Football Ratings Are Down

[Tugg Speedman]

Kap's not getting suspended.

Abdul-Rauf was suspended three years after he started.  If Kap keeps at it long enough, say into late next year (assuming he is not cut first) they will eventually take action on him.

Question is whether he goes that long.

[mu03eng]

Abdul-Rauf was suspended three years after he started.  If Kap keeps at it long enough, say into late next year (assuming he is not cut first) they will eventually take action on him.

Question is whether he goes that long.

We live in the #woke period, no way he ever gets suspended

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

So is he NBA a bunch of fascists dictators?

Yes.

Again, think about what you are asking for. You are asking that someone be forced against their will to participate in a show of loyalty to the country. I'm well aware that the private companies have the ability. That doesn't mean that they should use it.

[Lennys Tap]

Yes.

Again, think about what you are asking for. You are asking that someone be forced against their will to participate in a show of loyalty to the country. I'm well aware that the private companies have the ability. That doesn't mean that they should use it.

It is certainly a defensible position (maybe even a wise one) to opine that the NBA owners shouldn't enforce compliance with a rule within their rights to make and enforce.

But calling them "fascist dictators" because you don't like the rule? Kinda crazy talk, aina?

[Pakuni]

Abdul-Rauf was suspended three years after he started.  If Kap keeps at it long enough, say into late next year (assuming he is not cut first) they will eventually take action on him.

Question is whether he goes that long.

No, Abdul-Rauf was not suspended three years.
He was suspended one game.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

It is certainly a defensible position (maybe even a wise one) to opine that the NBA owners shouldn't enforce compliance with a rule within their rights to make and enforce.

But calling them "fascist dictators" because you don't like the rule? Kinda crazy talk, right?

Allow me to rephrase it the way I originally did. That is something you would expect to hear about in a country with a fascist dictator. Not in the United States.

[Tugg Speedman]

No, Abdul-Rauf was not suspended three years.
He was suspended one game.

Suspended three years after he started the protest.  Yes suspended for 1 game as the NBA struck a deal with him.

[Pakuni]

Suspended three years after he started the protest.  Yes suspended for 1 game as the NBA struck a deal with him.

No, he was never suspended for three years. He was suspended one game, and then the NBA struck a deal with him.

[mu03eng]

No, he was never suspended for three years. He was suspended one game, and then the NBA struck a deal with him.

I think you need to read what Jesse is saying.....3 years after he started the protest he was suspended for a single game.

[GGGG]

Allow me to rephrase it the way I originally did. That is something you would expect to hear about in a country with a fascist dictator. Not in the United States.

Let's see if you can say that in 21 days.

[Lennys Tap]

Allow me to rephrase it the way I originally did. That is something you would expect to hear about in a country with a fascist dictator. Not in the United States.

Comparing what a private business demands of people they are paying with what a dictator demands of people for simply existing in a country is still off the wall.

For years the New York Yankees had a ban on facial hair. Silly maybe, but hardly "fascist". If President Obama told Colin Kapernick he couldn't speak out on the issues of the day, grow a beard or burn the flag you would have an argument. As it is you're over the top.

[Pakuni]

I think you need to read what Jesse is saying.....3 years after he started the protest he was suspended for a single game.

Wait ... so he's saying Mahmoud-Rauf protested for three years, then was suspended for a game?
OK. Not sure that's accurate, but if that's what he's saying it, then I misread his post.

According to these stories at least, Mahmoud-Rauf began his protest during the 95-96 season, the same year he was suspended.

http://fusion.net/story/341512/mahmoud-abdul-rauf-colin-kaepernick/

http://theundefeated.com/features/abdul-rauf-doesnt-regret-sitting-out-national-anthem/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mahmoud-abdul-rauf_us_56e7422ce4b0b25c91830a2b

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Comparing what a private business demands of people they are paying with what a dictator demands of people for simply existing in a country is still off the wall.

For years the New York Yankees had a ban on facial hair. Silly maybe, but hardly "fascist". If President Obama told Colin Kapernick he couldn't speak out on the issues of the day, grow a beard or burn the flag you would have an argument. As it is you're over the top.

I'm really not. It doesn't matter if it's a private business or a political figure demanding it. It is still someone being compelled against their will to stand for the national anthem under threat of fines or termination from their job. Take the who out of it. It just seems kind of scary to me.

Comparing a facial hair ban to forcing someone to participate in a political statement...now THAT'S over the top

[Tugg Speedman]

I'm really not. It doesn't matter if it's a private business or a political figure demanding it. It is still someone being compelled against their will to stand for the national anthem under threat of fines or termination from their job. Take the who out of it. It just seems kind of scary to me.

Comparing a facial hair ban to forcing someone to participate in a political statement...now THAT'S over the top

Not a made up rule.  It is a clause in the NBA players contract that was negotiated by the players union.  Perfectly legal and acceptable.  That is the rule you agree to when you sign.

Nothing wrong or facists about it. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Not a made up rule.  It is a clause in the NBA players contract that was negotiated by the players union.  Perfectly legal and acceptable.  That is the rule you agree to when you sign.

Nothing wrong or facists about it.

For the third time. I am perfectly aware that it is a rule in the NBA and that private companies have the right to do it. I get it. What I am asking you to do is take the who out of it. Just focus on what it is you are advocating for. Doesn't the concept of someone being forced against their will to participate in the national anthem under threat of fines and termination make you uncomfortable? Even a little bit? It certainly makes me feel very squeamish.

[Babybluejeansfan]

The owners are starting to crack and reveal their true feelings about the protests and impact on TV ratings




“I think it’s the wrong venue,” Indianapolis Colts owner Jim Irsay told USA TODAY Sports. “It hasn’t been a positive thing. What we all have to be aware of as players, owners, PR people, equipment managers, is when the lights go on we are entertainment. We are being paid to put on a show. There are other places to express yourself.”

Irsay’s view is undoubtedly shared by other owners who frown on the protests drawing attention from their product. Given the intense backlash against Kaepernick, it’s plausible that people have turned away to protest the protests.

“People come to the game because they want to get away from what’s happening in their everyday lives,” McNair said. “When you bring those types of things into the scene, yeah, it will turn some people off. But the main thing we try to do is to say, ‘We recognize your concern. Let’s do something about it.’ "


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/columnist/bell/2016/10/18/nfl-television-tv-ratings-down-election/92388304/

[Lennys Tap]

Comparing a facial hair ban to forcing someone to participate in a political statement...now THAT'S over the top

The NBA doesn't stop their players from protesting perceived social injustices. Want to go to Ferguson, Baltimore, New York or Charlotte? Carry a "Hands up, Don't Shoot" sign or chant "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon"? Do interviews on racial injustices? No problem.

But while at work, wearing your uniform and getting paid the players are expected to stand for both our and the Canadian national anthems. Boo Hoo. Doesn't make me squeamish at all. I think somebody telling me to shave my beard or mustache (which affects me away from work, too) is much more onerous.

[Pakuni]

The NBA doesn't stop their players from protesting perceived social injustices. Want to go to Ferguson, Baltimore, New York or Charlotte? Carry a "Hands up, Don't Shoot" sign or chant "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon"? Do interviews on racial injustices? No problem.

But while at work, wearing your uniform and getting paid the players are expected to stand for both our and the Canadian national anthems. Boo Hoo. Doesn't make me squeamish at all. I think somebody telling me to shave my beard or mustache (which affects me away from work, too) is much more onerous.

It's all a moot point, really.
The chances that Adam Silver will punish any player for protesting during the anthem is pretty much zero.

[Lennys Tap]

It's all a moot point, really.
The chances that Adam Silver will punish any player for protesting during the anthem is pretty much zero.

Agreed. But the point isn't whether they'll enforce the laws on their books - it's whether enforcing them would make them fascists.

[Pakuni]

Agreed. But the point isn't whether they'll enforce the laws on their books - it's whether enforcing them would make them fascists.

It wouldn't make them fascists.
It would make them idiots.

[Tugg Speedman]

The NBA doesn't stop their players from protesting perceived social injustices. Want to go to Ferguson, Baltimore, New York or Charlotte? Carry a "Hands up, Don't Shoot" sign or chant "Pigs in a blanket, fry 'em like bacon"? Do interviews on racial injustices? No problem.

But while at work, wearing your uniform and getting paid the players are expected to stand for both our and the Canadian national anthems. Boo Hoo. Doesn't make me squeamish at all. I think somebody telling me to shave my beard or mustache (which affects me away from work, too) is much more onerous.

Not squeamish at all.  It is a rule noted BEFORE you sign your contract.  If you are bothered by it, you're welcome to find another line of work that does not have this rule.

Now I will grant you if they change in mid-stream, like the NFL would have to do with Kap, that is a bit more problematic.  That is why I think the NFL wants this to end (even if they have to cut Kap) and then impose the Anthem protest ban before the next protest begins.

Question for TAMU ...

Do you think it was a bit fascist that the NFL punished Ray Rice for the incident in the Elevator?  It was the OFF-SEASON!  What he does on his time, and even if that includes slapping around his wife, is his business.  We have law enforcement and courts to deal with this, as long as it does not affect his job, and being this was the OFF-SEASON it did not, his employer should not be involved.

Note, the NFL has the right to intrude into Ray Rice's relationship with his wife because his contract has a morals clause, that was approved by the NFLPA.

Bottom line, almost everyone has rules imposed upon them by an employer that a Government could never do.  They include, forced confinement in an office between 9 and 5.  Denial of freedom of expression by imposing a dress code.  Getting into one's bedroom be banning office romances.  Censorship on your employer supplied computer to various websites that your employer wants to block (everything from Facebook to porn sites) mandatory drug testing, regulating your speech when speaking to customers, even going as far as giving you an employer created script and force you to read them to customers and on and on.

I guess I don't see the protest ban, WHILE AT WORK AND USING EMPLOYER RESOURCES TO SUBJECT CUSTOMERS TO IT, as any different.

[Lennys Tap]

It wouldn't make them fascists.
It would make them idiots.

Two distinctly different things.

[Lennys Tap]

Not squeamish at all.  It is a rule noted BEFORE you sign your contract.  If you are bothered by it, you're welcome to find another line of work that does not have this rule.

Now I will grant you if they change in mid-stream, like the NFL would have to do with Kap, that is a bit more problematic.  That is why I think the NFL wants this to end (even if they have to cut Kap) and then impose the Anthem protest ban before the next protest begins.

Question for TAMU ...

Do you think it was a bit fascist that the NFL punished Ray Rice for the incident in the Elevator?  It was the OFF-SEASON!  What he does on his time, and even if that includes slapping around his wife, is his business.  We have law enforcement and courts to deal with this, as long as it does not affect his job, and being this was the OFF-SEASON it did not, his employer should not be involved.

Note, the NFL has the right to intrude into Ray Rice's relationship with his wife because his contract has a morals clause, that was approved by the NFLPA.

Bottom line, almost everyone has rules imposed upon them by an employer that a Government could never do.  They include, forced confinement in an office between 9 and 5.  Denial of freedom of expression by imposing a dress code.  Getting into one's bedroom be banning office romances.  Censorship on your employer supplied computer to various websites that your employer wants to block (everything from Facebook to porn sites) mandatory drug testing, regulating your speech when speaking to customers, even going as far as giving you an employer created script and force you to read them to customers and on and on.

I guess I don't see the protest ban, WHILE AT WORK AND USING EMPLOYER RESOURCES TO SUBJECT CUSTOMERS TO IT, as any different.

I don't think TAMU minds employers subjecting employees to arbitrary or even stupid rules unless they disagree with his politics. Then he has a problem.

[Benny B]

Two distinctly different things.

Granted, however, being an idiot and being a fascist aren't mutually exclusive.  For that matter, being an idiot isn't mutually exclusive with anything. 

Case in point: Stephen Hawking once thought that matter caught in a black hole was lost forever.  I mean, seriously... what kind of idiot doesn't realize that radiation can escape a black hole?  Every non-idiot out there knows about the event horizon.

[Lennys Tap]

Granted, however, being an idiot and being a fascist aren't mutually exclusive.  For that matter, being an idiot isn't mutually exclusive with anything. 

Exactly. Idiocy is a meritocracy that accepts people from every race, religion and political persuasion.