Football Ratings Are Down

[bma77]

You say it is meant to honor our country. Honoring our country is in and of itself a political statement. There is absolutely no way it could be construed as anything other than a political statement.

We could not disagree more.  Why is honoring your country a political statement?  In the Olympics when an individual wins, goes on that podium and their national anthem is played, is it a political statement?  You make an absolute statement that there is no way it can be construed any other way.  I can understand where the anthem can be a political statement, but disagree the assertion that it is the only thing it can be. 

Here's the thing...the National Anthem of the United States is racist. The third and fourth verses are pretty damn blatant. As they aren't traditionally included in what is played today, here they are:

And where is that band who so vauntingly swore
That the havoc of war and the battle's confusion
A home and a country should leave us no more?
Their blood has washed out their foul footsteps' pollution!
No refuge could save the hireling and slave
From the terror of flight or the gloom of the grave:
And the star-spangled banner in triumph doth wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

Oh, thus be it ever, when freemen shall stand
Between their loved home and the war's desolation!
Blest with victory and peace, may the heav'n-rescued land
Praise the Power that hath made and preserved us a nation!
Then conquer we must, when our cause it is just,
And this be our motto: "In God is our trust":
And the star-spangled banner in triumph shall wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave.

A few things here.  We don't sing those verses at games.  We also don't sing the complete Take Me Out to the Ballgame either.  America the Beautiful, or any number of other songs.  Even if we did, that doesn't make the song racist.

University of Michigan's Mark Clague (musicologist at the University of Michigan and the founding board chairman of the Star Spangled Music Foundation) says it is not, in his expert opinion. http://www.cnn.com/2016/08/31/opinions/star-spangled-banner-criticisms-opinion-clague/

Frederick Douglas cherished the song.  http://dailysignal.com/2016/08/29/unlike-the-nfls-colin-kaepernick-frederick-douglass-loved-the-star-spangled-banner/

Others may disagree.  In my view then, doesn't that make it an opinion, not an absolute?  Some experts say it is racist, other experts say it isn't?  Feels like an opinion.  Could not some people say the American flag is racist?  Should it be pulled down? Taken off fireman uniforms, police uniforms, boy scout uniforms?


Appreciate the discussion, we disagree on the intent here I guess.

[brewcity77]

Why is honoring your country a political statement?

I view that the same way as saying "why is honoring your god a religious statement?" Anything one pays homage to is a statement about that thing, whether it is the persons supporting it or opposing it.

If honoring the National Anthem isn't a political statement, then Kaepernick not honoring it also isn't a political statement. Just because something is commonplace doesn't mean it isn't still a political statement.

Others may disagree.  In my view then, doesn't that make it an opinion, not an absolute?  Some experts say it is racist, other experts say it isn't?  Feels like an opinion.  Could not some people say the American flag is racist?  Should it be pulled down? Taken off fireman uniforms, police uniforms, boy scout uniforms?

Appreciate the discussion, we disagree on the intent here I guess.

Isn't the intent of minority rights, however, to protect the opinions of those in dissent? As a country, work has been done to give the vote and citizenship to women and minorities while also working to give equal treatment to all citizens.

You can't have equality if everyone isn't treated equally, and if there's a portion of the populace viewing the Anthem that is supposed to unite us as divisive and racist, then I'd say that is pretty conclusively unequal treatment, whatever the intent of Key may have been.

Without actually talking to the writer, we can never fully know his intent. Was it racist? Was it not? Who knows. Does it matter? I don't think so. Safe to say that our forefathers, when the wrote "All men are created equal", meant all white, land-owning men. They didn't mean blacks, Native Americans, and certainly not women. However we use a modern lens to interpret the words they wrote. While the intent behind their words were not as broad as they are interpreted today, we have used that framework to provide equality for people that never would have been given that opportunity 200+ years ago.

When it comes to something like the Anthem, we should also look at it not through the intent of a man 150+ years ago, but through how it will be interpreted today. Doing any less does a disservice to the citizens of our country, and further reinforces the inequality that already exists.

And also appreciate the discussion

[Tugg Speedman]

The problem with the long term arguments about the ratings decline like cord-cutting and streaming is the NFL set a ratings record last year.  All those factors existed last year.

So, it is reasonable to look for something new to this year.  Yes the political debate hurt Monday night ratings last week (And will again do so this Sunday night) but even adjusting for that ratings are down, and down more than expected.

The something new to this year is Kaepernick.

NFL's 'Monday Night Football' Keeps Dropping In Ratings
Oct 4 2016

http://www.forbes.com/sites/brandonkatz/2016/10/04/nfls-monday-night-football-keeps-dropping-in-ratings/#238ccd67765b

There’s no denying that the numerous #BoycottNFL online campaigns and fan outrage aimed at the National Anthem protests in the NFL have taken a toll in terms of viewership. Additionally, cord-cutting continues to eat into traditional TV’s ratings at an alarming rate. But could there be something else at play?

We’re barely a year removed from the NFL setting all-time records in viewership, yet now the league is on pace for its lowest ratings in years. That’s a sharp and unexpectedly sudden turn.

Given the politicized controversies and the variety of streaming options this year, have we reached a cumulative point of football fatigue? The numbers suggest so.

Last night’s Monday Night Football matchup between the Minnesota Vikings and New York Giants drew a 9.1 overnight rating, an 8% drop from last year’s comparable Week 4 game between the Detroit Lions and Seattle Seahawks. The New England Patriots and Kansas City Chiefs game in 2014 earned a 9.6 rating.

[brewcity77]

Maybe people realized that watching an NFL game is 94% watching replays, commercials, coaches standing around, players standing around, and halftime shows. Pretty boring, a'ina?

[MerrittsMustache]

Maybe people realized that watching an NFL game is 94% watching replays, commercials, coaches standing around, players standing around, and halftime shows. Pretty boring, a'ina?

The best way to watch an NFL game is to DVR it and start it 2 hours late - fast-forward through all commercials, delays, etc. Wasn't there a study that showed that NFL games only have about 12 minutes of actual action?

[GGGG]

Maybe people realized that watching an NFL game is 94% watching replays, commercials, coaches standing around, players standing around, and halftime shows. Pretty boring, a'ina?

No.

[bma77]

I view that the same way as saying "why is honoring your god a religious statement?" Anything one pays homage to is a statement about that thing, whether it is the persons supporting it or opposing it.

If honoring the National Anthem isn't a political statement, then Kaepernick not honoring it also isn't a political statement. Just because something is commonplace doesn't mean it isn't still a political statement.

You are conflating here.  Kap is using this vehicle because he knows it will get noticed and piss people off.  That is the only reason.  He can make a political statement about something that isn't always political (the national anthem).  It is a symbol, like the flag.  That doesn't make it political.  It can be political, but you are trying to assert that it is always political by nature, and this is where we disagree.   It is a song, to honor this country, rally the troops. That is why it was played during a Cubs game last century in the 7th inning, to rally the team.  It is used at the Olympics to honor victories. 

Your God analogy makes no sense to me. 

Isn't the intent of minority rights, however, to protect the opinions of those in dissent? As a country, work has been done to give the vote and citizenship to women and minorities while also working to give equal treatment to all citizens.

You can't have equality if everyone isn't treated equally, and if there's a portion of the populace viewing the Anthem that is supposed to unite us as divisive and racist, then I'd say that is pretty conclusively unequal treatment, whatever the intent of Key may have been.

The intent is to protect the minority for the tyranny of the majority, but there are limits.  What you are describing in this above statement could be taken to a level of total anarchy if you wish.  Find any one person that disagrees with anything, and thus it is removed.  Society still has to function.

Without actually talking to the writer, we can never fully know his intent. Was it racist? Was it not? Who knows. Does it matter?

Yet yesterday you said it was racist.  Today, you say who knows?  That's quite a change in 24 hours.

I don't think so. Safe to say that our forefathers, when the wrote "All men are created equal", meant all white, land-owning men. They didn't mean blacks, Native Americans, and certainly not women. However we use a modern lens to interpret the words they wrote. While the intent behind their words were not as broad as they are interpreted today, we have used that framework to provide equality for people that never would have been given that opportunity 200+ years ago.

Didn't you just argue a minute ago that we don't know the intent of the song without talking to the writer?  But now you know the intent of "All men are created equal", yet you didn't talk to the writers?     They were very clear in other areas of founding documents to outline various specific rights for women, men, slaves, etc.  If what you say is true, why didn't they say all white men are created equal?  They specifically stated women can't vote, said slaves were only worth 3/5 a person, etc, etc.  They took great pains to detail those.  Why did they fall down on the job here, as you imply, and not be specific as you state that was their intent?  You seem to be arguing against yourself here.

When it comes to something like the Anthem, we should also look at it not through the intent of a man 150+ years ago, but through how it will be interpreted today. Doing any less does a disservice to the citizens of our country, and further reinforces the inequality that already exists.

And also appreciate the discussion

We agree, which is why this is a good discussion to have.  Institutions like the Supreme Court, Congress, state gov'ts allow us to change laws, policies if we think societally we need to do so.  Good discussion.

[Tugg Speedman]

I'm not saying some people won't boycott because of it. Hell, I stopped watching the NFL when they let Michael Vick back into the league.

It's truly amazing if people are stopping watching because of Kaepernick. They'll give a pass to butchers like Vick, murder accessories like Ray Lewis, rapists like Roethlisberger, all guys that are legitimate criminals, yet get bent out of shape because one guy exercises a constitutional right?

I'm sorry, but anyone boycotting the NFL because of Kaepernick is being ridiculous. Support the murderers, slander the protestors. What a total load of hypocritical crap. And I bet those same people go to church on Sunday and think they'll be saved 

Be amazed ...

Are Americans Tuning Out the NFL Over Protests?
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/social_issues/are_americans_tuning_out_the_nfl_over_protests

A sizable number of Americans say they may give the National Football League a pass this year, thanks to the player protests over racial issues.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that nearly one-third (32%) of American Adults say they are less likely to watch an NFL game because of the growing number of Black Lives Matter protests by players on the field. Only 13% say they are more likely to watch a game because of the protests. Just over half (52%) say the protests have no impact on their viewing decisions. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

----------

I think what most do not understand, because of the political ideologue, is Black Lives Matter is deeply unpopular. 

I await Sultan and Puskuni tortured rationalization.

[Pakuni]

Be amazed ...

Are Americans Tuning Out the NFL Over Protests?
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/social_issues/are_americans_tuning_out_the_nfl_over_protests

A sizable number of Americans say they may give the National Football League a pass this year, thanks to the player protests over racial issues.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that nearly one-third (32%) of American Adults say they are less likely to watch an NFL game because of the growing number of Black Lives Matter protests by players on the field. Only 13% say they are more likely to watch a game because of the protests. Just over half (52%) say the protests have no impact on their viewing decisions. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

----------

I await Sultan and Puskuni tortured rationalization.

Like your last survey, this one doesn't say what you claim says, nor does it contradict anything Sultan and I have written.

[Tugg Speedman]

Like your last survey, this one doesn't say what you claim says, nor does it contradict anything Sultan and I have written.

What part of this don't you understand?  Because to those that don't color everything with a political bias, it is pretty clear.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that nearly one-third (32%) of American Adults say they are less likely to watch an NFL game because of the growing number of Black Lives Matter protests by players on the field. Only 13% say they are more likely to watch a game because of the protests. Just over half (52%) say the protests have no impact on their viewing decisions. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

[Pakuni]

What part of this don't you understand? Because to those that don't color everything with a political bias, it is pretty clear.

How would you possibly know?
I suggest you re-read what Sultan and I have actually written rather than your straw man interpretations.

[brandx]

What part of this don't you understand?  Because to those that don't color everything with a political bias, it is pretty clear.

A new Rasmussen Reports national telephone and online survey finds that nearly one-third (32%) of American Adults say they are less likely to watch an NFL game because of the growing number of Black Lives Matter protests by players on the field. Only 13% say they are more likely to watch a game because of the protests. Just over half (52%) say the protests have no impact on their viewing decisions. (To see survey question wording, click here.)

That poll is surely as accurate as the polls that appear every time a major sport's players go on strike and a large percentage of "fans" say they will never attend a game again ..... ever.

These are simply frustration polls. Totally meaningless.

[Tugg Speedman]

That poll is surely as accurate as the polls that appear every time a major sport's players go on strike and a large percentage of "fans" say they will never attend a game again ..... ever.

These are simply frustration polls. Totally meaningless.

So the fact that NFL fans disprove of the protest, say they are less inclined to watch games, and ratings are surprising everyone by falling way more than expected is just a giant coincidence?

[MU82]

I am watching more football because of the protests.

[Pakuni]

NFL Ratings for Sunday afternoon games down only slightly.
It's just the prime time games that are seeing notable declines.
Are people boycotting the NFL because of Colin Kaepernick less outraged during daylight hours?
Or does this perhaps lend credence the idea that the primary driver behind the ratings decline isn't outrage over a protest but rather people finding something else to do or watch (such as cable news, which has seen large rating increases during this election season) during prime time hours?

(Is this the part where I claim my opinion is irrefutable fact and anyone who disagrees is a hyper-partisan in denial?)

NFL viewership trend through Week 4:

Regionalized Windows
CBS: -3%
FOX: -3%

National Windows
TNF: -15%
SNF: -13%
MNF: -19%

https://twitter.com/mulvihill79/status/783665297844760581

[forgetful]

I am watching more football because of the protests.

Just imagine how bad the ratings would be if people like you and me that are watching more football because of the protests turned off the games.

[brandx]

So the fact that NFL fans disprove of the protest, say they are less inclined to watch games, and ratings are surprising everyone by falling way more than expected is just a giant coincidence?

Yes.

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

The more I learn about CTE, the less interested I am in the sport.

[Tugg Speedman]

I am watching more football because of the protests.

Pakuni and Sultan insist political protest are not affecting ratings.  This does not help their rationalizations

[rocket surgeon]

So the fact that NFL fans disprove of the protest, say they are less inclined to watch games, and ratings are surprising everyone by falling way more than expected is just a giant coincidence?

Jesse, my man, you know how this works.  Kappernick "statements" are merely his 'merican right.  While he claims he means no disrespect, he's disrespecting many.  He could be wiping himself with the flag and claim, but I am only doing this because...and no disrespect to...and some in this country will still claim, "I don't agree with what he's doing, but i respect that he can do it horse hockey.  It would be interesting to note some people's reaction if player max von altenschmidten did a heil hitler salute during the anthem...tolerance, Eyn'a?  Any little blip in the ratings would be cause for seeing max on the waiver wire the next day, but the team will claim a missed tackle and stalled contract negotiations...

[Tugg Speedman]

Jesse, my man, you know how this works.  Kappernick "statements" are merely his 'merican right.  While he claims he means no disrespect, he's disrespecting many.  He could be wiping himself with the flag and claim, but I am only doing this because...and no disrespect to...and some in this country will still claim, "I don't agree with what he's doing, but i respect that he can do it horse hockey.  It would be interesting to note some people's reaction if player max von altenschmidten did a heil hitler salute during the anthem...tolerance, Eyn'a?  Any little blip in the ratings would be cause for seeing max on the waiver wire the next day, but the team will claim a missed tackle and stalled contract negotiations...

You mean like this actual story that all the defenders of protests have been strangely quite about.

Again, you have the right to protest or speak out ... so long as they agree with your political angle.  Clevenger was not politically correct so he lost his job.


Seattle Mariners catcher suspended for season for Charlotte protest tweets
http://www.wxyz.com/news/national/seattle-mariners-catcher-suspended-for-season-for-charlotte-protest-tweets

[naginiF]

You mean like this actual story that all the defenders of protests have been strangely quite about.

Again, you have the right to protest or speak out ... so long as they agree with your political angle.  Clevenger was not politically correct so he lost his job.


Seattle Mariners catcher suspended for season for Charlotte protest tweets
http://www.wxyz.com/news/national/seattle-mariners-catcher-suspended-for-season-for-charlotte-protest-tweets

Didn't read the article but y'all don't see the difference between peaceful/quiet objection focused on a systemic issue and hateful symbols and words focused on a specific group of people that are different (color, religion) than the person delivering the words?

If not........in before the lock.

[rocket surgeon]

You mean like this actual story that all the defenders of protests have been strangely quite about.

Again, you have the right to protest or speak out ... so long as they agree with your political angle.  Clevenger was not politically correct so he lost his job.


Seattle Mariners catcher suspended for season for Charlotte protest tweets
http://www.wxyz.com/news/national/seattle-mariners-catcher-suspended-for-season-for-charlotte-protest-tweets

BINGO!  Tolerance and understanding and freedom of speech....but not that kind of of freedom of speech Eyn'a?  ...more equal than others?? 

[rocket surgeon]

Didn't read the article but y'all don't see the difference between peaceful/quiet objection and hateful symbols and words?

If not........in before the lock.

Wearing socks depicting police as pigs on them is just good ole joshin around...what the hell, and clevenger calls some people pathetic and to lock 'me up like animals....que in the GASP sucking the air outa the room

[Pakuni]

Pakuni and Sultan insist political protest are not affecting ratings.  This does not help their rationalizations

That's false.