NCAA Tournament 2015

[ChicosBailBonds]

He was being sarcastic, Chicos.

He needs to use teal in his twitter

[ChicosBailBonds]

The difference is the ACC has a history of success. Everyone views us as the not Big East. We're the conference with a big name and small game. When our teams dominated in non-con, there was a ton of "get back to me in March" commentary. Well, it's March, and we didn't answer the bell. And no matter how well we do next year, this weekend will be all anyone remembers.

The bell is not done tolling....go Butler, go Xavier

[Johnny B]

Novas in the acc there 5 seed. Just sayin

[ChicosBailBonds]

Novas in the acc there 5 seed. Just sayin

Probably a 3 seed.  Notre Dame was the 3 seed in the ACC this year....the same team that is in OT right now with Butler.

[Johnny B]

Butlers done. One team left , wow the big east was just handled today, face facts this conference hasn't proved its worth with the big boys at all, least Not this year. What a disappointment.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Butlers done. One team left , wow the big east was just handled today, face facts this conference hasn't proved its worth with the big boys at all, least Not this year. What a disappointment.

They proved it all year long.  NCAA tournament is a crapshoot...that's why two 3 seeds go down on the first day, it's part of the deal.  Anything can and does happen in March.  Never going to change and judging a team or conference based on 2 hours worth of work and wiping out the previous 5 months, is beyond silly.  I realize people do it, but Mark Few, Coach K, etc were right...beyond silly.

[brewcity77]

Never going to change and judging a team or conference based on 2 hours worth of work and wiping out the previous 5 months, is beyond silly sadly reality.

FIFY

[mattyv1908]

FIFY

One of the numerous things I think you're incorrect on and one of the few things I agree with Chicos completely.

[jesmu84]

They proved it all year long.  NCAA tournament is a crapshoot...that's why two 3 seeds go down on the first day, it's part of the deal.  Anything can and does happen in March.  Never going to change and judging a team or conference based on 2 hours worth of work and wiping out the previous 5 months, is beyond silly.  I realize people do it, but Mark Few, Coach K, etc were right...beyond silly.

While I 100% agree with you, here's the problem... how do you address the situation? Because, on the whole, the perception of a team/league/coach is based on March success, at least among the general public. And, when it comes down to it (much like politics), that's all that matters.

[mattyv1908]

While I 100% agree with you, here's the problem... how do you address the situation? Because, on the whole, the perception of a team/league/coach is based on March success, at least among the general public. And, when it comes down to it (much like politics), that's all that matters.

Fortunately none of the things you bring up matter at all to the selection committee.  Prior tournament success/failure is not at all a factor when determining who is given an at large invitation.

[jesmu84]

Fortunately none of the things you bring up matter at all to the selection committee.  Prior tournament success/failure is not at all a factor when determining who is given an at large invitation.

I wasn't referring to NCAA tourney invitations. I was referring to what happens over the entire season, like Chico's (i think) was.

[brandx]

'Nova was really the only team from the BE in the top 16 this year and they ran into the worst possible type team for them to face. Quickness outside and power inside.

I have said here several times that I didn't think the ratings and stats showed the reality of the conference this year. We had one good team and a lot of mediocrity. We had 6 in the field only because it was the same situation in many other conferences.

For people to say we were the 2nd best conference never made sense. The Big 12 was clearly better. The ACC had 4 or 5 teams better than any in the BE other than Nova.

Even the B10 was better. UW > Nova. Maryland > Butler. MSU > Georgetown.....


So it's not just March success.

[brewcity77]

One of the numerous things I think you're incorrect on and one of the few things I agree with Chicos completely.

Perception is formed in March. No one cares that the Big East went 7-1 against the ACC in non-con, they care that we went 0-2 today. I don't like or agree with it, but these games are where reputations are formed and conference strength is determined.

Is it right? No. But it is still what the media and average fan uses as the measuring stick.

[jesmu84]

Perception is formed in March. No one cares that the Big East went 7-1 against the ACC in non-con, they care that we went 0-2 today. I don't like or agree with it, but these games are where reputations are formed and conference strength is determined.

Is it right? No. But it is still what the media and average fan uses as the measuring stick.

Yup. Same thing I was stating.

[brewcity77]

Many fans and even media don't really pay any attention to college basketball until March. Other than the die-hards, they certainly don't pay much attention until late January or February after the bowl season and the NFL has wound down. So when it comes to the two biggest programs in the Big East, this is what they've seen since their respective last Final Fours:

Villanova Since 2010

2010: Beat (15) Robert Morris in OT, Lose to (10) St. Mary's
2011: Lose to (8) George Mason
2013: Lose to (8) North Carolina
2014: Beat (15) Milwaukee, Lose to (7) Connecticut
2015: Beat (16) Lafayette, Lose to (10) NC State

Georgetown Since 2008

2008: Beat (15) UMBC, Lose to (10) Davidson
2010: Lose to (14) Ohio
2011: Lose to (11) VCU
2012: Beat (14) Belmont, Lose to (11) NC State
2013: Lose to (15) Florida Gulf Coast
2015: Beat (13) Eastern Washington, Lose to (5) Utah

So since the last time those teams really made noise, they are 7-11. The best win either has had is Georgetown over a 13-seed. 7 of the 11 losses came to double-digit seeds. 9 of the 11 losses came to a lower-seeded team. Once is chance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is a trend.

Call it a crapshoot if you want, but all that 98% of the public sees is them crapping the bed.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Many fans and even media don't really pay any attention to college basketball until March. Other than the die-hards, they certainly don't pay much attention until late January or February after the bowl season and the NFL has wound down. So when it comes to the two biggest programs in the Big East, this is what they've seen since their respective last Final Fours:

You may be right, but also may be over-valuing the importance of what 'most people' think.

[brewcity77]

You may be right, but also may be over-valuing the importance of what 'most people' think.

All I'm saying is this is the national perception of our league. We don't have schools like Syracuse, UConn, and Louisville to hang our hats on anymore. If this league is going to be considered anything more than mid-major, we need teams to deliver in March. Honestly, we need our BEST teams to deliver in March. Until that happens, all the articles about how overrated this league is, all the radio troll segments from Van Pelt about how happy they'll be when we crash and burn, all the talk on the Selection Show from the Gottlieb types about how overseeded the Big East is, and all the mid-major talk from the P5 conferences will continue.

And the more we protest and disagree, the more we try to defend the league, the more they'll laugh at us with the dismissive "get back to me in March" comments.

[GGGG]

For the second year in a row, the Big East champion, and tournament champion, have failed to get to the Sweet 16.  For the second year in a row, all Big East wins were where they were the higher seed.  (No upset wins, but a few upset losses.)

The tournament is how you determine a champion.  That's what you play for.  It's not a crapshoot because the more favored teams usually win - that is a statistical fact.  The conference reputation is deservedly built during these three weeks.

And right now it is rightfully down for the Big East.

[brewcity77]

Just saw on Twitter that Marquette has more tournament wins since 2010 (7) than Villanova and Georgetown do combined (5).

This is a huge part of the problem we are facing. There are three teams in this league that currently have a reputation for success in March. One of them is still dancing, one lost in overtime last night, and one is at the bottom of the standings. We need our name programs to win. And if 'Nova and Georgetown can't do it, then I sure hope Wojo can coach in March.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Preseason, we thought this would be a down year for the BE, even to the extent that quite a few here thought MU could slip into the top half of the conference. Butler was considered a train wreck, CU lost a lot of senior talent, Georgetown had a lot of freshmen, X had to rely on freshmen, Providence lost a good group of seniors and Dunn was coming back after two seasons of surgeries, DePaul was DePaul, SH had a great recruiting class but was unproven, MU was cleaning up after the Dead Poets' Society, and Nova essentially had the same team that flamed out coming back. OOC and in conference, the Big East did better than expectations. The BET was better, and the teams signed some good recruiting classes.

Post-season, Fox Sports (strangely, a B1G deal may help here), the bottom of the conference with two major TV markets and some historically good programs were all major disappointments. Is the round robin play with the smaller conference really good for NCAA success or are we just talking to ourselves? Does the BE need to expand to get more teams in and increase in season competitiveness? (I would say I think the new conference, overall, has also led to a weaker one for other Olympic sports with the loss of Louisville, UCONN, ND and Cuse).

Time for further adjustments but overall, the basketball side performed as expected going into the season with the new teams outperforming and the old teams underperforming. The recruiting classes give some hope. The urban nature of the conference with so many NBA markets and arenas is the best selling point of the conference. Need to exploit that and build off of that.

[ecompt]

If he was only a good recruiter, he wouldn't be going 33-2 with his team this year. 

Final Four was 2009....maybe in today's day and age that is eons ago. 

In today's society, six years in college ball is eons. And I could be wrong, but going 33-2 with that talent in that conference was 99% due to recruiting. Is Calipari 36-0 due to his coaching or recruiting? Is Roy Williams winning because of coaching or recruiting? Wright has had terrific talent the past five trips to the Dance and has lost to teams with less talent. I completely agree the tournament is a crapshoot but when you crap the bed as many times as Nova and Gtown have something smells.

[statnik]

They proved it all year long.  NCAA tournament is a crapshoot...that's why two 3 seeds go down on the first day, it's part of the deal.  Anything can and does happen in March.  Never going to change and judging a team or conference based on 2 hours worth of work and wiping out the previous 5 months, is beyond silly.  I realize people do it, but Mark Few, Coach K, etc were right...beyond silly.

Six teams creates a big sample size, so when most of the conference disappoints relatively speaking, it's harder to use the 'crapshoot' argument.  Both the Big 12 and Big East were overseeded imo, and the Pac 12 and some of the Big Ten teams were underrated.

[ChicosBailBonds]

While I 100% agree with you, here's the problem... how do you address the situation? Because, on the whole, the perception of a team/league/coach is based on March success, at least among the general public. And, when it comes down to it (much like politics), that's all that matters.

You keep moving forward.  What other options are there?  Fold up, stop playing basketball?  It's the U.S., we have attention spans that last 4 seconds, which means everyone gets in a tizzy in March, but then everyone forgets it in April.  There will be years when this conference finishes 5th to 7th and we have two teams make deep runs, and years where we finish 2nd and no teams make a deep run.   Just the way it is.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Six teams creates a big sample size, so when most of the conference disappoints relatively speaking, it's harder to use the 'crapshoot' argument.  Both the Big 12 and Big East were overseeded imo, and the Pac 12 and some of the Big Ten teams were underrated.

UCLA shouldn't even be in the tournament and because SMU pulled a Davidson to epic proportions, they advance....it's that quirky that crazy things happen.  Now all of a sudden people say the Pac 12 was underrated....why....because SMU crap their pants in the last minute?

Iowa State was playing some of the best basketball in the country in the last three weeks...they had a struggle for 2 hours and lost by 1....now all of a sudden they are overrated?

I get all the arguments and perceptions are reality in many cases, but it also proves the absurdity of it all.  Half this country can't identify New York state on a map, why should we be surprised they can't figure out that the course of what happens over 30 seconds of a game doesn't determine the world order in college hoops either.

[GGGG]

Post-season, Fox Sports (strangely, a B1G deal may help here), the bottom of the conference with two major TV markets and some historically good programs were all major disappointments. Is the round robin play with the smaller conference really good for NCAA success or are we just talking to ourselves? Does the BE need to expand to get more teams in and increase in season competitiveness?

These are good questions.  I think people like the true round robin because it seems "fair."  But I think you are seeing why conferences expand.  To get more teams, more games, etc.

I think the membership isn't going to want to divide the television contract another two ways, but I wouldn't be opposed to expansion.