I really believe MU is going to the Final Four...

[Dr. Blackheart]

1977 was Al's fifth best team...just sayin'.

[Goose]

Dr. Blackheart

I know Al always downplayed 77 team, but I disagree on that ranking. I can put a couple of teams of ahead of 77, namely the team that lost to Ohio State and 76. Hard pressed for me to go beyond that.

[MU82]

guru, if they make it, the bar is now set for flaunting and taunting.   If  this blessed event occures, bring your 'A' game. 

I just can't believe he "only" picked us to go to the Final Four. What? No championship? How negative!

[BCHoopster]

Dr. Blackheart

I know Al always downplayed 77 team, but I disagree on that ranking. I can put a couple of teams of ahead of 77, namely the team that lost to Ohio State and 76. Hard pressed for me to go beyond that.

I think the team in 1974 was pretty good that lost in the finals to NCSt. and David Thompson,  Ellis, Lucas, Tatum, Walton and Marcus Washington was better than '77

[4th and State]

In short, i'd love to see the past teams with Diener, James, McNeal against Cadougan.  I think we all know what would happen. Also, who covers Jae, Jimmy or Zar?

I believe 3/4 of our teams the past 10 years would beat this years.  Also the big east this year is nothing compared to previous years.  I'm not down playing what this team has done, simply stating i don't believe its our best  when you talk about talent, or athleticism

Top-end talent (top 2-3 players on the team) this team is probably towards the bottom of having a "go-to" guy looking at recent teams.  As far as team depth, there isn't another team in the last 5+ years that can touch this team going 10 players deep.

[muguru]

Holy ****.. are you kidding? I have no problem with anyone believing MU will go to the final four. I do, however, have a problem with you believing it. You started so many threads and made so many posts crapping on this team and their abilities. Unless you seriously think every other team we would play on our way there is awful, I don't believe you can have any faith in this team/players/coach because you've never demonstrated any.

WTH are you talking about?? I have ALWAYS said that this team is more talented than people gave it credit for, and why i was so upset they lost @ Nova. I have NEVER talked down about this team...EVER.

[nyg]

I think the team in 1974 was pretty good that lost in the finals to NCSt. and David Thompson,  Ellis, Lucas, Tatum, Walton and Marcus Washington was better than '77

I agree and if Larry O'Neil had stayed, who knows.

[muguru]

Everyone thinks I'm being too optimistic. Well, look at the regions. Let's say the seeds hold all the way through...to get to the final four MU has to go through a 14, 6, 2, & 1 Seed. In MU's Region that is Davidson, Butler, Miami and Indiana. Not ONE of those teams is the EXACT type of team that MU typically loses to. None of them are pressure teams, none of them have ridiculous length(like a UL), and none of them are particularly great defensive teams. Could MU lose to any of them?? Sure they could. But something just tells me, we are in store for something special this year. To be honest..You couldn't have scripted a better draw for MU if you tried. All those teams(again, if the seeding holds, if not, even better) I'm guessing would want no part of MU. Last year Florida was a nightmare match up for MU their 7 seed be damned. The year before there was just no way they were beating Carolina. This year?? This team has depth, and for once it has size, and those are two vital components in the NCAA tourney. Not to mention experience, and a Sr. PG that is going to be incredibly hungry for one last hurrah.

Just for argument's sake, let's look at the other Regions 14,6,2 & 1 seeds shall we?? In the West it would be Harvard, Arizona, Ohio State and Gonzaga. As much as it pains me to say it, Ohio State is a terrible match up for MU as are Gonzaga's two bigs. I'd rather have their current draw.

In the Midwest there's Valpo, Memphis, Duke, and Louisville. I don't even think this Region needs to be discussed, and it's as simple as that.

In the South..Northwestern St, UCLA, Georgetown, Kansas. This would have been my second choice for path to the Final Four, but to be honest does anyone want to see Van, Junior, Todd etc driving to the whole against Withey and him having about 10 blocks??

Simply put, there is something about this team(aside from talent) that makes me think we are in for something special. Just when people doubt them the most. They rise to the occasion, and it's all their for the taking. If they play like themselves their isn't another team in this region that will stand in their way that makes me shiver like Florida did last year and North Carolina did the year before, and I'm willing to bet you none of the other teams in the upper half of the bracket want to see MU. Not TC, not Cuse, not anyone.

Bring it on....let's get this party started, and gentlemen...enjoy the ride!!!

Disclaimer: I only predicted a Final Four for now until I see who they would play to get to the National Championship game. We'll cross THAT particular bridge when we get there.

Go Marquette!!!

[Silkk the Shaka]

"none of them have ridiculous length(like a UL), and none of them are particularly great defensive teams."

muguru/gomarquette/MU_Iceman - Miami has crazy length & athleticism.  They're 10th in the nation in effective height, while Louisville is 115th.  Indiana is 19th in the nation in the same category.  Indiana is the 19th ranked team in defensive efficiency, while Miami is 22nd.  Not sure what your definition of "particularly great defensive team" is, but neither one is exactly a pushover in that department.  For comparison's sake, we're 164 in effective height and 50th in defensive efficiency.  Love the enthusiasm, but gitchyo facts right.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Dr. Blackheart

I know Al always downplayed 77 team, but I disagree on that ranking. I can put a couple of teams of ahead of 77, namely the team that lost to Ohio State and 76. Hard pressed for me to go beyond that.

Take your pick...I would even add the 1977-78 team as better, which contained almost all of Al's players with a healthy Ulice back, even though Hank coached them. 

1970-71  Al McGuire  28- 1  2- 1 
1971-72  Al McGuire  25- 4  1- 2 
1972-73  Al McGuire  25- 4  2- 1 
1973-74  Al McGuire  26- 5  4- 1 
1974-75  Al McGuire  23- 4  0- 1 
1975-76  Al McGuire  27- 2  2- 1 

[MuMark]

MU has lost this year to ND, Green Bay, Nova, Georgetown, and Bulter....none of them are pressure teams or have tons of length....MU has lost to all kinds of teams this year....Slow down teams like Georgetown, GB and ND...not overly atheltic teams like Green Bay, ND and Butler. Pressure teams like Louisville and Florida....

It only takes one bad game and you are out and against teams like Miami and IU we could play great and still lose since they are much more talented then we are.....

[BCHoopster]

I agree and if Larry O'Neil had stayed, who knows.

That whole era was sick with talent that left early,  MU was like a hoops factory then and could plug the best players in the country every year, much like Kentucky, Duke, now.

[Golden Avalanche]

Wow.  2nd or third worst over the last 10 years?  That doesn't even include the Final Four team, but I'll go ahead and do that for you.  I'd rank 2003 and beyond roster makeup like this:

1.) 2003
2.) 2012 with Otule
3.) 2012 without Otule
4.) 2009 with DJ
5.) 2013
6.) 2011
7.) 2009 without DJ
8.) 2008
9.) 2006
10.) 2007 with McNeal
11.) 2010
12.) 2005 with Diener
13.) 2007 without McNeal
14.) 2004
15.) 2004 without Diener

4th overall opening day roster out of the past 11 years in terms of talent.  We have 5 four stars and a bunch of high three stars, not to mention depth at every position INCLUDING (very importantly, IMO, two true centers).  You don't win the Big East conference without raw talent.  Definitely not the second or third worst.  This team would manhandle 2004 & 2005, and it's depth/height would often be too much for the 2007 & 2008 rosters.  We can't shoot threes, but the narrative that this team lacks talent is a joke.  Next year has a chance to be #1 on this list if every key player stays, Blue, Steve Taylor, and JWilson improve on a normal curve, and we can get some needed three point shooting from one or two of the newcomers which I'm confident we will.... this year has been fun but next year could be badass.  And I don't use that term loosely.

After all that, you're unnatural carnal knowledgeing nuts if you think the 08-09 team is worse than any version of last year's squad. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder so......

[4th and State]

After all that, you're fracking nuts if you think the 08-09 team is worse than any version of last year's squad. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder so......

He's talking about raw talent on the entire roster.  The first guys off the bench in 08-09...Cubi, Acker, Fulce, and Jimmy.

[Skatastrophy]

I have MU picked to go to the FF too.  We're about to streak so hard on these fools, they don't even know.

[BCHoopster]

MU better do what they do not do is make some outside shots, ie.  Juan knock a shot down once in awhile, Lockett even trying it, better for him to do that, then driving to the hoop, that
is a turnover waiting to happen, Blue trying to be more aggressive in the first half, Mayo make a shot, lots of ifs, which they have barely done as a team together, 5 or 6 games, doubt
it, maybe next year.  Forgot, Jamil has to show up in the first half as well.

[Silkk the Shaka]

After all that, you're fracking nuts if you think the 08-09 team is worse than any version of last year's squad. But beauty is in the eye of the beholder so......

The '09 team was 4 deep, granted a very good 4 deep.  Jimmy didn't really come on til after DJ went down and we had no front line or bench.  Last year's squad with Otule was statistically one of the top 5 if not THE best in the nation, with a conference POY who was also easily our best player since Wade, another conference 1st teamer in DJO who was virtually the equivalent of McNeal, and the depth/size/skill/athleticism to make a deep tournament run.  But I'm CRAZY to think they could possibly be more talented than the '09 team?  Okay buddy.

[We R Final Four]

and need to shoot well from outside

....and herein lies the problem.

[mug644]

I also have MU in my Final Four, but with loads of anxiety about having them knock me down on Thursday afternoon.

Seashells and balloons.

[MUHoopsFan2]

....and herein lies the problem.

A major problem. No one can hit a jump shot. And with the wheel they run at the top of the key swinging the ball around the perimeter instead of getting in the paint consistent...you run the offense they run when you can shoot as a team or have decent mid-range pull up shooters.

This will be the key all tournament. If Jamil Wilson is hitting from the outside and god helps us all if TLock FINALLY...hits a shot, and they play Mayo more then you got a chance.

Two major if's...

Anything you can get from Juan is a bonus. No player can benefit more from a productive tournament going into next year imo then he can and perhaps the Freshman Steve Taylor.

[MUHoopsFan2]

The '09 team was 4 deep, granted a very good 4 deep.  Jimmy didn't really come on til after DJ went down and we had no front line or bench.  Last year's squad with Otule was statistically one of the top 5 if not THE best in the nation, with a conference POY who was also easily our best player since Wade, another conference 1st teamer in DJO who was virtually the equivalent of McNeal, and the depth/size/skill/athleticism to make a deep tournament run.  But I'm CRAZY to think they could possibly be more talented than the '09 team?  Okay buddy.

No...they are not. I think they are just different, not better. They have a low post dimension this year they NEVER had since they had Robert Jackson and Scott Merritt in Chris Otule and Devante Gardner.

And they faced a few teams at the right time when they had key guys out and hurt or ineligible that they capitalized on and won those games.

I still dont know who or what this team is on any given night but they do have a true identity and M.O. that bodes well.

MU. They are tough, they unified, they are deep, relentless and interchangeable, being full or heart and character and they are fearless as a team and always locked in and focused as one unit that comes at you on both ends  for 40 minutes.

But the one skill they do not have or they have not shown that you need in the tournament is the big shot ability from a given player on any given possession or to go on prolong streaks and runs.

They are stop and sputter type team. And that will work against some teams until they slap a zone on MU and they are on a night when no one is shooting well.

Yes they can get to the line and find ways to get a shot attempt up, but lack that one true go to guy. The one guy killing them is Lockett.

For the minutes Buzz plays him they need more from him, no lie. Espeically if you refuse to play or get anything from Mayo.

I would rather give Taylor his minutes but he does defend, but so what. They all do. In fact, Mayo might be as good a defender as any of them man to man.

Next year give me just two cats who can replace those two and shoot the lights out and its all over...you will get your Final Four team. That is all they are missing....

[MUHoopsFan2]

WTH are you talking about?? I have ALWAYS said that this team is more talented than people gave it credit for, and why i was so upset they lost @ Nova. I have NEVER talked down about this team...EVER.

No one is crapping on their ability...but they lack that one skill you must have to go deep in the tourney.  You gotta hit shots! Its that simple....

Even Syracuse has to. In years past we always had atleast two guys who can hit the 3 ball if left open or if they got hot.

This year I thought Lockett could shoot but his shot is poor. And they do not play Mayo long enough before yanking him and Jamil has not started until recently and he is my X-Factor.

I do not like when they work side to side either with the length and ballhandlers they have. they should go straight to the rack and draw and kick.

You must have a PG who can score in volumes in this tournament from all over the floor. Buzz has gotten the best out of what he has and they have given him the best of what they got which is why they are Co Big East Champs.

But that is over now. Forget the past! This is a new day. Elimination style hoops. Now who steps up and who comes to play!?

That simple...who takes the knocks and punches and answers the bell and their critics and works it out game after game? Every champion and every #1 seed has flaws much less a #4 seed.

Recognize it, embrace it, deal with it, and correct it... Hit....Some....Shots! Period.
That will open everything else wide open. I am concerned about the rebounding and defense as well but no so much so if they press 3/4 quarter court all game and keep the heat on.

I would press press press...and shuffle guys in and out. Can't get the Bigs in foul trouble. Get Vander, Jamil and Juan off early and see where Chris is at and lets go!

[Goose]

Dr. Blackheart

The 73-74 and 74-75 teams I struggle to say were better than the 77 team. I will die believing Al downplaying that team's place in all time greats as a con job. I can be completely off base, but saying the 77 teams was not over stacked with talent to me is like saying Hank was the guy that did that all coaching for Al. Great stories that I believe were cons by Al.

[Goose]

BCHoopster

74 was very good team and had McNeil had stayed I would agree with you. Bo and Earl were young guys and not in their prime at MU yet, Lloyd was also young and Washington was not elite player IMO. 77 had more depth, upperclassmen and big, big, big time talent. To me 74 was a bonus making NC game as that team was a year or two away from greatness.

[keefe]

Dr. Blackheart

I know Al always downplayed 77 team, but I disagree on that ranking. I can put a couple of teams of ahead of 77, namely the team that lost to Ohio State and 76. Hard pressed for me to go beyond that.

Goose - I would put any of the teams 70-74 ahead of the 76-77 team. That damn ABA really hurt us.