Seniors vs Frosh/Soph Starters

[GooooMarquette]

Two seniors:  7-13 from the field (54%), 14 rebs (7.0 avg.), 7 assists (3.5 avg.).

Three frosh/sophs:  11-35 from the field (31%), 13 rebs (4.33 avg.), 4 assists (1.33 avg.).

Be careful what you wish for....

[ChicosBailBonds]

Two seniors:  7-13 from the field (54%), 14 rebs (7.0 avg.), 7 assists (3.5 avg.).

Three frosh/sophs:  11-35 from the field (31%), 13 rebs (4.33 avg.), 4 assists (1.33 avg.).

Be careful what you wish for....

Maybe they're late bloomers....or maybe the last GM couldn't pick high school talent very well.  I'm looking forward to next year either way.

[NersEllenson]

Two seniors:  7-13 from the field (54%), 14 rebs (7.0 avg.), 7 assists (3.5 avg.).

Three frosh/sophs:  11-35 from the field (31%), 13 rebs (4.33 avg.), 4 assists (1.33 avg.).

Be careful what you wish for....

Juan has been decent this whole year other than a 5 game stretch during conference play.  You could be a winning basketball team having a guy like Juan Anderson play 25 minutes per game.  His senior counterpart??  Not so much.

But here's a question:  Why are our senior leaders and most experienced players NOT taking more shots??  Why are our underclassmen having to launch nearly 2.5 times as many shots?  Derrick has AMPLE opportunities to take shots..all game..every game.  Why doesn't he?  Because you and everyone else know he can't make them unless it's a layup, and that is questionable at times.  Although I do think Derrick hit his first non 3 point or layup shot of the season with that spin move pull up jumper from 6 feet in the lane.

[GooooMarquette]

But here's a question:  Why are our senior leaders and most experienced players NOT taking more shots??  Why are our underclassmen having to launch nearly 2.5 times as many shots?  Derrick has AMPLE opportunities to take shots..all game..every game.  Why doesn't he?  Because you and everyone else know he can't make them unless it's a layup, and that is questionable at times.  Although I do think Derrick hit his first non 3 point or layup shot of the season with that spin move pull up jumper from 6 feet in the lane.

You are correct.  Derrick has limitations, and knows how to play within them. 

[esotericmindguy]

Two seniors:  7-13 from the field (54%), 14 rebs (7.0 avg.), 7 assists (3.5 avg.).

Three frosh/sophs:  11-35 from the field (31%), 13 rebs (4.33 avg.), 4 assists (1.33 avg.).

Be careful what you wish for....

Not sure the motivation for the post, I don't follow everything. But, I wish for seniors that don't dribble without moving vs. a zone. I wish for seniors that don't hold the ball for 5 seconds vs. a zone. I wish for a senior that can make a 20 foot jump shot. I wish for seniors that can make free throws. I wish for a senior that actually makes players around them better. I wish for seniors that don't allow their defenders to clog the lane and allow for immediate double teams in the post.

I can all but gaurantee all the frosh/soph players in the game last night will be much better than the seniors. This team cannot score BECAUSE of the seniors in the game. No driving lanes, no open shots, and immediate double teams. So you can throw stats out of 3 foot shots, but the young players are relied upon to create shots, shoot at end of shot clock, take 3 pointers and drive the lane.

[GooooMarquette]

Lots of wishing.  We all wish the team was better.  The motivation for my post was pointing out that the seniors - while they bear the bulk of the abuse on this board - are far from the bulk of the problems.

JJJ can't hit a 3 to save his life, yet people call Matt a "chucker."  Even Derrick hits a higher percentage than JJJ.

Luke got the ball on the block all night long...and mostly hit the side of the backboard or traveled, yet people claim Derrick can't find the open man.  Derrick had 5 assists last night...and he could have had 8 or 9 if Luke went up strong.

And yet the seniors still get ripped.  In the game thread - during a game where Juan was the only guy playing a good game, and Derrick was no worse than the other starters - posters openly longed for the day when our seniors are gone.

Get the motivation for the post now?

[NersEllenson]

Not sure the motivation for the post, I don't follow everything. But, I wish for seniors that don't dribble without moving vs. a zone. I wish for seniors that don't hold the ball for 5 seconds vs. a zone. I wish for a senior that can make a 20 foot jump shot. I wish for seniors that can make free throws. I wish for a senior that actually makes players around them better. I wish for seniors that don't allow their defenders to clog the lane and allow for immediate double teams in the post.

I can all but gaurantee all the frosh/soph players in the game last night will be much better than the seniors. This team cannot score BECAUSE of the seniors in the game. No driving lanes, no open shots, and immediate double teams. So you can throw stats out of 3 foot shots, but the young players are relied upon to create shots, shoot at end of shot clock, take 3 pointers and drive the lane.

+1

You are correct.  Derrick has limitations, and knows how to play within them. 

Love this meme "knows how to play within them."  (In other words, basically do nothing on the offensive end as our PG, and guy who is supposed to drive the offense/create offense.)  His limitations make offense for all of his teammates a living hell.  For the second year in a row.

Now having said this for the one minute Duane played PG, Duane threw away an inbounds pass, and then we had a relatively ugly possession where Steve made a brutal kick out pass out of the post that left Duane scrambling to try to corral it off the floor.  I can say for the 1:30 seconds Derrick was off the floor last night, we did not look good either.  Yet, I would still like A LOT more data of what the team would look like with Derrick being relegated to a 15 minute role at this point.  What do we have to lose?  And if Wojo can't land a PG this spring (and I'm skeptical that he will be able to land one that can have an immediate impact), we better get Duane some experience now.

[GooooMarquette]

In other words, basically do nothing on the offensive end as our PG, and guy who is supposed to drive the offense/create offense.

"Basically do nothing on the offensive end as our PG."

He shoots better than JJJ (strange but true), and as you admitted he runs the offense better than Duane.  He had 5 assists last night, and could easily have had more if Luke hadn't disappeared after the first five minutes.  And in 37 minutes running the point, he had 1 turnover.  Even with Luke's disappearance, that's a 5:1 assist/turnover ratio.

Basically nothing.

[esotericmindguy]

Lots of wishing. 

That's the sad part, I'm not asking for much. I understand Anderson and Wilson play above average defense and rebound well for their position. But the game is played on both ends, and these two players are an absolute liability on offense. A 20 foot shot isn't that difficult, FTs are easy, and moving the ball against the zone is something they teach you in 6th grade. It's extremely hard to score when 40% of your team doesn't need to be covered. It's obvious now that Carlino covers much of the issues up with great outside shooting.

Fair or not, they're seniors...they deserve the bulk of the blame. This isn't UWM, there are expectations when you accept a scholarship at a major DI college. They are given every opportunity to improve and succeed. When you don't produce you're open for critisicm. Don't like it, go somewhere else. If JJJ continues to be terrible from 3 he'll get ripped as well (he already is). Fischer doesn't develop post moves he'll get ripped like Merritt. Duane doesn't improve on a stellar freshman year he'll get ripped like D James. It's the way it is. It's a tough year because many of us expect Marquette basketball to be a consistent top 20 team.

[esotericmindguy]

And in 37 minutes running the point, he had 1 turnover.  Even with Luke's disappearance, that's a 5:1 assist/turnover ratio.

Go back and watch the game again. How would he turn the ball over when he never does anything? He's a good ball handler, we're happy for him. Honestly, if I'm an opposing coach I love playing against D Wilson. I put my best offensive player on him so he can rest on defense and clog the lane. Can't drive and can't feed post.

There is absolutely no defense for Derrrick. I'm sure he's a nice guy and it's not his fault there isn't a better option...but he's bad at basketball. Plain and simple. Watching him dribble for 10 seconds with a 10 foot cushion makes me want to pull my hair out.

[GooooMarquette]

But the game is played on both ends, and these two players are an absolute liability on offense.

Which brings us back to the point of my OP - they were not the main liability on offense last night.  Not even close.

[Daniel]

And our senior Derrick is the only one on the team whi can bring  the ball up against pressure and dribble in traffic.

The overall talent on the team by position is weaker than our opponents. Our 7-8 guys are not as good as our opponents 7-8 guys. Next year will be better if we find a point guard and a SF.

[GooooMarquette]

Go back and watch the game again. How would he turn the ball over when he never does anything? He's a good ball handler, we're happy for him. Honestly, if I'm an opposing coach I love playing against D Wilson. I put my best offensive player on him so he can rest on defense and clog the lane. Can't drive and can't feed post.

Can't feed the post?  Seriously?  Did you see how many times he got the ball to Luke within 3 feet of the hoop...and how many times Luke botched it up by clanking it off the side of the backboard or traveling? You need to go back and watch the game. Sounds like you missed quite a bit.

[connie]

That's the sad part, I'm not asking for much. I understand Anderson and Wilson play above average defense and rebound well for their position. But the game is played on both ends, and these two players are an absolute liability on offense. A 20 foot shot isn't that difficult, FTs are easy, and moving the ball against the zone is something they teach you in 6th grade. It's extremely hard to score when 40% of your team doesn't need to be covered. It's obvious now that Carlino covers much of the issues up with great outside shooting.

Fair or not, they're seniors...they deserve the bulk of the blame. This isn't UWM, there are expectations when you accept a scholarship at a major DI college. They are given every opportunity to improve and succeed. When you don't produce you're open for critisicm. Don't like it, go somewhere else. If JJJ continues to be terrible from 3 he'll get ripped as well (he already is). Fischer doesn't develop post moves he'll get ripped like Merritt. Duane doesn't improve on a stellar freshman year he'll get ripped like D James. It's the way it is. It's a tough year because many of us expect Marquette basketball to be a consistent top 20 team.

I strongly disagree with part of your post.  Juan and Derrick are what they are:  great teammates, great kids, but best suited as 10-12 minute subs off the bench.

The blame goes to the Buzzard, who left us with a steaming pile of nothing.  You can legitimately complain about our seniors, but remember we only have one junior--Steve!  

MU as a program simply cannot have two classes in a row with essentially spot minute talent followed by a third class that is wildly inconsistent and expect to accomplish anything close to what we are accustomed to seeing.  I assume Bert was planning on bringing in Jucos, and when the admin tightened the screws on that strategy he took off while the gettin was good.  The end result was what we saw last night.  We were outmanned and out talented.  I know Wojo takes some flack, and I will fully concede I am still in "honeymoon" mode where he is concerned, but looking at what we put out on the floor game after game I am surprised that we have kept many games as close as we have.  I give credit for that to the effort of the kids we have and the effort of the coaches.  I put the blame on the one that let this situation build to the point it has reached.

[NersEllenson]

Can't feed the post?  Seriously?  Did you see how many times he got the ball to Luke within 3 feet of the hoop...and how many times Luke botched it up by clanking it off the side of the backboard or traveling? You need to go back and watch the game. Sounds like you missed quite a bit.

Actually I recall Duane and JJJ getting Luke the ball a lot more in the game than Derrick.  I vividly recall one second half awful possession that highlighted the crux of the issue with Derrick trying to feed the post.  Derrick was on the right wing, just inside the 3 point line.  Luke was on low block. Derrick's defender was sagging 4 feet off of him toward Luke.  Derrick of course didn't look to shoot the ball.  Decided I'm going to drive AT my defender a couple of dribbles - now the distance between he and Luke is about 5 feet of separation with Derrick's defender in between Derrick and Luke - and Derrick tried to force a bounce pass to Luke from a next to impossible position.  It got deflected out of bounds (which was actually a fortunate outcome as it could have easily been stolen.)

[NersEllenson]

"Basically do nothing on the offensive end as our PG."

He shoots better than JJJ (strange but true), and as you admitted he runs the offense better than Duane.  He had 5 assists last night, and could easily have had more if Luke hadn't disappeared after the first five minutes.  And in 37 minutes running the point, he had 1 turnover.  Even with Luke's disappearance, that's a 5:1 assist/turnover ratio.

Basically nothing.

Just FYI - JJJ shoots 49.2% from 2 point FG, Derrick 48.9% - just FYI.  Furthermore  JJJ has made 59 2point FG to Derrick's 45 2 point FGs.  Derrick of course has played 277 more minutes than JJJ.  Though JJJ is shooting poorly and worse from the 3 point line than Derrick - the fact he takes them still requires the defense to come out and defend him.  He is defended honestly everywhere on the floor.  This alone has value comparative to the reality of Derrick's limitations.

Additionally, Derricks Turnover Percentage is actually higher than JJJ.  Because Derrick rarely does anything with the ball and rarely is measured in Possession data.  I'm not that impressed with 5 assists in 38 minutes of basketball either.  Considering how little Derrick shoots and how much the ball is in his hands, he's going to default his way into assists.  As I recall last night, he made 1 assist that truly created a good look for Luke on some penetration and a dump off along the baseline.

[willie warrior]

Two seniors:  7-13 from the field (54%), 14 rebs (7.0 avg.), 7 assists (3.5 avg.).

Three frosh/sophs:  11-35 from the field (31%), 13 rebs (4.33 avg.), 4 assists (1.33 avg.).

Be careful what you wish for....

There have been other games where those numbers were reversed. And Derrick's numbers for the year speak volumes.

[esotericmindguy]

Which brings us back to the point of my OP - they were not the main liability on offense last night.  Not even close.

I guess I see a different game than you. It's not all about statistics, the two players you mention only shoot 5 feet and in. Allowing coaches to defend 3 players is a huge advantage, not to mention allowing your best offensive players to rest on defense. Defense is exhausting if you have to chase shooters. Being able to go under EVERY screen and not having to defend the ball saves a ton of energy.

[GooooMarquette]

I guess I see a different game than you. It's not all about statistics, the two players you mention only shoot 5 feet and in. Allowing coaches to defend 3 players is a huge advantage, not to mention allowing your best offensive players to rest on defense. Defense is exhausting if you have to chase shooters. Being able to go under EVERY screen and not having to defend the ball saves a ton of energy.

Derrick and Juan both shoot better from beyind the arc than JJJ.  Strange, but true.

[muwarrior69]

Maybe they're late bloomers....or maybe the last GM couldn't pick high school talent very well.  I'm looking forward to next year either way.

I am looking forward to next season as well. Henry may be the first player we have presently that can consistently score which should open up the lanes for Duane and JJJ. They also will not be able to double team Luke. Hopefully Cheatham will be able to contribute as well. Now if we can get a guy who can hit the open shot (not Henry) from the perimeter we should be competitive next season.

On another note it just amazes me how Butler is so competitive with 2-3 star guys.

[BM1090]

Derrick and Juan both shoot better from beyind the arc than JJJ.  Strange, but true.

Not only that, Juan is our 2nd most accurate 3P shooter this season,  behind Carlino.

[Lennys Tap]

Derrick and Juan both shoot better from beyind the arc than JJJ.  Strange, but true.

Derrick and Juan are 23 for 70 from 3. Juan is 9 for 53.  He needs to go 14 for his next 17 just to TIE Derrick and Juan. That is some big time hideous shooting.

[77ncaachamps]

It doesn't help a big if he doesn't have...

...shooters on the wings.
...excellent passers into the post.
...guys who can score when cutting to the hoop.
...teammates who don't move without the ball.
...a front court presence to preoccupy the other big.

[HutchwasClutch]

Watching this year's team, it's painfully obvious why Buzz wanted out to the first school that would take him, and was willing to accept a pay cut to a school that has zero basketball tradition.   He knew this team would be bad this year, because the upperclassmen are few, are no good, and the young guys wouldn't be near ready to play consistently at a high enough level to win.

Buzz knew full well another down year and he'd be in major trouble, not to mention he obviously knew his act was wearing thin quickly already with the powers that be at MU (such as they were when he left, since rebuilt).  He talked in that one interview with I think Gary Parrish from CBS Sports about his obsessive fear over getting fired from a job.  He made the jump knowing the ax was going to be falling soon on him with the roster he had assembled.  

He probably truly wasn't high on the future of the Big East, and wanted back in bed with ESPN and to jump in the ACC, but he knew what was coming this season.  And remember he was staring at a roster without an accomplished player like Carlino on board either as he jumped ship.

[HutchwasClutch]

The blame goes to the Buzzard, who left us with a steaming pile of nothing.

Absolutley correct.  He brought aboard Sandy and Duane, that's it.  And while they've each had moments this year, neither of them are ready to contribute consistently to a winner this season.  No fault to those guys, it's how it usually is as freshman.  Luke fell in MU's lap, I give Buzz zero credit for him.  He wanted to come back home and play, period. 

BUzz simply could not sustain the success he started.  The DJO's, Butler's, Crowders, Vander's, moved on, and he fell way short of adequately replacing them.  Hence, we're 3-9 in conference, and staring at consecutive seasons of being shut out of any post-season play. 

Nicely done Buzz, you turd.


 

[GooooMarquette]

It doesn't help a big if he doesn't have...

...shooters on the wings.
...excellent passers into the post.
...guys who can score when cutting to the hoop.
...teammates who don't move without the ball.
...a front court presence to preoccupy the other big.

And likewise, it doesn't help the guard when the big takes an entry pass...and then pump fakes until the defense surrounds him.  Luke needs to learn to go up strong.  Help works both ways.

[NersEllenson]

Absolutley correct.  He brought aboard Sandy and Duane, that's it.  And while they've each had moments this year, neither of them are ready to contribute consistently to a winner this season.  No fault to those guys, it's how it usually is as freshman.  Luke fell in MU's lap, I give Buzz zero credit for him.  He wanted to come back home and play, period. 

BUzz simply could not sustain the success he started.  The DJO's, Butler's, Crowders, Vander's, moved on, and he fell way short of adequately replacing them.  Hence, we're 3-9 in conference, and staring at consecutive seasons of being shut out of any post-season play. 

Nicely done Buzz, you turd.

Hutch - Generally agree with many of your posts - though disagree on JJJ as a player - think he'll be a good one.  This post though I think is a little off.  Had Buzz stayed - Steve Taylor and JJJ are gone.  However, Mayo, Burton, Dawson, Ahmed Hill, Marial Shayok and Satchel Pierce are here.  Shayok getting decent spot minutes on Virginia (number two team in the country.)  Mayo would have put up Carlino-esque numbers this year.  And I believe Burton would have been a 15ppg scorer under Buzz.  Ahmed Hill has some game as well.

I was really down on Buzz last year, yet have NO doubt had he stayed we would have been A LOT better this season.  A LOT. 

[HutchwasClutch]

Hutch - Generally agree with many of your posts - though disagree on JJJ as a player - think he'll be a good one.  This post though I think is a little off.  Had Buzz stayed - Steve Taylor and JJJ are gone.  However, Mayo, Burton, Dawson, Ahmed Hill, Marial Shayok and Satchel Pierce are here.  Shayok getting decent spot minutes on Virginia (number two team in the country.)  Mayo would have put up Carlino-esque numbers this year.  And I believe Burton would have been a 15ppg scorer under Buzz.  Ahmed Hill has some game as well.

I was really down on Buzz last year, yet have NO doubt had he stayed we would have been A LOT better this season.  A LOT.  

I've been keeping tabs on both Ahmed HIll and Shayok, and they've both shown no more ability this year to be ready to contribute consistently than Cohen, and less than Duane Wilson.  Shayok hasn't scored a point since January 22nd, 0-10 since.  Emphasis on Shayok is playing for number two in the nation.  Nothing's expected, he has no pressure to produce, he can play a small role on an excellent team, and learn behind more experienced guys.  

Ahmed Hill?  In VT's win over Georgia Tech (aside - Brian Gregory is so getting fired as soon as their season finishes) - 0 pts in 30 minutes.  Granted, he had 19 the game before that, but generally, has been up and down, and mostly mediocre all season.  

Mayo was never remotely "Carlino-esque" in his MU career.  He was a streak shooter, a poor defender, and loose with the ball.  He's not even close to Carlino.  

Burton 15 ppg - highly doubtful - he averaged less than 7 ppg last year, so you're assuming more than doubling his scoring output in one year.  Not to mention no team defense out of him or passing, no making anyone else or the team one iota better.  He played selfish.

I don't buy any of your arguments here.  MU is sorely lacking upperclassman production game in and game out, and none of these guys would have provided that this season.  None.   They would have been as inconsistent and no better alternative than from our current roster.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Hutch - Generally agree with many of your posts - though disagree on JJJ as a player - think he'll be a good one.  This post though I think is a little off.  Had Buzz stayed - Steve Taylor and JJJ are gone.  However, Mayo, Burton, Dawson, Ahmed Hill, Marial Shayok and Satchel Pierce are here.  Shayok getting decent spot minutes on Virginia (number two team in the country.)  Mayo would have put up Carlino-esque numbers this year.  And I believe Burton would have been a 15ppg scorer under Buzz.  Ahmed Hill has some game as well.

I was really down on Buzz last year, yet have NO doubt had he stayed we would have been A LOT better this season.  A LOT.  

I can tell you that Mayo would not be here....IMO. 

I'm not sure we would be a lot better.  This team you are looking at is his GM work.  He didn't value point guards, which is key to success in college basketball.  You have stated all along your concerns about a certain PG, and that doesn't change.  He just doesn't value them like you need to compete at the highest levels.

[HutchwasClutch]

I can tell you that Mayo would not be here.

I agree with that too - he was looking for a way out regardless.

[HutchwasClutch]

I want to emphasize that in my response to Ners, my comment about Cohen was in no way meant to disrespect him.  I love the guy's potential.  He's a vital piece of the puzzle I strongly believe.  My point was he's had a few really nice moments this year, but in general, has played like a kid fresh out of high school, up and down, inconsistent.  Nothing surprsing about that though. 

[connie]

I was really down on Buzz last year, yet have NO doubt had he stayed we would have been A LOT better this season.  A LOT. 

Is this with or without Buzz giving your favorite point guard 30-35 minutes a game--------JUST like he did last year?

[GGGG]

I can tell you that Mayo would not be here....IMO. 

Ners has been told this multiple times by multiple people.  Mayo wasn't run off.  Wojo didn't have the option to let him back.  Buzz wouldn't have had him back either.

But of course that doesn't fit the narrative...

[NersEllenson]

Is this with or without Buzz giving your favorite point guard 30-35 minutes a game--------JUST like he did last year?

I suspect Buzz would have ratcheted Derrick's playing time down some, given the struggles he saw first hand last season and now having Duane Wilson healthy.  Furthermore, he showed a willingness to play Dawson anywhere from 10-30 minutes per game in Big East play.  Hard to think Dawson would have regressed with an offseason of work to not be able to provide those same minutes/likely more. And while Dawson had some struggles in his playing time, he had some moments as well -actually as you look at Sandy Cohen's Big East body of work, its been a similar story - some moments, some struggles.

I can tell you that Mayo would not be here....IMO.  

I'm not sure we would be a lot better.  This team you are looking at is his GM work.  He didn't value point guards, which is key to success in college basketball.  You have stated all along your concerns about a certain PG, and that doesn't change.  He just doesn't value them like you need to compete at the highest levels.

So you can tell me IN YOUR OPINION, Mayo would not have been on the team under Buzz - even though Buzz kept him around 3 years and through many ups and downs?  Only way Mayo would be gone under Buzz was if Admin forced Buzz to cut ties.  From your sources, is that what you were hearing?

Also, not sure Buzz doesn't value PG's, as he'd said ideally he'd like to recruit one in every class.  There was Cadougan, Reggie Smith, Derrick, Duane, Dawson - though both Duane/Dawson seen as combo guards and not pure point.  The big issue is Derrick never really improved as a player offensively in his 4 years at MU, and the lack of improvement handcuffed last year and this year's team tremendously.  Contrast that with Crean:  He hit big on Diener for 4 years, and then Dom James for another 3 years of his tenure.  Mo served as a good back up for Dom - but Crean had NO serviceable back up for Diener for 3 years.

[NersEllenson]

Ners has been told this multiple times by multiple people.  Mayo wasn't run off.  Wojo didn't have the option to let him back.  Buzz wouldn't have had him back either.

But of course that doesn't fit the narrative...

I'm still so amused by people who are "afraid" to post what they allude to given that Mayo has now been gone for almost a year.  If it is a fact, and what they are alluding to is true - then what's the issue with flat out saying it??  So, Sultan - Why was Wojo not allowed to have Mayo back on the team?

Because I have a good source that says Wojo and Mayo got into it over Mayo being gone over the summer and playing in the the Chicago Summer League, and not on campus bonding with Wojo and his teammates.    Mayo walked out on Wojo and said F-It, "I'm going pro."

[GGGG]

I have been told by multiple people that it was more than just heading to Chicago to play in the summer league. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Because I have a good source that says Wojo and Mayo got into it over Mayo being gone over the summer and playing in the the Chicago Summer League, and not on campus bonding with Wojo and his teammates.    Mayo walked out on Wojo and said F-It, "I'm going pro."

No one has told you this. If someone has, they are lying to you. Mayo done fooked up, worse than anytime before.

Ners, you know me. I don't post things as fact very often.

[NersEllenson]

No one has told you this. If someone has, they are lying to you. Mayo done fooked up, worse than anytime before.

Ners, you know me. I don't post things as fact very often.

I don't lie either TAMU, and this is what I was told by a very good source who has been accurate with other information as well.

If you are convinced your version is fact - why again are you just not willing to post here what the specific fook up was? 

[rocky_warrior]

I don't lie either TAMU, and this is what I was told by a very good source who has been accurate with other information as well.

If you are convinced your version is fact - why again are you just not willing to post here what the specific fook up was? 

I don't know anything that isn't public knowledge, but he had what seems like a minor brush up with the law on July 26 "Failure to Obey Traffic Officer/Signal", and then decided to leave on Jul 30.

[NersEllenson]

I don't know anything that isn't public knowledge, but he had what seems like a minor brush up with the law on July 26 "Failure to Obey Traffic Officer/Signal", and then decided to leave on Jul 30.

I wasn't aware of that. But if this kind of brush up is enough to discharge a player from the program (even if player struggled academically and had other minor issues - but no egregious legal issues) we might as well get out of D-1, high major athletics. 

[tower912]

I don't know anything that isn't public knowledge, but he had what seems like a minor brush up with the law on July 26 "Failure to Obey Traffic Officer/Signal", and then decided to leave on Jul 30.

Seems minor.    Unless, due to previous infractions, he was on a zero-tolerance probation. 

[rocky_warrior]

Seems minor.    Unless, due to previous infractions, he was on a zero-tolerance probation. 

Agreed, and either a) That's not the reason for him leaving, or b) there's more to the story and that was a very lenient charge.

[Texas Western]

I'm still so amused by people who are "afraid" to post what they allude to given that Mayo has now been gone for almost a year.  If it is a fact, and what they are alluding to is true - then what's the issue with flat out saying it??  So, Sultan - Why was Wojo not allowed to have Mayo back on the team?

Because I have a good source that says Wojo and Mayo got into it over Mayo being gone over the summer and playing in the the Chicago Summer League, and not on campus bonding with Wojo and his teammates.    Mayo walked out on Wojo and said F-It, "I'm going pro."

Pretty much what happened.

[connie]

Yeah, because Mayo signing up for the summer league came after Wojo's hiring on April 1, so of course this all blew up at a practice on July 29 or 30.  And of course there is this bit from the story: "Mayo ran afoul of former coach Buzz Williams on three occasions, but there were no indications that he was not meshing with the new staff."  I'll grant you that was Mike Hunt, but you would think there would have been a bit more than "Well maybe if you were here bonding with your teammates you would be further along"--"Oh yeah. f-this, I'm going pro."

Even with your version of the tale there is obviously more to tell.

[Lennys Tap]

One thing everybody seems to agree on - until late July Mayo was in good standing and both he and Wojo expected him to be playing for MU this year. So I guess the guy whose "inside source" tipped him months earlier that Mayo was gone can stop patting himself on the back.

[willie warrior]

I don't know anything that isn't public knowledge, but he had what seems like a minor brush up with the law on July 26 "Failure to Obey Traffic Officer/Signal", and then decided to leave on Jul 30.

Sometimes these incidents can be misleading. Have no idea what the circumstances were with Mayo, but I remember once that Randy Moss tried to run over a traffic officer. Don't recall the outcome, but that can be pretty serious. Or maybe I misremember that Moss incident.

[g0lden3agle]

Sometimes these incidents can be misleading. Have no idea what the circumstances were with Mayo, but I remember once that Randy Moss tried to run over a traffic officer. Don't recall the outcome, but that can be pretty serious. Or maybe I misremember that Moss incident.

But it's way easier to interpret the legal issue as something that fits nicely into the Ners narrative blender.

[NersEllenson]

But it's way easier to interpret the legal issue as something that fits nicely into the Ners narrative blender.

I'd say it is a far bigger stretch to think Mayo tried to run over a please officer, and that is what ultimately got him his ticket - and the matter was never even in the public eye - unlike the Vander Blue assault, and the underage players in a bar (gasp), and not even drinking at that...

[g0lden3agle]

I'd say it is a far bigger stretch to think Mayo tried to run over a please officer, and that is what ultimately got him his ticket - and the matter was never even in the public eye - unlike the Vander Blue assault, and the underage players in a bar (gasp), and not even drinking at that...

Fair point.  The fact there were never any public reports of what he did probably does mean it couldn't have been that serious when you consider all the things that HAVE gone public over the years.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Burton 15 ppg - highly doubtful - he averaged less than 7 ppg last year, so you're assuming more than doubling his scoring output in one year.  Not to mention no team defense out of him or passing, no making anyone else or the team one iota better.  He played selfish.

True.  Burton might still be here, and if he was he might be scoring more than his freshman year due to need for scorers on the team, but think about why he didn't play more as a freshman.  Buzz was well aware of Deonte's offensive capabilities, but why did Buzz yank him out of games?  A severe disinterest in defense or doing anything other than scoring.  That didn't change at all in the start to his sophomore season.

[GGGG]

It was a $179 fine.  I don't think he tried to run over a cop.  And my guess is that this isn't what TAMU is talking about.

[NersEllenson]

You can see this exchange between Jeff Goodman and another college basketball insider to further educate on the Mayo/Wojo relationship.

https://dailyeagle.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/screen-shot-2014-07-30-at-10-34-59-pm.png?w=580&h=529

From this article:

http://marquettenation.com/2014/07/31/todd-mayo-leaves-marquette-to-pursue-professional-career/

[GooooMarquette]

You can see this exchange between Jeff Goodman and another college basketball insider to further educate on the Mayo/Wojo relationship.

https://dailyeagle.files.wordpress.com/2014/07/screen-shot-2014-07-30-at-10-34-59-pm.png?w=580&h=529

From this article:

http://marquettenation.com/2014/07/31/todd-mayo-leaves-marquette-to-pursue-professional-career/

At least the article correctly noted that Mayo's departure would result in the potential for expanded roles for Duane, JJJ and John.  By saying that, the author seemed to understand it was clear that Derrick would be the starter at PG either way.

[77ncaachamps]

Absolutley correct.  He brought aboard Sandy and Duane, that's it.  And while they've each had moments this year, neither of them are ready to contribute consistently to a winner this season.  No fault to those guys, it's how it usually is as freshman.  Luke fell in MU's lap, I give Buzz zero credit for him.  He wanted to come back home and play, period. 

BUzz simply could not sustain the success he started.  The DJO's, Butler's, Crowders, Vander's, moved on, and he fell way short of adequately replacing them.  Hence, we're 3-9 in conference, and staring at consecutive seasons of being shut out of any post-season play. 

Nicely done Buzz, you turd.

Wait a minute.

As much as I want to draw all over this picture
,
Hill, Shayok and Pierce would have been here too.

Yeah, not the experience you'd like to see but definitely they would spell the #8Strong.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't know anything that isn't public knowledge, but he had what seems like a minor brush up with the law on July 26 "Failure to Obey Traffic Officer/Signal", and then decided to leave on Jul 30.

As far as I know it had nothing to do with Mayo's departure.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I don't lie either TAMU, and this is what I was told by a very good source who has been accurate with other information as well.

They were misinformed.

If this is the same source who gives you all of your dirt on Wojo, I would reevaluate his/her reliability. S/he seems to have a perspective that always ends up with Wojo looking incompetent or unethical. Seems like an axe to grind.

Do you really think it is likely that a first year coach would dismiss one of his best players because he signed up for a summer basketball league? Or do you think its more likely that a player with a LONG history of misconduct off the court did something dumb and the coach wouldn't have any of it?

If you are convinced your version is fact - why again are you just not willing to post here what the specific fook up was? 

Simple. The people I talked to know what my scoop name is and come on the site often. If I say more than I have, they stop trusting me and I don't get to hear about fun new developments in the future. It's a really simple concept.

[NersEllenson]

They were misinformed.

If this is the same source who gives you all of your dirt on Wojo, I would reevaluate his/her reliability. S/he seems to have a perspective that always ends up with Wojo looking incompetent or unethical. Seems like an axe to grind.

Do you really think it is likely that a first year coach would dismiss one of his best players because he signed up for a summer basketball league? Or do you think its more likely that a player with a LONG history of misconduct off the court did something dumb and the coach wouldn't have any of it?

Simple. The people I talked to know what my scoop name is and come on the site often. If I say more than I have, they stop trusting me and I don't get to hear about fun new developments in the future. It's a really simple concept.

Your people were misinformed.

And yes, once Wojo sealed the Carlino deal, I have no doubt he felt he could play hardball and hardass toward/with Todd.  He had his Plan B in place.

[GooooMarquette]

"My source knows more than your source."

Only on scoop.

[NersEllenson]

"My source knows more than your source."

Only on scoop.

Except I'm giving you specifics as to what my source said went down.  The other side?  Nothing but innuendo, spin, and speculation.  If what their sources say is true - it aint libel to write it here - so again, what are they so afraid of?  (Other than being wrong of course.)

[HutchwasClutch]

Wow, talk about a thread taking a detour right off the rails.