Ryan 5th best coach ever in wisconsin

[MU82]

I know that playing 2 years for the Wizards absolutely killed Jordan's legacy.

Most people think of him as no better than the 20th best basketball player ever, and who will buy anything emblazoned with his logo?

Nobody!

Same with Babe Ruth. Finished with the Boston Braves and everybody now says he was never any good.

Willie Mays, too. And Joe Montana. And Johnny U. And Bobby Orr. And Wayne Gretzky.

If only they had gone out on top, they'd still have legacies to speak of!

[keefe]

Well sure it is satisfying for *us* and our overly romanticized view of sports and its role in society, but objectively it shouldn't matter at all.

By that line of reasoning there is then no intrinsic value to Bach's Air on a G String or the works of William Blake.

We celebrate nobility because it invests significance in this curious thing we call life. It is always better to embrace what is possible than what is impossible.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/HD3u5YWdWLw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/HD3u5YWdWLw</a>

[GGGG]

By that line of reasoning there is then no intrinsic value to Bach's Air on a G String or the works of William Blake.

We celebrate nobility because it invests significance in this curious thing we call life. It is always better to embrace what is possible than what is impossible.

There is nothing noble about retiring on top. 

[Dawson Rental]

That might be a little blue/gold beer goggles talking.  Rupp, Calhoun, Crum, Olson, Izzo......

But I think top 10 is certainly in the conversation.

Some would exclude bigots from consideration.  How ignorant of history must African-American basketball players be to want to play in Rupp Arena?  And to play for the state university of the state that was the last state to ratify the 13th amendment to the constitution in 1973?

[keefe]

There is nothing noble about retiring on top.

Then I guess that Homer, Euripides, Sophocles, and Herodotus got it wrong.

[Dawson Rental]

Bob Knight coaching Texas Tech with local advertising on his bowling shirt, Al would have never sunk to that
level for a job or money or to stay in the limelight. Al was a class act and I'm sure it was hard to walk away!

Two more points of comparison between Knight and Al.  Al never forced a university to can him.  Both were great TV game commentators.  Al was the more entertaining, while Knight was better, IMO at explaining what was happening on the court.

Every time I watched Dick Vitale I could only see a guy aping Al's genuine enthusiasm.

[Dawson Rental]

By that line of reasoning there is then no intrinsic value to Bach's Air on a G String or the works of William Blake.

We celebrate nobility because it invests significance in this curious thing we call life. It is always better to embrace what is possible than what is impossible.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/HD3u5YWdWLw" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/HD3u5YWdWLw</a>

I always thought of Bach as staid, but I got to like a guy playing anything on a G-string.

[GGGG]

Then I guess that Homer, Euripides, Sophocles, and Herodotus got it wrong.

You are mixing up two things.

I understand the desire to add a bit of romanticism to sports and to "feel good" about those who walk away on top.  However when you are objectively judging one's performance versus another's, those who retire on top shouldn't really get "extra points" simply because they did so.

[MerrittsMustache]

I know that playing 2 years for the Wizards absolutely killed Jordan's legacy.

Most people think of him as no better than the 20th best basketball player ever, and who will buy anything emblazoned with his logo?

Nobody!

Same with Babe Ruth. Finished with the Boston Braves and everybody now says he was never any good.

Willie Mays, too. And Joe Montana. And Johnny U. And Bobby Orr. And Wayne Gretzky.

If only they had gone out on top, they'd still have legacies to speak of!

Jordan on the Wizards, Gretzky on the Blues, Rice on Seattle, etc definitely tarnished those players' legacies...for about 2-3 seconds. In the long-term, however, no one cares. If a player or coach wants to stick around "past his prime" and is given the opportunity to do so, more power to him. I'd probably do the same.

[Benny B]

Some would exclude bigots from consideration.  How ignorant of history must African-American basketball players be to want to play in Rupp Arena?  And to play for the state university of the state that was the last state to ratify the 13th amendment to the constitution in 1973?

Yeah... but you have to realize it was the 1950s when Rupp was most relevant, and everyone was a bigot back then; heck, most of them that are still alive probably still think they're watching their slaves take on the slaves from another institution.  Even Ed O'Bannon agrees, apparently.

[JWags85]

Drew Olsen and Homer yelling at each other over if Bo deserves to be in consideration for Al's level

http://espn.go.com/espnradio/playPopup?id=14381482

You could basically turn this off when Olsen said that Kentucky last year was the best college team of all time and Bo beat them while Al couldn't beat UCLA.  And then scoffing at Al's S16s vs Bo's.  Just foolish but completely representative of Wisconsin media.

[keefe]

You could basically turn this off when Olsen said that Kentucky last year was the best college team of all time and Bo beat them while Al couldn't beat UCLA.  And then scoffing at Al's S16s vs Bo's.  Just foolish but completely representative of Wisconsin media.

Homer should have played the "Tara Card"

[Goose]

Hard to beat UCLA when they did not play them. For much of Al's run UCLA and MU never met in NCAA and only played in Milwaukee in the 60's if memory serves me. Also, UW beat UK one time and MU was second best winning % for a decade, big difference.

[MerrittsMustache]

Really the only argument one could make for Bo over Al is that Bo coached in the state of Wisconsin for nearly 3x as long as Al and had great success at the DIII level. I mean, it's not a particularly strong argument but it's about the only pro-Bo argument that could be made in that debate.

[Dr. Blackheart]

There is nothing noble about retiring on top.

Rumor is Bo went out on top, ai na?

[muwarrior69]

I think that the conversation needs to include Al's impact on the game in ways beyond his coaching. Al gave luster, texture, and context to the game in ways that Crum and Calhoun never did.

Arthur Schlesinger observed that Robert Kennedy and Al McGuire were the only two white men who could walk through Harlem in the late '60's and be welcomed as a friend. Both were champions of social justice and did more for civil rights than most others.

Pitino's legacy will always include that sordid mess at Porcini while Calhoun's name will be forever linked with recruiting scandals and disposable players who had no academic achievement to show for their time in Storrs.

If the barometer is simply how many wins then Crum and Calhoun are the more distinguished. But if one is to look at the quality of the man's soul and his impact on society as a whole then Al McGuire stands apart as one of the very best.

Only Al would rather see food on Jim Chones' table and take a pass on a probable National Championship.