Sam Smith on D WADE--the dirtiest player???

[Hards Alumni]

If you actually read my earlier post, you'd have seen me say that Smith isn't immune to criticism, either. Nobody here is saying he is. Those of us who know who Smith is are just saying he deserves respect because he has earned it through his body of work. I don't know what you do for a living, but I hope you can say the same about yourself.

As for Smith being "afraid" to write the truth about Jordan, that's ridiculous. After "Jordan Rules," I was at press conferences in which Jordan refused to talk to Smith; it didn't bother Sam in the least. Most of us in the credible media weren't out to be Jordan's pal.

Sam's newspaper job was reporting the facts, and his book was quite a revelation at the time. Sure, it upset some M.J. fans, but it's not as if the check-out lady at the local Jewels refused to bag Sam's groceries because he had written his book. There wasn't some kind of hit out on Sam as if he were the NBA-writer version of Salman Rushdie.

I know I'd enjoy a follow-up by Smith -- or anybody else with inside knowledge -- tracking Jordan to the present.

I read what you said, but I wasn't responding to you.  Unless you are also, Niv.

[slingkong]

I might be dating myself as far as when I stopped watching NBA games, but I have no doubt that Isiah Thomas and John Stockton were by far the dirtiest players of their time.  I was always torn re. Thomas because I grew up a Hoosier fan (thankfully, I gave that up when I got to MU).

Anyway, Wade has a lot of equity with me and many other MU fans because of his couple of years of play and the relatively good example he has set in the NBA since 2003.  I still wish he'd cut out the crybaby and cheap shot crap and just play.  Of course, it is the NBA so that's just what happens and that's why I don't watch it - that and the slowness of the game.

[MerrittsMustache]

Heat played a tougher schedule than the Bulls.  They were the only team in the NBA to register double digit wins against the top 5 teams in the league.  http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/ranking/strength-of-schedule-by-team

They went to the Finals last year and will be the odds on favorites to represent the East this year despite opinions here and elsewhere to the contrary.

Remember the talk that even with Rose out they would win their first round series and could still win the title?  They couldn't even get out of the first round.  The regular season in the NBA is not where champions are made.  The Heat often looked bored.  They are the better team and the Bulls play against the 76ers only confirms it.

You did not say they were a failure.  Instead, you said it wasn't working for them and one of the big 3 had to be traded. "Wade, LeBron and Bosh don't fit together. They never did."   One season has you thinking they never did?  They make it to the NBA Finals and yet they don't fit together?  They'll likely make it again in 10 days and they don't fit together?  Then you go on to say you wouldn't be surprised to see the Heat win it this year because the NBA conspiracy office is going to make it happen.  Same things fans against the Bulls said during the Jordan era time and again. 

Again, I never said that one of the big 3 had to be traded nor did I say that the Heat would win only this season because of a conspiracy. You're obviously either looking for a fight by making things up or you're just not very bright and have limited reading comprehension skills.

[RawdogDX]

Heat played a tougher schedule than the Bulls.  They were the only team in the NBA to register double digit wins against the top 5 teams in the league.  http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/ranking/strength-of-schedule-by-team

They went to the Finals last year and will be the odds on favorites to represent the East this year despite opinions here and elsewhere to the contrary.

Remember the talk that even with Rose out they would win their first round series and could still win the title?  They couldn't even get out of the first round.  The regular season in the NBA is not where champions are made.  The Heat often looked bored.  They are the better team and the Bulls play against the 76ers only confirms it.

You did not say they were a failure.  Instead, you said it wasn't working for them and one of the big 3 had to be traded. "Wade, LeBron and Bosh don't fit together. They never did."   One season has you thinking they never did?  They make it to the NBA Finals and yet they don't fit together?  They'll likely make it again in 10 days and they don't fit together?  Then you go on to say you wouldn't be surprised to see the Heat win it this year because the NBA conspiracy office is going to make it happen.  Same things fans against the Bulls said during the Jordan era time and again. 

The bulls would have beat the sixers if noah didn't also get hurt. 

[RawdogDX]

Once a guy has his name in Hall of Fame, anything he writes should be treated as gospel?

That isn't what he's saying at all.  Why would we treat HOFers opinions like trumped up stories written down 100 years after the events in question.

[Hards Alumni]

That isn't what he's saying at all.  Why would we treat HOFers opinions like trumped up stories written down 100 years after the events in question.

[patso]

Wade was superlative last night.

[4everwarriors]

Wade was superlative last night.

Thank you Ms. Union.

[Norm]

I might be dating myself as far as when I stopped watching NBA games, but I have no doubt that Isiah Thomas and John Stockton were by far the dirtiest players of their time.  I was always torn re. Thomas because I grew up a Hoosier fan (thankfully, I gave that up when I got to MU).

Anyway, Wade has a lot of equity with me and many other MU fans because of his couple of years of play and the relatively good example he has set in the NBA since 2003.  I still wish he'd cut out the crybaby and cheap shot crap and just play.  Of course, it is the NBA so that's just what happens and that's why I don't watch it - that and the slowness of the game.

Isaiah Thomas wasn't even the dirtiest player on his team - Rick Mahorn took that title, followed by Bill Lambier. I've never heard anybody say John Stockton was a dirty player.

[RawdogDX]

Isaiah Thomas wasn't even the dirtiest player on his team - Rick Mahorn took that title, followed by Bill Lambier. I've never heard anybody say John Stockton was a dirty player.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/readers/dirtiest/players.html 
see #5.

[brewcity77]

Remember the talk that even with Rose out they would win their first round series and could still win the title?  They couldn't even get out of the first round.  The regular season in the NBA is not where champions are made.  The Heat often looked bored.  They are the better team and the Bulls play against the 76ers only confirms it.

Wow. In terms of NBA talk, that's possibly the stupidest thing ever written on this website. So the Bulls are going to be judged based on how they played not only without Rose, but without Noah as well? And let's not forget that this 76ers team has taken Boston to a Game 7, so while they may not be world-beaters, they aren't a bad team. Imagine how the Heat would be playing right now if they lost James as well. That's what happened to the Bulls when they lost both Rose and Noah. They lost their best and third best player. How the Bulls played against the 76ers confirms absolutely nothing, except that when a team loses two of their top three players and has to play against a playoff team, it's tough to win. If OKC lost Durant and Harden, if the Spurs lost Parker and Ginobli, or if Boston lost Rondo and Pierce, all of them would lose whatever series they were playing against a healthy playoff team, I don't care who it is.

Sorry, but when you go through the circumstances the Bulls did, that judgment is impossible to make. Would the Heat have beaten the Bulls this year? Possibly. I think that while the Bulls are clearly a better regular-season team, they're not as good a playoff team. But to say that because they lost to the Sixers under those circumstances that's the proof, that's just full-frontal-lobotomy level dumb.

[Hoopaloop]

Wow. In terms of NBA talk, that's possibly the stupidest thing ever written on this website. So the Bulls are going to be judged based on how they played not only without Rose, but without Noah as well? And let's not forget that this 76ers team has taken Boston to a Game 7, so while they may not be world-beaters, they aren't a bad team. Imagine how the Heat would be playing right now if they lost James as well. That's what happened to the Bulls when they lost both Rose and Noah. They lost their best and third best player. How the Bulls played against the 76ers confirms absolutely nothing, except that when a team loses two of their top three players and has to play against a playoff team, it's tough to win. If OKC lost Durant and Harden, if the Spurs lost Parker and Ginobli, or if Boston lost Rondo and Pierce, all of them would lose whatever series they were playing against a healthy playoff team, I don't care who it is.

Sorry, but when you go through the circumstances the Bulls did, that judgment is impossible to make. Would the Heat have beaten the Bulls this year? Possibly. I think that while the Bulls are clearly a better regular-season team, they're not as good a playoff team. But to say that because they lost to the Sixers under those circumstances that's the proof, that's just full-frontal-lobotomy level dumb.

Stupidest thing?  Posts in this very thread far exceeded anything I said for stupidity.

Did the Bulls lose at HOME in game two with Noah playing?  Yes, they did.  I cannot tell you how many people here in the city were saying after Rose went down that they would still win the series and still have a great shot to go to the Finals.  Yet the very next game they lost at home with Noah playing.  Noah went down in the 3rd quarter of game 3, which the Bulls also lost.   You give Boston much more praise then I do.  They aren't very good yet they keep letting Philadelphia hang around in this series.  I expect Miami, with or without Bosch to beat them in 6 or fewer games.  The Bulls were a good team, but not the best team in the East this year.  Unbalanced schedules. they performed much worse than the Heat did against the top teams and bowed out in the first round of the playoffs.  Injuries, yes, but they still went down to the 8 seed. 

Again, I never said that one of the big 3 had to be traded nor did I say that the Heat would win only this season because of a conspiracy. You're obviously either looking for a fight by making things up or you're just not very bright and have limited reading comprehension skills.

You have me there.  You are right, it was brewcity that said "On the other hand, one of the big three will probably be traded to try to coddle together a team rather than just a trio of stars and a collection of cast-offs."  I am sorry.

And if he had signed with the Bucks, a lot of people on here would love him. And if he had signed with the Knicks, then Knicks fans would love him and if he signed with (insert team), then (insert team) fans would have loved him. What's your point?

I couldn't stand Jim Edmonds when he played for the Cardinals, but when he signed with the Cubs, I cheered him on and hoped he did well even though I still thought he was an obnoxious guy. That's how being a fan works. We cheer for the guys on our teams.

Here is where we disagree, especially when that guy played for our university.  And yes, some fans are douches and act that way when a player moves to another team.  They are incapable of separating what they did for their team. I’ll bet the correlation is striking when a coach leaves as well. Others of us cheer for our teams but are capable of not being haters of other players that moved on.

There is a difference.

I saw today that Urlacher might leave.  If he does, he does.  It would be disappointing but it is part of life.   I'd thank him for his play for the Bears, but I extend no ill will if he choose to play elsewhere.  Life is too short to be hating all the time.  LeBron left, but he gave Cleveland their first taste of good basketball in what seems like forever.  Crean left, but he gave us our first pinnacle success point in 30 years.  Wade decided not to become a Bull and now he’s a douche but Rodman as a Bull was applauded for his doucheness?  Some people can move on and others cannot.

That's true, but it would still be the same by the rest of the country.

We agree and I said as much.  I believe I said the Chicago Bulls fans are similar to other fan bases.  They are all hypocritical.  Lakers fans with Shaq while he was on the team, then attitudes about him when he was off the team were different (just as they were prior to joining when he was with the Magic).  Cavs fans when Lebron was on the Cavs and then when he wasn’t on the Cavs a different reaction.   Bulls fans with the idea of Lebron coming to Chicago or Wade coming to Chicago, then their attitude when they both didn’t.  Feel free to insert any number of other examples.

Did not say they were any different, merely pointing out the hypocrisy in this case about Wade here on Scoop and Sam Smith only feeds into that with his column.  When the prodigal son doesn’t return, pile on.  If he had returned, no such anger.  Hero time.  As a fan of Wade for what he did at Marquette, people should be surprised when those of us that aren't Bulls fans are going to point out that hypocrisy.

[RawdogDX]

Did not say they were any different, merely pointing out the hypocrisy in this case about Wade here on Scoop and Sam Smith only feeds into that with his column. 

Yes you did.  It was another thread but you just said:
"Bulls fans in particular are incredible hypocrites"

[MU82]

MJ love(d)(s) the white women.

Me too. So what's your point?

[brewcity77]

Stupidest thing?  Posts in this very thread far exceeded anything I said for stupidity.

Did the Bulls lose at HOME in game two with Noah playing?  Yes, they did.  I cannot tell you how many people here in the city were saying after Rose went down that they would still win the series and still have a great shot to go to the Finals.  Yet the very next game they lost at home with Noah playing.  Noah went down in the 3rd quarter of game 3, which the Bulls also lost.   You give Boston much more praise then I do.  They aren't very good yet they keep letting Philadelphia hang around in this series.  I expect Miami, with or without Bosch to beat them in 6 or fewer games.  The Bulls were a good team, but not the best team in the East this year.  Unbalanced schedules. they performed much worse than the Heat did against the top teams and bowed out in the first round of the playoffs.  Injuries, yes, but they still went down to the 8 seed.

Still completely inane to compare the Bulls without Rose and Noah to the Heat without Bosh, or any of the teams that are completely healthy. If the Heat had lost James the first game of the playoffs they wouldn't be playing right now. Take the top two off any other team when the Bulls lost Rose and Noah and they'd be out too.

Sorry, but the comparison remains completely ridiculous. The Bulls also dominated Philly in Game 1 with Rose. So if he stays healthy, there's every chance they'd still be playing. But while I have no problem pointing out the ludicrous argument that the Bulls play against the Sixers proves they weren't as good as the Heat, I also don't think that their play with Rose against the Sixers is definitive proof that they were the best. Neither is conclusive. The only thing that would have been to evaluate how well the teams did if both stayed healthy. Didn't happen, so the analysis simply cannot be made.

[nycwarrior]

Maybe there's something there. Maybe not.

Here's a clip of Dr. J and Larry Bird taking their share of cheap shots at each other. Especially the Good Doc.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=u4oF34p3-rQ

[MerrittsMustache]

We agree and I said as much.  I believe I said the Chicago Bulls fans are similar to other fan bases.  They are all hypocritical.  Lakers fans with Shaq while he was on the team, then attitudes about him when he was off the team were different (just as they were prior to joining when he was with the Magic).  Cavs fans when Lebron was on the Cavs and then when he wasn’t on the Cavs a different reaction.   Bulls fans with the idea of Lebron coming to Chicago or Wade coming to Chicago, then their attitude when they both didn’t.  Feel free to insert any number of other examples.

Honestly, I think your whole argument is off-base because I don't know of one Bulls fan (I grew up in the Chicago area and can't even count the number of Bulls fans I know) who holds it against Wade or dislikes Wade because he met with the Bulls but didn't sign with Chicago. If anything, NBA fans root against Wade because they don't like the team he plays for.

[bamamarquettefan]

First he was soft and a flopper, now the same people accuse him of being mean and hurting people. They all really wish he played for them deep down.

[bamamarquettefan]

Magic said tonight that the pacers strategy of trying to take shots at the heat and get in their face and rough them up didn't work so the celtics shouldn't do the same.

This is where I don't see how people complain about them wade being a crybaby. A team was targeting them, but I didn't see wade cry after Hansbrough took him down and then exchanged 5 with the guy who'd given haslem 9 stitches the night before.  I understand people complaining if they though the heat overreacted to make the pacers stop taking cheap shots, but I dont see how you can call them crybabies in that series.

Pittman was way out of line, you dont repay a choke sign with a flying elbow, but the reactions are just spin to get the next call. I didn't see wade crying, I saw haslem letting the pacers know that if they were going to try to take out wade and lebron there was going to be retaliation.

[sarcastro]

Not everybody in the NBA can be as classy as Danny Granger was during the Heat/Pacers series

[MUEng92]

Being a huge Dr. J fan at the time, I am entirely certain Bird deserved to be held down by Barkley while Dr. J punched him.  In fact, they let him off easy not bringing Moses in.

[Hoopaloop]

Honestly, I think your whole argument is off-base because I don't know of one Bulls fan (I grew up in the Chicago area and can't even count the number of Bulls fans I know) who holds it against Wade or dislikes Wade because he met with the Bulls but didn't sign with Chicago. If anything, NBA fans root against Wade because they don't like the team he plays for.

You weren't listening to the SCORE on July 7th when he made his announcement to rebuff the Bulls.  Check out the message boards.   

I am no fan of the Heat, but I am a fan of Dwyane Wade.  I'm perfectly capable of cheering for Wade to do well but not cheer for the Heat.  I do not have any love for the Knicks, Blazers, etc, but find a way to hope Novak, Wes, Doc do well because of their Marquette connections. 

Yes you did.  It was another thread but you just said:
"Bulls fans in particular are incredible hypocrites"

Doesn't make other fans non-hypocrites which is what I argued.  All fans are hypocrites, some more than others. I'd put the Bulls in that category for Rodman alone.  Other teams haven't had a complete douche like Rodman on their squad and shown unlimiting love for the guy while then calling someone like D-Wade a douche.    That was the example.  It would be like Pistons fans (with Lambeer, etc) doing the same thing.  They fit the same class.  Would I put the Hawks fans at the same level of hypocrisy?  Clippers?  T-Wolves?  Probably not.  So yes, in particular (along with some other teams), the Bulls fans stand out.

Still completely inane to compare the Bulls without Rose and Noah to the Heat without Bosh, or any of the teams that are completely healthy. If the Heat had lost James the first game of the playoffs they wouldn't be playing right now. Take the top two off any other team when the Bulls lost Rose and Noah and they'd be out too.

Noah played in 3 games.  Bulls lost 2 of the 3.  Do I think if Noah played in the entire series they would have won?  Most likely they would have.  Do I think with or without Rose they would have beaten the Heat?  No, I do not.  I'm not blinded by Bulls glasses.

[RawdogDX]

You weren't listening to the SCORE on July 7th when he made his announcement to rebuff the Bulls.  Check out the message boards.   

We aren't talking about how people got mad two years ago, we talking about how you want fans to 'get over it' today.  And how you think there is something special about chicago because they cheered for a guy 13 years ago(who was on their team) and now boo their biggest rival.

All fans are hypocrites, some more than others. I'd put the Bulls in that category for Rodman alone.  Why, what about rodman was special?  Name one city that didn't love a player that brought national championships.  Other teams haven't had a complete douche like Rodman on their squad and shown unlimiting love (bullcrap) for the guy while then calling someone like D-Wade a douche.  That was the example.  It would be like Pistons fans (with Lambeer, etc) doing the same thing.  And utah with malone/Stockton, 4 different teams with horry, Seattle with paton, indiana with miller, nyc with starks, suns with barkley, ron artest, bruce bowen... They fit the same class.  Would I put the Hawks fans at the same level of hypocrisy?  Clippers?  T-Wolves?  Probably not.  So the only teams you can name are ones that haven't won anything!  What a joke.

You are mad because fans of a team don't like their biggest rival.  This is the most ridiculous argument i've ever seen.  The WI inferiority complex people aren't even on your side.  Rodman played 13 years ago, maybe you should get over it.

[Hoopaloop]

You are mad because fans of a team don't like their biggest rival.  This is the most ridiculous argument i've ever seen.  The WI inferiority complex people aren't even on your side.  Rodman played 13 years ago, maybe you should get over it.

That is not my argument.  All fans are hypocrites, Bulls more so than other fans.  That is what I am saying.  That, and Wade isn't a douche, isn't a dirty player and for Bulls fans here or Smith in a column to say so and ignore their past is low.

[Lennys Tap]

That is not my argument.  All fans are hypocrites, Bulls more so than other fans.  That is what I am saying.  That, and Wade isn't a douche, isn't a dirty player and for Bulls fans here or Smith in a column to say so and ignore their past is low.

So you, someone who hates the Bulls, "objectively" determines that their fans are bigger hypocrites than other fans (such as yourself). Dumbest argument ever.