MU MBB Futures - Buying or Selling?

[Benny B]

So we've see four months of Wojo, the freshmen, and DuWil in action.  We know the 2015 recruiting class coming in, pending a late addition or two.  The only thing we haven't seen is elder Ellenson.

So who's long on Marquette?  Who's short?  Who's buying?  Who's selling?

Over/under on 2015-16 losses?  Benny's paying -110 on +/-7.5
Odds of MU winning the Big East regular season next year?  Benny's paying 9:2
Over/under on MU's 2015-16 preseason ranking? Benny's paying -110 on +/-#21
Odds of MU returning to, and staying in, the upper three of the Big East for the next 3 years?  Benny's paying 12:1
Over/under on Sweet 16 appearances in the next 5 years? Benny's paying -110 on +/-2.5
Over/under on Final Four appearances in the next 5 years? Benny's paying -110 on +/-1.5
Over/under on National Championships in the next 10 years? Benny's paying -450 on -0.5, +190 on +0.5

Who wants some of this action (I say rhetorically, knowing that bookmaking on Scoop is illegal)?  You've got 100 ScoopBucks... what's your fancy?

[LloydsLegs]

I don't speak gambling, but I'm buying.  I think the program blossoms in 2016-17 rather than next year, though.  Two years of Wojo recruits (with HE as a sophmore), plus Luke, Duane, Sandy and maybe JJJ.

[Lennys Tap]

So we've see four months of Wojo, the freshmen, and DuWil in action.  We know the 2015 recruiting class coming in, pending a late addition or two.  The only thing we haven't seen is elder Ellenson.

So who's long on Marquette?  Who's short?  Who's buying?  Who's selling?

Over/under on 2015-16 losses?  Benny's paying -110 on +/-7.5
Odds of MU winning the Big East regular season next year?  Benny's paying 9:2
Over/under on MU's 2015-16 preseason ranking? Benny's paying -110 on +/-#21
Odds of MU returning to, and staying in, the upper three of the Big East for the next 3 years?  Benny's paying 12:1
Over/under on Sweet 16 appearances in the next 5 years? Benny's paying -110 on +/-2.5
Over/under on Final Four appearances in the next 5 years? Benny's paying -110 on +/-1.5
Over/under on National Championships in the next 10 years? Benny's paying -450 on -0.5, +190 on +0.5

Who wants some of this action (I say rhetorically, knowing that bookmaking on Scoop is illegal)?  You've got 100 ScoopBucks... what's your fancy?

Benny, you are MUCH more bullish on next year (and future years) than me. But I'd gladly lose every one of my bets - Go Warriors!

[copious1218]

So we've see four months of Wojo, the freshmen, and DuWil in action.  We know the 2015 recruiting class coming in, pending a late addition or two.  The only thing we haven't seen is elder Ellenson.

So who's long on Marquette?  Who's short?  Who's buying?  Who's selling?

Over/under on 2015-16 losses?  Benny's paying -110 on +/-7.5
Odds of MU winning the Big East regular season next year?  Benny's paying 9:2
Over/under on MU's 2015-16 preseason ranking? Benny's paying -110 on +/-#21
Odds of MU returning to, and staying in, the upper three of the Big East for the next 3 years?  Benny's paying 12:1
Over/under on Sweet 16 appearances in the next 5 years? Benny's paying -110 on +/-2.5
Over/under on Final Four appearances in the next 5 years? Benny's paying -110 on +/-1.5
Over/under on National Championships in the next 10 years? Benny's paying -450 on -0.5, +190 on +0.5

Who wants some of this action (I say rhetorically, knowing that bookmaking on Scoop is illegal)?  You've got 100 ScoopBucks... what's your fancy?

I think we definitely lose more than 7.5 games next year so I guess I'm putting 100 ScoopBucks on the over.

[GooooMarquette]

I'm not up on the gambling lingo either, but I am confident Wojo will move MU in the right direction.  

We will be more talented next season, but I'm concerned that we might not have enough experience or a true point guard.  I think the significant bump will come in 2016-17, when Wojo will have a second full class of recruits.

[4th and State]

Easily buying.  Duane is already proving he can be a go-to-guy as a Freshman.  Luke has tons of potential, and Sandy looks better each game.  I expect next years team will show flashes of greatness followed by some bad losses, but definitely better than this years team (.500 or better conference record).

I agree, 16-17 is the year they can put it all together for a deep run.

[Goose]

Henry is going to make Luke a better player and we are losing two guys that struggle offensively more often than not. If we keep the guys we have coming back and add a Juco I am a buyer. Wojo's coaching does not worry me a bit. The two previous guys could not coach a lick but could recruit. Thus far on paper Wojo trumps those two in recruiting.

[HutchwasClutch]

Henry is going to make Luke a better player and we are losing two guys that struggle offensively more often than not. If we keep the guys we have coming back and add a Juco I am a buyer. Wojo's coaching does not worry me a bit. The two previous guys could not coach a lick but could recruit. Thus far on paper Wojo trumps those two in recruiting.

Wojo trumps his most recent predecessors as a human being also.  By quite a bit too.  He's a class guy all the way and he's going to win and win the right way here (and win a lot I might add).   To the handful of idiots who have all these gripes about him in the midst of a season where the whole world knew we were going to struggle, I have a message for you, please stay away from the bandwagon as he gets things rolling again.  We don't want to hear how two faced you'll be.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Over/under on 2015-16 losses?  Benny's paying -110 on +/-7.5
Odds of MU winning the Big East regular season next year?  Benny's paying 9:2
Over/under on MU's 2015-16 preseason ranking? Benny's paying -110 on +/-#21
Odds of MU returning to, and staying in, the upper three of the Big East for the next 3 years?  Benny's paying 12:1
Over/under on Sweet 16 appearances in the next 5 years? Benny's paying -110 on +/-2.5
Over/under on Final Four appearances in the next 5 years? Benny's paying -110 on +/-1.5
Over/under on National Championships in the next 10 years? Benny's paying -450 on -0.5, +190 on +0.5

Who wants some of this action (I say rhetorically, knowing that bookmaking on Scoop is illegal)?  You've got 100 ScoopBucks... what's your fancy?

Those are some crazy generous odds sir. I applaud your optimism. I think next year will feature a return to the NCAA tourney (assuming no major defections/injuries and we fill up our roster) but I think year 3 is when we start to see the results we want.

[Goose]

Hutch

No doubt on being a better person but do not forget this is a business, not a club team. The past two guys took MU to levels not seen in decades. I am not worried about Wojo as a coach and am confident he will do well. That said, he has a lot of work to do in a hurry. Programs can fall in a hurry and we have seen it at MU. Good guy or not, Wojo has his work cut out.

[HutchwasClutch]

Hutch

No doubt on being a better person but do not forget this is a business, not a club team. The past two guys took MU to levels not seen in decades. I am not worried about Wojo as a coach and am confident he will do well. That said, he has a lot of work to do in a hurry. Programs can fall in a hurry and we have seen it at MU. Good guy or not, Wojo has his work cut out.

Goose - I'm struggling mightily with what point your response is trying to get across.  Are you agreeing, disagreeing with me, what?

[Goose]

Hutch

I am agreeing he is a good guy. Just saying good guy and winning do not always go hand in hand. Actually it seems to me that the no so good guys often win more. For the record, Wojo is fine by me as person and coach.

[WarhawkWarrior]

I'm buying but hedging with a short on the Badgers

[bilsu]

I am selling, because Wojo seems to be lowering his recruiting targets. Part of it is the number of positions we need to fill because of transfers, but as in the past spring signings are usually a sign of desparation.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I am selling, because Wojo seems to be lowering his recruiting targets. Part of it is the number of positions we need to fill because of transfers, but as in the past spring signings are usually a sign of desparation.

You kind of answer your own point. Most of the top talent is already committed. The top talent that is uncommitted shortened their lists months ago. This point in the game is all about jucos, transfers, and late bloomers. I would be happy if Wojo grabbed one of each.

[Benny B]

Those are some crazy generous odds sir. I applaud your optimism. I think next year will feature a return to the NCAA tourney (assuming no major defections/injuries and we fill up our roster) but I think year 3 is when we start to see the results we want.

I'm merely trying to equal the action on both sides... and I know my audience.

[mu03eng]

I'm absolutely buying.

As I said in another thread, with next years team (assuming a veteran PG is found) I expect us to finish in the top half of the Big East, and play on Saturday/Sunday of opening weekend.

I, however, predict we will see an elite 8 next year.  I think people will forget about this team next year and will really have some great experience to build on next year.

[brewcity77]

I'm also buying. I'm not as bullish as mu03eng, largely because matchups can play such a huge factor, but with the right addition at PG I do believe we can be a top-4 seed as soon as next year. If I were predicting, I'd say we'll be top-4 in the league and in the tournament. I feel confident of both. But there are a lot of unanswered questions, starting with the remaining scholarships. Honestly, if we added someone like Nic Moore from SMU (pipe dream) and Henry was an impact from day one, we could realistically be looking at our best team since the Amigos senior season.

[Texas Western]

Wojo trumps his most recent predecessors as a human being also.  By quite a bit too.  He's a class guy all the way and he's going to win and win the right way here (and win a lot I might add).   To the handful of idiots who have all these gripes about him in the midst of a season where the whole world knew we were going to struggle, I have a message for you, please stay away from the bandwagon as he gets things rolling again.  We don't want to hear how two faced you'll be.

I respectfully disagree with you that Wojo is a class guy. A class guy would not have thrown Deonte under the bus. Wojo  has not shown any ability to inspire the team. There is no right or wrong way to win. A win is a win a loss is a loss. As Bill Parcells says, you are what your record says you are.

The Butler coach is 17-6.......

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I respectfully disagree with you that Wojo is a class guy. A class guy would not have thrown Deonte under the bus. Wojo  has not shown any ability to inspire the team. There is no right or wrong way to win. A win is a win a loss is a loss. As Bill Parcells says, you are what your record says you are.

The Butler coach is 17-6.......

Can you please go in detail about what you mean about "throwing Burton under the bus?" You've said it a couple of times but have never explained it beyond saying Wojo should have given him more playing time. To me, that is a very liberal interpretation of throwing someone under the bus. But if something else was going on, please feel free to share if you can. Because I've heard the exact opposite and that Burton was giving overwhelming support by Wojo and the entire team.

[MU1980]

Can you please go in detail about what you mean about "throwing Burton under the bus?" You've said it a couple of times but have never explained it beyond saying Wojo should have given him more playing time. To me, that is a very liberal interpretation of throwing someone under the bus. But if something else was going on, please feel free to share if you can. Because I've heard the exact opposite and that Burton was giving overwhelming support by Wojo and the entire team.

Every indication is that you are correct in saying Burton was given overwhelming support by Wojo and the team.  Texas Western has been "throwing Wojo under the bus" repeatedly in many different threads, with no facts or logic to support his claim.  In my opinion he is as bad as Ners is in terms of trying to get his or her point across in as many places as possible about how much he dislikes Wojo and what an awful person he is and how poorly he treats his players.  Not sure what his deal is and I tried to put him on ignore, but his posts are so often quoted because everyone wants to refute his statements.  TW, if you have any support to these claims, as some people think you do in terms of some link to one of the players, then show us why you think these outlandish statements are true.  Otherwise, please try and support our new coach and make arguments that make sense, such as Wojo needs to change his play calling at the end of the game, or something worth discussing.  Claiming our coach is "throwing people under the bus" is just way over the top, even if it is just an opinion. 

[avid1010]

So we've see four months of Wojo, the freshmen, and DuWil in action.  We know the 2015 recruiting class coming in, pending a late addition or two.  The only thing we haven't seen is elder Ellenson.

So who's long on Marquette?  Who's short?  Who's buying?  Who's selling?

Over/under on 2015-16 losses?  Benny's paying -110 on +/-7.5
Odds of MU winning the Big East regular season next year?  Benny's paying 9:2
Over/under on MU's 2015-16 preseason ranking? Benny's paying -110 on +/-#21
Odds of MU returning to, and staying in, the upper three of the Big East for the next 3 years?  Benny's paying 12:1
Over/under on Sweet 16 appearances in the next 5 years? Benny's paying -110 on +/-2.5
Over/under on Final Four appearances in the next 5 years? Benny's paying -110 on +/-1.5
Over/under on National Championships in the next 10 years? Benny's paying -450 on -0.5, +190 on +0.5

Who wants some of this action (I say rhetorically, knowing that bookmaking on Scoop is illegal)?  You've got 100 ScoopBucks... what's your fancy?

i think benny is offering easy money on many of those options, but i hope i'm wrong.  i do think wojo is going to be really good at MU...as productive as TC or BW without being a prick or nut job. 

out of curiosity...i don't do the fantasy sports thing because i don't take the time to follow many teams anymore, let alone an entire league, but could something be done on scoop specific to MU?  i'm sure someone knows a heck of a lot more about it but me, but it would be fun to see where everyone would stand over time on predictions from recruiting predictions, to minutes, wins/loses, player output, team output, conf standings, ncaa success, etc. perhaps a small membership fee would be required for that service...

[RushmoreAcademy]

I'll take the under on all three of the 16/final four/championship predictions, and I say that while still confident things will turn around next year.
Change that top 3 in the Beast to top 4 and I can be convinced.

[NersEllenson]

Those are some crazy generous odds sir. I applaud your optimism. I think next year will feature a return to the NCAA tourney (assuming no major defections/injuries and we fill up our roster) but I think year 3 is when we start to see the results we want.

I'm blown away by the optimism for next year's team.  Unless Wojo lands a STUD Juco Guard don't see anyway we don't lose 11+ games next year.  Even though by subtraction of Derrick and Juan, there is an addition - we lose Carlino too.  Take Carlino off of this current year's team and it is BEYOND ugly.

I don't expect much of anything from our freshman next season other than Henry.  Cohen will be an okay player as a sophomore, but he isn't going to be off the charts good.  Is JJJ still here?

Duane
Cohen
JJJ
Henry
Luke

I like that a hell of a lot better than Derrick, Duane, Carlino, Juan, Luke - yet I just don't see next year's team being much better than 19-12, 20-11.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Even though by subtraction of Derrick and Juan, there is an addition - we lose Carlino too. 

There is no such thing as addition by subtraction in sports unless attitude or off the court issues are involved. Unless you are saying that we will use their scholarships to sign better players. Any player is better than an empty scholarship.

[willie warrior]

So we've see four months of Wojo, the freshmen, and DuWil in action.  We know the 2015 recruiting class coming in, pending a late addition or two.  The only thing we haven't seen is elder Ellenson.

So who's long on Marquette?  Who's short?  Who's buying?  Who's selling?

Over/under on 2015-16 losses?  Benny's paying -110 on +/-7.5
Odds of MU winning the Big East regular season next year?  Benny's paying 9:2
Over/under on MU's 2015-16 preseason ranking? Benny's paying -110 on +/-#21
Odds of MU returning to, and staying in, the upper three of the Big East for the next 3 years?  Benny's paying 12:1
Over/under on Sweet 16 appearances in the next 5 years? Benny's paying -110 on +/-2.5
Over/under on Final Four appearances in the next 5 years? Benny's paying -110 on +/-1.5
Over/under on National Championships in the next 10 years? Benny's paying -450 on -0.5, +190 on +0.5

Who wants some of this action (I say rhetorically, knowing that bookmaking on Scoop is illegal)?  You've got 100 ScoopBucks... what's your fancy?

10 bucks says MU is over 7.5 losses next year
20 bucks on MU winning BEast next year--only if odds are 10-1
20 bucks on MU preseason ranking being #21 or lower next year--meaning their ranking will be unranked pre-season
10 bucks on Sweet 16 appearances being under 2.5 next 5 years
20 bucks on Under 1.5 for Final 4 in next 5 years
20 bucks says 1 National Championship in next 10 years.
Send me all the cash now.

[NersEllenson]

There is no such thing as addition by subtraction in sports unless attitude or off the court issues are involved. Unless you are saying that we will use their scholarships to sign better players. Any player is better than an empty scholarship.

Replacing highly ineffective players with more talented players is addition by subtraction.  Duane at PG will make this team much better.  Henry at the 4 will make next year's team much better.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Replacing highly ineffective players with more talented players is addition by subtraction.  Duane at PG will make this team much better.  Henry at the 4 will make next year's team much better.

Derrick is not getting replaced by Duane though. Duane is here now. If Duane was the better option, he would be getting Derrick's minutes at the point. Juan is also not getting replaced by Henry. We have open scholarships, if Juan had another year, he and Henry could both be on the team.

I do agree that addition by subtraction happens when you bring in a new better player with the scholarship of an old ineffective player. But that isn't happening, not yet. If Derrick and Juan are our two worst departing players, the only way it is addition by subtraction is if we fill the remaining three scholarships with three players that are better than Juan and Derrick.

Juan and Derrick are better than empty scholarships. I hope you would at least acknowledge that much.

[avid1010]

I respectfully disagree with you that Wojo is a class guy. A class guy would not have thrown Deonte under the bus. Wojo  has not shown any ability to inspire the team. There is no right or wrong way to win. A win is a win a loss is a loss. As Bill Parcells says, you are what your record says you are.

The Butler coach is 17-6.......

i respectfully ask you to provide one ounce of truth to the story that wojo threw deonte under the bus.  i've asked plenty of people connected to the program, as it wouldn't be a huge confidentiality issue...no one has said anything close to what you are claiming.  i get that it's a message board, but when you call a guy out for being a bad coach it's one thing...when you call a guy out for not supporting a student athlete during the time of his mother's death it's another. 

[MU1980]

i respectfully ask you to provide one ounce of truth to the story that wojo threw deonte under the bus.  i've asked plenty of people connected to the program, as it wouldn't be a huge confidentiality issue...no one has said anything close to what you are claiming.  i get that it's a message board, but when you call a guy out for being a bad coach it's one thing...when you call a guy out for not supporting a student athlete during the time of his mother's death it's another. 

TW likes to post a lot, but when asked to give any logical reason that he is throwing Wojo under the bus, he is nowhere to be found. 

[WarriorPride68]

I honestly have no idea, leaning towards unlikely. But...if enough people get in Henry's head @ McDubs game & Hoop summit. Could Henry hypothetically open up if he had a late change of heart (very unlikely) even though he has signed his LOI?



Edit: because I do not know the ncaa rule

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I honestly have no idea, leaning towards unlikely. But...if enough people get in Henry's head @ McDubs game & Hoop summit. Could Henry hypothetically open up if he had a late change of heart (very unlikely) even though he has signed his LOI?



Edit: because I do not know the ncaa rule

Rest easy. Henry is on his way. You have nothing to worry about.

If Henry wanted out of his LOI, it would be up to Marquette to grant him release. However, I can't imagine any situation where Marquette wouldn't grant him his release. Do you really want a player on your team who doesn't want to be there?