Villanova thoughts

[tower912]

1.   This team never quits.   Kudos.   All a fan can ask for.
2.   Oxtule is not working.   Particularly against a guard oriented team like Nova.   That is on you, buzz
3.   Gift call at the end of regulation.   Refs spent the entire overtime compensating.
4.   Good to see Jamil attacking.   Wish he played smarter.   Throwing the ball into the defender when Gardner had him pinned?   C'mon, man. 
5.   Todd has no fear.  Wish he played like this every night.
6.   Bad pick and roll defense all game.   Poor communication, poor help, poor rotations.  I kept flashing back to Jerel in MSG.  Back door after back door.  But Nova does move the ball really well.
7.   Can't pull close and miss back to back front ends of 1-1's.   Particularly when you then give up a fast break lay up.
8.   Jake, you are a shooter.   Shoot. 
9.   MU has missed Steve Taylor, more than we realized.   Time to start him.   
10.   The last 5 years, MU has found  a way to  win games like this.  This year, it all evens out.  No magic.    Frustrating.   

[mileskishnish72]

Like his effort and pluck, but Jake needs to go.

[brandx]

A couple questions. I got home late and only saw the OT.

1. Did Dawson foul out

2. As their PG ran wild in OT, why wasn't our defensive specialist PG guarding him? Why is he even in the game if not for his defense?

[PGsHeroes32]

I think the thoughts are simple.

Jake, Chris and Derrick should rarely see the floor

Davante, Jamil and Todd should rarely see the bench

[Nevada233]

A couple questions. I got home late and only saw the OT.

1. Did Dawson foul out

2. As their PG ran wild in OT, why wasn't our defensive specialist PG guarding him? Why is he even in the game if not for his defense?

Nope had one foul... Got glued to the benched

[downtown85]

I think the thoughts are simple.

Jake, Chris and Derrick should rarely see the floor

Davante, Jamil and Todd should rarely see the bench

This:

PG: Dawson
SG:Mayo
SF: J. Wilson
PF: Taylor
C: Gartner

I don't care who starts but these should see the majority of minutes.

[JWags85]

I think the thoughts are simple.

Jake, Chris and Derrick should rarely see the floor

Davante, Jamil and Todd should rarely see the bench

Then they should clap more enthusiastically in practice. Buzz is too far in his own head

[mileskishnish72]

I've got to be honest - Derrick making his usual safe passes on the outside as time ticked away pissed me off. Tell me JD was hurt.

[BallBoy]

A couple questions. I got home late and only saw the OT.

1. Did Dawson foul out

2. As their PG ran wild in OT, why wasn't our defensive specialist PG guarding him? Why is he even in the game if not for his defense?

This is so humorous.  The GUY everyone says should start at 2G because of his offensive skills got taken in OT yet it was another guy fault.  Mayo was guarding Arcidiacono and he was also the one who threw a bad pass which lead to the three point play and Wilson fouling out.  

If you are going to blame Wilson for the lose at least pick the plays he was involved in.  

[nyg]

Game:

MU missed 10 free throws, including three front ends of one/one.
MU missed 8 shots from two feet.
Jake had no points, DWil/others got burned by Archie.  Mayo scored final MU 10 points in regulation, but that bad pass to start OT really set a bad tone. 

Thats ball game.

Kudos to Gardner.  29 and 13 and fought like hell.  

[Nevada233]

I've got to be honest - Derrick making his usual safe passes on the outside as time ticked away pissed me off. Tell me JD was hurt.

Nope he wasn't injured... I spoke to him last night.. he was ready to go... just got benched...
 

for who or what..... I have no idea...

[Archies Bat]

Game:

MU missed 10 free throws, including three front ends of one/one.
MU missed 8 shots from two feet.
Jake had no points, DWil/others got burned by Archie.  Mayo scored final MU 10 points in regulation, but that bad pass to start OT really set a bad tone. 

Thats ball game.

Kudos to Gardner.  29 and 13 and fought like hell.  

Clean, concise, accurate.

[CTWarrior]

I've got to be honest - Derrick making his usual safe passes on the outside as time ticked away pissed me off. Tell me JD was hurt.

This is something I've said every time we're chasing points at the end.  Derrick can't be on the floor when we need to score because not only is he not a threat, there is no sense of urgency in his play. 

When you think about it, he can't be in when we're ahead in a close game, either, since we can't afford to have him get fouled.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

This is so humorous.  The GUY everyone says should start at 2G because of his offensive skills got taken in OT yet it was another guy fault.  Mayo was guarding Arcidiacono and he was also the one who threw a bad pass which lead to the three point play and Wilson fouling out.  

If you are going to blame Wilson for the lose at least pick the plays he was involved in.  

Jamil didn't come to the ball after Todd picked up his dribble allowing his defender to step into the pass. He did the same on DW in the first half

[brandx]

This is so humorous.  The GUY everyone says should start at 2G because of his offensive skills got taken in OT yet it was another guy fault.  Mayo was guarding Arcidiacono and he was also the one who threw a bad pass which lead to the three point play and Wilson fouling out.  

If you are going to blame Wilson for the lose at least pick the plays he was involved in.  

That was MY POINT. Why isn't our defensive specialist PG guarding the other team's PG when he is eating us for lunch?

If Derrick can't guard him - why is he on the floor?

[NavinRJohnson]

One 3pt basket in the first 39 minutes. You cannot win that way.

[BallBoy]

That was MY POINT. Why isn't our defensive specialist PG guarding the other team's PG when he is eating us for lunch?

If Derrick can't guard him - why is he on the floor?

One player cannot guard a team.  Wilson did not lose this game. 

MU possessions:
Mayo turnover
Gardner Jumper...WILSON assist
Mayo missed Jumper...Davante missed Jumper...Davante missed layup
Davante missed jumper. Rebound. Two free throws
Davante jumper
Jake Thomas miss. Davante rebound. Two free throws
Mayo missed three...Anderson missed three
Wilson missed three with <2 seconds

If you look it was not Wilson who missed layups.  Also during MU's run with less than 2 minutes in regulation, who was playing PG.

[brandx]

One player cannot guard a team.  Wilson did not lose this game. 

MU possessions:
Mayo turnover
Gardner Jumper...WILSON assist
Mayo missed Jumper...Davante missed Jumper...Davante missed layup
Davante missed jumper. Rebound. Two free throws
Davante jumper
Jake Thomas miss. Davante rebound. Two free throws
Mayo missed three...Anderson missed three
Wilson missed three with <2 seconds

If you look it was not Wilson who missed layups.  Also during MU's run with less than 2 minutes in regulation, who was playing PG.

Did you even watch to see what a PG is supposed to do? Archi D controlled every possession in OT. Took it to the hoop and scored, took it to the hoop and dished for a score, beat his man on the dribble for a jumper. And our defensive specialist isn't trusted enough to guard him even when he is going off on someone else.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Game:

MU missed 10 free throws, including three front ends of one/one.
MU missed 8 shots from two feet.
Jake had no points, DWil/others got burned by Archie.  Mayo scored final MU 10 points in regulation, but that bad pass to start OT really set a bad tone. 

Thats ball game.

Kudos to Gardner.  29 and 13 and fought like hell.  

Definitely a big part of it.

To note, however

VU also missed 10 free throws
VU missed 6 layups

Their three point shooting was key.

[We R Final Four]

[quote author=tower912 link=topic=41668.msg559270#msg559270
2.   Oxtule is not working.   Particularly against a guard oriented team like Nova.   That is on you, buzz

[/quote]

I don't understand #2.
DG had a career high pts today(29) and 13 boards. We dominated the post today with Oxtule. I believe it was 58-30 on pts in the paint. Buzz will implement this approach every time we play a smaller/4 guard lineup.
Don't have 3 pt stats in front of me but I believe we were 2-6 on 3 pters.....they made 10. That's 30-6 right there. That is what's not working.

[Marquette_g]

So for as much credit as Buzz gets (deservedly so) for guys who develop under him (Butler, Blue, Crowder), there has to be some balance for guys that regress.  

J. Wilson, and O'Tule are certainly less productive than last year and if nothing else have not progressed. They needed to progress to compensate for the losses from last season and have not done so.

[CTWarrior]

[quote author=tower912 link=topic=41668.msg559270#msg559270
2.   Oxtule is not working.   Particularly against a guard oriented team like Nova.   That is on you, buzz



I don't understand #2.
DG had a career high pts today(29) and 13 boards. We dominated the post today with Oxtule. I believe it was 58-30 on pts in the paint. Buzz will implement this approach every time we play a smaller/4 guard lineup.
Don't have 3 pt stats in front of me but I believe we were 2-6 on 3 pters.....they made 10. That's 30-6 right there. That is what's not working.

We may want to zone or something with Oxtule.  We got caught a bunch of times today with Gardner trying to cover a much, much quicker player on the perimeter with bad results.

[tower912]

[quote author=tower912 link=topic=41668.msg559270#msg559270
2.   Oxtule is not working.   Particularly against a guard oriented team like Nova.   That is on you, buzz



I don't understand #2.
DG had a career high pts today(29) and 13 boards. We dominated the post today with Oxtule. I believe it was 58-30 on pts in the paint. Buzz will implement this approach every time we play a smaller/4 guard lineup.
Don't have 3 pt stats in front of me but I believe we were 2-6 on 3 pters.....they made 10. That's 30-6 right there. That is what's not working.

Whenever the other team has a line up on the floor that requires Gardner or Otule to chase them on the perimeter, it is a disadvantage for MU, regardless of what is happening on the offensive end.  

[BallBoy]

Did you even watch to see what a PG is supposed to do? Archi D controlled every possession in OT. Took it to the hoop and scored, took it to the hoop and dished for a score, beat his man on the dribble for a jumper. And our defensive specialist isn't trusted enough to guard him even when he is going off on someone else.

Did you know what MU's offensive strategy was?  No you don't.  MU's offense was focused on two things:

• Get the ball to Davante in the paint which happened quite frequently
• Run a screens to get Mayo or Thomas a clean shot or get Mayo a mismatch.  This also happened.

MU was going to run with their two best options Mayo and Gardner.  Why?...because Villanova plays a 4 guard lineup and their biggest guy can't guard Gardner.  MU missed shots in OT and defensively didn't stop anything.

The reason Wilson dribbles on the top is he is waiting for Davante to get position.  Wilson did what the strategy was and did it well as Gardner had 29 points.  

[77ncaachamps]

So for as much credit as Buzz gets (deservedly so) for guys who develop under him (Butler, Blue, Crowder), there has to be some balance for guys that regress.  

J. Wilson, and O'Tule are certainly less productive than last year and if nothing else have not progressed. They needed to progress to compensate for the losses from last season and have not done so.

It's because they're complementary players.

Jamil just...frustrates me: you can see the talent, but he's just not putting it together.
Maybe being "the man" is too much pressure for him.

[NersEllenson]

This:

PG: Dawson
SG:Mayo
SF: J. Wilson
PF: Taylor
C: Gartner

I don't care who starts but these should see the majority of minutes.

Bingo - Far and away the best lineup for Marquette.

[brandx]

Did you know what MU's offensive strategy was?  No you don't.  MU's offense was focused on two things:

• Get the ball to Davante in the paint which happened quite frequently
• Run a screens to get Mayo or Thomas a clean shot or get Mayo a mismatch.  This also happened.

MU was going to run with their two best options Mayo and Gardner.  Why?...because Villanova plays a 4 guard lineup and their biggest guy can't guard Gardner.  MU missed shots in OT and defensively didn't stop anything.

The reason Wilson dribbles on the top is he is waiting for Davante to get position.  Wilson did what the strategy was and did it well as Gardner had 29 points.  

C'mon man....

[forgetful]

This:

PG: Dawson
SG:Mayo
SF: J. Wilson
PF: Taylor
C: Gartner

I don't care who starts but these should see the majority of minutes.

That lineup would give up over 90 to Depaul.  Gardner is our worst post defender.  Dawson may be our worst perimeter defender.  Mayo can play solid defense, but gambles too much and then gives up easy scores.  Taylor is not completely mobile yet and is poor at rotating and tends to give up back door buckets.  

Only Wilson in that lineup is solid defensively.

We may score 85 with that lineup, but would lose 92-85 to Depaul.

[BallBoy]

C'mon man....

Watch the players move and understand what MU is trying to do.  Against Georgetown, we were facing a zone so it was a different strategy.  They had Taylor flashing to the middle of the zone where he shot from the line, drove, or looked to pass out as the defense collapse. 

The reason I think Dawson played more against Georgetown was because you need people to shoot the three.  That is one of the things I think we can all agree Dawson is not afraid to do though he has had marginal success doing it at 27.8%.  The value prop in that situation is Dawson has shown that he is willing to shoot it while Wilson doesn't. 

[NersEllenson]

That lineup would give up over 90 to Depaul.  Gardner is our worst post defender.  Dawson may be our worst perimeter defender.  Mayo can play solid defense, but gambles too much and then gives up easy scores.  Taylor is not completely mobile yet and is poor at rotating and tends to give up back door buckets.  

Only Wilson in that lineup is solid defensively.

We may score 85 with that lineup, but would lose 92-85 to Depaul.

That's funny because somehow we were able to beat Georgetown on the road with that lineup.  The whole argument of some of these guys being poor defenders is a reach.  Derrick isn't this amazing defender who never gets beat off the bounce and totally shuts his guy down. See Thames, Xavier.  Carson, Jahi.  

It is clearly evident is that the team is significantly handicapped offensively.  

[warriorstrack]

Play the best players more often, a little nebulous, but I think must people get the point.  Yes match-ups call for different approaches, but your best players should be playing the majority of minutes

[AirPunches]

That lineup would give up over 90 to Depaul.  Gardner is our worst post defender.  Dawson may be our worst perimeter defender.  Mayo can play solid defense, but gambles too much and then gives up easy scores.  Taylor is not completely mobile yet and is poor at rotating and tends to give up back door buckets.  

Only Wilson in that lineup is solid defensively.

We may score 85 with that lineup, but would lose 92-85 to Depaul.

I know right ? Nobody has a clue. Who wouldn't prefer a 69-57 loss to butler instead of that?

[ATL MU Warrior]

This is something I've said every time we're chasing points at the end.  Derrick can't be on the floor when we need to score because not only is he not a threat, there is no sense of urgency in his play. 

When you think about it, he can't be in when we're ahead in a close game, either, since we can't afford to have him get fouled.

Except he was on the floor at the end of regulation when we mde the run and tied the game.  Other than that inconvenient fact, spot on. 

[brandx]

That's funny because somehow we were able to beat Georgetown on the road with that lineup.  The whole argument of some of these guys being poor defenders is a reach.  Derrick isn't this amazing defender who never gets beat off the bounce and totally shuts his guy down. See Thames, Xavier.  Carson, Jahi.  

It is clearly evident is that the team is significantly handicapped offensively.  

I would add Arcidiacono, Ryan to the list except DW wasn't trusted to guard him.

[Earl Tatum]

Glad to see J-Wil play aggressive and D-Gard Excellent. Wish Mayo would be consistent. Taylor big help.
Now we have to get the coach straightened out. Burton has been a non-factor and we need JJJ to get it going
by tourney time.

[Earl Tatum]

Ryan A and Carson are best I've seen this year. RA no. 1.

[forgetful]

That's funny because somehow we were able to beat Georgetown on the road with that lineup.  The whole argument of some of these guys being poor defenders is a reach.  Derrick isn't this amazing defender who never gets beat off the bounce and totally shuts his guy down. See Thames, Xavier.  Carson, Jahi.  

It is clearly evident is that the team is significantly handicapped offensively.  

Thames and Carson scored their points shooting over the top of him, not by beating him off the bounce.  

We are handicapped offensively.  The best thing that could happen to this team is if Jamil would repeated attack the rim off the bounce.  Also, get Oxtule out, too much in the paint.  Its clogging up the lane and limiting penetration.  Switch to Taylor/Ox or Taylor/Otule.  Taylor is capable of shooting from outside so can function more in the mold of Crowder/Butler.

Would also like to see us try.  

Dawson
Mayo
Juan
Jamil
Taylor

Using Juan instead of Burton here solely for defense, if Burton's defense can be trusted put him in at the 3/4 with Jamil.  This would open the lane for a lot of attacks off the bounce with Dawson/Mayo/Jamil (and Burton if used).

Legitimate threads from 3 in Dawson/Mayo/Jamil and Taylor.

[NersEllenson]

Except he was on the floor at the end of regulation when we mde the run and tied the game.  Other than that inconvenient fact, spot on. 

ATL - Know you love Derrick, but....did Derrick create the amazing looks for Todd Mayo, like you saw Ryan A do for his teammates - dishing off for dunks, etc.?

Todd Mayo single handidly took over the game, and created his own looks basically.  Derrick did nothing to help Mayo get off.

[BallBoy]

ATL - Know you love Derrick, but....did Derrick create the amazing looks for Todd Mayo, like you saw Ryan A do for his teammates - dishing off for dunks, etc.?

Todd Mayo single handidly took over the game, and created his own looks basically.  Derrick did nothing to help Mayo get off.

That is interesting because Wilson was created for an assist on 1 of 3 of Mayo's baskets.  The one being the kick to mayo for a three pointer in the corner.  I haven't been able to find a replay of the three pointer that Mayo was fouled on.

So to say that Wilson had nothing to do with Mayo going off is not a true statement.  Mayo created 2 of the three shots.

[Lennys Tap]

Except he was on the floor at the end of regulation when we mde the run and tied the game.  Other than that inconvenient fact, spot on. 

Yeah, but if Dawson (who in 8 minutes was 1- 4 from the floor, had zero rebounds, zero assists and on at least 2 occasions gave Nova the ball by waiting for it to come to him instead of going after it) would have been in there for the comeback we would have won in regulation. LOL. He got 8 minutes today because he shot 25% and did NOTHING else offensively or defensively to help us. He got every bit what he earned, maybe more. And "Bane" was worse - looked totally lost on both ends in his (thank God) brief stint. Both were net negatives - if neither one played we probably win in regulation, but everyone insists the problem was they didn't see the court enough.

[ATL MU Warrior]

That is interesting because Wilson was created for an assist on 1 of 3 of Mayo's baskets.  The one being the kick to mayo for a three pointer in the corner.  I haven't been able to find a replay of the three pointer that Mayo was fouled on.

So to say that Wilson had nothing to do with Mayo going off is not a true statement.  Mayo created 2 of the three shots.

Derrick also handed off the ball to Todd when he was fouled on the 3.

Whatever, another loss and another 'scoop meltdown over Derrick.

Almost total ignoring of the real reasons we lost this game.  Defense (interior and lazy 3 point closeouts) and rebounding.  Oh, and we can't shoot.  I somehow always forget that one.

[We R Final Four]

Whenever the other team has a line up on the floor that requires Gardner or Otule to chase them on the perimeter, it is a disadvantage for MU, regardless of what is happening on the offensive end.  

.....and whenever the other team has a smaller lineup on the floor who are trying to defend Gardner and OTule, it is an advantage for MU, regardless of what is happening on the defensive end.
Nova did a great job on getting those two in poor defensive spots late in the shot clock. We punished them inside the paint. So goes the quandary of Gardner especially. However, Buzz is not going to change this the next time we play them.

[Lennys Tap]

ATL - Know you love Derrick, but....did Derrick create the amazing looks for Todd Mayo, like you saw Ryan A do for his teammates - dishing off for dunks, etc.?

Todd Mayo single handidly took over the game, and created his own looks basically.  Derrick did nothing to help Mayo get off.

Nobody is saying that Derrick is Ryan A - or that Jamil is Bell, for that matter. Should we bench them for John D and Burton because of that? Do you think Dawson and Bane are as good as Ryan A and Bell?

[Nevada233]

I would add Arcidiacono, Ryan to the list except DW wasn't trusted to guard him.

add Cullen Neal and Manigat off creighton to the list.....

i wish derrick graduated last year...

[Nevada233]

Thames and Carson scored their points shooting over the top of him, not by beating him off the bounce.  

We are handicapped offensively.  The best thing that could happen to this team is if Jamil would repeated attack the rim off the bounce.  Also, get Oxtule out, too much in the paint.  Its clogging up the lane and limiting penetration.  Switch to Taylor/Ox or Taylor/Otule.  Taylor is capable of shooting from outside so can function more in the mold of Crowder/Butler.

Would also like to see us try.  

Dawson
Mayo
Juan
Jamil
Taylor

Using Juan instead of Burton here solely for defense, if Burton's defense can be trusted put him in at the 3/4 with Jamil.  This would open the lane for a lot of attacks off the bounce with Dawson/Mayo/Jamil (and Burton if used).

Legitimate threads from 3 in Dawson/Mayo/Jamil and Taylor.

Juan has taken 10 steps backward this year.....

[downtown85]

That lineup would give up over 90 to Depaul.  Gardner is our worst post defender.  Dawson may be our worst perimeter defender.  Mayo can play solid defense, but gambles too much and then gives up easy scores.  Taylor is not completely mobile yet and is poor at rotating and tends to give up back door buckets.  

Only Wilson in that lineup is solid defensively.

We may score 85 with that lineup, but would lose 92-85 to Depaul.

I don't think anyone is saying we should play De. Wilson 0 minutes.   I just think he should get 15 minutes or so.  Gardner had 39 against Villanova and did a pretty good job on their bigs.  He is not great but he made fewer mistakes than Steve Taylor.  I am not sure you were watching the same game.  

[BallBoy]

Derrick also handed off the ball to Todd when he was fouled on the 3.

Whatever, another loss and another 'scoop meltdown over Derrick.

Almost total ignoring of the real reasons we lost this game.  Defense (interior and lazy 3 point closeouts) and rebounding.  

I thought that was the case but I didn't want to state for a fact since I couldn't remember.  I believe this shows Mayo did everything on his own and Wilson did not contribute.  He also let someone who he wasn't guarding score.  His 7 assists were really turnovers that happened to fall in his teams hands.  His six points were bad passes which happened to luckily fall into the basket.  

[NersEllenson]

That is interesting because Wilson was created for an assist on 1 of 3 of Mayo's baskets.  The one being the kick to mayo for a three pointer in the corner.  I haven't been able to find a replay of the three pointer that Mayo was fouled on.

So to say that Wilson had nothing to do with Mayo going off is not a true statement.  Mayo created 2 of the three shots.

I was at the game sitting courtside right where Mayo made the next to impossible 3 from the baseline...it was a highly contested look, degree of difficulty was off the charts.  Hardly a nice drive, draw and dish for a clean look at the 3.

Yeah, but if Dawson (who in 8 minutes was 1- 4 from the floor, had zero rebounds, zero assists and on at least 2 occasions gave Nova the ball by waiting for it to come to him instead of going after it) would have been in there for the comeback we would have won in regulation. LOL. He got 8 minutes today because he shot 25% and did NOTHING else offensively or defensively to help us. He got every bit what he earned, maybe more. And "Bane" was worse - looked totally lost on both ends in his (thank God) brief stint. Both were net negatives - if neither one played we probably win in regulation, but everyone insists the problem was they didn't see the court enough.

Really?  Saw Derrick make a couple of ridiculous turnovers, travel late in regulation.  And Dawson's 3 points in 8 minutes equaled half of Derrick's output in 36 minutes.  Perhaps if Dawson got 36 minutes he would have multiplied is scoring by 4 times, and given us 13 points...sure would have helped...and he's shown he can score 12 in 30 minutes at Georgetown.

Nonetheless Lenny - you can keep burying your head in the sand and thinking the teams struggles don't have anything to do with Derrick getting max minutes.  I'm sure at the outset of the season you expected us to be 11-9 with no wins over Top 50 teams.  Clearly Gardner is a disappointment with 29 and 13 in 39 minutes, Mayo hasn't stepped up his game, and Jamil continues to struggle and not be able to build on last season, all because they regressed over the summer.

[Dreadman24]

Seriously, what does Buzz see in Derrick Wilson? Does anybody know?

[forgetful]

I don't think anyone is saying we should play De. Wilson 0 minutes.   I just think he should get 15 minutes or so.  Gardner had 39 against Villanova and did a pretty good job on their bigs.  He is not great but he made fewer mistakes than Steve Taylor.  I am not sure you were watching the same game.  

Gardner is awful at help defense in the post.  He does not commit to help defense, rather stays with his man.  He is also poor on rotations.

Taylor I don't fully consider yet when referring to post defenders, he is still getting back into rhythm in the game and we don't have enough minutes to evaluate him with this year.

And some people have said D. Wilson should get 0 minutes.  I have never said he should get 40, I have been very supportive of Dawson when he does well but equally supportive of Wilson when he does well.  

[royceda5 9]

If jake doesn't score in the first five minutes he should see nothin but the bench, he doesn't do anything else and shouldn't be on scholarship. Very frustrating when he's in the game.

[BallBoy]

And Dawson's 3 points in 8 minutes equaled half of Derrick's output in 36 minutes.  Perhaps if Dawson got 36 minutes he would have multiplied is scoring by 4 times, and given us 13 points...sure would have helped...and he's shown he can score 12 in 30 minutes at Georgetown.

Wilson had 7 assists.  Dawson had 0.  Nuff said. 

[NersEllenson]

Wilson had 7 assists.  Dawson had 0.  Nuff said. 

And Derrick Wilson's record as running the point for 30+ minutes per game is 10-9.  John Dawson's:  1-0.  On the road too.

And Derrick Wilson's assists aren't things of beauty in any way such as what Nova's PG did today.  I don't recall 1 GOOD look Derrick got for a teammate through a drive and dish scenario, or even in forcing action in transition.

[Class71]

Lots of reasons why we lost but the team showed heart and will improve. This game could have been won with Steve and John in the game for longer periods and/or erasing a couple of bad passes. Hopefully the coach will play the players more who can win.

Another option to win is motivate the hell out of our best guard so he plays 100% for the full game. It is painful to watch his talent be wasted due to a motivation/focus issue. Few people have his ability.  Come on Todd get your act together, your team needs you. Buzz give him the chance, give him minutes and give him a kick in the butt to get it together.  Todd if not now when, if not you who?

[Lennys Tap]

Really?  Saw Derrick make a couple of ridiculous turnovers, travel late in regulation.  And Dawson's 3 points in 8 minutes equaled half of Derrick's output in 36 minutes.  Perhaps if Dawson got 36 minutes he would have multiplied is scoring by 4 times, and given us 13 points...sure would have helped...and he's shown he can score 12 in 30 minutes at Georgetown.

Nonetheless Lenny - you can keep burying your head in the sand and thinking the teams struggles don't have anything to do with Derrick getting max minutes.  I'm sure at the outset of the season you expected us to be 11-9 with no wins over Top 50 teams.  Clearly Gardner is a disappointment with 29 and 13 in 39 minutes, Mayo hasn't stepped up his game, and Jamil continues to struggle and not be able to build on last season, all because they regressed over the summer.

Your still missing my point, Ners. I don't think that Derrick's 6 points, 5 rebound, 7 assists, 3 turnover line is good (though it's not terrible). Or that we'll hardly ever have the edge at point guard when we line up against top 150 teams. We are hurting there, no disagreement. But right now (though I really like his potential) I don't think Dawson is the answer. If he's shooting well he's an asset, but what else does he do? He gets very few assists and almost no rebounds. A loose ball has to land in his arms for him to get it.

Nobody around here was very excited about our center when his name was Dwight Burke. He was usually inferior to the guy he lined up against. That didn't make Pat Hazel necessarily a better alternative. We didn't lose today's game due to offense. I haven't seen the numbers but my guess is that Derrick quarterbacked a very efficient one today. Defense and rebounding were our Achilles heel today, and those are not John Dawson's strongest suits. Or do you disagree?

[MU82]

3.   Gift call at the end of regulation.   Refs spent the entire overtime compensating.

Please tell me you're not even kind of sort of suggesting that the refs cost MU this game, given that weak foul that let Mayo shoot the tying 3 FTs followed by a worst-call-of-the-season candidate that wiped out Nova's winning hoop.

Had those plays been called against Marquette, we'd be hating on the refs so majorly we'd be ignoring all the crappy play by our Warriors and the questionable coaching decisions by Buzz.

[willie warrior]

A couple questions. I got home late and only saw the OT.

1. Did Dawson foul out

2. As their PG ran wild in OT, why wasn't our defensive specialist PG guarding him? Why is he even in the game if not for his defense?

Becase our Lock Down PG can't guard.

[willie warrior]

I think the thoughts are simple.

Jake, Chris and Derrick should rarely see the floor

Davante, Jamil and Todd should rarely see the bench

Gardner and Mayo were the only two who showed up today. Ja. Wilson with his ole D not much.

[willie warrior]

So for as much credit as Buzz gets (deservedly so) for guys who develop under him (Butler, Blue, Crowder), there has to be some balance for guys that regress.  

J. Wilson, and O'Tule are certainly less productive than last year and if nothing else have not progressed. They needed to progress to compensate for the losses from last season and have not done so.

Everybody's boy, Otule had ZERO rebounds. ZERO. The tallest guy on the floor.

[madtownwarrior]

Blasphemy...

Becase our Lock Down PG can't guard.

[willie warrior]

Thames and Carson scored their points shooting over the top of him, not by beating him off the bounce.  

We are handicapped offensively.  The best thing that could happen to this team is if Jamil would repeated attack the rim off the bounce.  Also, get Oxtule out, too much in the paint.  Its clogging up the lane and limiting penetration.  Switch to Taylor/Ox or Taylor/Otule.  Taylor is capable of shooting from outside so can function more in the mold of Crowder/Butler.

Would also like to see us try.  

Dawson
Mayo
Juan
Jamil
Taylor

Using Juan instead of Burton here solely for defense, if Burton's defense can be trusted put him in at the 3/4 with Jamil.  This would open the lane for a lot of attacks off the bounce with Dawson/Mayo/Jamil (and Burton if used).

Legitimate threads from 3 in Dawson/Mayo/Jamil and Taylor.

Forgetful--your dislike for Gardner shows up in every post. How can you "try" a lineup with Juan in there and exclude Gardner, the best offensive threat we have? You post said "we are handicapped offensively" so your solution is to exclude Gardner?

[willie warrior]

Gardner is awful at help defense in the post.  He does not commit to help defense, rather stays with his man.  He is also poor on rotations.

Taylor I don't fully consider yet when referring to post defenders, he is still getting back into rhythm in the game and we don't have enough minutes to evaluate him with this year.

And some people have said D. Wilson should get 0 minutes.  I have never said he should get 40, I have been very supportive of Dawson when he does well but equally supportive of Wilson when he does well.  

Forgetful with his hate woody for Gardner Gardner rotates plenty, especially in Buzz's stupid rotation up top on D. This puts him/as well as Otule out of position. Forgetful is forgetful about that.

[chapman]

And Derrick Wilson's record as running the point for 30+ minutes per game is 10-9.  John Dawson's:  1-0.  On the road too.

And Derrick Wilson's assists aren't things of beauty in any way such as what Nova's PG did today.  I don't recall 1 GOOD look Derrick got for a teammate through a drive and dish scenario, or even in forcing action in transition.

Yep, Mayo draining an off balance three and taking the bailout passes after Wilson dribbles around and gets stuck then sinking a shot off of it.  Quite the assists.  Of course now the box score is used to try to defend him, but when the box score is bad it's right back to him doing amazing things that can't be shown in the box score.

[pbiflyer]

Game:

MU missed 10 free throws, including three front ends of one/one.
MU missed 8 shots from two feet.
Jake had no points, DWil/others got burned by Archie.  Mayo scored final MU 10 points in regulation, but that bad pass to start OT really set a bad tone. 

Thats ball game.

Kudos to Gardner.  29 and 13 and fought like hell.  

Look, if you are going to use facts, reason,  and common sense, you will have to stop posting here.

[NersEllenson]

Your still missing my point, Ners. I don't think that Derrick's 6 points, 5 rebound, 7 assists, 3 turnover line is good (though it's not terrible). Or that we'll hardly ever have the edge at point guard when we line up against top 150 teams. We are hurting there, no disagreement. But right now (though I really like his potential) I don't think Dawson is the answer. If he's shooting well he's an asset, but what else does he do? He gets very few assists and almost no rebounds. A loose ball has to land in his arms for him to get it.

Nobody around here was very excited about our center when his name was Dwight Burke. He was usually inferior to the guy he lined up against. That didn't make Pat Hazel necessarily a better alternative. We didn't lose today's game due to offense. I haven't seen the numbers but my guess is that Derrick quarterbacked a very efficient one today. Defense and rebounding were our Achilles heel today, and those are not John Dawson's strongest suits. Or do you disagree?

I simply believe Dawson's offensive abilities, and what those do not only for John, but his teammates as well, negate the slight negative Dawson might present at this time from a defensive perspective compared to Derrick.  I also believe strongly that Dawson is a better passer than Derrick, and sees the floor better - and his assists are more of a what an assist truly should be - you create a good* look for a teammate based on your action. 

I cannot stress enough how hard it is to play basketball 4 on 5 at the high major level - and as Buzz has conceded this point - the makeup you get on the defensive end better be truly, truly, elite/lockdown - and the defense of Derrick and Jake aren't elite, though their defense may be slightly better than John and Todd.

[forgetful]

Forgetful--your dislike for Gardner shows up in every post. How can you "try" a lineup with Juan in there and exclude Gardner, the best offensive threat we have? You post said "we are handicapped offensively" so your solution is to exclude Gardner?

Because the point of that lineup is to go with what has worked for us in the past, a true 4 out 1 in lineup where everyone is technically a threat to shoot the three or drive. 

Gardner is not a true threat from outside and would have to post up, that would be a great offense at times, but would like to see us use the 4 out 1 in lineup where the 1 is often at the perimeter threatening to drive.

I don't love Juan in that lineup, but was looking for more defensive intensity and rebounding.  Juan brings that and the lineup has enough offensive fire power so that Gardner is not necessary.  Bring Gardner in for Juan and swap in Derrick for Dawson.  That keeps one defensive stopper in at all times.  Derrick then becomes the intensity/rebounding/defense.

The key is that the lineups have to be balanced on O and on D.  As far as hatred for Gardner, you can go through the posts and I have freely admitted that I am extra hard on Gardner sometimes irrationally, because I think he can be even better than he is.  He is not good on D and is poor on rotations, if you don't see that you are blind.

He has improved, but has a long way to go.  I am very harsh on him because of his great potential.

[jesmu84]

I simply believe Dawson's offensive abilities, and what those do not only for John, but his teammates as well, negate the slight negative Dawson might present at this time from a defensive perspective compared to Derrick.  I also believe strongly that Dawson is a better passer than Derrick, and sees the floor better - and his assists are more of a what an assist truly should be - you create a good* look for a teammate based on your action. 

I cannot stress enough how hard it is to play basketball 4 on 5 at the high major level - and as Buzz has conceded this point - the makeup you get on the defensive end better be truly, truly, elite/lockdown - and the defense of Derrick and Jake aren't elite, though their defense may be slightly better than John and Todd.

I agree with you Ners. I just think in this game tonight, Buzz saw the offense being successful enough with Derrick that he didn't need Dawson and thought the team needed the possible slight defensive boost that Derrick brings. If our offense would have had trouble, and Buzz wouldn't have played Dawson, I would have been pissed.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

That's funny because somehow we were able to beat Georgetown on the road with that lineup.  The whole argument of some of these guys being poor defenders is a reach.  Derrick isn't this amazing defender who never gets beat off the bounce and totally shuts his guy down. See Thames, Xavier.  Carson, Jahi.  

It is clearly evident is that the team is significantly handicapped offensively.  

Actually, the lineup was:

1: Dawson
2: Thomas
3: J Wilson
4: Taylor
5: Gardner

Mayo barely played. He just hit the game tier

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I didn't see the game. Can someone please explain to me how Nova got 13 offensive boards and no one is upset about it? We should have destroyed them on the glass!

[Norm]

Because the point of that lineup is to go with what has worked for us in the past, a true 4 out 1 in lineup where everyone is technically a threat to shoot the three or drive. 

Gardner is not a true threat from outside and would have to post up, that would be a great offense at times, but would like to see us use the 4 out 1 in lineup where the 1 is often at the perimeter threatening to drive.

I don't love Juan in that lineup, but was looking for more defensive intensity and rebounding.  Juan brings that and the lineup has enough offensive fire power so that Gardner is not necessary.  Bring Gardner in for Juan and swap in Derrick for Dawson.  That keeps one defensive stopper in at all times.  Derrick then becomes the intensity/rebounding/defense.

The key is that the lineups have to be balanced on O and on D.  As far as hatred for Gardner, you can go through the posts and I have freely admitted that I am extra hard on Gardner sometimes irrationally, because I think he can be even better than he is.  He is not good on D and is poor on rotations, if you don't see that you are blind.

He has improved, but has a long way to go.  I am very harsh on him because of his great potential.

If you think we should bring Gardner in off the bench to spell Juan because Juan is adequate on the offensive end, then I am thankful you're not coaching MU, as Juan has shown no offense this year and I think has scored in only one Big East game so far.

As for D Wilson, in what game has he actually neutralized the guy he was guarding this year? I think his D reputation largely comes from the Wisconsin game a couple years back, but he is not really shutting opponents down on D this year.

[Otule's Glass Eye]

That lineup would give up over 90 to Depaul.  Gardner is our worst post defender.  Dawson may be our worst perimeter defender.  Mayo can play solid defense, but gambles too much and then gives up easy scores.  Taylor is not completely mobile yet and is poor at rotating and tends to give up back door buckets.  

Only Wilson in that lineup is solid defensively.

We may score 85 with that lineup, but would lose 92-85 to Depaul.

Because Derrick and Jake really played some excellent defense in the large amount of minutes they played today.

[jtrash37]

A few tidbits I noticed...

Gardner on James Bell was an awful decision, and it was the unfortunate matchup Gardner was saddled with several possessions in the second half.

The last 5 possessions of regulation and the first 2 of OT, Derrick Wilson let Arcidiacono get him turned and didn't funnel him towards the middle of the D... rather, he let him go sideline/baseline and it was horribly frustrating to watch.

Jake Thomas' worst game in an MU uniform.  Poor passing, poor D, and a blatant unwillingness to shoot until the end of regulation.

[forgetful]

If you think we should bring Gardner in off the bench to spell Juan because Juan is adequate on the offensive end, then I am thankful you're not coaching MU, as Juan has shown no offense this year and I think has scored in only one Big East game so far.

As for D Wilson, in what game has he actually neutralized the guy he was guarding this year? I think his D reputation largely comes from the Wisconsin game a couple years back, but he is not really shutting opponents down on D this year.

Gardner and Taylor were the interchangeable ones, not Juan.  Juan would swap with Burton as I specifically mentioned in the post.  I also emphasized that if Burton can improve his defense even a bit, he would be vastly preferred over Juan.  As that lineup stands, Juan is in there for hustle and defensive intensity. 

The whole point, was that if we want to try something to increase offensive production, I would like to see us go small similar to older MU teams.  The lineup I listed is one recommendation for a go small lineup as opposed to what we are doing with Oxtule.

[jesmu84]

Gardner and Taylor were the interchangeable ones, not Juan.  Juan would swap with Burton as I specifically mentioned in the post.  I also emphasized that if Burton can improve his defense even a bit, he would be vastly preferred over Juan.  As that lineup stands, Juan is in there for hustle and defensive intensity. 

The whole point, was that if we want to try something to increase offensive production, I would like to see us go small similar to older MU teams.  The lineup I listed is one recommendation for a go small lineup as opposed to what we are doing with Oxtule.

Small and push the pace. Dawson, Jake, Mayo, Jamil, STJ. If we want a "mid" pace: Dawson, Jake/Mayo, Jamil, STJ, Gardner.

[BallBoy]

The last 5 possessions of regulation and the first 2 of OT, Derrick Wilson let Arcidiacono get him turned and didn't funnel him towards the middle of the D... rather, he let him go sideline/baseline and it was horribly frustrating to watch.

You must not have watch because Mayo was guarding him.

[jtrash37]

You must not have watch because Mayo was guarding him.

I was 4 rows behind the MU bench, and Mayo was not guarding Arciadiacono, other than off ball screen switches.

I even joked to Diamond Stone about Wilson's lack of focus in funneling his man to the help D. 

BTW, that kid has massive hands and seems pretty keen on MU's offense/style.  He kept telling his friends MU was gonna pull it out.

[Silkk the Shaka]

I was 4 rows behind the MU bench, and Mayo was not guarding Arciadiacono, other than off ball screen switches.

I even joked to Diamond Stone about Wilson's lack of focus in funneling his man to the help D. 

BTW, that kid has massive hands and seems pretty keen on MU's offense/style.  He kept telling his friends MU was gonna pull it out.

Why in the world would you "joke" with Diamond Stone about one of our player's shortcomings? What possible good could come out of that?

[4everwarriors]

Did ya slip him a C note handshake style?

[willie warrior]

Because the point of that lineup is to go with what has worked for us in the past, a true 4 out 1 in lineup where everyone is technically a threat to shoot the three or drive. 

Gardner is not a true threat from outside and would have to post up, that would be a great offense at times, but would like to see us use the 4 out 1 in lineup where the 1 is often at the perimeter threatening to drive.

I don't love Juan in that lineup, but was looking for more defensive intensity and rebounding.  Juan brings that and the lineup has enough offensive fire power so that Gardner is not necessary.  Bring Gardner in for Juan and swap in Derrick for Dawson.  That keeps one defensive stopper in at all times.  Derrick then becomes the intensity/rebounding/defense.

The key is that the lineups have to be balanced on O and on D.  As far as hatred for Gardner, you can go through the posts and I have freely admitted that I am extra hard on Gardner sometimes irrationally, because I think he can be even better than he is.  He is not good on D and is poor on rotations, if you don't see that you are blind.

He has improved, but has a long way to go.  I am very harsh on him because of his great potential.

then maybe you should put that "harshness" where it really belongs  for lack of improvement--JUAN!!!!