MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: MuggsyB on February 25, 2021, 07:57:12 PM
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I didn't realize he is the AC at Michigan. I would imagine he's had a significant impact on their success. Is he interested in becoming a HC again?
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Because he was so successful?
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Because he was so successful?
He had some rough years....but certainly has experience. I was just throwing it out there...he could have conceivably helped us.. But I guess he's no Spring chicken. In a perfect world who would you want MU to snag assuming we MOAB the current regime?
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Hard pass. While he had a few good years, he had sub – .500 records in eight of his 24 seasons. And his last three seasons (with 20+ years’ experience) were 11-20, 16-16 and 14-19.
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He had some rough years....but certainly has experience. I was just throwing it out there...he could have conceivably helped us.. But I guess he's no Spring chicken. In a perfect world who would you want MU to snag assuming we MOAB the current regime?
In a perfect world? I would take a guy like Mark Few, Tony Bennett or Nate Oats.
The problem in the real world is finding a guy better than Wojo who would come to MU. We learned seven years ago that you can’t just point your finger at the guy you want and get him to come to Milwaukee. Maybe Wardle, but I am not convinced he has better long-term prospects than Wojo.
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In a perfect world? I would take a guy like Mark Few, Tony Bennett or Nate Oats.
The problem in the real world is finding a guy better than Wojo who would come to MU. We learned seven years ago that you can’t just point your finger at the guy you want and get him to come to Milwaukee. Maybe Wardle, but I am not convinced he has better long-term prospects than Wojo.
MU is a high paying job with a significant amount of resources. It’s a good job don’t sell it short.
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In a perfect world? I would take a guy like Mark Few, Tony Bennett or Nate Oats.
The problem in the real world is finding a guy better than Wojo who would come to MU. We learned seven years ago that you can’t just point your finger at the guy you want and get him to come to Milwaukee. Maybe Wardle, but I am not convinced he has better long-term prospects than Wojo.
I'm not a Wardle fan. I'm also concerned Moser will go to BC and we have no chance of getting Beilein or Matta. There are still a number of good options. I was just thinking out loud with Martelli.
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MU is a high paying job with a significant amount of resources. It’s a good job don’t sell it short.
Couldn't agree more.
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MU is a high paying job with a significant amount of resources. It’s a good job don’t sell it short.
We pay in the lowest third of high major job. We do have a significant amount of resources. It's a good job, don't oversell it.
Honestly, I can only think of one good high major coach that we could conceivably poach, Steve Pikiell from Rutgers. He may be my top choice if/when Wojo leaves.
We may get lucky and land a top coach that's currently out of coaching like a Beilein or a Matta. But Beilein may come with baggage in the form of his kid wanting to be an AC and Matta may be waiting for the Butler job so he can coach at his kid's school. At the moment, those are the only two out there that I can think of.
If we need to hire a new coach, they will likely either be a mid-major head coach, high major assistant coach, or a recently fired high major coach. Which is fine. That's true for 95% of programs. It's also true that at least one of those guys will do a better job than what Wojo is currently doing. Trick is identifying the right one. The transition from being an AC to HC, or mid-major to high-major, or from being an unsuccessful high major coach to a successful one, is not easy.
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We pay in the lowest third of high major job. We do have a significant amount of resources. It's a good job, don't oversell it.
Honestly, I can only think of one good high major coach that we could conceivably poach, Steve Pikiell from Rutgers. He may be my top choice if/when Wojo leaves.
We may get lucky and land a top coach that's currently out of coaching like a Beilein or a Matta. But Beilein may come with baggage in the form of his kid wanting to be an AC and Matta may be waiting for the Butler job so he can coach at his kid's school. At the moment, those are the only two out there that I can think of.
If we need to hire a new coach, they will likely either be a mid-major head coach, high major assistant coach, or a recently fired high major coach. Which is fine. That's true for 95% of programs. It's also true that at least one of those guys will do a better job than what Wojo is currently doing. Trick is identifying the right one. The transition from being an AC to HC, or mid-major to high-major, or from being an unsuccessful high major coach to a successful one, is not easy.
I didn’t oversell it. Don’t put words in my mouth.
Only people totally out of touch with how the world of college sports works believe we would have a chance to lure away an Oats, Few etc.
There are 350 D1 basketball programs so the coach, either head from a MM or assistant, would be receiving a significant raise/promotion.
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What about these coaches in the MW conf?
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Why stop at Martelli?
Maybe Hubie Brown or Louie Carnesecca would be interested. They sure won a lot!
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Why stop at Martelli?
Maybe Hubie Brown or Louie Carnesecca would be interested. They sure won a lot!
Agreed. Don’t start a thread with a dumb premise. Muggs you are better than that. I think.
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We pay in the lowest third of high major job. We do have a significant amount of resources. It's a good job, don't oversell it.
Didn't MU pay Buzz more than they pay Wojo?
At any rate, few schools have a higher overall basketball budget and play in an NBA arena with basketball mad fans.
My point is that MU should be able to get whoever they want.
If we could get the next coach K for $5m or the next Ricky Byrdsong for $2m I trust the administration would dole out the $$$.
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MU is a high paying job with a significant amount of resources. It’s a good job don’t sell it short.
You are right. But it is being passed away with Wojo-Dukiet.
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MU is a high paying job with a significant amount of resources. It’s a good job don’t sell it short.
Marquette doesn't pay their coaches top 40 money. But I guess if you say it. It must be true.
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capel at Pittsburgh started out hot, now he's losing #2 & #3 scorers-40% of his offense
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Can this thread be merged with the long thread on this topic? Or are we going to have threads for each random name that someone thinks of?
For those of us that realize that Wojo is back next year, it will be annoying if each random name that pops into someone’s head ends up with a thread.
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Didn't MU pay Buzz more than they pay Wojo?
At any rate, few schools have a higher overall basketball budget and play in an NBA arena with basketball mad fans.
My point is that MU should be able to get whoever they want.
If we could get the next coach K for $5m or the next Ricky Byrdsong for $2m I trust the administration would dole out the $$$.
Buzz got paid after he won some games for us. His starting salary was lower than Wojo's. Wojo would get paid too if he won some games for us. The new coach will have to win some games to get to Buzz' salary.
The higher overall basketball budget is a misnomer. If you replace the costs associated with renting the Fiserv with the average costs that other schools pay for maintaining their own arenas, our budget drops into the lower half of high major. We do get to play in an NBA arena with basketball mad fans.
No we cannot get whoever we want. Shaka proved this. We can steal from the lowest high-majors, most mid-majors, and probably all low-majors. We can likely have any assistant we want. We cannot poach from most high majors, unless the coach is running from the job ala Cuonzo in 2014.
The university is not doling out $5 Million a year for a new coach. It's simply not happening. That's okay, very few program pay that much for basketball coaches, even ones that have been successful for years. It's also okay because there is a coach better than Wojo out there that can be had for $2.5 million or less.
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Buzz got paid after he won some games for us. His starting salary was lower than Wojo's. Wojo would get paid too if he won some games for us. The new coach will have to win some games to get to Buzz' salary.
The higher overall basketball budget is a misnomer. If you replace the costs associated with renting the Fiserv with the average costs that other schools pay for maintaining their own arenas, our budget drops into the lower half of high major. We do get to play in an NBA arena with basketball mad fans.
No we cannot get whoever we want. Shaka proved this. We can steal from the lowest high-majors, most mid-majors, and probably all low-majors. We can likely have any assistant we want. We cannot poach from most high majors, unless the coach is running from the job ala Cuonzo in 2014.
The university is not doling out $5 Million a year for a new coach. It's simply not happening. That's okay, very few program pay that much for basketball coaches, even ones that have been successful for years. It's also okay because there is a coach better than Wojo out there that can be had for $2.5 million or less.
Just out of curious it's if it was a sure thing like a Cal or Pitino where wed be rolling in success would they pull the trigger? Or would they try to negotiate some type of bonus program based on post season success?
Basically I'm curious if we simply don't have the money or if we want proof of concept before spending the money.
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Didn't MU pay Buzz more than they pay Wojo?
At any rate, few schools have a higher overall basketball budget and play in an NBA arena with basketball mad fans.
My point is that MU should be able to get whoever they want.
If we could get the next coach K for $5m or the next Ricky Byrdsong for $2m I trust the administration would dole out the $$$.
Based on what?
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Didn't MU pay Buzz more than they pay Wojo?
At any rate, few schools have a higher overall basketball budget and play in an NBA arena with basketball mad fans.
My point is that MU should be able to get whoever they want.
If we could get the next coach K for $5m or the next Ricky Byrdsong for $2m I trust the administration would dole out the $$$.
Ugh. For the millionth time, the budget is high because they pay rent to play in the FF.
The idea that Marquette can pay whatever it wants for a coach isn't accurate.
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Just out of curious it's if it was a sure thing like a Cal or Pitino where wed be rolling in success would they pull the trigger? Or would they try to negotiate some type of bonus program based on post season success?
Basically I'm curious if we simply don't have the money or if we want proof of concept before spending the money.
I think it's both but neither. They have the cash to pay a coach who has proof of concept but not enough to pay one who doesn't if that makes sense.
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We pay in the lowest third of high major job. We do have a significant amount of resources. It's a good job, don't oversell it.
Honestly, I can only think of one good high major coach that we could conceivably poach, Steve Pikiell from Rutgers. He may be my top choice if/when Wojo leaves.
We may get lucky and land a top coach that's currently out of coaching like a Beilein or a Matta. But Beilein may come with baggage in the form of his kid wanting to be an AC and Matta may be waiting for the Butler job so he can coach at his kid's school. At the moment, those are the only two out there that I can think of.
If we need to hire a new coach, they will likely either be a mid-major head coach, high major assistant coach, or a recently fired high major coach. Which is fine. That's true for 95% of programs. It's also true that at least one of those guys will do a better job than what Wojo is currently doing. Trick is identifying the right one. The transition from being an AC to HC, or mid-major to high-major, or from being an unsuccessful high major coach to a successful one, is not easy.
That would be a challenging sell with the do it sooner than five years crowd.
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I think it's both but neither. They have the cash to pay a coach who has proof of concept but not enough to pay one who doesn't if that makes sense.
I think that's a nonsensical way to make sense.
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You are right. But it is being passed away with Wojo-Dukiet.
If the previous coach has a big impact on how good the job is, it wasn't that good of a job to begin with.
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That would be a challenging sell with the do it sooner than five years crowd.
Agreed, but there are coaches in that population that could do it sooner than 5 years. Just gotta identify the right one.
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95% of programs in the country don't have the money to pay for a guy who's in the midst of success at a high major school.
Understanding that statement, MU has the resources to pay for a respected, successful HC at a lower level program who's looking to climb the ladder.
Crying poor because we can't get a premier guy away from school X is not being completely honest with the programs supposed ambitions.
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95% of programs in the country don't have the money to pay for a guy who's in the midst of success at a high major school.
Understanding that statement, MU has the resources to pay for a respected, successful HC at a lower level program who's looking to climb the ladder.
Crying poor because we can't get a premier guy away from school X is not being completely honest with the programs supposed ambitions.
Never said anything different. But as you can see in this thread, there are those who think we can drop 5 million a year and can have anyone we want. That's what my post is addressing
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Never said anything different. But as you can see in this thread, there are those who think we can drop 5 million a year and can have anyone we want. That's what my post is addressing
Fair enough. Those people don't understand Marquette's stature within the landscape of college basketball.
Having said that - This is a destination job. The Buzz hire was mainly for player continuity sake and it turned to golden, but the last two hires have been two of the top assistant coaches in the country at the time. The job pays well, resources to compete at a high level and basketball as a primary focus. We will attract the "sexy" mid major HC's and top level assistants when the position opens up.
Pining for Matta, Beilein, Oats etc. shows which people don't understand the full picture.
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Agreed, but there are coaches in that population that could do it sooner than 5 years. Just gotta identify the right one.
There are even a few people in these threads chirping about Buzz at TAMU even though it's only his 2nd season there.
What are these people going to do when it takes a few years to have some success and establish almost annual success?
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My point is that MU should be able to get whoever they want.
Silly. And wrong.
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Silly. And wrong.
If someone really thinks we can get whomever we want, wow. Hopefully that was a bit of sarcasm. If not, heck Doc and Wardle are my co-head coach choices. We can also keep Wojo on to recruit.
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Why stop at Martelli?
Maybe Hubie Brown or Louie Carnesecca would be interested. They sure won a lot!
Hologram Al or Zombie John Wooden might have more in the tank than Phil Martelli.
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There are even a few people in these threads chirping about Buzz at TAMU even though it's only his 2nd season there.
What are these people going to do when it takes a few years to have some success and establish almost annual success?
This could be referencing my post in the other thread that "Buzz might be available cheap soon."
Just to clarify, I'm not saying someone should be fired for a couple bad seasons in a rebuild.
Rather, that if you apply the criteria, many on these boards are applying to Wojo, Buzz should be out at TAMU. Also, if Buzz had stayed at MU one more season (which would have been as bad as Wojo's first year), they would have been calling for him to be fired (and actually for historical purposes, when we were team bubble watch for a few seasons, many on here were calling for Buzz to be fired, and that he couldn't make 2nd half adjustments).
We all want MU to be elite. I'm not sure Wojo is the person to get us there (nor was I sure on Buzz), but I think his inadequacies are being overplayed. I think the best thing for MU right now, would be to keep Wojo another year, and try to get a veteran coach on the bench with him, kind of like Wainwright was for Buzz.
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Fair enough. Those people don't understand Marquette's stature within the landscape of college basketball.
Having said that - This is a destination job. The Buzz hire was mainly for player continuity sake and it turned to golden, but the last two hires have been two of the top assistant coaches in the country at the time. The job pays well, resources to compete at a high level and basketball as a primary focus. We will attract the "sexy" mid major HC's and top level assistants when the position opens up.
Pining for Matta, Beilein, Oats etc. shows which people don't understand the full picture.
It isn't a destination job. The last two coaches have made it clear that it is a stepping stone. Wojo was a 'top assistant' coach for 15 years before getting his first major head coaching job. We rolled the dice, and I think we can see why it took him 15 years to leave Durham. We have exactly zero shot at Matta or Beilein. Oats was a possibility until Bama decided to pay him what he deserved.
We are what we are. A second tier BEAST team with excellent resources dedicated to basketball. Those dreaming of us returning to the days of Al need to wake up and realize the game has changed a lot in the last 45 years.
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This could be referencing my post in the other thread that "Buzz might be available cheap soon."
Just to clarify, I'm not saying someone should be fired for a couple bad seasons in a rebuild.
Rather, that if you apply the criteria, many on these boards are applying to Wojo, Buzz should be out at TAMU. Also, if Buzz had stayed at MU one more season (which would have been as bad as Wojo's first year), they would have been calling for him to be fired (and actually for historical purposes, when we were team bubble watch for a few seasons, many on here were calling for Buzz to be fired, and that he couldn't make 2nd half adjustments).
We all want MU to be elite. I'm not sure Wojo is the person to get us there (nor was I sure on Buzz), but I think his inadequacies are being overplayed. I think the best thing for MU right now, would be to keep Wojo another year, and try to get a veteran coach on the bench with him, kind of like Wainwright was for Buzz.
Buzz had some average seasons (in one of the best conferences ever), but made up for it by one, making the tournament and then two, winning games in the tournament. He also had very successful seasons overall. That earns you leeway with a fan base to have rebuilding seasons. Wojo has not come remotely close to earning that leeway. The only thing saving his job is COVID and the circumstances surrounding it.
As an aside, there will be fans at every program, at every point of the season and off-season who believe their coach isn't doing a good job. That shouldn't be used as a reason to keep a coach who has underachieved for the duration of his stay.
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Hologram Al or Zombie John Wooden might have more in the tank than Phil Martelli.
The best part of Hologram Al is you really only need him for the games. Hologram Hank can handle the practices.
Let’s just hope both are better than the Hologram Lombardi from the Super Bowl.
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Still need a hologram recruiter.
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It isn't a destination job. The last two coaches have made it clear that it is a stepping stone. Wojo was a 'top assistant' coach for 15 years before getting his first major head coaching job. We rolled the dice, and I think we can see why it took him 15 years to leave Durham. We have exactly zero shot at Matta or Beilein. Oats was a possibility until Bama decided to pay him what he deserved.
We are what we are. A second tier BEAST team with excellent resources dedicated to basketball. Those dreaming of us returning to the days of Al need to wake up and realize the game has changed a lot in the last 45 years.
I don’t think we should downgrade Wojo’s resume just because he hasn’t panned out. As far as assistants go, he was one of the bigger, well-known names. 15 years at a gold standard program and Team USA.
Now it’s looking like Duke has a bit of a Belichick coaching tree situation going on. Where the head coach might be so good, he’s covering up for weaknesses from assistants. Or the assistants are very capable handling their piece of the pie, but not sitting in the big seat.
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It isn't a destination job. The last two coaches have made it clear that it is a stepping stone. Wojo was a 'top assistant' coach for 15 years before getting his first major head coaching job. We rolled the dice, and I think we can see why it took him 15 years to leave Durham. We have exactly zero shot at Matta or Beilein. Oats was a possibility until Bama decided to pay him what he deserved.
We are what we are. A second tier BEAST team with excellent resources dedicated to basketball. Those dreaming of us returning to the days of Al need to wake up and realize the game has changed a lot in the last 45 years.
I used the wrong adjective. Which schools in NCAA basketball are widely accepted as destination jobs? Kentucky and Duke? Maybe a couple others.
What I meant is that this is a job that when it opens will have many highly qualified applicants looking to make a move up. Crean and Buzz are examples of two guys who have won here in modern times. The resources are available to make a quick bounce back to where the program was at with those two.
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This could be referencing my post in the other thread that "Buzz might be available cheap soon."
Just to clarify, I'm not saying someone should be fired for a couple bad seasons in a rebuild.
Rather, that if you apply the criteria, many on these boards are applying to Wojo, Buzz should be out at TAMU. Also, if Buzz had stayed at MU one more season (which would have been as bad as Wojo's first year), they would have been calling for him to be fired (and actually for historical purposes, when we were team bubble watch for a few seasons, many on here were calling for Buzz to be fired, and that he couldn't make 2nd half adjustments).
We all want MU to be elite. I'm not sure Wojo is the person to get us there (nor was I sure on Buzz), but I think his inadequacies are being overplayed. I think the best thing for MU right now, would be to keep Wojo another year, and try to get a veteran coach on the bench with him, kind of like Wainwright was for Buzz.
Huh?
This is Wojo's 7th season at Marquette. Buzz has had two seasons at TAMU. If Buzz' results at TAMU after the next five years, are similar to to Wojo's now, let's re-visit that.
Also, Buzz brought successful recruits to Virginia Tech, that he would have brought to Marquette.
As has been mentioned, the former version of the Big East when Buzz coached in it, was more challenging than the version since.
Your standards of success for Wojo and Buzz appear to be very different from each other.
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Ugh. For the millionth time, the budget is high because they pay rent to play in the FF.
The idea that Marquette can pay whatever it wants for a coach isn't accurate.
Exactly. People are delusional about MU state of affairs. In what world are we paying up for a coach when the University is in austerity mode, laying off employees etc. ? Unless he opts to go, MU is not unloading Wojo right now.
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I don’t think we should downgrade Wojo’s resume just because he hasn’t panned out. As far as assistants go, he was one of the bigger, well-known names. 15 years at a gold standard program and Team USA.
Now it’s looking like Duke has a bit of a Belichick coaching tree situation going on. Where the head coach might be so good, he’s covering up for weaknesses from assistants. Or the assistants are very capable handling their piece of the pie, but not sitting in the big seat.
Now?? That's been pretty obvious for years. The only K assistant who has seen sustained success is Bray...the only one who didn't play for Duke.
But, like NFL teams do with Patriots assistants, college AD's remain enamored with Duke and think "this guy will be different and replicate Duke's success."
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He had some rough years....but certainly has experience. I was just throwing it out there...he could have conceivably helped us.. But I guess he's no Spring chicken. In a perfect world who would you want MU to snag assuming we MOAB the current regime?
a better option right now would be hiring a guy like Martelli as an assistant as Howard did at UM.
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Hologram Al or Zombie John Wooden might have more in the tank than Phil Martelli.
I suppose I was not thinking clearly about Martelli. I was surprised to see him on the Mich bench. Anyway we need to find the right fit at MU and turn things around.
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Now?? That's been pretty obvious for years. The only K assistant who has seen sustained success is Bray...the only one who didn't play for Duke.
But, like NFL teams do with Patriots assistants, college AD's remain enamored with Duke and think "this guy will be different and replicate Duke's success."
That’s fair. Don’t get me wrong, when Wojo’s name popped up, I wasn’t exactly jumping for joy.
Amaker had been having some success at Harvard. Collins was ok at Northwestern. Capel had some success at Oklahoma before NCAA issues.
You are right though, the Duke assistant reputation was already out there at that point. I think there was some hope that Wojo was K’s favorite, so he might me different.
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Huh?
This is Wojo's 7th season at Marquette. Buzz has had two seasons at TAMU. If Buzz' results at TAMU after the next five years, are similar to to Wojo's now, let's re-visit that.
Also, Buzz brought successful recruits to Virginia Tech, that he would have brought to Marquette.
As has been mentioned, the former version of the Big East when Buzz coached in it, was more challenging than the version since.
Your standards of success for Wojo and Buzz appear to be very different from each other.
I'm not posting on my standards for either.
I'm posting based on the standards people on this board are applying. You may not remember it, but Buzz was often berated on here for not being able to make adjustments in the 2nd half, and others calling for him to be removed when we were in constant bubble talk, then the same people claiming he was the next Al when he wins a big game. Wojo's first 2 years here were better than Buzz's first 2-years at TAMU, and people were already calling him a mistake and that he should be removed.
I'm not going to relitigate the cupboard Buzz left or would have had going into Wojo's first year. It is futile.
Now, if you want my personal opinions.
Overall, Buzz was an above average coach. He benefited by finding some amazing under the radar talent, that turned into all big-east and NBA levels, at the JC level, but really struggled finding and developing 4-year talent. When he was at MU, especially in the beginning, he excelled at game planning/prep before the game/season, but still was learning and needed to learn in game adjustments. If he had stayed, and couldn't access the JC-level like he likes, he would have likely had MU at constant mediocrity, possibly underperforming what Wojo did, depending on how he adapted to not accessing JC players.
Now, Wojo. He's still learning how to run a program long-term. I think he gets a bit of a bad rap on here. People focus on the end of season collapses, and neglect the fact that prior to them, he had the teams performing above their talent level. He struggles with in season adjustments, and adapting the program plan to the teams strengths. I'm not certain he is the best option long term, but think it would be a mistake to move on now.
If Carton, Lewis, and Garcia all return, we might have a really strong team next here. Especially if we can pick up a impact transfer. Give him 1 more year, in my opinion, and then re-evaluate.
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I'm not posting on my standards for either.
I'm posting based on the standards people on this board are applying. You may not remember it, but Buzz was often berated on here for not being able to make adjustments in the 2nd half, and others calling for him to be removed when we were in constant bubble talk, then the same people claiming he was the next Al when he wins a big game. Wojo's first 2 years here were better than Buzz's first 2-years at TAMU, and people were already calling him a mistake and that he should be removed.
I'm not going to relitigate the cupboard Buzz left or would have had going into Wojo's first year. It is futile.
Now, if you want my personal opinions.
Overall, Buzz was an above average coach. He benefited by finding some amazing under the radar talent, that turned into all big-east and NBA levels, at the JC level, but really struggled finding and developing 4-year talent. When he was at MU, especially in the beginning, he excelled at game planning/prep before the game/season, but still was learning and needed to learn in game adjustments. If he had stayed, and couldn't access the JC-level like he likes, he would have likely had MU at constant mediocrity, possibly underperforming what Wojo did, depending on how he adapted to not accessing JC players.
Now, Wojo. He's still learning how to run a program long-term. I think he gets a bit of a bad rap on here. People focus on the end of season collapses, and neglect the fact that prior to them, he had the teams performing above their talent level. He struggles with in season adjustments, and adapting the program plan to the teams strengths. I'm not certain he is the best option long term, but think it would be a mistake to move on now.
If Carton, Lewis, and Garcia all return, we might have a really strong team next here. Especially if we can pick up a impact transfer. Give him 1 more year, in my opinion, and then re-evaluate.
I wasn't on this board at that time, but comparing Buzz success at MUBB vs Wojo success at MUBB is apples to oranges because one was/has been signficantly more successful than the other.
You slide in some interesting little comments here and there that are of interest to me.
I don't think many people here would agree that Wojo gets his players/team performing above their talent level. If anything I daily read the opposite here. But, I will play along a second, ...and say I don't believe MUBB talent level recruiting has been as good as some think it has been under Wojo. But, who's job is it to recruit? Wojo. Part of coaching, part of running a program is recruiting. So, it counts against Wojo either way.
You have mentioned Buzz and the bubble multiple times. Buzz was at MUBB six seasons. His teams made the NCAA's 5 of 6 seasons. And his teams finished top 5 or better in a tougher league, four of those six seasons. He won the Regular Season Big East Title in his 2nd last season at MUBB. (Wojo has finished top 5 in the current league version twice in 7 seasons)
1st season NCAA 6 seed.
2nd season NCAA 6 seed.
3rd season NCAA 11 seed.
4th season NCAA 3 seed.
5th season NCAA 3 seed.
I don't see a lot of bubble teams here.I find it difficult to believe that many level headed people here didn't find these results acceptable, or good.
All of this and we haven't even discussed post season results comparison yet.
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I'm not posting on my standards for either.
I'm posting based on the standards people on this board are applying. You may not remember it, but Buzz was often berated on here for not being able to make adjustments in the 2nd half, and others calling for him to be removed when we were in constant bubble talk, then the same people claiming he was the next Al when he wins a big game. Wojo's first 2 years here were better than Buzz's first 2-years at TAMU, and people were already calling him a mistake and that he should be removed.
I'm not going to relitigate the cupboard Buzz left or would have had going into Wojo's first year. It is futile.
Now, if you want my personal opinions.
Overall, Buzz was an above average coach. He benefited by finding some amazing under the radar talent, that turned into all big-east and NBA levels, at the JC level, but really struggled finding and developing 4-year talent. When he was at MU, especially in the beginning, he excelled at game planning/prep before the game/season, but still was learning and needed to learn in game adjustments. If he had stayed, and couldn't access the JC-level like he likes, he would have likely had MU at constant mediocrity, possibly underperforming what Wojo did, depending on how he adapted to not accessing JC players.
Now, Wojo. He's still learning how to run a program long-term. I think he gets a bit of a bad rap on here. People focus on the end of season collapses, and neglect the fact that prior to them, he had the teams performing above their talent level. He struggles with in season adjustments, and adapting the program plan to the teams strengths. I'm not certain he is the best option long term, but think it would be a mistake to move on now.
If Carton, Lewis, and Garcia all return, we might have a really strong team next here. Especially if we can pick up a impact transfer. Give him 1 more year, in my opinion, and then re-evaluate.
1) Buzz and mediocrity- Then please explain his success at VT.
2) "Still learning...." So 8 years to judge?
3) "Bad rap". The three 1-6 collapses (he scratched this year's 1-6 collapse off his to-do list early) are legitimate reasons to criticize him.
4) I agree that with "struggles". That's a very good way to sum it up.
No disrespect intended- I get that you are presenting another side of Buzz and Wojo and you did clearly state these were your "personal opinions" but mine are very different.
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I'm not posting on my standards for either.
I'm posting based on the standards people on this board are applying. You may not remember it, but Buzz was often berated on here for not being able to make adjustments in the 2nd half, and others calling for him to be removed when we were in constant bubble talk, then the same people claiming he was the next Al when he wins a big game. Wojo's first 2 years here were better than Buzz's first 2-years at TAMU, and people were already calling him a mistake and that he should be removed.
I'm not going to relitigate the cupboard Buzz left or would have had going into Wojo's first year. It is futile.
Now, if you want my personal opinions.
Overall, Buzz was an above average coach. He benefited by finding some amazing under the radar talent, that turned into all big-east and NBA levels, at the JC level, but really struggled finding and developing 4-year talent. When he was at MU, especially in the beginning, he excelled at game planning/prep before the game/season, but still was learning and needed to learn in game adjustments. If he had stayed, and couldn't access the JC-level like he likes, he would have likely had MU at constant mediocrity, possibly underperforming what Wojo did, depending on how he adapted to not accessing JC players.
Now, Wojo. He's still learning how to run a program long-term. I think he gets a bit of a bad rap on here. People focus on the end of season collapses, and neglect the fact that prior to them, he had the teams performing above their talent level. He struggles with in season adjustments, and adapting the program plan to the teams strengths. I'm not certain he is the best option long term, but think it would be a mistake to move on now.
If Carton, Lewis, and Garcia all return, we might have a really strong team next here. Especially if we can pick up a impact transfer. Give him 1 more year, in my opinion, and then re-evaluate.
I believe you are under-rating Buzz's potential at keeping Marquette relevant had he stayed, even in a non-juco world (and lots of Scoopers say he still would have been able to recruit most jucos).
Otherwise, you make some good points IMHO and I respect your opinion on Wojo. I would have fired him after the DePaul loss, but if he returns (as he figures to), I will support him and the program, and obviously the players. I like to think he will be on a pretty short leash in 2021-22, so we'll see how the re-evaluation goes from those whose opinions actually matter.
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1st season NCAA 6 seed.
2nd season NCAA 6 seed.
3rd season NCAA 11 seed.
4th season NCAA 3 seed.
5th season NCAA 3 seed.
I don't see a lot of bubble teams here.
So what...the guy that wrote Bubble Watch for Sports Illustrated gave us that moniker just for fun? We were on the bubble all of Buzz's second season. Remember we were 11-8 (2-5) to start the season before we rattled off 9 of 10 to lock us into the field. That was an incredibly bubbly year, and the 6-seed was a bit of a surprise (we looked more like an 8/9 than a 6).
The next year, we were clearly on the bubble and I think that's when Glockner started calling us Team Bubble Watch. There was speculation that the WVU win in the BET was the only reason we got in.
The next two years weren't as bubbly, but there were plenty of Marquette fans on this site that were convinced we wouldn't be in the 2013 Tournament after falling to 7-3 with a loss to Green Bay.
And obviously, Buzz's last season was a year on the bubble. If we don't lose his last two regular season games, both in double-overtime, we would've been the 3-seed in the Big East Tournament and probably needed just one win to get in. Instead, we took the losses and fell not only off the bubble but out of the NIT as well.
3 of his 6 years we lived on the bubble. You can call it a lot, a little, or average, but it's absolutely the fact of the matter.
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So what...the guy that wrote Bubble Watch for Sports Illustrated gave us that moniker just for fun? We were on the bubble all of Buzz's second season. Remember we were 11-8 (2-5) to start the season before we rattled off 9 of 10 to lock us into the field. That was an incredibly bubbly year, and the 6-seed was a bit of a surprise (we looked more like an 8/9 than a 6).
The next year, we were clearly on the bubble and I think that's when Glockner started calling us Team Bubble Watch. There was speculation that the WVU win in the BET was the only reason we got in.
The next two years weren't as bubbly, but there were plenty of Marquette fans on this site that were convinced we wouldn't be in the 2013 Tournament after falling to 7-3 with a loss to Green Bay.
And obviously, Buzz's last season was a year on the bubble. If we don't lose his last two regular season games, both in double-overtime, we would've been the 3-seed in the Big East Tournament and probably needed just one win to get in. Instead, we took the losses and fell not only off the bubble but out of the NIT as well.
3 of his 6 years we lived on the bubble. You can call it a lot, a little, or average, but it's absolutely the fact of the matter.
We were a 3 seed for two seasons, a top 6 seed for 4 seasons, and when we were a bubble 11 seed we made the S16. Our record during the course of those seasons is irrelevant. You don't "live on the bubble" as a 6 seed.
There is honestly no comparison between the Buzz and Wojo teams as far as on court success. And for a myriad reasons, not just the obvious facts. If you want to discuss other aspects of the issues we had while Buzz was in charge that's fair. But on the floor his coaching and the level of play was vastly superior than anything we have seen in 7 yrs with Wojo.
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We pay in the lowest third of high major job. We do have a significant amount of resources. It's a good job, don't oversell it.
Honestly, I can only think of one good high major coach that we could conceivably poach, Steve Pikiell from Rutgers. He may be my top choice if/when Wojo leaves.
We may get lucky and land a top coach that's currently out of coaching like a Beilein or a Matta. But Beilein may come with baggage in the form of his kid wanting to be an AC and Matta may be waiting for the Butler job so he can coach at his kid's school. At the moment, those are the only two out there that I can think of.
If we need to hire a new coach, they will likely either be a mid-major head coach, high major assistant coach, or a recently fired high major coach. Which is fine. That's true for 95% of programs. It's also true that at least one of those guys will do a better job than what Wojo is currently doing. Trick is identifying the right one. The transition from being an AC to HC, or mid-major to high-major, or from being an unsuccessful high major coach to a successful one, is not easy.
who/what are your sources re: what MU pays?
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We pay in the lowest third of high major job. We do have a significant amount of resources. It's a good job, don't oversell it.
Ehhhhh I don't know about that.
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It isn't a destination job. The last two coaches have made it clear that it is a stepping stone. Wojo was a 'top assistant' coach for 15 years before getting his first major head coaching job. We rolled the dice, and I think we can see why it took him 15 years to leave Durham. We have exactly zero shot at Matta or Beilein. Oats was a possibility until Bama decided to pay him what he deserved.
We are what we are. A second tier BEAST team with excellent resources dedicated to basketball. Those dreaming of us returning to the days of Al need to wake up and realize the game has changed a lot in the last 45 years.
to some coaches, MU is a destination job. To other coaches, it’s not. What is a piece of art worth? What someone will pay for it, or not pay for it. Is Gonzaga a destination job? WCC. Spokane. To Mark Few it apparently is basketball paradise. To others, nope. Wojo might have zero plans on ever leaving MU. If so, to Wojo MU is a destination job. MU can pay and does have resources. It should take a backseat to only a few programs, and not take a backseat to any program in the BE.
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In FY 2019, Wojo made $2.02 million. Here's what USA Today had last year. Without 5 P6 coaches salaries listed in addition to Wojo.
https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/
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In FY 2019, Wojo made $2.02 million. Here's what USA Today had last year. Without 5 P6 coaches salaries listed in addition to Wojo.
https://sports.usatoday.com/ncaa/salaries/mens-basketball/coach/
damn, Collins and Hopkins have incredible agents!
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I believe you are under-rating Buzz's potential at keeping Marquette relevant had he stayed, even in a non-juco world (and lots of Scoopers say he still would have been able to recruit most jucos).
To clarify, I really wasn't saying Marquette wouldn't have been relevant. When I said mediocrity, I'm using "Scoop" definitions, where apparently unless you are top 25 every year, and winning NCAA tournament games, you are just mediocre. I'm pretty sure we are close on our thoughts on how Buzz would have faired and on Wojo, my language and penchant for mimicking/mocking "Scoop" hysteria belie my actual point.
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So what...the guy that wrote Bubble Watch for Sports Illustrated gave us that moniker just for fun? We were on the bubble all of Buzz's second season. Remember we were 11-8 (2-5) to start the season before we rattled off 9 of 10 to lock us into the field. That was an incredibly bubbly year, and the 6-seed was a bit of a surprise (we looked more like an 8/9 than a 6).
The next year, we were clearly on the bubble and I think that's when Glockner started calling us Team Bubble Watch. There was speculation that the WVU win in the BET was the only reason we got in.
The next two years weren't as bubbly, but there were plenty of Marquette fans on this site that were convinced we wouldn't be in the 2013 Tournament after falling to 7-3 with a loss to Green Bay.
And obviously, Buzz's last season was a year on the bubble. If we don't lose his last two regular season games, both in double-overtime, we would've been the 3-seed in the Big East Tournament and probably needed just one win to get in. Instead, we took the losses and fell not only off the bubble but out of the NIT as well.
3 of his 6 years we lived on the bubble. You can call it a lot, a little, or average, but it's absolutely the fact of the matter.
I’d say two of six not that it matters.
What matters are results. You are what your record says you are, regular season, post season, etc...
Buzz, two Sweet 16’s, an Elite 8, a Regular Season Big East Title, four top 5 league finishes, etc...those things matter.
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who/what are your sources re: what MU pays?
Ehhhhh I don't know about that.
https://watchstadium.com/college-basketball-coaching-salary-and-buyout-database-for-2019-20-season-10-24-2019/
I was going by this list. I originally thought it had info for all public universities but I guess public record laws vary from state to state.
On this list, Wojo comes in 40th. In actuality, he's much lower because the following P6 schools are missing:
Clemson
Syracuse
Notre Dame
Pittsburgh
Wake Forest
Miami (FL)
Boston College
Baylor
Oklahoma State
TCU
Iowa
Purdue
Penn State
Northwestern
Villanova
Creighton
Seton Hall
Xavier
St. John's
Providence
Georgetown
Butler
DePaul
USC
Stanford
Florida
Mississippi State
Texas A&M
Vanderbilt
You also have to factor in that 2 non-P6 coaches are ranked above Wojo (Gregg Marshall and Kelvin Sampson), so on this list Wojo is 38th for P6 coaches.
There are 29 P6 schools missing from this list. There are 76 P6 schools total. To be in the bottom third of P6 coaching salaries, you have to be ranked 51st or lower.
So if Wojo is at 38 and there are 29 schools missing, only 13/29 of the missing schools need to have higher salaries than Wojo. I feel very comfortable guessing that at least 13 of:
Brad Brownell
Jim Boeheim
Mike Brey
Jeff Capel
Jim Larranaga
Scott Drew
Jamie Dixon
Fran McCaffery
Matt Painter
Jay Wright
Kevin Willard
Ed Cooley
Patrick Ewing
Andy Enfield
Mike White
Ben Howland
Buzz Williams
make more than Wojo does.
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damn, Collins and Hopkins have incredible agents!
Ha! Was thinking the exact same thing.
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to some coaches, MU is a destination job. To other coaches, it’s not. What is a piece of art worth? What someone will pay for it, or not pay for it. Is Gonzaga a destination job? WCC. Spokane. To Mark Few it apparently is basketball paradise. To others, nope. Wojo might have zero plans on ever leaving MU. If so, to Wojo MU is a destination job. MU can pay and does have resources. It should take a backseat to only a few programs, and not take a backseat to any program in the BE.
I guess 4:20 came 21 minutes early for you. Which coach of the last five thought that Marquette was a place they wanted to be forever? Go on, I'll wait.
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https://watchstadium.com/college-basketball-coaching-salary-and-buyout-database-for-2019-20-season-10-24-2019/
I was going by this list. I originally thought it had info for all public universities but I guess public record laws vary from state to state.
On this list, Wojo comes in 40th. In actuality, he's much lower because the following P6 schools are missing:
Clemson
Syracuse
Notre Dame
Pittsburgh
Wake Forest
Miami (FL)
Boston College
Baylor
Oklahoma State
TCU
Iowa
Purdue
Penn State
Northwestern
Villanova
Creighton
Seton Hall
Xavier
St. John's
Providence
Georgetown
Butler
DePaul
USC
Stanford
Florida
Mississippi State
Texas A&M
Vanderbilt
You also have to factor in that 2 non-P6 coaches are ranked above Wojo (Gregg Marshall and Kelvin Sampson), so on this list Wojo is 38th for P6 coaches.
There are 29 P6 schools missing from this list. There are 76 P6 schools total. To be in the bottom third of P6 coaching salaries, you have to be ranked 51st or lower.
So if Wojo is at 38 and there are 29 schools missing, only 13/29 of the missing schools need to have higher salaries than Wojo. I feel very comfortable guessing that at least 13 of:
Brad Brownell
Jim Boeheim
Mike Brey
Jeff Capel
Jim Larranaga
Scott Drew
Jamie Dixon
Fran McCaffery
Matt Painter
Jay Wright
Kevin Willard
Ed Cooley
Patrick Ewing
Andy Enfield
Mike White
Ben Howland
Buzz Williams
make more than Wojo does.
Some of that’s Wojo’s performance though. He hasn’t really warranted to be paid higher than that. Wasn’t Buzz at $2.7M or close to 3M? I know his was structured pretty uniquely.
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I guess 4:20 came 21 minutes early for you. Which coach of the last five thought that Marquette was a place they wanted to be forever? Go on, I'll wait.
save the sarcasm. Re-read what I posted. To some, MU is not a destination job. To others, however...maybe even Wojo, it is.
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We were a 3 seed for two seasons, a top 6 seed for 4 seasons, and when we were a bubble 11 seed we made the S16. Our record during the course of those seasons is irrelevant. You don't "live on the bubble" as a 6 seed.
Did you regularly read Bubble Watch during the Buzz era?
I’d say two of six not that it matters.
Same question.
Guys, I didn't come up with the moniker, but it was a real thing that lasted for years because we were always on the bubble. Bubble Watch usually starts after Christmas, when most bracketologists start their brackets. Look at 2010. We were squarely on the bubble until well into February.
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Did you regularly read Bubble Watch during the Buzz era?
Same question.
Guys, I didn't come up with the moniker, but it was a real thing that lasted for years because we were always on the bubble. Bubble Watch usually starts after Christmas, when most bracketologists start their brackets. Look at 2010. We were squarely on the bubble until well into February.
No, I did not read "Bubble Watch". Did it occur to you that the BEast conf the year we were an 11 seed may have been the best conf in the history of college basketball? Also, year 1 of the Buzz era could have easily been a F4 team if Dominic did not get injured vs UCONN. I respect your opinions but vehemently disagree with the Buzz/Wojo comparison. We have an incalculable amount of work to do. Take care B-City.
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save the sarcasm. Re-read what I posted. To some, MU is not a destination job. To others, however...maybe even Wojo, it is.
Do you think if Duke opened up and they called, Wojo would say no? There's your answer.
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Did you regularly read Bubble Watch during the Buzz era?
Same question.
Guys, I didn't come up with the moniker, but it was a real thing that lasted for years because we were always on the bubble. Bubble Watch usually starts after Christmas, when most bracketologists start their brackets. Look at 2010. We were squarely on the bubble until well into February.
Like I said, two of six seasons vs six of seven seasons, isn't the same.
And, again, you are what your record says you are. The records are pretty clear here, and very different.
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Some of that’s Wojo’s performance though. He hasn’t really warranted to be paid higher than that.
Yes of course. But the start of this conversation was the idea that we had enough money to lure any coach we want. We might pay a new coach a little more than Wojo makes now, but I doubt it. The reality is, most high major coaches already make more than we would offer. If we hire someone, it will likely be a mid-major head coach, high-major assistant, or recently fired high-major head coach. Which again is fine. There are solid candidates who could likely do a better job than what we're currently getting.
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I believe you are under-rating Buzz's potential at keeping Marquette relevant had he stayed, even in a non-juco world (and lots of Scoopers say he still would have been able to recruit most jucos).
This. In Buzz’s 5th season at Marquette, he won the Big East regular season title, got a 3 seed and advanced to the Elite 8 - with zero JUCOS on the roster.
A lot of disinformation in this thread. Very few Scoopers took issue with his coaching ability - can’t think of any other than Willie. Chico hated him because he eclipsed TC’s accomplishments -but even he acknowledged that Buzz was an outstanding coach.
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No, I did not read "Bubble Watch". Did it occur to you that the BEast conf the year we were an 11 seed may have been the best conf in the history of college basketball? Also, year 1 of the Buzz era could have easily been a F4 team if Dominic did not get injured vs UCONN. I respect your opinions but vehemently disagree with the Buzz/Wojo comparison. We have an incalculable amount of work to do. Take care B-City.
I'm not comparing them. I'm saying we were on the bubble for about half of Buzz's tenure. I'm not defending Wojo either, so I'm not sure what the relevance of the rest of your post is.
Like I said, two of six seasons vs six of seven seasons, isn't the same.
And, again, you are what your record says you are. The records are pretty clear here, and very different.
I'm not comparing them. We were on the bubble in 2010, 2011, and 2014. That's just a fact.
Team Bubble Watch was a thing under Buzz. And Wojo hasn't been on the bubble 6/7 seasons. We weren't good enough to be there in 2015 or 2016. We are trying to get on the bubble this year but aren't there yet. He's at 3/7 seasons. He wishes he'd been on the bubble 6/7.
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A lot of disinformation in this thread. Very few Scoopers took issue with his coaching ability - can’t think of any other than Willie. Chico hated him because he eclipsed TC’s accomplishments -but even he acknowledged that Buzz was an outstanding coach.
Do you remember this board after we blew a 15-point lead in the NCAA tournament against Washington, or the 18-point lead against Louisville, or a bunch of the other huge blown leads.
There was definitely sentiment regarding not adjusting, not calling Time-outs, and him just not being a good enough game coach. I didn't agree with them then, and still don't, but it was a thing.
That's what Scoop does, decides in October that this is the best team we are putting on the floor since 1977. Deciding midseason that we need to fire the coach, and burn the whole thing to the ground, then half the time worrying that our coach will leave and we will be dropped to D2, because we suck so much. That is Scoop being Scoop...its what this board does.
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Hell, after that Green Bay loss, we were the most overrated team in the country and Buzz couldn't coach.
This is Scoop!
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Hell, after that Green Bay loss, we were the most overrated team in the country and Buzz couldn't coach.
This is Scoop!
Do you think we will win tomorrow,? Revenge performance?
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Do you think we will win tomorrow,? Revenge performance?
Crazily, I don't feel as good about this one as I did about UNC. Just had a feeling there.
I think we start slower but hang around and then play a good second half. MU by 6.
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It's a vitally important game for UCONN. No prediction from me but if we somehow get the W, I do think it's likely we win out before the BET. I'm not impressed with X and I don't expect to be Kunkeled.
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Still need a hologram recruiter.
Hologram Rick.
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I'm not comparing them. I'm saying we were on the bubble for about half of Buzz's tenure. I'm not defending Wojo either, so I'm not sure what the relevance of the rest of your post is.
I'm not comparing them. We were on the bubble in 2010, 2011, and 2014. That's just a fact.
Team Bubble Watch was a thing under Buzz. And Wojo hasn't been on the bubble 6/7 seasons. We weren't good enough to be there in 2015 or 2016. We are trying to get on the bubble this year but aren't there yet. He's at 3/7 seasons. He wishes he'd been on the bubble 6/7.
I was being generous with Wojo.
I don't consider December "Bubble Watch" and you do, as you said in your post. It's okay to disagree about some things. Being on the bubble is barely making in the NCAA's or barely missing the NCAA's. I including all of Wojo's misses even though he wasn't close to the bubble with some of them.
The discussion is that a poster finds Buzz and Wojo results roughly comparable. Any objective person here would say their results were very different from each other.
I don't have anything against Wojo or tor Buzz. Those are the facts/results. It is what it is.
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Do you remember this board after we blew a 15-point lead in the NCAA tournament against Washington, or the 18-point lead against Louisville, or a bunch of the other huge blown leads.
There was definitely sentiment regarding not adjusting, not calling Time-outs, and him just not being a good enough game coach. I didn't agree with them then, and still don't, but it was a thing.
That's what Scoop does, decides in October that this is the best team we are putting on the floor since 1977. Deciding midseason that we need to fire the coach, and burn the whole thing to the ground, then half the time worrying that our coach will leave and we will be dropped to D2, because we suck so much. That is Scoop being Scoop...its what this board does.
Did people bitch after this game or that game? Sure, it’s what fans do. But the great majority of Scoopers accepted the overwhelming evidence that said Buzz Williams was very good at coaching basketball.
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I was being generous with Wojo.
I don't consider December "Bubble Watch" and you do, as you said in your post. It's okay to disagree about some things. Being on the bubble is barely making in the NCAA's or barely missing the NCAA's. I including all of Wojo's misses even though he wasn't close to the bubble with some of them.
The discussion is that a poster finds Buzz and Wojo results roughly comparable. Any objective person here would say their results were very different from each other.
I don't have anything against Wojo or tor Buzz. Those are the facts/results. It is what it is.
Look at the schedule. It wasn't just December. We were 11-8 (2-5) on January 23 and clearly out of the field. A 5-game winning streak got us back in the mix, but losing to Pitt and facing a 3-game road swing, there was a lot of thought we wouldn't get in. That was February 18. We won 3 straight on the road in overtime and probably punched our ticket on March 2 when we beat Louisville at home (the Buzz "walk it out" game). We were on the bubble that entire year and the 6-seed was a surprise as most people thought we were in, but just on the safe side.
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Marquette "In the Mix" on Feb 8, 2010: https://www.si.com/more-sports/2010/02/08/bubble-watch
Still "In the Mix" on Feb 15, 2010: https://www.si.com/more-sports/2010/02/15/bubble-watch
We weren't a certain NCAA team until late in the year.
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Look at the schedule. It wasn't just December. We were 11-8 (2-5) on January 23 and clearly out of the field. A 5-game winning streak got us back in the mix, but losing to Pitt and facing a 3-game road swing, there was a lot of thought we wouldn't get in. That was February 18. We won 3 straight on the road in overtime and probably punched our ticket on March 2 when we beat Louisville at home (the Buzz "walk it out" game). We were on the bubble that entire year and the 6-seed was a surprise as most people thought we were in, but just on the safe side.
Try to see the forest.
I don't agree about one of the seasons regarding the bubble. I don't believe the bubble begins in December. Whether it is 2 of 6 which is what I believe, or 3 of 6 which you believe, MUBB was not on the bubble with the amount of frequency the other poster mentioned.
There were not concerns about Buzz being MU's coach by level headed people. Buzz had MUBB successful early, in the middle, and later in his stay at MU. And of course, with regards to the bubble, getting in matters. Winning one, two, or three games in the NCAA matters. Doing that with frequency also matters. The conversation was and is whether or not Buzz and Wojo have been comparable at MU as the other poster suggested, and, I responded saying the numbers show otherwise.You seem oddly determined to die on a hill of a 6 seeded MUBB NCAA team that the team was on the bubble in December, or January, or even mid February. They were safely/comfortably in the tournament.
Being on the bubble is about where you are when the NCAA selects its teams. Are you just in or just out of the NCAA's. That did not apply to MUBB in that particular season based on the numbers/facts of what happened.
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I joined Scoop in Oct 2011 - in other words, before Buzz's 4th season as coach (and after our first S16 appearance). I don't remember too many people beyotching about Buzz from that point until his final season went south.
There was some moaning about this loss or that: Vanderbilt in 2011, Florida in 2012, definitely Green Bay 2012 ... and of course, joyless willie hated him and everybody else, and hoopaloop was hoopaloopin' ... but by and large, Scoopers seemed to dig Buzz.
I remember asking fairly early in my time what the reaction had been to Buzz getting the job, and lots of Scoopers weighed in to say mostly negative at first but then folks warmed up to him fairly quickly.