Double Secret Probation

[jsglow]

Time to clean things up.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/news/139758543.html

[wyzgy]

what the...there's drinkin goin on at the frats??

[warriorchick]

"Fat, drunk and stupid is no way to go through life, son"


--Ignatius of Loyola

[ringout]

Frats always had a high % of twits.  Still do apparently.

[🏀]

Triangle? Must have been a rowdy night of World of Warcraft.

Anyways, abolish the Greek houses at Marquette, very little added value. See if those members actually care about the system without the house.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Ignorant gibberish PTM. i'm sure you must have been a real live wire at MU if you didn't drink.
Most people I know who enjoyed the Greek culture at MU and other campuses forged lifelong bonds and some groups are still in constant communication 40 years later. The social advantages aside they alos found time to enrich the community.

[jmayer1]

Marquette has frats?

[🏀]

Ignorant gibberish PTM. i'm sure you must have been a real live wire at MU if you didn't drink.
Most people I know who enjoyed the Greek culture at MU and other campuses forged lifelong bonds and some groups are still in constant communication 40 years later. The social advantages aside they alos found time to enrich the community.

The Greek System has its advantages, but they're lost today at Marquette. Marquette has better service programs that garner larger involvement through the student body than any Greek society.

However, if the students truly are involved in the essence and founding culture of the System, then taking away the houses that are problems shouldn't be an issue, right?

[LON]

Never joined a frat...you know, because I didn't have to pay dues to make friends.

[tower912]

One of the things about MU that appealed to me was the LACK of a greek system.   

[🏀]

One of the things about MU that appealed to me was the LACK of a greek system.   

+1

Never joined a frat...you know, because I didn't have to pay dues to make friends.

+1 bro

[Lighthouse 84]

Back in the day, we had houses at MU...Lighthouse, Bud House, Yellow House, Blue House, Pleasure Palace, etc.

But the issue was not whether we broke a few rules or took a few liberties with our female party guests -- we did.  We just didn't call them frats or have to worry about being put on double secret probation.

[Henry Sugar]

One of the things about MU that appealed to me was the LACK of a greek system.   

Me too.  Then I decided to join Sigma Chi anyway, and it completely enriched my college experience.

To the others, if a fraternity isn't for you, then it's not for you.  If someone decides it's good for them, then it's good for them.  Don't be a hater.

[Tommy Brice for Coach]

Triangle? Must have been a rowdy night of World of Warcraft.

Anyways, abolish the Greek houses at Marquette, very little added value. See if those members actually care about the system without the house.

Go ask the engineering school what alums made the donations to build the new building. It was the Sig Phis and the Triangles. How's that for little added value?

No one rags on you for not joining a fraternity, give it a rest.

[TallTitan34]

Ignorant gibberish PTM. i'm sure you must have been a real live wire at MU if you didn't drink.

You clearly did not know PTM in college.

[MerrittsMustache]

The fact that the university is cracking down on drinking at frats makes the MU Greek system seem like even more of a joke.

[TallTitan34]

Most people I know who enjoyed the Greek culture at MU and other campuses forged lifelong bonds and some groups are still in constant communication 40 years later.

I never understood this argument.  

I'm still in constant communication with my friends from Marquette and I wasn't in a frat.  

[🏀]

Go ask the engineering school what alums made the donations to build the new building. It was the Sig Phis and the Triangles. How's that for little added value?

No one rags on you for not joining a fraternity, give it a rest.

I know the single largest donation came from a family that wasn't in any fraternity. How's that added value?

[GGGG]

The fact that the university is cracking down on drinking at frats makes the MU Greek system seem like even more of a joke.

It's happening at a lot of schools though.  Simply put, many are viewing the negatives that fraternities bring to campus to outweigh the positives...so they are going to crack down on them and use the student code of conduct as a reason. 

[MUSig54]

Me too.  Then I decided to join Sigma Chi anyway, and it completely enriched my college experience.

To the others, if a fraternity isn't for you, then it's not for you.  If someone decides it's good for them, then it's good for them.  Don't be a hater.

In hoc. I still think what the current guys on campus did was incredibly boneheaded, though. Regardless, I personally really enjoyed my MU Greek experience, and would do it again if I had the chance.

[Tommy Brice for Coach]

I know the single largest donation came from a family that wasn't in any fraternity. How's that added value?

I like how that donation means that all the other donations that came from MU Greek alums suddenly become meaningless.

Greek Life isn't for everyone. It's perfectly fine to not join a fraternity. I just don't understand the endless hate... they are MU students/alums that do all the same things you do. They make friends, have a good time, go to MU games, etc. Why all the hate?

Either way, MUs response to this doesn't surprise me. The PR department has got to be in freak out mode after the stuff with the basketball team last year. MU probably wants to look tough.

[MerrittsMustache]

Greek Life isn't for everyone. It's perfectly fine to not join a fraternity. I just don't understand the endless hate... they are MU students/alums that do all the same things you do. They make friends, have a good time, go to MU games, etc. Why all the hate?

Like you said, frat guys make friends, have a good time, go to MU games, etc., but they also pay dues. A lot of the "hate" stems from people wondering what the ROI is on joining a frat.

[Tommy Brice for Coach]

Like you said, frat guys make friends, have a good time, go to MU games, etc., but they also pay dues. A lot of the "hate" stems from people wondering what the ROI is on joining a frat.

The ROI can be anything from nothing to a lot. If you join an organization that you don't gel with the people and doesn't offer opportunities to develop personally and professionally, you're not going to get much out of it. When I was at MU, I didn't see too many frats without personal/professional development opportunities.

For me, I felt like the ROI was high. I made a lot of friends (that I still keep in touch with), had some good memories, got a bunch of leadership development opportunities I wouldn't have otherwise had, built a fantastic network, and a house to live in for a year of college. From a purely financial standpoint, I lived for free and paid no dues for one year due to a scholarship only available from my fraternity I got. Even when I did pay dues, it wasn't like I didn't get anything back - it bought me a bunch of meals with my friends and fun (and many times alcohol free!) outings with my friends.

It's perfectly fine if you didn't think this was for you. You can get all of these things in many other ways. A fraternity was just a nice way to bring them all together in one place for me.

[damuts222]

  I too was in a fraternity at MU due to the professional advantages. MU is cracking down on drinking period. Notice all of the bars that MU is buying the land off of or making disappear that many of us drank at while at MU. Drinking happens everywhere on campus, whether its at a frat house or your apartment MU doesn't want it to happen period and is making an example with this.
  Every year in Jan/Feb the Milwaukee police and MU cracked down on some party or gave out tickets to every intoxicated student in sight...this happened all 4 years I was at MU.

[MUBurrow]

In hoc. I still think what the current guys on campus did was incredibly boneheaded, though. Regardless, I personally really enjoyed my MU Greek experience, and would do it again if I had the chance.

What did the current guys do differently from every other class that lead to the crackdown?

[MU82]

Best of both worlds: My circle of friends also had friends who were frat members. We got invited to all the good parties but didn't have to be in any frats.

Beyond that, I am appalled -- APPALLED, I tell you! -- that there is drinking going on at these frats.

[jsglow]

Greek life is somewhat more popular at MU now compared to when I attended school 30 years ago.  While I was not in a fraternity and frankly knew few folks who were, my daughter has enjoyed her experience in one of MU's sorority.

What's really happening is that MU is (and needs to) increase its crack down on drinking.  It has gotten a bit out of hand.  Everyone understands that students enjoy a barley pop or three.  But kids getting hauled off to the hospital means the situation is a bit out of control.

[radome]

But kids getting hauled off to the hospital means the situation is a bit out of control.

Has this been alcohol poisoning or alcohol related incidents?

[Steve Buscemi]

Greek life is somewhat more popular at MU now compared to when I attended school 30 years ago.  While I was not in a fraternity and frankly knew few folks who were, my daughter has enjoyed her experience in one of MU's sorority.

What's really happening is that MU is (and needs to) increase its crack down on drinking.  It has gotten a bit out of hand.  Everyone understands that students enjoy a barley pop or three.  But kids getting hauled off to the hospital means the situation is a bit out of control.

These days, frats and sororities are two completely different things at MU.  Don't really know much about sororities other than my belief that Alpha Phi recruits on looks and looks only.  And frat bros tend to be a little (to be nice) "bro-ey."  But I wouldn't say that there's a good number of either gender in greek life at MU. 

And I would also add that there's not a bunch of people getting carted off by ambulances, either... after the first weekend back.

[tower912]

I cannot believe that more kids are getting hauled off to the hospital now than there were back in the day.    If that is true, I can only think of two reasons.    1.   Greater awareness.   Back in the day, we would carry them to their beds and let them sleep it off.    2.   Because they don't drink as often, kids go to the extreme when they do. 

[Coleman]

I cannot believe that more kids are getting hauled off to the hospital now than there were back in the day.    If that is true, I can only think of two reasons.    1.   Greater awareness.   Back in the day, we would carry them to their beds and let them sleep it off.    2.   Because they don't drink as often, kids go to the extreme when they do. 

Or because they are just getting really, really, drunk...a lot.

[Skitch]

Does anyone know the percentage of MU that is Greek?  Doesn't seem like much.  Also if it's true that the Alpha Phi sorority picks girls solely based on looks then hopefully it wasn't the same in my day because woof that would be the biggest indictment of the female Marquette population I've ever heard.

[Hards Alumni]

Greek life is somewhat more popular at MU now compared to when I attended school 30 years ago.  While I was not in a fraternity and frankly knew few folks who were, my daughter has enjoyed her experience in one of MU's sorority.

What's really happening is that MU is (and needs to) increase its crack down on drinking.  It has gotten a bit out of hand.  Everyone understands that students enjoy a barley pop or three.  But kids getting hauled off to the hospital means the situation is a bit out of control.

When I attended in the early 2000s it was not popular at all.  There were a few cool parties a year, but a few guys from my dorm wing freshman year didn't seem like they got much out of it.

Also, the solution to stopping the drinking is not to remove bars.  That only changes the location where the drinking happens.  Plus, it isn't as if all the frat guys can't just go to house parties now.  Not to open a can of worms, but fighting drinking on campus is like trying to fight the war on drugs... totally hopeless, and a giant waste of resources.

[warriorchick]

Does anyone know the percentage of MU that is Greek?  Doesn't seem like much.  Also if it's true that the Alpha Phi sorority picks girls solely based on looks then hopefully it wasn't the same in my day because woof that would be the biggest indictment of the female Marquette population I've ever heard.

It's about 12% for girls and 7% for guys.

Perhaps it's just a coincidence, but it looks like a significant number of these chapters started within a few years of the drinking age in Wisconsin going from 18 to 21.

You can read all you want about Marquette Greek Life here:

http://www.marquette.edu/osd/greek/


BTW, all you fellas that think Marquette girls leave something to be desired in terms of attractiveness should check out the slide show in the upper right hand corner of the web page.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think Frats are fine, as long as they don't dominate campus.

At MU, you don't have to be in a frat to have a good social life, so it's fine.

Some schools, you really need to pledge to have access to a lot of the nightlife, which is far too "bro-ey" for me.

Oh, and my one gripe with frats is that the Sig Eps used to stir up some trouble at the local watering holes. I'm all for a good bar fight, but there were several small, big mouthed brothers who knew they wouldn't be challenged because of the safety in numbers. Again, "bro-ey" or "bro-ish" if you will. Without the frat, those dudes would have gotten their faces caved in, imo.

Such is life.

[jsglow]

Also, the solution to stopping the drinking is not to remove bars.  That only changes the location where the drinking happens.  Plus, it isn't as if all the frat guys can't just go to house parties now.  Not to open a can of worms, but fighting drinking on campus is like trying to fight the war on drugs... totally hopeless, and a giant waste of resources.

I agree with your first statement especially because 'bar drinking' has moved mostly to Water Street and points east.  The days when we easily walked (stumbled) home from Wells back to the dorms are long gone. 

My main concern is the off campus parties that have tended to get a bit out of control.  This is especially true in the early Fall when the Freshmen show up and houses will raise money for their living expenses by hosting underage 'red cup' parties.  I think the Frats are being made an example of as a warning to others.  Dial it down, boys. 

And lastly, alcohol awareness is not a waste of resources.  I'm confident that my underage daughter has had her share of beers.  What these kids need to have a better appreciation for is that 3-4 shouldn't evolve into 12.  That's when bad things really happen.  No parent wants that call.

[martyconlonontherun]

Tribune, Frisbee, Rugby, etc throw similar functions to fraternities but never have any on the liabilities from the University. I think it so stupid that a fraternity can't hold a party because MU says so, but the Tribune (who are employees of the University) can have parties w/o registering or getting their club in trouble. It's all about the University worried about being PC. They see letters on your chest and hold you to a different standard.

[Coleman]

Tribune, Frisbee, Rugby, etc throw similar functions to fraternities but never have any on the liabilities from the University. I think it so stupid that a fraternity can't hold a party because MU says so, but the Tribune (who are employees of the University) can have parties w/o registering or getting their club in trouble. It's all about the University worried about being PC. They see letters on your chest and hold you to a different standard.

yea but everyone knows that going into it. you put the target on yourself by wearing the letters. don't like it, don't wear them

[GGGG]

Also, the solution to stopping the drinking is not to remove bars.  That only changes the location where the drinking happens.  Plus, it isn't as if all the frat guys can't just go to house parties now.  Not to open a can of worms, but fighting drinking on campus is like trying to fight the war on drugs... totally hopeless, and a giant waste of resources.

And one could argue that you would rather have students drinking in bars, where they have to pay per drink and in a controlled environment.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

And one could argue that you would rather have students drinking in bars, where they have to pay per drink and in a controlled environment.

Can't believe how slim the bar options are now, even compared to when I was there (half a decade ago).

I'm out of WI now and I rarely make it back for games. Do alumni even bother coming back to campus to drink after games?

[martyconlonontherun]

yea but everyone knows that going into it. you put the target on yourself by wearing the letters. don't like it, don't wear them

So joining a fraternity because you want the brotherhood means OSD has the right over whether or not 4 or more of you can go out on a friday night? If you want to plan a bar crawl even if has nothing to do with the fraternity and even if other people are invited, they still count it as a fraternity social event and you aren't allowed to work out drink discounts and have to register it, which they probably would deny. The amount of paperwork is a joke and any action of 1 of the 80 members is counted against the whole fraternity. I understand the rule if the fraternity is hosting the 'event' or if funds are used towards it, but they go overboards when it comes to fraternity members as students.

As someone stated earlier, MU is nice because you can be in a fraternity and not worry about it taking over your life. I wish OSD would apply the same attitude.

[MUBurrow]

As someone stated earlier, MU is nice because you can be in a fraternity and not worry about it taking over your life. I wish OSD would apply the same attitude.

Frats are the way they are at Marquette BECAUSE of things like how OSD approaches them.

[Hards Alumni]

It's about 12% for girls and 7% for guys.

Perhaps it's just a coincidence, but it looks like a significant number of these chapters started within a few years of the drinking age in Wisconsin going from 18 to 21.

You can read all you want about Marquette Greek Life here:

http://www.marquette.edu/osd/greek/


BTW, all you fellas that think Marquette girls leave something to be desired in terms of attractiveness should check out the slide show in the upper right hand corner of the web page.

methinks you have an unhealthy obsession.

Those girls are average at best.  A few lookers, but overall simply average.

[Hards Alumni]

I agree with your first statement especially because 'bar drinking' has moved mostly to Water Street and points east.  The days when we easily walked (stumbled) home from Wells back to the dorms are long gone. 

My main concern is the off campus parties that have tended to get a bit out of control.  This is especially true in the early Fall when the Freshmen show up and houses will raise money for their living expenses by hosting underage 'red cup' parties.  I think the Frats are being made an example of as a warning to others.  Dial it down, boys. 

And lastly, alcohol awareness is not a waste of resources.  I'm confident that my underage daughter has had her share of beers.  What these kids need to have a better appreciation for is that 3-4 shouldn't evolve into 12.  That's when bad things really happen.  No parent wants that call.

12 beers was a good start... anyone who gets poisoned off of 12 beers should pack it in and go home.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Frats are the way they are at Marquette BECAUSE of things like how OSD approaches them.

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this, but if you mean that they are utterly neutered because of hyper regulation, then yes I agree that they are the way they are because of how OSD 'approaches' them.

[MUBurrow]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean by this, but if you mean that they are utterly neutered because of hyper regulation, then yes I agree that they are the way they are because of how OSD 'approaches' them.

Thats basically what I meant. And it seems many here have voiced that MU as a whole is better off for it. Greek participation is pretty low, and it doesn't hurt ones social life whatsoever if they don't go greek. Beyond that, even Greeks have mentioned that they liked the way it didnt entirely consume their lives. That wouldnt be the case if frats and sororities weren't so reigned in.

If you (royal you) knew you that you wanted greek life to define your college experience, Marquette makes no bones about it - MU probably isnt the school for you. I personally didnt understand the appeal of frats at a place like MU as contrasted with a Big Ten school etc. But if thats your bag, whatever. But as a non-greek that wouldn't want the greek presence to be any larger than it already was, I appreciate the OSD modus operandi on frats.

[Tommy Brice for Coach]

As someone stated earlier, MU is nice because you can be in a fraternity and not worry about it taking over your life. I wish OSD would apply the same attitude.

+1000000

Some of the rules are absolutely crazy. How can you expect an organization to follow rules that dictate every single time more than four fraternity members are together it is an "event" and must be registered with OSD? MU has been trying to strangle the Greek scene for years, they finally got their chance.

What I don't understand is why they would do it. All MU just did (beyond pissing off some of their Greek students) is make the alums who were Greek not feel wanted my their university. I wouldn't give money to MU right now. They are trying to eliminate the organization that I felt defined a large part of my college experience.

[martyconlonontherun]

+1000000

Some of the rules are absolutely crazy. How can you expect an organization to follow rules that dictate every single time more than four fraternity members are together it is an "event" and must be registered with OSD? MU has been trying to strangle the Greek scene for years, they finally got their chance.

What I don't understand is why they would do it. All MU just did (beyond pissing off some of their Greek students) is make the alums who were Greek not feel wanted my their university. I wouldn't give money to MU right now. They are trying to eliminate the organization that I felt defined a large part of my college experience.

Funny thing is I got a request for a donation today in the mail and I immediately thought of this and OSD.

What is worse is that OSD's rules conflicted with National fraternity rules a lot of the time. ie One said BYOB only, the other said no BYOB.

[warriorchick]

12 beers was a good start... anyone who gets poisoned off of 12 beers should pack it in and go home.

I take it, then, that you would have no problem with your daughter chugging 12 beers at a frat house full of drunk, horny boys.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Thats basically what I meant. And it seems many here have voiced that MU as a whole is better off for it. Greek participation is pretty low, and it doesn't hurt ones social life whatsoever if they don't go greek. Beyond that, even Greeks have mentioned that they liked the way it didnt entirely consume their lives. That wouldnt be the case if frats and sororities weren't so reigned in.

If you (royal you) knew you that you wanted greek life to define your college experience, Marquette makes no bones about it - MU probably isnt the school for you. I personally didnt understand the appeal of frats at a place like MU as contrasted with a Big Ten school etc. But if thats your bag, whatever. But as a non-greek that wouldn't want the greek presence to be any larger than it already was, I appreciate the OSD modus operandi on frats.

In my opinion, the Greek system is really nothing more than a utility for the administration, by this point. They serve the function of finding forced "volunteers" for university functions and off-campus service events. They are a way for the university to market itself to the community. When they perform their new function well of facilitating the school's interest in service activity, they are thanked and rewarded. When they try to perform their traditional role as campus social organizers, they are shut down.

I don't know how things like this operate at other schools, or the public schools, but Marquette has really mastered the ability to whip the campus fraternities/sororities into their own servants. At least, that was my perception during the one year I was a member of the Greek system. I think we only had one, OSD-regulated "social" event the entire year I was in it. (For the record, it wasn't one of the groups that just went on probation.)

[Lighthouse 84]

I take it, then, that you would have no problem with your daughter chugging 12 beers at a frat house full of drunk, horny boys.

I agree Warriorchick.  I wouldn't want my daughter chugging 12 beers.  I didn't know many girls at MU who "chugged" 12 beers.  There were definitely some who could drink a lot, but not chug 12.  But for Hards, and many of us at MU back even longer ago than when he was there, 12 was a primer before we went out to the bars.  Guys would have case races.  MU had free block parties (until 1984 when Mike Poss ran the famous penny protest).  Vic, I can't believe the problems today are because the kids "are just getting really, really, drunk...a lot."  It can't be more than it was back in the day.

While I do agree that the drinking needs to be curtailed and cut down from when we were there, I'm with Tower.  What happened to just helping a roommate to his bed and having him sleep it off?

[GGGG]

What I don't understand is why they would do it. All MU just did (beyond pissing off some of their Greek students) is make the alums who were Greek not feel wanted my their university. I wouldn't give money to MU right now. They are trying to eliminate the organization that I felt defined a large part of my college experience.

In the long run, eliminating the Greeks is the best thing for MU simply because of this attitude.  Not saying your experiences are misguided or wrong, but in my experience in higher ed outside of MU, the Greek system and Greek alumni are a hinderence for universities more than they are a help.

[warriorchick]

  MU had free block parties (until 1984 when Mike Poss ran the famous penny protest). 

Don't remind me.  I was an ASMU Treasurer that year and I missed the entire block party because I had to count all those f*cking pennies.

[Lighthouse 84]

Don't remind me.  I was an ASMU Treasurer that year and I missed the entire block party because I had to count all those f*cking pennies.

Good times.....good times.


Did you ever make it over to the Lighthouse back in the day Warriorchick?

[warriorchick]

Good times.....good times.


Did you ever make it over to the Lighthouse back in the day Warriorchick?

If I did, I was too drunk to remember.....

[MUSig54]

I take it, then, that you would have no problem with your daughter chugging 12 beers at a frat house full of drunk, horny boys.

Good lord, no! I'd want her chugging those 12 beers at a non-greek house party full of drunk, horny boys!

[🏀]

Good lord, no! I'd want her chugging those 12 beers at a non-greek house party full of drunk, horny boys!

Probably better, frats are filled with deviant sexual predators. Right?

[warriorchick]

Good lord, no! I'd want her chugging those 12 beers at a non-greek house party full of drunk, horny boys!

Well, then, let's put her in the Wayback Machine, crank it back 28 years, and send her to the Lighthouse.

Lighthouse84: she's all yours, buddy.   

[Tommy Brice for Coach]

I take it, then, that you would have no problem with your daughter chugging 12 beers at a frat house full of drunk, horny boys.

I hate to say this - but it doesn't matter if it is a frat house or not. There are drunk, horny boys everywhere on and off campus on a Friday or Saturday night. Could be a house party, could be a bar, could be a frat house, too.

If I was a parent, I'd want my daughter somewhere with some sort of rules - where there is less of a chance of her getting black out drunk. The bar is a good place for that - there are laws against over serving patrons, plus there is a cost to each drink. A frat party is second to that in terms of control - there are rules, and you generally need to know someone that lives there to get a beer. Beer is only given in exchange for a ticket and a patron can only get one beer at a time. Now, while these rules are sometimes not followed, it is much better/safer than a house party at 19th and Kilbourn, which has no rules at all, and binge drinking is encouraged.

Maybe this is harsh to say, but if your daughter (or son for that matter) is chugging 12 beers on a regular basis, something bad could happen anywhere. Doesn't matter if it is at a frat house or not. I'd argue that with the MU imposed rules, it is LESS likely to happen in a frat house. I'd argue the real problem is college students chugging 12 beers - though, IMO that is much more of a societal thing related to the drinking age. But this is not a politics forum, so I will leave that issue there.
 

[tower912]

  There have been drunk horny college boys since there has been college, alcohol, and women.   The nature of young people hasn't changed over the centuries.      Teenagers have been having sex as long as there has been teenagers and sex.     The difference is how it is covered by the media and viewed by the adults in society who did nearly the same thing when they were young. 

[Henry Sugar]

Probably better, frats are filled with deviant sexual predators. Right?

you missed the part where all frat guys are given roofies and special predator training as part of the Initiation ceremony.

A frat party is second to that in terms of control - there are rules, and you generally need to know someone that lives there to get a beer. Beer is only given in exchange for a ticket and a patron can only get one beer at a time. Now, while these rules are sometimes not followed, it is much better/safer than a house party at 19th and Kilbourn, which has no rules at all, and binge drinking is encouraged.

Are those really the current rules?  That blows.  I miss the days of picking up a keg on Friday night and making a few calls.*

*Those actions may have resulted in my house being put on probation as well.

[MUBurrow]

I hate to say this - but it doesn't matter if it is a frat house or not. There are drunk, horny boys everywhere on and off campus on a Friday or Saturday night.

A frat party is second to that in terms of control - there are rules, and you generally need to know someone that lives there to get a beer. Beer is only given in exchange for a ticket and a patron can only get one beer at a time.

I can back a lot of this up as definitely true. As a guy, I was never much a fan of the frats, but in terms of how they handle drinking, its definitely more locked down than non-frat free for alls.  I remember one of the few times I walked into a frat party and some guy at the front handed me a couple of tickets, and I looked at him and said something like "what the ** is this?"  Further, Mrs Burrow was a sorority girl, and I remember how hard/expensive it was to drink at formals/semi formals. Got her into trouble drinking on the bus, had to pay like $7/beer at the formal, had a hell of a time sneaking her underage brother said-bradley-center-priced-beers, etc etc. Much harder to get totally destroyed at greek events.

[MUSig54]

Those have been the rules since about 2004-2005 or so. Don't know how much it's being followed lately, but as I was president of my chapter when the new rules went in, we were pretty strict about it for the next year or so up until I graduated.

And don't get me started on those damn lists of guests.

[warriorchick]

I hate to say this - but it doesn't matter if it is a frat house or not. There are drunk, horny boys everywhere on and off campus on a Friday or Saturday night. Could be a house party, could be a bar, could be a frat house, too.

If I was a parent, I'd want my daughter somewhere with some sort of rules - where there is less of a chance of her getting black out drunk. The bar is a good place for that - there are laws against over serving patrons, plus there is a cost to each drink. A frat party is second to that in terms of control - there are rules, and you generally need to know someone that lives there to get a beer. Beer is only given in exchange for a ticket and a patron can only get one beer at a time. Now, while these rules are sometimes not followed, it is much better/safer than a house party at 19th and Kilbourn, which has no rules at all, and binge drinking is encouraged.

Maybe this is harsh to say, but if your daughter (or son for that matter) is chugging 12 beers on a regular basis, something bad could happen anywhere. Doesn't matter if it is at a frat house or not. I'd argue that with the MU imposed rules, it is LESS likely to happen in a frat house. I'd argue the real problem is college students chugging 12 beers - though, IMO that is much more of a societal thing related to the drinking age. But this is not a politics forum, so I will leave that issue there.
 

I wasn't actually trying to make a point about frat houses.  I was trying to make a point about people like Hards_Alumni who have the attitude that those who don't binge drink often enough to build up a significant tolerance should be objects of ridicule.  Yes, most (if not all) of us on this board have over-imbibed, especially at college.  But calling those who can't or won't "wimps" or worse is something most of us stopped doing when we became mature adults.  Yes, this was tons of binge drinking back in the olden days, and I have occasionally cracked jokes about drinking with my college-aged daughter, but that still doesn't mean I haven't had the conversations about acting responsibly.

[Tommy Brice for Coach]

I wasn't actually trying to make a point about frat houses.  I was trying to make a point about people like Hards_Alumni who have the attitude that those who don't binge drink often enough to build up a significant tolerance should be objects of ridicule.  Yes, most (if not all) of us on this board have over-imbibed, especially at college.  But calling those who can't or won't "wimps" or worse is something most of us stopped doing when we became mature adults.  Yes, this was tons of binge drinking back in the olden days, and I have occasionally cracked jokes about drinking with my college-aged daughter, but that stll doesn't mean I haven't had the conversations about acting responsibly.

+1

I agree with you. The attitude that you must binge drink to enjoy college absolutely needs to go. It's ok to go all out once in a while, but the culture is changing so that you need to go all out every single weekend.

[tower912]

I disagree that this is a culture change.   I knew many people, dorm dwellers all, whose sole plan was to plan their weekend benders.   I didn't spend too much time doing that because I always worked on the weekends.    But I knew many people who engaged in case-races.   I knew one guy who would buy a pitcher of beer, pour you a glass out of it, and then bet he could chug the rest of the pitcher before you chugged your glass.    Dollar imports, quarter taps, weekend starting on Wednesday.   I knew one girl who went out every night of her final semester in college.    No matter how many ways you argue it, the nature of college drinking is not significantly different than it was a generation ago. 

[Tommy Brice for Coach]

In the long run, eliminating the Greeks is the best thing for MU simply because of this attitude.  Not saying your experiences are misguided or wrong, but in my experience in higher ed outside of MU, the Greek system and Greek alumni are a hinderence for universities more than they are a help.

This is interesting to me - something I haven't thought about before. I do think the Greek community usually has an attitude that the university is trying to keep them down (and maybe I'm exhibiting it a little ). I've found that this attitude goes beyond MU. I've met guys in my fraternity from other schools, and they all say that their university is against them - even at schools with very lax rules and large Greek systems like Illinois.

Sultan, I'm curious - does this attitude extend to alums of other campus groups? I'd imagine that people who were in Chorus/Club Sports/Service Organizations/etc all want to see MU support their organization, and would have a fit too if the university did something that stifled it.

[Steve Buscemi]

12 was a primer

Still is.

[GGGG]

Sultan, I'm curious - does this attitude extend to alums of other campus groups? I'd imagine that people who were in Chorus/Club Sports/Service Organizations/etc all want to see MU support their organization, and would have a fit too if the university did something that stifled it.

Well, let me put it this way, and I don't want you to be offended by this...

A lot of schools view Greeks as a headache.  They rarely grab headlines in a positive way. Back in the day, it was a great way for students to get involved and serve, but now there are all sorts of way for students to give back.  Just look at the student orgs that are now active at Marquette.  And look at all the service they perform.  But very rarely do they get in trouble for drinking, etc.  (Probably because they don't have a house in which to do so.)

An example.  A frat does a positive, community service project, and afterwards goes back to their house and has a big party that gets busted.  Now, the student finance association goes out and does a positive, community service project, goes back to the apartment of a member and has a big party that gets busted.  

Which one will be seen as being under the guise of a student organization?  Likely just the former.

[Tommy Brice for Coach]

Well, let me put it this way, and I don't want you to be offended by this...

A lot of schools view Greeks as a headache.  They rarely grab headlines in a positive way. Back in the day, it was a great way for students to get involved and serve, but now there are all sorts of way for students to give back.  Just look at the student orgs that are now active at Marquette.  And look at all the service they perform.  But very rarely do they get in trouble for drinking, etc.  (Probably because they don't have a house in which to do so.)

An example.  A frat does a positive, community service project, and afterwards goes back to their house and has a big party that gets busted.  Now, the student finance association goes out and does a positive, community service project, goes back to the apartment of a member and has a big party that gets busted.  

Which one will be seen as being under the guise of a student organization?  Likely just the former.

Definitely not offended. Was really looking for your thoughts on the issue, and they are much appreciated. I see how they are interpreted as a headache to a university. If they are such a headache, why doesn't MU just come down and get rid of them already then - instead of treating them like second class organizations? In your opinion, what's keeping them from doing this?

(I'd just like to point out that I'm not advocating that, as I was Greek and feel like MU would lose a vibrant group of students from that decision.)

[MUSig54]

Back when I was the Greek Programming Assistant for OSD (it was a student position), the question was asked why OSD was so anti-Greek. Their response was always "If we really wanted to get rid of greek life, we'd have done so already."

Take it with a grain of salt, of course, but Marquette could easily just get rid of Greek Life if they wanted to. The fact that they haven't means that they either recognize some positives with having a greek community. Or just want to avoid any possible bad PR with just getting rid of 15 or so student orgs with the flip of a switch.

[GGGG]

Take it with a grain of salt, of course, but Marquette could easily just get rid of Greek Life if they wanted to. The fact that they haven't means that they either recognize some positives with having a greek community. Or just want to avoid any possible bad PR with just getting rid of 15 or so student orgs with the flip of a switch.

Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!

Banning means negative PR on Marquette.  Saying they violated rules make it the Greek orgs fault.

[Henry Sugar]

Ding, Ding, Ding!!!!

Banning means negative PR on Marquette.  Saying they violated rules make it the Greek orgs fault.

We all know that Marquette has a problem with negative PR issues and how to handle them.

[Tommy Brice for Coach]

We all know that Marquette has a problem with negative PR issues and how to handle them.

What are you talking about!? I think MU is great at handling PR...

[Hards Alumni]

I take it, then, that you would have no problem with your daughter chugging 12 beers at a frat house full of drunk, horny boys.

That is a really nice straw man you set up there.

[MUSig54]

That is a really nice straw man you set up there.

Yeah, I know. I think my point drinking that much, no matter the location, is probably trouble, and implying that all frat guys are drunk and horny and would take advantage of such a situation moreso than any other person (which is hopefully around 0% at MU) is pretty ridiculous. But my brain is fried from studying anyway.

[MUSig54]

Can't delete. Hit quote instead of modify...