The Force Awakens *Possible Spoilers*

[mu03eng]

One thing that's stuck in my mind with all of the Finn, can he use the force talk is that we may be over estimating the power of jedi/sith at the point in time of TFA.  Let's leave Snoke out for now because we really know nothing about him.

The only known "trained" force user is Luke Skywalker and while certainly of tremendous potential he was directly trained for 10 minutes by Kenobi on the Falcon and then maybe a month or two by Yoda.  The rest was all self taught.  By the time he fought Vader. Vader was half a man and getting old and hadn't fought anyone it quite a while.  Luke then becomes a Jedi Master by default and starts to train new candidates including Ben Solo.  So why are we expecting Kylo Ren to be really good compared to an average trained fighter when he is wounded and presumably on some level distracted by killing his dad??  And Rey clearly has some hand to hand/melee combat experience, translating that to a saber isn't ridiculous.

Do any of the people seem like they could go up against an in their prime Anakin or Obi-won?  Definitely don't seem like they could go up against a Yoda or Palpatine.  If there is an apocolypse and lots of knowledge is lost, but I survive....even with my engineering degree there is going to be a lot of time and learning before we're building Ford Festivas let alone Ferrari's.

That's where the Holocrons come in from the EU and I think one of the things that will definitely make it into the actual canon. 

Expanded theory: Luke's discovered a Jedi temple with lost knowledge and he and Rey will rebuild the Jedi Order to take on Snoke, who could be Darth Plagius(hence complete Ren's training)?????

[jficke13]

For the people who have called out the oddness surrounding Poe, I saw a theory floating around that he was captured, brainwashed, and is now a one-man "sleeper cell" for the First Order. Not sure I buy that, but lots of people have been bugged by his storyline.

[jesmu84]

One thing that's stuck in my mind with all of the Finn, can he use the force talk is that we may be over estimating the power of jedi/sith at the point in time of TFA.  Let's leave Snoke out for now because we really know nothing about him.

The only known "trained" force user is Luke Skywalker and while certainly of tremendous potential he was directly trained for 10 minutes by Kenobi on the Falcon and then maybe a month or two by Yoda.  The rest was all self taught.  By the time he fought Vader. Vader was half a man and getting old and hadn't fought anyone it quite a while.  Luke then becomes a Jedi Master by default and starts to train new candidates including Ben Solo.  So why are we expecting Kylo Ren to be really good compared to an average trained fighter when he is wounded and presumably on some level distracted by killing his dad??  And Rey clearly has some hand to hand/melee combat experience, translating that to a saber isn't ridiculous.

Do any of the people seem like they could go up against an in their prime Anakin or Obi-won?  Definitely don't seem like they could go up against a Yoda or Palpatine.  If there is an apocolypse and lots of knowledge is lost, but I survive....even with my engineering degree there is going to be a lot of time and learning before we're building Ford Festivas let alone Ferrari's.

That's where the Holocrons come in from the EU and I think one of the things that will definitely make it into the actual canon. 

Expanded theory: Luke's discovered a Jedi temple with lost knowledge and he and Rey will rebuild the Jedi Order to take on Snoke, who could be Darth Plagius(hence complete Ren's training)?????

[/b]

I can't remember if I saw this in the movie, or read it online somewhere, but was it mentioned (maybe by Leia) that Luke disappeared in search of the first Jedi temple?

As well, floating around online, people are mentioning that the last scene with Luke appears to show objects near him including a box. Speculation of holocrons abounds.

[jesmu84]

For the people who have called out the oddness surrounding Poe, I saw a theory floating around that he was captured, brainwashed, and is now a one-man "sleeper cell" for the First Order. Not sure I buy that, but lots of people have been bugged by his storyline.

That's a new one.

I also saw a theory that Captain Phasma is a "secret agent" of Luke's embedded in the First Order to help him/the Resistance. Possibly even Luke's wife.

[jficke13]

That's a new one.

I also saw a theory that Captain Phasma is a "secret agent" of Luke's embedded in the First Order to help him/the Resistance. Possibly even Luke's wife.

Speaking of her... if she was put in a garbage chute, um... how'd she get off the starkiller?

[jesmu84]

Speaking of her... if she was put in a garbage chute, um... how'd she get off the starkiller?

I saw it at 4am, so I don't remember every little detail... but do we know for sure ANY bad guys got off?

[brewcity77]

I saw it at 4am, so I don't remember every little detail... but do we know for sure ANY bad guys got off?

For sure, no, but it sounds like both Phasma and Hux did from internet talk. Hard to imagine they'd cast Gwendolyn Christie and never show her face.

[mu03eng]

I saw it at 4am, so I don't remember every little detail... but do we know for sure ANY bad guys got off?

We assume Hux and Kylo got off because Snoke ordered it (why take screen time if they don't).  If Phasma died on Starkiller that is justndumb, why even have the character?  Had to survive for that reason alone.

[🏀]

Just saw it, read the thread. Thoughts coming later...but to those complaining about plot holes, someone mentioned it, but this will be bigger than the Marvel Universe.

We're talking solo story movies, TV spin offs, everything.

Disney needed JJ to play this one relatively safe to regain faith after The Phantom Menace bedcrapting. People love it and Disney will be blowing it all up.

[mu03eng]

For the people who have called out the oddness surrounding Poe, I saw a theory floating around that he was captured, brainwashed, and is now a one-man "sleeper cell" for the First Order. Not sure I buy that, but lots of people have been bugged by his storyline.

I had that thought during the movie but I'm pretty sure you activate him to keep your starkiller base from getting blown up

[mu03eng]

Another very interesting item that just turned up online.  Apparently in the visual guide to TFA includes a reference to the flight helmet Rey is wearing right before she meets BB-8. The helmet belong to a pilot with the last name Reah....so is Rey even her name? Did she take on an alias or not even know her name at all?

[MU82]

I had that thought during the movie but I'm pretty sure you activate him to keep your starkiller base from getting blown up

Indeed, that would be quite the ruse -- and quite the sacrifice -- just to have Poe serve as your double-agent later.

[🏀]

Another very interesting item that just turned up online.  Apparently in the visual guide to TFA includes a reference to the flight helmet Rey is wearing right before she meets BB-8. The helmet belong to a pilot with the last name Reah....so is Rey even her name? Did she take on an alias or not even know her name at all?

Makes sense, Leia didn't know her name.

[jesmu84]

Makes sense, Leia didn't know her name.

How does the audience know Leia didn't know her name?

[LAMUfan]

How does the audience know Leia didn't know her name?

She doesn't know her last name is Skywalker

[muwarrior69]

Finally, people to talk with this about!

Overall I thought it was a great, need to see it a couple of times to see if it ranks ahead of ANH and RotJ or not....Empire definitely has it licked.

Rey has to be Luke's daughter, have to think that he connected with her through the force and that's how she was able to channel the force effectively, that was what was going on when Rey and Ben/Kylo had their sabers engaged.  Betting that Kylo killed Luke's wife/Rey's mother as part of his turn to the dark side.  Also think there has to be a Revan connection some where in VIII

Also keep in mind that Kylo was wounded and had incomplete training, and Rey had demonstrated an ability to fight on Jakku and her saber style was more staff like then sword based.

Last thing on Rey, loved the intro of the character when she didn't need Finn to take care of her, liked the continuation of the Leia empowerment arc.


Overall, I think the movie was to serve three purposes....connect the old fans with the new characters, restart the world, and provide a platform for the next two movies.  I think it accomplished everything.  I'm glad the fan service that went on was not plot related it was a lot more of sight gags, throw away lines, etc.

Gonna to watch it again later this week with the family, I'll probably have more thoughts then.

Definitely a Skywalker. Remember how adept she is at fixing things and able to grasp how things work, like flying the Millennium Falcon; so was young Annakin; building C3PO and winning the Pod Race.

[chapman]

Just viewed TFA for the second time. Here are a few thoughts between the thread and the movie:
.

• The Blue Lightsaber: Not a worry at all. Maz specifically says it's a long story, but a story for another time. It will be explained. Definitely Luke's weapon from Cloud City. In the original scripts, I guess there was a scene cut of the lightsaber falling to Jakku with Luke's severed hand still clutching it. Interesting sidenote, the reason they made Luke's lightsaber in RotJ green was because the blue didn't show up as well in the battle against Jabba on Tatooine.
  
  I've also no problem with not knowing.  I mean, nobody had a huge problem with the old EU explanation that had the hand used to make clone Luuke. I did like the change of color in ROTJ, felt it represented Luke's development well, pretty cool that it was originally just an accident. 
  
  
• Rey's parents: This still has me befuddled. The problem with her being a Kenobi or Jinn is that both were Jedi that seemed to mostly live by the rules of the order, which included not taking a wife and having children. Luke I suppose is possible, but the last name Skywalker would probably resonate with her sooner (and she says "I thought he was a myth"). Abrams said the name was left out deliberately, so it has to be familiar. I think Obi-Wan breaking his vows seems most likely in his later years, perhaps he left a young Rey on Jakku knowing another conflict with Vader was coming, which would make Rey 33-35, possible if her mother was long-lived, like Padme. It would also be appropriately circular if Luke trained Obi-Wan's child, just as Obi-Wan had once trained Anakin's child.

I'll stick with Luke.  For Obi-Wan it would have to be a granddaughter, then we're starting to get more distant than what they *want* it to be.  Though I'd love the twist of the guy originally named for Ben Kenobi going up against his true heir.

• The Dark Side: Kylo Ren has his struggles to stave off the light side, but what really struck me was just how dark Rey looked in her final battle with Ren. I thought it on my first viewing, but it kind of slipped my mind in the fanboy "It's Luke, it's Luke" moment after. If not for the earthquake, I think there's a good chance Rey kills Ren. I wonder if we'll end up with a huge bait and switch that leads Rey to be the actual villain while perhaps Ren is drawn back to the light and is the true hero.
  
  This would be pretty cool.
  
  
• The EU: I know they have largely dismissed the EU, and I don't expect it to take hold. Really comes down to Rey's parentage. If she's Luke's daughter, I'll be curious to see the explanation. Also, HttE took place relatively soon after RotJ, so it's entirely possible they could fit that into the history.
  
  I think she's Luke's daughter, but wondering that details aronud it, or if Luke even knew of her whereabouts.  I could see the mother worried about Luke's failure with Kylo Ren and Ren possibly killing his other students, and wanting to shelter her from that.
  
  
• The Movie itself: I liked it better the second time than I did the first. I was watching looking for holes and reasons to not like it, so I'm encouraged by that. I felt like Poe's survival was a bit sloppy and rushed, and the map still irks me a bit. Total MacGuffin that R2 just happens to wake up at that precise moment (when BB-8 couldn't wake him up before with the same exact information about Luke) and just happens to have the rest of the map. But all in all, good movie. It did borrow heavily from the 4-6 trilogy, but it's a starting point.
  
  Can't remember clearly, but didn't Ren or Hux say they had the rest of the map, which is also why they needed BB-8's piece?  If so, how the hell did they get that, plug a flash drive into R2-D2 without anyone knowing?  Or did they expend all that effort for what would have been an unusable portion of the map?
  
  
  
• New Force Users: I am a bit disturbed how Rey picked up the Force so quickly when seemingly 5 minutes earlier she thought it was all a myth. Also, unless everything they ever said about Jedi was false, Finn is absolutely a force user. No way he is that good with a lightsaber otherwise. And I realize Rey was better, but here's a guy who's been a Stormtrooper for 5 minutes and been in one battle where he didn't fire a shot and suddenly he's holding his own with a lightsaber in a melee battle with a trained, veteran Stormtrooper, followed by holding his own for awhile against Kylo Ren, a trained Dark Jedi, to the point where he even wounded him. The moment Ren turned to Finn on Jakku, and subsequently immediately knew exactly that FN2198 was the Stormtrooper that betrayed him. Why? Because he sensed the light side in him.
  
  Agree, he's definitely a Force user. 
  
  
• See it twice: At least if you're a Star Wars junkie. I missed a lot the first time around. I also was unsure of the pacing the first time I watched it and much more satisfied the second time.

The marking of a good film, not a cluster the first time you see it, but worth multiple views.
[/quote]

[chapman]

Just saw it, read the thread. Thoughts coming later...but to those complaining about plot holes, someone mentioned it, but this will be bigger than the Marvel Universe.

We're talking solo story movies, TV spin offs, everything.

Disney needed JJ to play this one relatively safe to regain faith after The Phantom Menace bedcrapting. People love it and Disney will be blowing it all up.

Rogue One coming Dec 2016, Episode 8 May 2017, tentatively a Han movie in 2018, Episode 9 2019, tentative Boba Fett movie in 2020.  Deliver quality and cost won't be an issue to do anything and everything else.

[🏀]

Rogue One coming Dec 2016, Episode 8 May 2017, tentatively a Han movie in 2018, Episode 9 2019, tentative Boba Fett movie in 2020.  Deliver quality and cost won't be an issue to do anything and everything else.

Yeah, we knew about those, but I think there will be aggressive expansion beyond that slate.

[mu03eng]

Yeah, we knew about those, but I think there will be aggressive expansion beyond that slate.

Agreed, there will be movies made to fill the gaps between RotJ and TFA, potentially a lot of them.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

This just further proves the point that Abrams is really good at setting a story/scene but it's finishing where he has trouble. He did everything right, get people to buy into star wars again and set up a trilogy. The mystery and open endedness of it really reminded me of the first couple seasons of LOST.

[MU82]

Yeah, we knew about those, but I think there will be aggressive expansion beyond that slate.

I didn't know about 'em.

[HansMoleman]

This just further proves the point that Abrams is really good at setting a story/scene but it's finishing where he has trouble. He did everything right, get people to buy into star wars again and set up a trilogy. The mystery and open endedness of it really reminded me of the first couple seasons of LOST.

Speaking of unanswered questions!

[🏀]

Agreed, there will be movies made to fill the gaps between RotJ and TFA, potentially a lot of them.

I'm betting on a series, possibly HBO style, it'll be too much downtime for a cinematic release.

[mu03eng]

I'm betting on a series, possibly HBO style, it'll be too much downtime for a cinematic release.

Makes sense, that would be pretty cool