What REALLY happened after Markus went back into game

[4th and State]

If Wojo kept Markus on the bench for the last 8 minutes and we still lose the game, how would many of you on this board be acting then?  In my opinion, sitting a BE POY in that situation and to lose would be near a fireable offense.

Hindsight is 20/20 but you can’t sit Markus there.

[tower912]

Testify.   Benching  the BEPOY is only an option for morning after lamentations.

[MU82]

If Wojo kept Markus on the bench for the last 8 minutes and we still lose the game, how would many of you on this board be acting then?  In my opinion, sitting a BE POY in that situation and to lose would be near a fireable offense.

Hindsight is 20/20 but you can’t sit Markus there.

Exactly.

It would be like Torre not using Rivera in the 9th inning of a playoff game ... and then the Yankees losing.

I posted this in a different thread but it probably belongs here:

"I believe the reason Markus is playing point is
a) he's the best of a bad lot
b) Wojo truly wants to give him an NBA chance, and without PG skills, he's got no chance

IMHO it's time for the Markus @ point experiment to end, and move on to PG by committee while running Markus off screens as a true 2 guard.  I'd rather have Sacar or even Sam at PG than Markus.  When the other teams pressure, the press break (the one where guys pass to each other, not the one where Markus dribbles into a double team) is better for initiating the offense than Markus initiating the set offense without pressure. 

Many scouts have weighed in, and the The Athletic wrote a great article about it.  Markus is at best a fringe NBA talent and only in the perfect system.  Having him play the point any further - at the detriment of the team and it's further success - is a negative... ESPECIALLY now that all of the other BEAST teams have figure out how to stop him."

What I saw the other night - the eye test only, with no effort to support it by stats - is a workable scenario when Markus was out, and possibilities when he's in and plays off the ball.  Our worst offensive set is Markus at the top, with the ball, because he's too easy to guard one on one with a larger guard, and too reluctant to pass to the roll man on PNR, and struggles due to size to pass out of the double team. 

Wojo wants to win. Period.

If he thought those other options were better, he'd do just what you say.

"Our worst offensive set" has had two 8-game winning streaks and a 4-game winning streak, has delivered numerous Q1 wins including over Wisconsin, Kansas State, Buffalo and Nova, has helped us to 23 victories, has achieved at least second place in the Big East, etc.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

If Wojo kept Markus on the bench for the last 8 minutes and we still lose the game, how would many of you on this board be acting then?  In my opinion, sitting a BE POY in that situation and to lose would be near a fireable offense.

Hindsight is 20/20 but you can’t sit Markus there.

If there were only two choices you would be 100% correct. 

[GooooMarquette]

I think the point is that the crappy last 5 minutes wasn't foreseeable based on the first 35 minutes. Was Wojo supposed to know, based on the game up to that point, that Markus was going to finish poorly?

Given that Markus had played poorly most of the game, it wouldn’t take a great leap of prescience to expect it to continue. So yes, I would have given the others the chance to finish it up.

[vogue65]

Given that Markus had played poorly most of the game, it wouldn’t take a great leap of prescience to expect it to continue. So yes, I would have given the others the chance to finish it up.

I reluctantly must agree.  It seems to me that with Markus in the game the team plays at a slightly faster tempo and that throws everything off.  I like fast tempo, who doesn't, but this team is not capable of playing up tempo.  They can mostly hold there owne on defense, but on offense they panic when they speed it up.

The ill advised early in the time clock shots are indicative of panic, the short circuit of their better judgement.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Given that Markus had played poorly most of the game, it wouldn’t take a great leap of prescience to expect it to continue. So yes, I would have given the others the chance to finish it up.

Monday morning quarterbacking at its finest.

[GooooMarquette]

Monday morning Wednesday evening quarterbacking at its finest.

FIFY. When he put Markus back in, I looked at my wife and said "why is he putting him back in?"

From the threads, it's apparent I wasn't the only one....

[vogue65]

Monday morning quarterbacking at its finest.

Yes, nevertheless, when you are ahead you need defense, when your behind you need offense.  There are three games within a game.  The opening game, the start of the second half game and end game. 

As I see it the problem is not Markus, it is end game tempo.

[lawdog77]

Given that Markus had played poorly most of the game, it wouldn’t take a great leap of prescience to expect it to continue. So yes, I would have given the others the chance to finish it up.

Uh...no..there are plenty of games where Markus had been playing subpar, and then boom..he scores a quick 10 points.

[GooooMarquette]

Uh...no..there are plenty of games where Markus had been playing subpar, and then boom..he scores a quick 10 points.

Great analysis, and would be apropos if we were behind.

But we didn't need a quick 10 points...we needed to maintain the rhythm, confidence and cohesiveness we had maintained while he was out.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Great analysis, and would be apropos if we were behind.

But we didn't need a quick 10 points...we needed to maintain the rhythm, confidence and cohesiveness we had maintained while he was out.

But the lead had already started to shrink, and then actually stopped shrinking and actually grew a little bit when he first came in.

[MU82]

Great analysis, and would be apropos if we were behind.

But we didn't need a quick 10 points...we needed to maintain the rhythm, confidence and cohesiveness we had maintained while he was out.

You mean the rhythm, confidence and cohesiveness that just resulted in SH scoring 5 points in about 20 seconds to cut a 13-point deficit to 8?

[GooooMarquette]

You mean the rhythm, confidence and cohesiveness that just resulted in SH scoring 5 points in about 20 seconds to cut a 13-point deficit to 8?

No, the rhythm that had increased the lead overall despite the fact that our best player had been on the bench.

Look, I'm done here. There are too many apologists who won't question anything Wojo does, and on the other side too many naysayers who want to rip him any chance they get. I am neither - I love Wojo and what he has done for the program, and hope he is at MU for a long time. And I rarely question his strategic moves, even when others do. But in the flow of this game and with the way Markus had played, I believed (both at the time, and in hindsight) that he made the wrong decision on Sunday.

[NickelDimer]

No, the rhythm that had increased the lead overall despite the fact that our best player had been on the bench.

Look, I'm done here. There are too many apologists who won't question anything Wojo does, and on the other side too many naysayers who want to rip him any chance they get. I am neither - I love Wojo and what he has done for the program, and hope he is at MU for a long time. And I rarely question his strategic moves, even when others do. But in the flow of this game and with the way Markus had played, I believed (both at the time, and in hindsight) that he made the wrong decision on Sunday.

And you are correct on all fronts

[Mods, Delete me please. 8/26/2020]

Sam was white-hot most of the game, almost entirely within the flow of the offense.   Markus comes in, throws up a couple bad shots out of flow, Sam throws up a few garbage shots of his own, out of flow.  Is it possible Markus being in at the end killed Sam’s rhythm?   Sam was feeling it, but also knows Markus is going to take his shots and that Markus has been garbage all game.   So could it be that Sam, knowing he was the best player on the court at the time, and knowing that Markus would kill the game-flow anyway decided that as long as he had the hot-hand it should be him putting up those type of shots?   I could be wrong, but didn’t Sam’s late-game decline coincide with Markus’ return to the court?  Yes, the OP presents a reasoned argument and yes, how do you keep a potential POY off the court, but it just doesn’t seem to pass the smell-test.   I think Markus’ return killed Sam’s momo and completely took him off his game, thus destroying any flow they had going up to that point.   Add useless Joey and Miles Powell butthole-shots and we see the result. 

[MU82]

No, the rhythm that had increased the lead overall despite the fact that our best player had been on the bench.

Look, I'm done here. There are too many apologists who won't question anything Wojo does, and on the other side too many naysayers who want to rip him any chance they get. I am neither - I love Wojo and what he has done for the program, and hope he is at MU for a long time. And I rarely question his strategic moves, even when others do. But in the flow of this game and with the way Markus had played, I believed (both at the time, and in hindsight) that he made the wrong decision on Sunday.

Even though I disagree, I respect this, Goooo. Have a good one.

[rocky_warrior]

From the threads, it's apparent I wasn't the only one....

Yup, thought the same live.  Or rather said "Oh crap, he put Markus back in".  I get it, others disagree with me.  And it doesn't mean I'm trashing Wojo or Markus.  Just was the wrong decision in this game.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Look, I'm done here. There are too many apologists who won't question anything Wojo does, and on the other side too many naysayers who want to rip him any chance they get. I am neither - I love Wojo and what he has done for the program, and hope he is at MU for a long time. And I rarely question his strategic moves, even when others do. But in the flow of this game and with the way Markus had played, I believed (both at the time, and in hindsight) that he made the wrong decision on Sunday.

[Mike Deane's Seat Belt]

The other teams have figured out our "tell" plain and simple.  expect the same type of ball from teams that are quick enough / long enough to play that way. 

We have zero answer without a true PG and unless we are raining 3s at an unconscious level we will be lucky to make it to the second weekend.

[dgies9156]

We win as a team

We lose as a team.

Simple. Clear, Easy.

We should have won. We didn't.

Move on.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The other teams have figured out our "tell" plain and simple.  expect the same type of ball from teams that are quick enough / long enough to play that way. 

We have zero answer without a true PG and unless we are raining 3s at an unconscious level we will be lucky to make it to the second weekend.

What same type of play? All three losses used very different game plans

[MU82]

What same type of play? All three losses used very different game plans

Yep.

And the opponents' brilliant game plans didn't prevent us from having the lead in each game with just a few minutes to play.

Early in the season, we won some very close games. Made a shot here, a defensive play there, got big buckets from Markus and Sam, a big put-back from Ed, an enormous break from Creighton and the refs, etc. The last 3 games, we've shot ourselves in the foot down the stretch, couldn't make a shot, turned the ball over, got burned by both a star (Powell) and a one-hit wonder (Samuels), perhaps didn't coach quite as well. Reminds me a little of the 2010 and 2011 teams, which both won and lost a shyteload of close games (except this year's team has won more of 'em.)

But yeah, sure, there is some incredible blueprint to beating us now that didn't exist 10 days ago.

I just wonder why that incredible blueprint didn't stop us from getting a 13-point lead at Seton Hall or from having a great shot to win a road game against the defending national champs.

[Cheeks]

Yep.

And the opponents' brilliant game plans didn't prevent us from having the lead in each game with just a few minutes to play.

You see, the other teams know our game plan plain and simple, but they are willing to trail most of the game so as not to tip off our side or anyone else.  Then they wait until the last five minutes to Spring their counter measures so we can not recover in time.  Don’t you guys understand?

Hopefully teal was not needed.

[Class71]

The team lost. That is what matters. Wojo needs to fix it if he has any hope for the end of the season.