one guy is a tad bit premature.
Trice and King were non factors. Reuvers was fine. This isn't a Bo Ryan team where one of those guys makes a big leap as they become the man. The talent in Madison is thin
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As we know, when a team loses their star player, the team becomes lost and massively underperforms.
Oh wait...
Happ is a great college player and will be difficult to replace, but Reuvers has a decent inside/outside game and King and Trice are solid guys. Not saying that they are S16 level next year by any stretch, but to write them off because they are losing one guy is a tad bit premature.
Trice has been terrible every game I watch since we played them.
Anytime he tries to create for himself is a laughable shot. Usually a missed layup.
He’s good catching and shooting out of the Happ double.
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Only takes 1 year to go from Final Four to out of the NCAA Tournament, hey? The Tanned one and you have probably talked about that many times over dinner.
We have not talked about that, though I did send my condolences to him and his family yesterday at the loss of his mother.
And yes, it only takes one year and there are a number of examples of it over the years. Loyola of Chicago could be the latest school to join Louisville (twice, not even counting vacancies), Marquette, NC State, Kansas, UCONN, Butler, George Mason, etc, etc
Just as there are teams, very rarely, picked to win a major conference that can't even qualify for the NIT. That doesn't happen very much as the predictions are done in that year, unless a major injury happens.
That's why they play the games, eh?
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Trice and King were non factors. Reuvers was fine. This isn't a Bo Ryan team where one of those guys makes a big leap as they become the man. The talent in Madison is thin
Trice struggling, King second on team in rebounds today and a clutch 3 pointer.
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Because thats for teams that haven't been there before. Wisconsin was 4 mins away from a National Championship 3 years ago. It's embarrassing imo.
So was our court rush against Villanova embarrassing? Personally, I loved it
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Down goes Kansas to 9-9 West Virginia. Mountaineers storm the court. LaGerald Vick with about the worst shot attempt to try and win the game that could be possible.
Doesn't help us from a computer numbers perspective....but it gets us a little closer to passing them in the rankings.
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I've watched documentaries where they talk with the guys that set the lines at various casinos who have said the opposite of this. If there are 10 teams they have to take points from those 10 teams would fail to cover at a higher percentage each and every year. If you look at the data how teams cover...it doesnt paint that picture. If it did...it would be the easiest $ in the world. They can set a line for 3pts...watch it move because a bunch of fans bet and watch it come back as the real betters take advantage. There are betters that purposely bet to move the line on a low profile game and then bet against their initial bet as it's a better deal then buying points.
In additon...they said they will hold a line at times if they believe it's a good bet for them. Taking the 5%, or whatever it is, is not the only way they choose to make $...legally it has to be a game of luck so it's an interesting predicament.
Avid - you are 100% correct.
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We have not talked about that, though I did send my condolences to him and his family yesterday at the loss of his mother.
And yes, it only takes one year and there are a number of examples of it over the years. Loyola of Chicago could be the latest school to join Louisville (twice, not even counting vacancies), Marquette, NC State, Kansas, UCONN, Butler, George Mason, etc, etc
Just as there are teams, very rarely, picked to win a major conference that can't even qualify for the NIT. That doesn't happen very much as the predictions are done in that year, unless a major injury happens.
That's why they play the games, eh?
Hey we're on both the follow up a Final Four by missing the tournament and be picked to win a major conference but don't even make the NIT lists. How many programs get that honour?
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That’s the reason Chico’s posted it.
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Trice has been terrible every game I watch since we played them.
Anytime he tries to create for himself is a laughable shot. Usually a missed layup.
He’s good catching and shooting out of the Happ double.
Which is why I said they were solid, not great. Davisson despite his warts, is a decent guy too. Again, I could see them winning 18-20 games next year and being on the bubble.
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Which is why I said they were solid, not great. Davisson despite his warts, is a decent guy too. Again, I could see them winning 18-20 games next year and being on the bubble.
Without Happ?
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Down goes Kansas to 9-9 West Virginia. Mountaineers storm the court. LaGerald Vick with about the worst shot attempt to try and win the game that could be possible.
Doesn't help us from a computer numbers perspective....but it gets us a little closer to passing them in the rankings.
Assuming a win tomorrow, MU could hopefully sneak past UK or auburn loser.
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Watched it live, team celebrated at center Court and it was all media around them at first. Then the first couple kids jogged out there, then the second wave trotted.
I really don't think the students were looking to rush. By the time they cut to the studio, barely 1/3rd of the court was covered.
Just kinda awkward.
Look they play a slow game and the court rush match it.
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Kansas State sure looks much better with Wade then without him. ......up at half 37-30 vs TCU
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Journalism the last 24 hours has taken another massive hit, not sure what journ 101 even is anymore because journalists certainly aren't practicing it.
What in the last 24 hours are you referencing?
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So was our court rush against Villanova embarrassing? Personally, I loved it
I don't mind it. Unless the NCAA is going to step in and ban them altogether, let the kids have fun.
That said, that was a really half-hearted court storm. Looked like about 20 kids out there.
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Anybody notice Louisville putting a 27 point hurting on GT?
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Kansas State sure looks much better with Wade then without him. ......up at half 37-30 vs TCU
Starting to look like who we thought they were. Decent chance they regain Q1 win status.
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What in the last 24 hours are you referencing?
Political crap
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Hey we're on both the follow up a Final Four by missing the tournament and be picked to win a major conference but don't even make the NIT lists. How many programs get that honour?
I’d wager we would be alone on that one. When’s the last time you saw someone picked to win a conference and miss everything unless an injury happens? The only place it really happens with any repitition is the PAC 12 who is a major conference by definition, but really a joke in reality.
Doesn’t happen often elsewhere. Then pair them with missing after Final Four. Probably just us, but not going to look it up.
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Good journalists still check sources and report the facts, and there still are plenty of them. But bad journalists certainly exist, and since generalizations are easier than looking case by case, some people make overly broad statements like "journalists certainly aren't practicing it."
Just my $0.02.
Yes, but why does BAD journalism seem to lead the way so much. Ok, if good journalism is the norm and there are some bad actors out there as there are in anything, cops, priests, teachers...why does bad journalism seem to get the lead until it’s discredited; some with very devastating effects mind you. It should be filtered out BEFORE it gets out. That’s why I continue to believe there aren’t any professional standards for that “trade” anymore. Bad journalism could lead to putting many people unnecessarily in harms way. Bad info just as bad dentistry can get people hurt. Why not hold them to the same standards??
Caveat 101-there is a difference between journalism and punditry and/or commentary/editorializing
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It looks better. I'm guessing MU82's prediction that they are toast becomes a little less crispy, too. Top high school player in the state at the game, too. Some people think with their heart, not their brains, aye?
Your Badgers are still toast, F%cky fan.
I only saw the last few seconds because I was on my way to Milwaukee, but it was a good win for your guys.
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Your Badgers are still toast, F%cky fan.
I only saw the last few seconds because I was on my way to Milwaukee, but it was a good win for your guys.
Oh that is so cute, similar to your false statement that only a handful of NFL players have guaranteed money....60% do.
At any rate, keep going with it and safe travels back.
K State beat TCU yesterday, they are definitely back on track.
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Our losses definitely not looking great of late.
Indiana is abysmal right now
SJU has been ok at best
Kansas without Azubuike just isn’t Kansas. Hopefully they win this ISU game. But man are they shaky
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Yeah butt, wee only got tree of dem, hey?
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Without Happ?
Yes.
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Our losses definitely not looking great of late.
Indiana is abysmal right now
SJU has been ok at best
Kansas without Azubuike just isn’t Kansas. Hopefully they win this ISU game. But man are they shaky
With just 3 losses at this point of the season that loss isn't going to make much difference. I am cheering for them to lose now because we are going to be battling them for a higher seed for the rest of the season as well as the closest tournament site Des Moines.
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3 total losses all to NCAA Tournament teams.
We’re just fine.
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With just 3 losses at this point of the season that loss isn't going to make much difference. I am cheering for them to lose now because we are going to be battling them for a higher seed for the rest of the season as well as the closest tournament site Des Moines.
Yeah that’s a good point too.
Shame Lawson is such a stud. He went and won that game last night. Or they woulda lost again.
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Yeah that’s a good point too.
Shame Lawson is such a stud. He went and won that game last night. Or they woulda lost again.
Hard hitting stuff here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxrRm_VI5Bs
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Hard hitting stuff here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxrRm_VI5Bs
What was stupid about a guy going for 29 and 15 on 13/17 shooting being the difference maker in a game decided in the final minute?
Or you just being ironic?
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Another big win for Kstate. TT continues to flounder. But huge win for them.
Buffalo on the other hand. Needs to get it going in half two
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Markus Howard scored as many points against KSU as Texas Tech's whole team did tonight.......
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Markus Howard scored as many points against KSU as Texas Tech's whole team did tonight.......
That’s awesome.
Buffalo losing to NIU by 3 w
3:00 left
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That’s awesome.
Buffalo losing to NIU by 3 w
3:00 left
NIU wins by two. Woof.
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NIU wins by two. Woof.
Jaylen Key, son of #MUBB great Damon Key, with 9 points tonight for the winning Huskies.
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IU is a mess right now......suspended their 4th leading scorer and down 14 at Northwestern.
MU and IU have gone in different directions since they whomped us......it's a long season.
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Jaylen Key, son of #MUBB great Damon Key, with 9 points tonight for the winning Huskies.
Brew Town's Levi Bradley having a very nice season for NIU
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Jaylen Key, son of #MUBB great Damon Key, with 9 points tonight for the winning Huskies.
At least that’s cool
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Louisville was only ranked #57 by KenPom when Marquette faced them back in November. But the Cardinals are up to #16 after smoking both #7 North Carolina and Georgia Tech by 20+ on the road.
Marquette's neutral court win over UL could end up being our best win of the season, along with at home over #13 Wisconsin. Villanova may represent our final two regular season games against Top 25 teams -- unless Butler (#42), St. John's (#48) or Creighton (#54) step things up the rest of the way.
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Should we be rooting for Villanova to keep winning? Seems like our best chance to get high quality resume wins in conference, regardless of if we win the regular season. The BE beating itself up after a lackluster Non-Conference performance doesn't help anybody, but it's the reality.
Wouldn't our ceiling improve if it became a 2 man race with Nova and we came out on top? Lot of basketball to be played, but it seems like a team with our talent shouldn't be looking at a 3 seed as the peak.
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IU is a mess right now......suspended their 4th leading scorer and down 14 at Northwestern.
MU and IU have gone in different directions since they whomped us......it's a long season.
I saw many comments on Twitter after our game with them from their fans saying how MU sucked and it was ridiculous we were ahead of them in the rankings. I bet those same people now will be talking about their “signature” win over MU on selection Sunday begging to get in. Funny how that can change.
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I saw many comments on Twitter after our game with them from their fans saying how MU sucked and it was ridiculous we were ahead of them in the rankings. I bet those same people now will be talking about their “signature” win over MU on selection Sunday begging to get in. Funny how that can change.
Yeah, but look at the Flip side, check out our Board after that loss to IU.
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Yeah, but look at the Flip side, check out our Board after that loss to IU.
Yup.
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Mocking other boards for losing their (crap) after a loss..... irony defined.
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Should we be rooting for Villanova to keep winning? Seems like our best chance to get high quality resume wins in conference, regardless of if we win the regular season. The BE beating itself up after a lackluster Non-Conference performance doesn't help anybody, but it's the reality.
Wouldn't our ceiling improve if it became a 2 man race with Nova and we came out on top? Lot of basketball to be played, but it seems like a team with our talent shouldn't be looking at a 3 seed as the peak.
At this point, I don't think it matters much. Our ceiling is probably a 2-seed regardless of what Villanova does. If we win out we might get to the 1-line, but considering at the minimum, one of Duke/Virginia, Michigan/MSU, & Tennessee/Kentucky will be on the top line and Gonzaga is ahead of us and unlikely to lose, a 1-seed seems unattainable.
So if our ceiling is a 2, we'll get there if we keep winning. We will have enough Q1/2 wins regardless if we take care of business. Though to get to a 2, we probably can't lose more than 2-3 more games. Considering the 7 teams listed above & Kansas isn't one of them, I really think 3 is the most likely best case.
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We should root for Villanova to win, except when they are playing MU.
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We should root for Villanova to win, except when they are playing MU.
But if they beat MU, it'll help their resume for when we beat them.
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Mocking other boards for losing their (crap) after a loss..... irony defined.
Scoop also deserves mocking for losing its (crap) after a loss.
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Scoop also deserves mocking for losing its (crap) after a loss.
Scoop loses its collective crap after a win.
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We should root for Villanova to win, except when they are playing MU.
Not me. I want to win the Big East, so I want Villanova to lose. If we win enough us moving up or down a seed line doesn't matter all that much. It's about match-ups are were just as likely or unlikely to get a good matchup as a 3 or 3/4 or 3, etc.
If we win enough ourselves, everything will take care of itself.
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Scoop loses its collective crap after a win.
Winner.
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We should root for Villanova to win, except when they are playing MU.
Not sure I agree here. What is your logic?
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Not sure I agree here. What is your logic?
I also disagree, but since I'll be going to NY n March and staying well outside the city I sure wouldn't mind being the 2 seed. Give me that night game instead of 11 AM and a super early morning filled with public transportation.
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I also disagree, but since I'll be going to NY n March and staying well outside the city I sure wouldn't mind being the 2 seed. Give me that night game instead of 11 AM and a super early morning filled with public transportation.
Yah, I mean Marquette needs Nova to lose a few games for the 1 seed. But I also really want to see the Big East get as many bids as possible. That means Hall, SJU, Butler, Creighton and Providence getting some big wins. At this point, PC is even iffy. After that, pretty much root for Depaul, Georgetown and to a slightly lesser extent Xavier to lose every game they play. Depaul already has enough wins.
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Not sure I agree here. What is your logic?
We need Nova to win enough to show some conference strength but lose more than us, and especially lose TO us. In some folk’s minds we are already a 4 bid conference. Put MU/Nova at the top and allow the 4-way tie for 3rd place turn into some extra bids.
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We need Nova to win enough to show some conference strength but lose more than us, and especially lose TO us. In some folk’s minds we are already a 4 bid conference. Put MU/Nova at the top and allow the 4-way tie for 3rd place turn into some extra bids.
Does Villanova beating up on the rest of the conference really show conference strength?
Or does it show that the Big East is so down this year that a team which lost early season games to Furman and Penn can run roughshod over it?
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We need Nova to win enough to show some conference strength but lose more than us, and especially lose TO us. In some folk’s minds we are already a 4 bid conference. Put MU/Nova at the top and allow the 4-way tie for 3rd place turn into some extra bids.
I think Nova going 12-6 shows more conference strength than them going 15-1 or 16-2.
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UMBC up 12 right now at Vermont.
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Louisville knocks off #21 NC State. Gotta admit, I didn't think Louisiville would be good this season. Mack has really done wonders with that roster.
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Does Villanova beating up on the rest of the conference really show conference strength?
Or does it show that the Big East is so down this year that a team which lost early season games to Furman and Penn can run roughshod over it?
My hope is that Villanova has made huge strides since November/December.
My fear is that the Big East is way, way down.
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At this point, I don't think it matters much. Our ceiling is probably a 2-seed regardless of what Villanova does. If we win out we might get to the 1-line, but considering at the minimum, one of Duke/Virginia, Michigan/MSU, & Tennessee/Kentucky will be on the top line and Gonzaga is ahead of us and unlikely to lose, a 1-seed seems unattainable.
So if our ceiling is a 2, we'll get there if we keep winning. We will have enough Q1/2 wins regardless if we take care of business. Though to get to a 2, we probably can't lose more than 2-3 more games. Considering the 7 teams listed above & Kansas isn't one of them, I really think 3 is the most likely best case.
How refreshing is it to be talking like this instead of gnashing teeth over how many conference tournament games they need to win to get in?
I love it.
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We need Nova to win enough to show some conference strength but lose more than us, and especially lose TO us. In some folk’s minds we are already a 4 bid conference. Put MU/Nova at the top and allow the 4-way tie for 3rd place turn into some extra bids.
Time to stop worrying about strength of conference/strength of schedule. This is what Bubble Teams worry about in hopes of building their resume.
We are 17-3 and just outside the Top 10. We take care of our business, and our seed will be very good. If we win the Big East, our seed will be even better. Cheer for MU to win, and Villanova to lose! It's that simple.
We are not a Bubble Team, which also means those of you cheering for UW because it helps our resume, can immediately STOP with that, too!
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Indiana is a complete traiwreck
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Buffalo down at Kent State on CBSSN.
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Michigan 33 - Indiana 18 Halftime
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Michigan 33 - Indiana 18 Halftime
I used to lurk the last few years here and a few posters always had IU scores. It was kind of interesting to see. Now, they don’t seem to care about IU. Weird.
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We should root for Villanova to win, except when they are playing MU.
Wrong they are our main rivals to winning the BE. We want Nova to lose.
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I used to lurk the last few years here and a few posters always had IU scores. It was kind of interesting to see. Now, they don’t seem to care about IU. Weird.
Umm ur post as a followup to someone posting an IU score is 100% completely contradictory
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I used to lurk the last few years here and a few posters always had IU scores. It was kind of interesting to see. Now, they don’t seem to care about IU. Weird.
Not interesting at all. Some people didn't like Crean. Who cares. We got spanked by IU and they have been struggling. Thats why IU scores appear now.
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Buffalo coach went into Leitao's closet for the necktie.
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Not interesting at all. Some people didn't like Crean. Who cares. We got spanked by IU and they have been struggling. Thats why IU scores appear now.
Oh I get entirely why they exist now, they are an opponent of ours this year. The wheels have fully come off Archie’s wagon at the moment. But have to give a guy 4 to 5 in my opinion to see what he can do.
It was strange seeing IU scores last few years, almost always when losing and similarly Va Tech scores but usually only when winning...by same peeps. Cool correlation experiment. 😂
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Time to stop worrying about strength of conference/strength of schedule. This is what Bubble Teams worry about in hopes of building their resume.
We are 17-3 and just outside the Top 10. We take care of our business, and our seed will be very good. If we win the Big East, our seed will be even better. Cheer for MU to win, and Villanova to lose! It's that simple.
We are not a Bubble Team, which also means those of you cheering for UW because it helps our resume, can immediately STOP with that, too!
Exactly—we are in a different position now. We kick a$$. Other teams (3-4) are discussing who they want to win amongst teams above them in the standings. Not us.
Next game is all that matters.
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I used to lurk the last few years here and a few posters always had IU scores. It was kind of interesting to see. Now, they don’t seem to care about IU. Weird.
Wow same. I’ve been too—waiting for someone to call out IU. Weird.
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I used to lurk the last few years here and a few posters always had IU scores. It was kind of interesting to see. Now, they don’t seem to care about IU. Weird.
You were a non posting lurker on Scoop for 3 years?
Lie.
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Oh I get entirely why they exist now, they are an opponent of ours this year. The wheels have fully come off Archie’s wagon at the moment. But have to give a guy 4 to 5 in my opinion to see what he can do.
It was strange seeing IU scores last few years, almost always when losing and similarly Va Tech scores but usually only when winning...by same peeps. Cool correlation experiment. 😂
You (in all your identities) are doing some serious TC/Buzz trolling these days. I don't pay much attention, maybe you can enlighten me. Does Georgia's Crean still look like the run of the mill coach that Indiana canned and is Buzz still on target to be the best coach in Virginia Tech history (after being the 2nd best one in MU history)? What are you "peeps" (lol-who talks like that?) telling you?
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Wisconsin. Louisville. UMBC all won.
Kansas State lost at Texas A&M.
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“Lurking” as hoopaloop n others
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You (in all your identities) are doing some serious TC/Buzz trolling these days. I don't pay much attention, maybe you can enlighten me. Does Georgia's Crean still look like the run of the mill coach that Indiana canned and is Buzz still on target to be the best coach in Virginia Tech history (after being the 2nd best one in MU history)? What are you "peeps" (lol-who talks like that?) telling you?
Second best in MU history??? and MU happy as a clam that he is gone....should tell you something
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You were a non posting lurker on Scoop for 3 years?
Lie.
For full 3 years, nope....didn’t make that claim either. Starts and stops, not consecutive
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Wisconsin. Louisville. UMBC all won.
Kansas State lost at Texas A&M.
KSU looked OK in the first half, but they only scored about 4 points in the first 6-8 minutes of the second half and ended up getting beat up by a not very good A&M team. They've been playing so well lately too. I couldn't believe how bad they looked.
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I used to lurk the last few years here and a few posters always had IU scores. It was kind of interesting to see. Now, they don’t seem to care about IU. Weird.
So sayeth Banny McBannerson
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Chicos is off his meds again
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Wisconsin. Louisville. UMBC all won.
Kansas State lost at Texas A&M.
What a weird team.
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Wisconsin. Louisville. UMBC all won.
Kansas State lost at Texas A&M.
Was at the TAMU game. TAMU switched to a zone in the second half and it completely flustered K-State. They were getting open shots but couldn't couldn't hit water from a boat today. Not good for Marquette, but I feel good enough with our resume that I was happy to see my adopted team pull out a big win.
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So sayeth Banny McBannerson
Correct
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Indiana blows. About to lose to Rutgers baring a miracle.
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Indiana blows. About to lose to Rutgers baring a miracle.
If you look at their schedule its almost impossible to find where they might win. They could lose out the rest of the season.
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If you look at their schedule its almost impossible to find where they might win. They could lose out the rest of the season.
Archie a tough second season after a getting off to a very good start. Something wrong in that locker room, eh?
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Indiana is a train wreck
On the plus side. Maybe Louisville being up by about 100 on Wake will help our NET
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UMBC with a win against stonybrook. Gonna be a race between them and Vermont again.
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News Flash:
We don't need to worry about what our opponents are doing. We're set.
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News Flash:
We don't need to worry about what our opponents are doing. We're set.
+ infinity
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News Flash:
We don't need to worry about what our opponents are doing. We're set.
I thought that all goes into figuring our strength or in this case(Indiana) weakness of schedule.
Which Indiana team did we play??
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The good news is we only have 3 losses. The bad news is that those losses are not looking so good now. Also we haven't played Nova yet.
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The good news is we only have 3 losses. The bad news is that those losses are not looking so good now. Also we haven't played Nova yet.
But a lot of our wins look impressive from that non con.
Also, the more Kansas loses the better chance we got at Des Moines
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Archie ... another WonderCoach who allegedly is miles better than our guy.
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Archie ... another WonderCoach who allegedly is miles better than our guy.
Not a huge fan of the miller family. Love to see Archie struggle and be terminated after a few years. Along with the other one going down in the FBI probe.
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I'm worried...
That the next team we play that will be legitimately better than us could be in the round of 16 or elite 8.
In past years there was always one or two BEAST teams good enough to spank us - at least away and occasionally at home. We will still be tested with Nova twice and we could still piss ourselves against a lesser opponent, but unlike previous years we have no chance to test out against a much better opponent.
In some ways that's good...
But it's also good to have a thorough test before there's elimination on the line.
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I'm worried...
That the next team we play that will be legitimately better than us could be in the round of 16 or elite 8.
In past years there was always one or two BEAST teams good enough to spank us - at least away and occasionally at home. We will still be tested with Nova twice and we could still piss ourselves against a lesser opponent, but unlike previous years we have no chance to test out against a much better opponent.
In some ways that's good...
But it's also good to have a thorough test before there's elimination on the line.
Meh I’m not too worried. We are still playing 9 top 75 road games.
We played Kansas, Kstate, UL, Wisco, Buffalo. We are tested.
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I'm worried...
That the next team we play that will be legitimately better than us could be in the round of 16 or elite 8.
In past years there was always one or two BEAST teams good enough to spank us - at least away and occasionally at home. We will still be tested with Nova twice and we could still piss ourselves against a lesser opponent, but unlike previous years we have no chance to test out against a much better opponent.
In some ways that's good...
But it's also good to have a thorough test before there's elimination on the line.
Went fine for Nova last year.
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MU is plenty tested. And eventually, if MU keeps winning, particularly in the tourney, they are going to have to play a really good team. And they might even lose.
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Super fun game to watch on CBSSN. Bowling Green beats Buffalo 92-88.
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Super fun game to watch on CBSSN. Bowling Green beats Buffalo 92-88.
Glad it was fun to watch . Unfortunately does not help our cause.
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IU up 2 @ MSU with 4 minutes left. Would be a great upset for MU on both fronts. (Not to mention I have have IU moneyline!)
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Just tuned in, Indiana looks great on defense and clueless on offense, at least these last few possessions. Hope they hold on.
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Indiana's best player had been in the locker room since the 7 minute mark in the first half with what looked like a very serious shoulder injury. Just sent their 6th man to the locker room with a possible broken finger. Still hanging in there.
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FT"S NO MATTA
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OT. This would be so good for the Marquette seeding convo. Wish that game winner had fallen.
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Terrible last off possession in reg time for it's IU it's IU
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That Indians possession was unexplainable
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Langford playing out of his mind the last 10 minutes
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FT"S NO MATTA
MSU 6-20 from the FT line
#ftmatta
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Archie Miller is about to have to throw a jersey on. IU incredibly thin right now with injuries and fouls. Can't belive I'm rooting for them so hard right now
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MSU 6-20 from the FT line
#ftmatta
Now 8-22. Winston 4-4, rest of MSU an amazing 4-18.
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MSU 6-20 from the FT line
#ftmatta
I didn't think teal was necessary
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That last play of regulation for Indiana was terrible. Everyone knew Langford would try to go one-on-one and wasn't giving it up for anything. Good for us on a couple levels.
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Looserville beats VPI at VPI
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Looserville beats VPI at VPI
This is why I think we have a legit shot at a 2 seed & should be a 3 at worst. We're competing with ACC, Big 10, SEC, & Big 12 schools. Those leagues have landmines every night. As long as we win the games we're supposed to, we'll still rack up Q1 wins while they end up with too many losses (even if acceptable losses).
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This is why I think we have a legit shot at a 2 seed & should be a 3 at worst. We're competing with ACC, Big 10, SEC, & Big 12 schools. Those leagues have landmines every night. As long as we win the games we're supposed to, we'll still rack up Q1 wins while they end up with too many losses (even if acceptable losses).
I see it just the opposite. Those teams will rack up better wins while Marquette gets largely empty victories. That will make an already wide gap that much wider. And I do think there is a sizeable gap between Marquette and the top 8. Q1A wins are the big difference. MU has 2 and only 1 more Q1A game on the schedule.
Plus, any Marquette loss other than Nova will be damaging. So Marquette has very little margin for error. The Big East is just too weak this year.
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I see it just the opposite. Those teams will rack up better wins while Marquette gets largely empty victories. That will make an already wide gap that much wider. And I do think there is a sizeable gap between Marquette and the top 8. Q1A wins are the big difference. MU has 2 and only 1 more Q1A game on the schedule.
Plus, any Marquette loss other than Nova will be damaging. So Marquette has very little margin for error. The Big East is just too weak this year.
I mostly agree with this.......I do think at the end if the day both Nova games have a good chance of being quad 1a win possibilities. ....but unlikely we win both so.......
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i see all your points above, but...
the pac 10 is really really weak-with the exception of their win over duke and smokin some teams they really should beat up, but is also emblematic of their weak schedule what else do the zags have?
nevada-one loss to new mexico?? otherwise a really really weak schedule-not much room for error here
kentucky-tough conference with some quality wins-room for a slip, but pretty good team of high school all stars being paid a little less than silvio's $2500, ein'a?
unc-another pretty good team, but now with a tougher class load ;) can lose a couple more
michigan may have peaked at the wrong time. also time to recover as they usually do
mich st. heard they hired a distant cousin of dr(used very loosely)nassar who has a very unusual way of tending to turned ankles-doc, why am i grabbing my ankles?? :-[
might be able to sneak by a couple of these, but bottom line-take care of business on our end(end of nassar analogies)and just win baby
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i see all your points above, but...
the pac 10 is really really weak-with the exception of their win over duke and smokin some teams they really should beat up, but is also emblematic of their weak schedule what else do the zags have?
nevada-one loss to new mexico?? otherwise a really really weak schedule-not much room for error here
kentucky-tough conference with some quality wins-room for a slip, but pretty good team of high school all stars being paid a little less than silvio's $2500, ein'a?
unc-another pretty good team, but now with a tougher class load ;) can lose a couple more
michigan may have peaked at the wrong time. also time to recover as they usually do
mich st. heard they hired a distant cousin of dr(used very loosely)nassar who has a very unusual way of tending to turned ankles-doc, why am i grabbing my ankles?? :-[
might be able to sneak by a couple of these, but bottom line-take care of business on our end(end of nassar analogies)and just win baby
What pac 10 team beat duke?
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i see all your points above, but...
the pac 10 is really really weak-with the exception of their win over duke and smokin some teams they really should beat up, but is also emblematic of their weak schedule what else do the zags have?
nevada-one loss to new mexico?? otherwise a really really weak schedule-not much room for error here
kentucky-tough conference with some quality wins-room for a slip, but pretty good team of high school all stars being paid a little less than silvio's $2500, ein'a?
unc-another pretty good team, but now with a tougher class load ;) can lose a couple more
michigan may have peaked at the wrong time. also time to recover as they usually do
mich st. heard they hired a distant cousin of dr(used very loosely)nassar who has a very unusual way of tending to turned ankles-doc, why am i grabbing my ankles?? :-[
might be able to sneak by a couple of these, but bottom line-take care of business on our end(end of nassar analogies)and just win baby
Maybe I read this wrong but just confirming that you know Gonzaga isn't a PAC team right?
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Gonzaga being in the WCC is just an utter joke. Its complete trash. They win every game by 25 plus, I mean its just silly. Hows that fun for the fans to watch them play trash teams every night. They gotta try to get the hell outta there.
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Gonzaga being in the WCC is just an utter joke. Its complete trash. They win every game by 25 plus, I mean its just silly. Hows that fun for the fans to watch them play trash teams every night. They gotta try to get the hell outta there.
Really thought that conference was going to take a step up when BYU joined but st Mary's has continued to be what they are, BYU took a huge step back and Zags are just too good for either of those two to compete with
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Maybe I read this wrong but just confirming that you know Gonzaga isn't a PAC team right?
oops-sorry-both you guys are right-but yes, the wcc is even worse
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Kansas' LeGerald Vick is taking a "personal leave of absence" with no timetable for return. His mother said he's needed at home for a few weeks. With Garrett still nursing a high ankle sprain, things could go from bad to worse in Lawrence. Fortunately for us, they'd need to fall a ton to not be a Q1 loss
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Kansas' LeGerald Vick is taking a "personal leave of absence" with no timetable for return. His mother said he's needed at home for a few weeks. With Garrett still nursing a high ankle sprain, things could go from bad to worse in Lawrence. Fortunately for us, they'd need to fall a ton to not be a Q1 loss
When was the last time the Jayhawks didn't win the Big 8? Streak may finally end this year.
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When was the last time the Jayhawks didn't win the Big 8? Streak may finally end this year.
14 in a row
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When was the last time the Jayhawks didn't win the Big 8? Streak may finally end this year.
2004, Self's first year in Lawrence.
They're currently tied for 4th, 1.5 games back of Kansas State. They are 1-6 on the road this season with 4 road games left. Having the streak end in a year where many picked them as the preseason #1 would certainly be a disappointment.
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2004, Self's first year in Lawrence.
They're currently tied for 4th, 1.5 games back of Kansas State. They are 1-6 on the road this season with 4 road games left. Having the streak end in a year where many picked them as the preseason #1 would certainly be a disappointment.
Injuries, ineligibility, FBI drama....not that surprising in my opinion. They need a good cleansing and I say that as an alum.
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Kansas' LeGerald Vick is taking a "personal leave of absence" with no timetable for return. His mother said he's needed at home for a few weeks. With Garrett still nursing a high ankle sprain, things could go from bad to worse in Lawrence. Fortunately for us, they'd need to fall a ton to not be a Q1 loss
Hopefully the committee remembers Marquette played Kansas at full strength, when the Jayhawks were like a #1 seed.
It will be interesting to see how the committee treats Kansas when factoring in Azubuike's injury and Vick's absence.
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2004, Self's first year in Lawrence.
They're currently tied for 4th, 1.5 games back of Kansas State. They are 1-6 on the road this season with 4 road games left. Having the streak end in a year where many picked them as the preseason #1 would certainly be a disappointment.
That is fourteen years then. I wonder when the next time a team from one of the Big Six conferences goes that many years in a row winning the regular season? That record may stand for awhile.
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That is fourteen years then. I wonder when the next time a team from one of the Big Six conferences goes that many years in a row winning the regular season? That record may stand for awhile.
Probably until the NCAA finally decides they can no longer turn their back on the blatant cheating Kansas has been doing under Self and they finally have to vacate wins.
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Probably until the NCAA finally decides they can no longer turn their back on the blatant cheating Kansas has been doing under Self and they finally have to vacate wins.
Never trust a guy wearing a bad hairpiece, eh?
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K State beats Baylor on the road to move to 8-2, 2 games ahead in the loss column. Looking better and better.
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At this point of the season I just don’t think it matters much at all anymore. It would be much more important if we were right on the bubble. I just don’t think Wisconsin, KState, or others falling apart down the stretch of the season drops us from a 3 seed to outside the top 16 teams, or vice versa and raises us up a seed line. It’s all in our own hands. If we lose a couple to the likes of DePaul or Creighton we’re dropping. If we only lose 2 more (including the BET) we very well may jump to a 2 seed.
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K State beats Baylor on the road to move to 8-2, 2 games ahead in the loss column. Looking better and better.
Looking in how poor they played in December. I'm thrilled Kansas State is doing this well in making Marquette's win look pretty great. I would think they will be ranked come Monday.
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When it comes to seeding, we're competing with the likes of Michigan State, UNC, Kansas, Purdue, & Louisville. Those are schools that will have some seriously quality Q1 wins. If we want a 2/3, the better our resume, the more likely we avoid the 1-seed side of the bracket.
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Louisville looking pretty good right now.
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Nobody wants the ball for Louisville right now.
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Louisville imploding.
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Duke has come back from 23 down with 10 to play to 5 down at the under 4.
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Duke has come back from 23 down with 10 to play to 5 down at the under 4.
This looks like karma for the Dwight Buycks game about 8 years too late.
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Wow one hell of a choke going on in the Ville. Crazy
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Fire Mack
What a choke job
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Louisville looking pretty good right now.
Wow. That happened quickly. Louisville played just horrendously at the end of that game.
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Louisville just experienced how we felt when they came back down 18 with 5 to go
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Fire Mack
What a choke job
Tops the epic buzz meltdown at the yum center a few years back. Up 18 with 5:43 to play. Even put Erik Williams in the game lol..
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Louisville just experienced how we felt when they came back down 18 with 5 to go
Was Erik Williams rooting for 'ville?
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Wow. I really wanted Ville to win.
At least F%cky lost, which tickles me to no end. They will be toast next year when they are Happ-less. Burned toast, no jam, no butter, no nuthin'!
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23 pts
That’s unreal
At home too
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Louisville losing is a better result for MU. No way MU passes Duke but Louisville was creeping up fast. Need to play for that 2-3 line.
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Louisville losing is a better result for MU. No way MU passes Duke but Louisville was creeping up fast. Need to play for that 2-3 line.
Meh. They weren’t that close to us. And their schedule is tough. They got at Cuse coming up too.
UL may drop big if anything
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K-State with impressive win at Shaka U.
KSU has won 9 straight games. Our decisive win over them looks better every day.
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K-State with impressive win at Shaka U.
KSU has won 9 straight games. Our decisive win over them looks better every day.
9 straight Big12 games
They did have a head scratcher tossed in the middle there losing to A&M
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Louisville losing is a better result for MU. No way MU passes Duke but Louisville was creeping up fast. Need to play for that 2-3 line.
Agree completely
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9 straight Big12 games
They did have a head scratcher tossed in the middle there losing to A&M
Was at that game. TAMU switched to a zone for the second half and Kansas State looked like they had never played basketball before. Got tons of open looks but couldn't get anything to fall. Just one of those things
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Indiana looks really good
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Indiana looks really good
Watching IU fans ask for Archie's head has been hilarity in action.
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Was Erik Williams rooting for 'ville?
Erik Williams was Buzz's boy. Even started the guy.
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Watching IU fans ask for Archie's head has been hilarity in action.
Who cares about IU?
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Erik Williams was Buzz's boy. Even started the guy.
A few scoopers we’re so excited that he signed with MU that they wondered if he would leave early for the NBA!
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do we want st. johns or villanova to win? hopefully that 3/4 court shot at the half time buzzer(37-26) will fire up the johnnies, otherwise the devils are playing with their food here
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do we want st. johns or villanova to win? hopefully that 3/4 court shot at the half time buzzer(37-26) will fire up the johnnies, otherwise the devils are playing with their food here
I'd say SJU if you think winning the Big East is realistic. And it is.
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do we want st. johns or villanova to win? hopefully that 3/4 court shot at the half time buzzer(37-26) will fire up the johnnies, otherwise the devils are playing with their food here
St. John's. Would move us half a game back of Villanova in the BE standings. Beat Butler and we would take first place.
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because the jonnies beat us twice though. if the could home crowd could fire up and coax a win out their boys here, wouldn't that give us some rpi cred? i know they changed to some other rating, but...
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because the jonnies beat us twice though. if the could home crowd could fire up and coax a win out their boys here, wouldn't that give us some rpi cred? i know they changed to some other rating, but...
Well like you said, RPI isn't the metric anymore. Also, even it wasn't the metric, it wouldn't matter because we play Villanova and St. John's two times each. So either you are making our losses look better or our win and whatever we do at Nova in two weeks better.
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Well like you said, RPI isn't the metric anymore. Also, even it wasn't the metric, it wouldn't matter because we play Villanova and St. John's two times each. So either you are making our losses look better or our win and whatever we do at Nova in two weeks better.
alrighty then-st john's got er rolling in the 2nd half. they have some nice wins that should propel them into the dance short of a complete melt down
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St. John's. Would move us half a game back of Villanova in the BE standings. Beat Butler and we would take first place.
Not if Villanova beats Georgetown before then (they tip off at 5:30 the same night that we play Butler at 8:00).
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Who cares about IU?
Agree, so why did someone else bring it up and you didn’t bother to mention it to the person that did....
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Not if Villanova beats Georgetown before then (they tip off at 5:30 the same night that we play Butler at 8:00).
i think eagle was thinking if 'nova/georgetown goes into overtime or weather err something
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Bucky v. Illini exceptionally ugly early. 10-4 UofI at 12:37 mark. Hard to watch.
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More of a question for the TV guys but I've noticed that a lot of Big Ten games have been on FSGO this year.
Has this been something that they have been doing for a while now, or is it new for this season? Any change Fox can snipe the Big Ten from ESPN?
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And I think that the announcer just said that Illinois is looking for its first back to back road wins in conf in 10 years
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More of a question for the TV guys but I've noticed that a lot of Big Ten games have been on FSGO this year.
Has this been something that they have been doing for a while now, or is it new for this season? Any change Fox can snipe the Big Ten from ESPN?
https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-big-ten-espn-fox-sports-20170724-story.html
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More of a question for the TV guys but I've noticed that a lot of Big Ten games have been on FSGO this year.
Has this been something that they have been doing for a while now, or is it new for this season? Any change Fox can snipe the Big Ten from ESPN?
Fox is also an owner of the Big Ten Network.
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https://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/college/ct-big-ten-espn-fox-sports-20170724-story.html
Guess I'm a year late to the party...Nice going...
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More of a question for the TV guys but I've noticed that a lot of Big Ten games have been on FSGO this year.
Has this been something that they have been doing for a while now, or is it new for this season? Any change Fox can snipe the Big Ten from ESPN?
Fox owns the B10 Network now, used to be 51/49 Conference, but Fox grabbed 51% awhile back.
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Illinois keeping it interesting. Down 2 with 1:22 to play.
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Man that was an ugly game........Happ benched down the stretch and was a non factor
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Man that was an ugly game........Happ benched down the stretch and was a non factor
Wisky will probably have to do that every game that's close in the final mins. What's his FT%? 41?
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Man that was an ugly game........Happ benched down the stretch and was a non factor
Illinois is so, so bad. Reminded me of one of those DePaul losses from a few years back... At least, the hope of that happening (to UW) kept me watching.
The first few losses for UW will be pretty satisfying next year but I think it's going to get boring. Davison/Reuvers et al can only try to draw so many charges before the refs figure them out. Not really a sustainable winning strategy.
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Just remember, all that matters is getting to the free throw line, not making the free throws when you get there. So Wisconsin should be hoping for teams to pull a Hack a Happ.
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Just remember, all that matters is getting to the free throw line, not making the free throws when you get there. So Wisconsin should be hoping for teams to pull a Hack a Happ.
You are correct....well the actual words are wrong....but the point you are making is correct. In certain late game scenarios, an individual's FT% can have a huge impact on that scenario.
In the big picture, Illinois shot a blistering 90.9% from the FT line while Wisconsin shot a below average 65.2%. Despite this Wisconsin won the battle at the free throw line by getting to the line 12 more times than Illinois. Their Free Throw Rate of .418 obliterated Illinois' FTR of .196 which helped them overcome virtual ties in eFG%, OR%, and TO%. How often Wisconsin got to the line was the difference in the game.
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Illinois is so, so bad. Reminded me of one of those DePaul losses from a few years back... At least, the hope of that happening (to UW) kept me watching.
The first few losses for UW will be pretty satisfying next year but I think it's going to get boring. Davison/Reuvers et al can only try to draw so many charges before the refs figure them out. Not really a sustainable winning strategy.
Illinois isn't actually as bad as their record shows. Over the last 3 weeks they were 5-1 with wins @ Maryland and vs Michigan State.
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Illinois isn't actually as bad as their record shows. Over the last 3 weeks they were 5-1 with wins @ Maryland and vs Michigan State.
For clarification purposes the win "@" MD was in the MSG. Maryland probably wins it at home.
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Just remember, all that matters is getting to the free throw line, not making the free throws when you get there. So Wisconsin should be hoping for teams to pull a Hack a Happ.
Wisconsin's "bad" 65.2% FT% helped them. For the game, they scored 0.97 ppp. Their FT offense was elite.
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If anyone is looking for a good chuckle, "Dakich" is trending on twitter. Some good stuff on there.
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Wisconsin's "bad" 65.2% FT% helped them. For the game, they scored 0.97 ppp. Their FT offense was elite.
Yet when Happ is shooting 40% from the line in conference play...
Not sure why you respond about UW’s team stats. I specifically said Gard should keep Happ in so he can get to the line down the stretch. All that matters.
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Man Indiana sucks.
Had a chance to help us out big time.
Can’t make a tip in to save their lives and then allow a costly one to lose
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Man Indiana sucks.
Had a chance to help us out big time.
Can’t make a tip in to save their lives and then allow a costly one to lose
I'd argue haarms went over the back on that tip in
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I'd argue haarms went over the back on that tip in
Was close. But Indiana got a lot of 50/50 calls tonight.
I remember when Morgan was a legit 1st team B10 contender. Dude just sits at the 3 line all game now. Terrible.
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Carsen was the second coming of John Starks. Combine that with Happ last night. Not a good week for the stars of the Big 10
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Edwards is one of my favorite players to watch in recent memory.
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Has there ever been a more profound collapse train wreck of a season for a team in recent memory. Indiana has just derailed right off a cliff into a pit of lava. Just unbelievable
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Has there ever been a more profound collapse train wreck of a season for a team in recent memory. Indiana has just derailed right off a cliff into a pit of lava. Just unbelievable
Both Miller bros holding each other’s beer at the moment
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I think our view of I4 is somewhat inflated. It's not like they were a preseason pick to be a FF contender. They weren't even preseason top 25, and they didn't get there until they after they put that whoop'in on us. They were picked 3rd in the preseason B14 coaches poll and are currently 12th. Have they disappointed based on the talent on that roster? Yes. The -9 preseason to current ranking is not that much worse than the -6 preseason to finish that we were in 2014, especially considering the discrepancy in number of teams in conference. Extremely disappointing? Yes. Historical collapse? No. Remember, it was only last year that USC went from preseason top 10 to NIT team that needed double OT to beat UNC Asheville.
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I think our view of I4 is somewhat inflated. It's not like they were a preseason pick to be a FF contender. They weren't even preseason top 25, and they didn't get there until they after they put that whoop'in on us. They were picked 3rd in the preseason B14 coaches poll and are currently 12th. Have they disappointed based on the talent on that roster? Yes. The -9 preseason to current ranking is not that much worse than the -6 preseason to finish that we were in 2014, especially considering the discrepancy in number of teams in conference. Extremely disappointing? Yes. Historical collapse? No. Remember, it was only last year that USC went from preseason top 10 to NIT team that needed double OT to beat UNC Asheville.
I dunno. I understand underperforming preseason predictions but I think it’s more about the complete falloff that’s jarring
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I dunno. I understand underperforming preseason predictions but I think it’s more about the complete falloff that’s jarring
MU was preseason 17 in the 2013-14 season, and didn't even make the NIT. I4 was preseason "others receiving votes" and is currently next four out of the NCAA tourney per bracketmatrix. Our view of them is inflated because of the beat-down they gave us in November.
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What does I4 mean
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MU was preseason 17 in the 2013-14 season, and didn't even make the NIT. I4 was preseason "others receiving votes" and is currently next four out of the NCAA tourney per bracketmatrix. Our view of them is inflated because of the beat-down they gave us in November.
perhaps I wasn’t specific. I moreso meant they were 12-2 including wins over us and Louisville and then went 1-11 in their next twelve games. Not the preseason hype
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What does I4 mean
Indiana.
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I'd argue haarms went over the back on that tip in
My initial thought was that he did, but the replay didn't seem to support it much. He did make contact, but watching the replay I didn't think it was the kind of thing that's routinely called, let alone in the final seconds. He's really tall and he jumped over the top of the Indiana player.
Edwards is one of my favorite players to watch in recent memory.
I'm a fan, too. He just had a bad night. It happens. I once saw Tim Hardaway go 0-for-17 in an NBA game, and he was an effen great player.
https://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199112270MIN.html
perhaps I wasn’t specific. I moreso meant they were 12-2 including wins over us and Louisville and then went 1-11 in their next twelve games. Not the preseason hype
Excellent point. It's not about preseason hype. It's about a team falling apart during what looked like a very promising season early on.
In the end, it looks like all they are going to get out of their one season of Langford is an NIT appearance (if that). I'd rather have a 5-star than not have a 5-star, but there are no guarantees.
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perhaps I wasn’t specific. I moreso meant they were 12-2 including wins over us and Louisville and then went 1-11 in their next twelve games. Not the preseason hype
Ahh, I understand what your saying now. I still don't think a drop-off can be classified as "historic" if they only peaked at 21 in the rankings, and are still in the mix for an at large less than a month from Selection Sunday. It's been shocking yes, but my no means unheard of.
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Indiana.
well yeah.. but whats with the 4? is it not IU
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well yeah.. but whats with the 4? is it not IU
When Coach Crean abandoned ship his excuse was "Its Indiana , Its Indiana" 4 Is there so I4
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Edwards is one of my favorite players to watch in recent memory.
Meh. He’s a shi ttier version of our guy.
If I want to see that type of player I’ll just enjoy Markus.
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Ahh, I understand what your saying now. I still don't think a drop-off can be classified as "historic" if they only peaked at 21 in the rankings, and are still in the mix for an at large less than a month from Selection Sunday. It's been shocking yes, but my no means unheard of.
Any other examples? 2007 Clemson & Oliver Purnell come to mind, but not often a team falls that far off a cliff. It's rare a team goes from having that kind of a start to not even making the NCAA tournament.
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What does I4 mean
"It's Indiana, it's Indiana."
-Tom Crean at his 1st Indiana press conference
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I'd argue haarms went over the back on that tip in
I'd argue that IU did not want to place themselves in Haarms way.
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Any other examples? 2007 Clemson & Oliver Purnell come to mind, but not often a team falls that far off a cliff. It's rare a team goes from having that kind of a start to not even making the NCAA tournament.
Just a quick look and I got I4 in 16-17. Started 10-2 with wins over #3 Kansas and #3 UNC. Ended up 18-15 and lost in the first round of the NIT, after refusing to host the game. That teams only wins from the end of January to the end of Febraury were a 3OT home win vs Penn St, and a 1 point home win vs NW.
I also still refuse to believe that last year ASU (started 12-0, finished 20-11) and Oklahoma (Started 14-2, finished 18-13) deserved bids. Indiana still has a shot at getting a bid this year too. There's a lot of work to be done, but go 2-1 in their next three, and they should be projected back in the field.
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TOM CREAN:
https://twitter.com/bleacherreport/status/1098424230956466178?s=21
What a sucky ass way to lose a basketball game. Ha. Couldn’t have happened to a better guy 😎
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TOM CREAN:
https://twitter.com/bleacherreport/status/1098424230956466178?s=21
What a sucky ass way to lose a basketball game. Ha. Couldn’t have happened to a better guy 😎
What's to stop an away fan from throwing something on the court at the end of a close game if home team is gonna get punished for fan behavior?
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Yet when Happ is shooting 40% from the line in conference play...
Not sure why you respond about UW’s team stats. I specifically said Gard should keep Happ in so he can get to the line down the stretch. All that matters.
#FTsNoMatta means that team FT% isn't relevant to wins and losses. You know that.
(PS - Gard said he kept Happ out because of his turnovers)
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What's to stop an away fan from throwing something on the court at the end of a close game if home team is gonna get punished for fan behavior?
They're surrounded by home fans.
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What's to stop an away fan from throwing something on the court at the end of a close game if home team is gonna get punished for fan behavior?
Great point. Might utilize this at MSG during BETOURNEY.
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They're surrounded by home fans.
How are they going to stop the action of it even if they pounce on the fan after it happens?
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How are they going to stop the action of it even if they pounce on the fan after it happens?
Chicos should know, he routinely gets his ass beat by those around him and is still a complete dbag.
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Chicos should know, he routinely gets his ass beat by those around him and is still a complete dbag.
Unnecessary
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UMBC just completed the season sweep of Vermont. They are a game back in the standings but have the tiebreaker. Them and Presbyterian have been solid buy games.
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UMBC just completed the season sweep of Vermont. They are a game back in the standings but have the tiebreaker. Them and Presbyterian have been solid buy games.
Impressive sweep of Vermont. Maybe they make the tourney this year without the buzzer beater.
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A Kstate win tonight would be nice. It was a long shot coming in. But if Dean Wade is gonna play like a 10th grade boy..they in big trouble. Horrible shots, TO's, foul trouble and Kansas had half their pts with him on defense.
Would be nice to keep improving the Kstate win and to keep Kansas behind us in seeding.
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I wouldn't count on it. KU @ Phog is a very tough team to beat. They've been atrocious at times on the road. In hindsight, it makes our blown 2nd half on a neutral court sting even more. Personally I'd much rather have that one back than Indiana, who ran us out of the gym. We had our foot on KU's throat and forgot how to step.
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A Kstate win tonight would be nice. It was a long shot coming in. But if Dean Wade is gonna play like a 10th grade boy..they in big trouble. Horrible shots, TO's, foul trouble and Kansas had half their pts with him on defense.
Would be nice to keep improving the Kstate win and to keep Kansas behind us in seeding.
KSU looked bad tonight. And yeah, it's at the Phog, but they just struggled the whole night. I've seen them play four or five other games this year, and I've never been all that impressed. Their defense is good, but their offense seems too stagnant. They're probably going to win the Big 12 this year, so they're clearly doing something right, though.
Maybe I'm just too used to a high powered offense. Or maybe losing a few bets has just soured me. It's probably the latter.
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Old timers help me .. is phog pronounced fog? Or what
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Phog Allen Fieldhouse. Pronounced Fog, you have it right. Phog Allen is an old OG Kansas legend, any fan of modern college BB should tip their cap.
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Phog Allen Fieldhouse. Pronounced Fog, you have it right. Phog Allen is an old OG Kansas legend, any fan of modern college BB should tip their cap.
Thank you Carl sir
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Old timers help me .. is phog pronounced fog? Or what
Put it on your bucket list to go to a Big 12 game there. It is quite the experience.
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Put it on your bucket list to go to a Big 12 game there. It is quite the experience.
Some would argue you’d have to pay people to go to Lawrence, KS, but not so much other places, ai’na?
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KSU looked bad tonight. And yeah, it's at the Phog, but they just struggled the whole night. I've seen them play four or five other games this year, and I've never been all that impressed. Their defense is good, but their offense seems too stagnant. They're probably going to win the Big 12 this year, so they're clearly doing something right, though.
Maybe I'm just too used to a high powered offense. Or maybe losing a few bets has just soured me. It's probably the latter.
Yeah they have a lot of veterans so they can make some timely plays on offense. But they are also very inept at times that the game can be over before they can make the veteran plays down the stretch.
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Wisconsin @ Indiana. One of the worst college basketball games I have ever seen. Just atrocious basketball from both sides.
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Wisconsin @ Indiana. One of the worst college basketball games I have ever seen. Just atrocious basketball from both sides.
It’s a travesty that one of these teams gets to leave with a win.
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That was brutal to watch. UW tried to draw the foul on the inbound again.
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Wisconsin @ Indiana. One of the worst college basketball games I have ever seen. Just atrocious basketball from both sides.
That was truly hard on the eyes.......
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Holy sheet.....that was just brutal to watch.
Terrible basketball.
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It’s a travesty that one of these teams gets to leave with a win.
No one wanted to win.
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Wisconsin 2/8 from the FT line in 2OT...yiiiikes
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This has to help us at least from a "worst loss" perspective. IU was definitely trending to our worst loss of the season, so it looks a little stronger. I personally am intrigued to see if they can win out and make the committee make some tough choices.
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Lol Wisconsin 2/8 to start the 2 OT from the line.
Race Thompson who has no experience at the line isn't fouled by Happ because he doesnt want to foul out. Indiana keeps passing to waste time and eventually get an And1 lay up to go up 3.
Dude misses the free throw.
They foul Trice shooting 3.
Wisconsin lets langford do the most predictable drive ever
Great game!
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It just felt that way.
(http://jwphotohost.azurewebsites.net/images/kenpom.jpg)
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It just felt that way.
(http://jwphotohost.azurewebsites.net/images/kenpom.jpg)
As a reward, Ken’s algorithm will probably improve Uw-madison another few spots. Ugly hoops
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As a reward, Ken’s algorithm will probably improve Uw-madison another few spots. Ugly hoops
“Wisconsin was very efficient in such a loss. Getting to the line 8 times in the second OT shows smart attacking basketball, makes no matta. Fantastic use of all 5 fouls by runaway POY Ethan Happ. Wisconsin moves up to 12”
-Kenny P
In other news, Jesse Newell moved Marquette down to 28th in his poll cause they scheduled both these teams
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Some would argue you’d have to pay people to go to Lawrence, KS, but not so much other places, ai’na?
Compared to Duke, yes. 16 home games at Phog doesn’t overcome the other 250 days you have to be there. I like the Baseball Hall of Fame, doesn’t mean I want to live in Cooperstown. Etc etc
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This has to help us at least from a "worst loss" perspective. IU was definitely trending to our worst loss of the season, so it looks a little stronger. I personally am intrigued to see if they can win out and make the committee make some tough choices.
I hate their resume so much. The top of their resume has more win depth than some teams pushing for the top lines (Tennessee, Houston, Texas Tech) and they don't have any terrible losses, but there's just so many. If they get to 17 wins & add a scalp or two in the B10T, they have to be considered.
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Wisconsin 2/8 from the FT line in 2OT...yiiiikes
Davison: 3 points in 43 minutes on 1-11 shooting. bwhahahha
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He was terrible last night.
The late airball was funny.
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Davison: 3 points in 43 minutes on 1-11 shooting. bwhahahha
Maybe the best Davison related tweet ever: https://twitter.com/natemar3i0n/status/1100616472647426048?s=21
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Maybe the best Davison related tweet ever: https://twitter.com/natemar3i0n/status/1100616472647426048?s=21
Savage
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Maybe the best Davison related tweet ever: https://twitter.com/natemar3i0n/status/1100616472647426048?s=21
That is a high quality tweet. I still think this one takes the cake: https://twitter.com/tcsociety/status/1071917006893576192?lang=en
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Maybe the best Davison related tweet ever: https://twitter.com/natemar3i0n/status/1100616472647426048?s=21
Think that guy is a SPASH friend of the hausers. Has some good stuff on the tweeter.
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Lol Wisconsin 2/8 to start the 2 OT from the line.
Race Thompson who has no experience at the line isn't fouled by Happ because he doesnt want to foul out. Indiana keeps passing to waste time and eventually get an And1 lay up to go up 3.
Dude misses the free throw.
They foul Trice shooting 3.
Wisconsin lets langford do the most predictable drive ever
Great game!
I watched the second half and overtime after watching Providence take down Butler and a little of Va Tech and Duke. The thing that struck me most is that in the VT/Duke game the players seemed just bigger than the other two games. Don't know if it was camera angles or what. Just looked like it was a game in the next league up.
At any rate, I wouldn't talk to much smack about IU-UW, since one of them waxed us on their court and we had to go to OT on our home floor to beat the other one. It was an ugly game, though.
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I watched the second half and overtime after watching Providence take down Butler and a little of Va Tech and Duke. The thing that struck me most is that the VT/Duke game they players seemed just bigger than the other two games. Don't know if it was camera angles or what. Just looked like it was a game in the next league up.
At any rate, I wouldn't talk to much smack about IU-UW, since one of them waxed us on their court and we had to go to OT on our home floor to beat the other one. It was an ugly game, though.
We are 23-4 while they are 14-14 and 19-9 respectively.
I don't really worry about our 1 match up with both.
The game was comical. And neither team looks great in general.
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I watched the second half and overtime after watching Providence take down Butler and a little of Va Tech and Duke. The thing that struck me most is that in the VT/Duke game the players seemed just bigger than the other two games. Don't know if it was camera angles or what. Just looked like it was a game in the next league up.
At any rate, I wouldn't talk to much smack about IU-UW, since one of them waxed us on their court and we had to go to OT on our home floor to beat the other one. It was an ugly game, though.
Duke is Duke, and they are generally in the next league up, so to speak. But outside of Zion (who didn't play), I don't find them very physically intimidating.
VT's team is big and strong and athletic. Fair amount of switchables out there. Wonder why. Buzz is an a-hole but he can recruit and he can coach. I for one do not want to see them in the tourney, for multiple reasons.
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"I wouldn't talk to much smack about IU-UW, since one of them waxed us on their court"
blind squirrels baby. we learned from our loss, apparently they didn't learn from their win ;)
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Indiana seems to be turning it around. Just beat Michigan State at home.
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Indiana seems to be turning it around. Just beat Michigan State at home.
that has got to drop michigan st to 10 and a 3/4 seed and move us up to solid 3 if not 2 as long as we win.
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I'm watching the end of Bucky/Penn State.
Gard is going full Bo Ryan. He is whining and screaming about every call that goes against him even if he has no basis for complaining.
Is he always like this or is he "more Bo" this game than others?
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that has got to drop michigan st to 10 and a 3/4 seed and move us up to solid 3 if not 2 as long as we win.
Why?
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I'm watching the end of Bucky/Penn State.
Gard is going full Bo Ryan. He is whining and screaming about every call that goes against him even if he has no basis for complaining.
Is he always like this or is he "more Bo" this game than others?
The refs were simply awful down the stretch. They "let them play" with Bucky up two and then three in the final minute allowing Bucky to hammer Penn State without getting called.
This "let them play" in the final seconds is terrible. Officiate the game the same way the entire way.
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Good lord, the music DJ at the Kohl Center is a joke. Hanson, Celion Dion.
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That no call at the end of the game was an absolute abomination...worst call i have seen...that was A. A shot attempt. B. A foul(or murder). Then to not look at/overturn the OOB's call?? UW gifted one again. I get so tired of that crap happening for them.
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The refs were simply awful down the stretch. They "let them play" with Bucky up two and then three in the final minute allowing Bucky to hammer Penn State without getting called.
This "let them play" in the final seconds is terrible. Officiate the game the same way the entire way.
We agree, Smuggles.
I certainly can see not calling touch fouls down the stretch (though I'd prefer they not call those at all), but there were two pretty terrible misses late. Reuvers clearly got fouled with about a minute to go, and then Pretzelman absolutely hammered the Penn State player with a couple seconds to go. A ton of contact on that one, and actually a take-down by the PSU player's head. Ridiculous no-call.
PSU shoulda gotten 2 FTs. If he make em it's a 1-point game. Quick foul and then a chance for a miracle shot.
Only thing more horrendous than the blown call was Dakich's dopey explanations for why there was no call. "You don't want to bail him out there." Bail him out? He was effen hammered. I'm impressed the PSU coach didn't get a T. I think I would have!
Of course, a few seconds earlier, PSU had a chance to tie or take the lead but couldn't even execute an entry pass, so I'm not gonna cry too hard for 'em. As usual, the refs didn't "cost" a team the game.
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I wonder how just barely scraping by these awful teams will set UW up for the tournament. They seem to ensure that any team they play will have a chance... UW could have just as well lost to all of Illinois, Penn State, and Northwestern.
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Yes...but they don’t lose those games. They win them. So frustrating.
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Another note on the refs ...
The guy who ignored the takedown by Pretzelman had to go look at the monitor to make sure the ball was really out of bounds off PSU.
He obviously had to see that Pretzelman committed a hard foul and that he badly blew the call. Do we think he cares? Do we think he says, "Oh crap, I really screwed the pooch there"? Or do we think he says, "Oh well, can't get 'em all. Can't wait for the payment to hit my bank account"?
I only ref youth basketball but when I realize later on that I missed an important call, I am sick about it.
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Another note on the refs ...
The guy who ignored the takedown by Pretzelman had to go look at the monitor to make sure the ball was really out of bounds off PSU.
He obviously had to see that Pretzelman committed a hard foul and that he badly blew the call. Do we think he cares? Do we think he says, "Oh crap, I really screwed the pooch there"? Or do we think he says, "Oh well, can't get 'em all. Can't wait for the payment to hit my bank account"?
I only ref youth basketball but when I realize later on that I missed an important call, I am sick about it.
That official is from...Milwaukee, and has had a history of making calls in crucial spots against Pat Chambers...just sayin.
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Davison: 3 points in 43 minutes on 1-11 shooting. bwhahahha
Davison today: 6 points in 32 minutes on 1-7 shooting (0-3 from deep).
What a dick.
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Why?
because their loss to indiana has got to sting a little bit
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Indiana beating Wisconsin. Our offense being top 50-ish. Our defense being top 75-ish. A Pitino back in Italy (err, Greece). Back to the mean. According to Hoyle. Feels good.
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and now houston(#8) dropping one at home to ucf
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Charleston Southern & Presbyterian both advanced to the Big South quarterfinals. If they both win Thursday they play each other for a trip to the championship game.
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Kansas got absolutely embarrassed tonight at Oklahoma. The final score is actually a little misleading, though. KU was down 24 with 4 minutes to play, and then OU really took their foot off the gas. I only caught bits and pieces, but what I did see wasn't pretty.
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Kansas got absolutely embarrassed tonight at Oklahoma. The final score is actually a little misleading, though. KU was down 24 with 4 minutes to play, and then OU really took their foot off the gas. I only caught bits and pieces, but what I did see wasn't pretty.
Kansas was 9-0 with Azubuike. Terrible loss for them. (Says Adm. Obvious.)
Agbaji missed the entire non-conference season and has been very inconsistent once he got into the lineup. And Grimes has been a major disappointment.
I'm no Kansas fan, but I can't help but feel a little badly for them. No fans of any team would want that kind of stuff to ruin their team's season.
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Purdue drops one to a mediocre Minny team. But as with most KenPom darlings, this should help them
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Think that guy is a SPASH friend of the hausers. Has some good stuff on the tweeter.
Same kid who went viral when the Brewers made the playoffs over the Cubs with his public apology letter to the Brewers. Made national news. Have to say the kid is witty as hell, and a major smack talker. He sits in the front row right behind the DJ at the games. Agree, he is a good follow on Twitter.
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Agbaji missed the entire non-conference season and has been very inconsistent once he got into the lineup.
Not exactly true. He was supposed to redshirt this year. He was fully available in non-con, they just elected to take the redshirt off.
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Not exactly true. He was supposed to redshirt this year. He was fully available in non-con, they just elected to take the redshirt off.
Thanks for the correction. Management regrets the error.
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Has anywon heer looked inda mirror, hey?
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Presbyterian lost but Charleston Southern beat Winthrop handily. They play defending champ Radford in the semifinals tomorrow
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Badgers playing some great ball as of late. Really controlling the game and executing well against lesser opponents. Gard seems to have the team trending in the right direction this time of year. As crappy as they’ve been throughout some stretches of the year, they’re going to finish ranked ahead of MU in the polls to end the regular season most likely.
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Badgers playing some great ball as of late. Really controlling the game and executing well against lesser opponents. Gard seems to have the team trending in the right direction this time of year. As crappy as they’ve been throughout some stretches of the year, they’re going to finish ranked ahead of MU in the polls to end the regular season most likely.
wow did they implode!! they were up by 18 at ohio state...going into OT
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I flipped away when it was 58-36 with 7 minutes left. Shocked to find out Ohio State could have win it in regulation.
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wow did they implode!! they were up by 18 at ohio state...going into OT
Becky was up 44-21 with 16:05 to play.
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Final scores matta, hey?
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Only in the win column.
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Zags losing to the Gaels with 12 minutes left.
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Zags losing to the Gaels with 12 minutes left.
Most likely pops a big ten bubble. Minnesota/Ohio St/Indiana don't deserve to be there. Although it could definitely hurt St. Johns if they lose to Depaul tomorrow.
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Most likely pops a big ten bubble. Minnesota/Ohio St/Indiana don't deserve to be there. Although it could definitely hurt St. Johns if they lose to Depaul tomorrow.
Dickie V - "We need to put them in the tournament regardless! All those mediocre teams with 14 and 15 losses...cmon!"
What a moron...it would be St Mary's 12th loss if they end up losing.
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Dickie V - "We need to put them in the tournament regardless! All those mediocre teams with 14 and 15 losses...cmon!"
What a moron...it would be St Mary's 12th loss if they end up losing.
I'm actually really curious what seed they will get. Normally when teams win tournaments for the auto bid that otherwise would not have made it they are seeded 13-16. But does beating the number 1 team bump them up to a 10-12. Again they wouldn't have made it with the loss which makes me think they will be seeded 13-16. Possibly bumping a mid major with the best record to a 12 or 11 that normally would be a 12/13
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I'm actually really curious what seed they will get. Normally when teams win tournaments for the auto bid that otherwise would not have made it they are seeded 13-16. But does beating the number 1 team bump them up to a 10-12. Again they wouldn't have made it with the loss which makes me think they will be seeded 13-16. Possibly bumping a mid major with the best record to a 12 or 11 that normally would be a 12/13
Looking at their schedule, there is no way they are lower than a 14. It'd be an incredibly bad draw for a 2 if they got a 15. I'd definitely put them in the pool of possible first round opponents against MU as an 11-13 seed.
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Looking at their schedule, there is no way they are lower than a 14. It'd be an incredibly bad draw for a 2 if they got a 15. I'd definitely put them in the pool of possible first round opponents against MU as an 11-13 seed.
I think they would almost have to be a 14 then. This might be one of the hardest teams to seed ever. 11 losses not a chance they got an at large but they are clearly better than the mid majors that will take 14-16 up. But again they would have not been in with a loss so they can't be ranked higher than a 13. This seed could throw off the balance of a bracket.
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St. Mary's has a net of 37. That is significantly stronger than a lot of autobids will be. They'll be at least a 12.
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St. Mary's has a net of 37. That is significantly stronger than a lot of autobids will be. They'll be at least a 12.
And they're now ahead of us in KenPom ratings (29 vs. 30)
they have all the makings of a classic 12/5 upset