The Petito Story

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I enjoy vengeance and for evil people to suffer excruciating pain. So yes, it does serve a purpose.  Just as ice cream, beer, and watching Taken serves a purpose.  If I was the father of one of those gymnasts that Nassar abused and legally there was a way to torture him every day?  Would I object?  Uh.... no.  There are a lot of horrific people out there and there's nothing weird about wishing them ill-will, extreme pain, or hoping they become immediate fertilizer.  This is just my personal opinion.

Im honestly curious,  are you a religious person?

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Why would you hope "everyone" dies a painless death?  Even people like Bundy and Dahmer?  Hitler?  Pol Pot?  Mao?  Stalin? 

Yes.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I enjoy vengeance and for evil people to suffer excruciating pain. So yes, it does serve a purpose.  Just as ice cream, beer, and watching Taken serves a purpose.  If I was the father of one of those gymnasts that Nassar abused and legally there was a way to torture him every day?  Would I object?  Uh.... no.  There are a lot of horrific people out there and there's nothing weird about wishing them ill-will, extreme pain, or hoping they become immediate fertilizer.  This is just my personal opinion.

I find this disgusting.

[Galway Eagle]

I mean I'm a huge believer in natural karma. That's why I said I hope the gators got him. I'm not exactly wishing some crazy torturous death on anyone.

[naginiF]

Im honestly curious,  are you a religious person?

As a VERY not religious person I'll say that I don't know any atheists that would wish "for evil people to suffer excruciating pain". Empathy or morality or compassion or etc shouldn't be attributed to simply being religious. As was discussed in the Texas thread (i think), being religious can and is used to justify non empathetic/moral/compassionate all the time. It is used to motivate empathy/moralistic/compassion all the time too, but religion should not be tied to someone taking, or not taking, the moralistic high road.

[forgetful]

Were you aware of Hae Min Lee before the podcast? It's an extremely interesting story, but I'll admit that never heard of her until I listened to that podcast. Are you generally aware of the missing/murdered women of color before seeing their stories on Dateline and 2020?

Because I think those are very different situations. I think that what we're talking about here is that missing young pretty white women are covered very differently than those who don't fit into that category. Honestly, I'm surprised that there is anybody pushing back against that proposition -- it seems so obvious as to be a truism. People who happened to listen to the Serial podcast (another interesting one is Algorithm) or who happen to watch Dateline and 20/20 will, no doubt, see many stories about missing/murdered women of all races and backgrounds. But, if you don't happen to listen to that podcast or watch those shows, you likely won't get those stories.

Those stories simply don't get blanket coverage across media sources and social network platforms that make them nearly impossible to miss.

Agreed. And this gets looked at over and over again.

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2017/04/13/523769303/what-we-know-and-dont-know-about-missing-white-women-syndrome

This is an old article following a rash of missing minority women in DC that went uncovered and eventually led to congressional investigations.

From the actual research article referenced in the NPR article:

"Based on a multi-method approach using Federal Bureau of Investigation data and data culled from four major online news sources, the results indicate not only that there are, in fact, race and gender disparities consistent with Missing White Woman Syndrome, but that they manifest themselves in two distinct ways: (1) disparities in the threshold issue of whether a missing person receives any media attention at all; and (2) disparities in coverage intensity among the missing persons that do appear in the news."

[dgies9156]

I believe you may be viewing journalism of the past through rosy-hued spectacles.

Some context:

1) Crime draws in readers and viewers. It appeals to our worst instincts and sells ads. Watch the NBC5 news at 10 with the Lovely Allison. She may be syrupy sweet on the outside but this is a newswoman who has no compunction about reading 11.5 minutes a night of crime, punishment and public safety. It sells. Period. Since God invented ink and paper, newspapers have featured crime. I suspect the Eden Chronicle had a first hand account of Cain's murder of Abel, complete with autopsy reports and drawings of how Abel was killed.

2) Journalism had a heyday of sorts in the 1970s and 1980s. There was more focus on objectivity, investigations and as John Vivian, Professor of Journalism at MU used to say, "pursuit of the truth."

3) Today, demographics drives everything. Surveying and statistical analysis is better, so, of course, we know more of what readers and viewers want. The answer: CRIME!!!!

4) The Petito story is an interesting one. She's young and pretty -- he's handsome and they're going to get married and have their whole life in front of them. Gosh, wouldn't we all like to speculate on why he wacked her. Many of us had the same life in front of us and didn't wack our spouse. Question we all like ask, what snapped?

5) There's no morals in the media. Only money!

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

As a VERY not religious person I'll say that I don't know any atheists that would wish "for evil people to suffer excruciating pain". Empathy or morality or compassion or etc shouldn't be attributed to simply being religious. As was discussed in the Texas thread (i think), being religious can and is used to justify non empathetic/moral/compassionate all the time. It is used to motivate empathy/moralistic/compassion all the time too, but religion should not be tied to someone taking, or not taking, the moralistic high road.

I agree with you completely. Not the road I was heading down.

[warriorchick]

In general, how many missing people get the kind of coverage that the Petito story is getting?  One or two a year, if that many?

It's not like there are ten different stories on the night every night about missing white girls and none about any other type of person.

This was an unusual case with some very bizarre circumstances.

[MuggsyB]

I find this disgusting.

And I find the people I mentioned beyond disgusting.   To each his/her own.  We're talking about men responsible for the most heinous acts imaginable FBM. 

[MuggsyB]

Im honestly curious,  are you a religious person?

Not religious but spiritual.  And I believe in Karma.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

And I find the people I mentioned beyond disgusting.   To each his/her own.  We're talking about men responsible for the most heinous acts imaginable FBM. 

I find them disgusting to.

But we need a world with less disgusting things. Disgusting shouldn’t beget more disgusting.

[naginiF]

I agree with you completely. Not the road I was heading down.

Gotcha - I should've let it play out.

[Galway Eagle]

In general, how many missing people get the kind of coverage that the Petito story is getting?  One or two a year, if that many?

It's not like there are ten different stories on the night every night about missing white girls and none about any other type of person.

This was an unusual case with some very bizarre circumstances.

To be fair she was a social media influencer so it's hard to compare to your average Jane doe

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

In general, how many missing people get the kind of coverage that the Petito story is getting?  One or two a year, if that many?

It's not like there are ten different stories on the night every night about missing white girls and none about any other type of person.

This was an unusual case with some very bizarre circumstances.

How many of those one to two stories a year are about women who are not young,  White,  and pretty? I honestly don't know the answer but the only ones I can remember fit the profile.  Maybe my memory is the problem

[MuggsyB]

I find them disgusting to.

But we need a world with less disgusting things. Disgusting shouldn’t beget more disgusting.

I'm going to assume you're not making a moral equivalency between these two "disgusting" examples?  But I respect your opinion on the topic in general, that's fine.  I'm a little out there. Personally, as an animal lover, I would be  cool with all sorts of vengeful acts towards humans.  We've been an abhorrent species for a long time. 

[MuggsyB]

How many of those one to two stories a year are about women who are not young,  White,  and pretty? I honestly don't know the answer but the only ones I can remember fit the profile.  Maybe my memory is the problem

I think you're right when you look at this story in its totality

[JWags85]

To be fair she was a social media influencer so it's hard to compare to your average Jane doe

No she wasn't.  I think you're getting confused by the buzz of her story on social media and her in general.  She had 1000 IG followers.  My sister's dog has 1350 and she's not a mover and shaker.  Her account gained a ton after her disappearance and tons of hashtags popped up on other social media, but its not like she was a social media name before any of this.

[forgetful]

No she wasn't.  I think you're getting confused by the buzz of her story on social media and her in general.  She had 1000 IG followers.  My sister's dog has 1350 and she's not a mover and shaker.  Her account gained a ton after her disappearance and tons of hashtags popped up on other social media, but its not like she was a social media name before any of this.

I was just going to comment similarly. It is more accurate to say she was an aspiring social media individual, who was currently doing quite poorly at it.

Similarly, when this story was first being pushed in media, there was really nothing special about it or unusual. That all came out later, in part because people were drawn to the story.

You'll notice that the double homicide of the lesbian couple that was tied to this has now vanished from the radar.

I'm not sure why people have a hard time acknowledging that the big driver of this is that many in media relate to her because she looks like them. Her being pretty, and white, relates to them and people they know so they take it to heart and are more likely to push the story.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Not religious but spiritual.  And I believe in Karma.

Appreciate the response. You're honestly the first person I've met in the spiritual but not religious camp that subscribes to the eye for an eye kind of mentality.

I've always been fascinated by the concept of karma. I'm no expert on world religions, but my understanding is that the original concept actually had nothing to do with reward/punishment. It was a more simple observation that those who do good tend to become good people. And those who do bad tend to become bad people. There are similar concepts found in most of the major religions. It wasn't until later (though still thousands of years ago) that the concept was attached to cycle of reincarnation and taken a more literal interpretation of those who do good become something good in the next life.

[Galway Eagle]

No she wasn't.  I think you're getting confused by the buzz of her story on social media and her in general.  She had 1000 IG followers.  My sister's dog has 1350 and she's not a mover and shaker.  Her account gained a ton after her disappearance and tons of hashtags popped up on other social media, but its not like she was a social media name before any of this.

I didn't know that the first thing I read about it called her a vlogger so assumed she was a big deal

You'll notice that the double homicide of the lesbian couple that was tied to this has now vanished from the radar.

I'm not sure why people have a hard time acknowledging that the big driver of this is that many in media relate to her because she looks like them. Her being pretty, and white, relates to them and people they know so they take it to heart and are more likely to push the story.

What lesbian couple?

I'll gladly admit that now, I just genuinely thought she was an influencer

[MuggsyB]

Appreciate the response. You're honestly the first person I've met in the spiritual but not religious camp that subscribes to the eye for an eye kind of mentality.

I've always been fascinated by the concept of karma. I'm no expert on world religions, but my understanding is that the original concept actually had nothing to do with reward/punishment. It was a more simple observation that those who do good tend to become good people. And those who do bad tend to become bad people. There are similar concepts found in most of the major religions. It wasn't until later (though still thousands of years ago) that the concept was attached to cycle of reincarnation and taken a more literal interpretation of those who do good become something good in the next life.

Fair points but of course there are also horrible things that happen to good people, and totally innocent children and animals.

I've always struggled with this.  I'm a fan of the reincarnation idea if I could be a Humpback Whale.  A 600 inch vert wouldn't suck. 

[forgetful]

I didn't know that the first thing I read about it called her a vlogger so assumed she was a big deal

What lesbian couple?

I'll gladly admit that now, I just genuinely thought she was an influencer

https://apnews.com/article/utah-b8f6d931ae2d7ac72e0df6992b1d6140

https://www.insideedition.com/officials-say-no-link-between-petitos-disappearance-and-newlyweds-who-were-fatally-shot-in-unsolved

Newly wed couple. Originally investigated as possibly connected as one of the two women worked at the same store that Gabby and her fiancé got in a fight at.

And admittedly I assumed she must be a big social media star too. Found out she wasn't when I saw something along the lines of other social media stars advocating to make her dream (of being insta-famous) a reality by getting people to follower her.

[MU82]

2) Journalism had a heyday of sorts in the 1970s and 1980s. There was more focus on objectivity, investigations and as John Vivian, Professor of Journalism at MU used to say, "pursuit of the truth."

5) There's no morals in the media. Only money!

On your last point, what does "there's no morals in the media" even mean? Which media? All media? And who gets to decide what these "morals" are or should be?

As for journalism's "heyday" ...

Journalists pursued the truth before the 1970s and they're still pursuing the truth today. The methods are different, the forums have changed, the kind of competition has changed, etc. But there's still a lot of tremendous (and often important) journalism taking place.

It was the investigative reporting of the Indianapolis Star that ended Larry Nassar's reign of terror. The journalists who worked tirelessly on that series are in "the media." So is Jeanine Pirro, but her brand of "media" is a tad different, no? Another: Last year, the Charlotte Observer did an award-winning series on the corruption, greed, politics and abusive treatment taking place inside North Carolina's prisons. The work by "the media" in that situation led to changes in the system. Another: ESPN's Adrian Wojnarowski is an outstanding journalist; he's well-connected, has a ton of sources, and is quite often the first to break significant news on his beat. If folks lump him in with MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell because both are in "the media," that's on the lumpers, not the lumpee.

"Media" is a big term. Sean Hannity, Rachel Maddow, Jeremy Schaap, Dickey Simpkins, the Channel 2 weatherman and the guy who writes a dozen articles a week for my local weekly newspaper are all part of "the media." But their jobs aren't exactly the same, are they?

What I've found is that when most people criticize "the media," they actually are criticizing:

++ Well-known TV personalities, such as the Fox News, MSNBC and CNN prime-time yakkers. People praise "the media" who agree with their POV, criticize those who don't.

++ Major metro newspapers, especially if the ideology (or perceived ideology) differs from their own.

++ TV opinion-givers and newspaper columnists. Many consumers of news do not know the difference between opinion-givers and reporters.

++ Those in the sports media, mostly TV but sometimes print, who supposedly "hate" the favorite team or supposedly "love" the rivals.

++ Pretty much anybody in "the media" who doesn't confirm a given news consumer's own beliefs.

[MU82]

As the Petito case grips the nation, families of color say their missing loved ones matter, too

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/09/22/missing-persons-families-seek-help-after-gabby-petito-death/?utm_campaign=wp_the7&utm_medium=email&utm_source=newsletter&wpisrc=nl_the7&carta-url=https%3A%2F%2Fs2.washingtonpost.com%2Fcar-ln-tr%2F34c244e%2F614c5e819d2fda9d41df27a2%2F5f8d147cae7e8a56e5b732a4%2F17%2F38%2F614c5e819d2fda9d41df27a2

The last time Kimberly Bryan spoke to her sister, Tiffany Foster was showing off her new car. Bryan cracked some jokes about how it was about time but also told her big sister how proud she was. Foster was getting close to graduating from college, and everything seemed to be lining up for her.

That was more than six months ago. Foster, a 35-year-old Black mother of three from Newnan, Ga., has not been seen or heard from since March 1.

Bryan and her family handed out fliers, spoke at news conferences and hosted rallies to draw attention to Foster’s disappearance, but the case has remained mostly unknown outside their home state. So when Bryan saw the surge of interest in the Gabby Petito case, the difference was impossible to ignore.

“It does make you feel, you know, ‘Well, what about us?’ ” Bryan said. “When are we going to get her face out nationally? When are we going to get the FBI come in and help us out? We didn’t get that, and I’m asking my mom, ‘Well, why?’ And it’s no answers. We have a lot of questions with no answers.”

In the weeks since Petito was reported missing during a cross-country trip with her fiance, her story has captured national and international attention, dominating TikTok and other social media networks and garnering around-the-clock national news coverage. Partly due to the tremendous public awareness, tips flowed to the FBI and other law enforcement agencies, and the body of the 22-year-old woman was discovered Sunday near Wyoming’s Grand Teton National Park.

A manhunt for fiance Brian Laundrie, whom authorities named a “person of interest” in the case, continues. News outlets and social media users continue to track every development.

The groundswell of concern for Petito has revived perennial questions about why some missing-person cases attract such a dedicated response while others barely draw notice with many observers seeing a racial disparity at play. Between 2011 and 2020, at least 710 Indigenous people were reported missing in Wyoming, the same state where Petito, who is White, was lost and found within a matter of days.

Bryan doesn’t understand why the story of her sister, a Georgia Military College student with dreams of becoming a police officer, has not spread as widely. But, she noted, “I do feel like it could possibly be because my sister doesn’t have blond hair and blue eyes.”

Research suggests that victims who are White, attractive, young and seemingly “innocent” gain more traction in the media, said Michelle N. Jeanis, an assistant professor of criminal justice at the University of Louisiana at Lafayette who studies the relationship between crime and news and entertainment media.