MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: brewcity77 on April 15, 2021, 03:54:58 PM
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Cracked Sidewalks looks at the landslide of recruits that came in after our last reporting, does some shallow dives on the players, and looks at where we could go from here.
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2021/04/take-breath-marquette.html
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On Tyler Kolek:
In discussions behind the scenes, the staff used words like "toughness" and "balls" to describe his style of play
Maybe it was in the context of "he balls out"?
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On Tyler Kolek:
Maybe it was in the context of "he balls out"?
Great. Brad Davison has a target now.
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Don't be surprised if one of the big rumors out there proves to be true...
Who is this rumored coach?
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Don't be surprised if one of the big rumors out there proves to be true...
Who is this rumored coach?
In Shakas presser he said it should be done within the next or so. Hopefully tomorrow we will know.
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Lmao, well played cheebs, well played!
Great. Brad Davison has a target now.
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I missed it. What’s the rumor??
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Don't be surprised if one of the big rumors out there proves to be true...
Who is this rumored coach?
Theo to be a backup center at duke?
Dex, Jose, Greg, possibly transferring out?
The coach is likely Deandre Haynes from maryland
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So far it looks like the team will be very young but the potential is there. I expect continued improvement throughout the year and expect them to be a real force by year two. We will not need to wait 7 years again. Shaka will become the "Shock'em" coach in the Big East in 2-3 years.
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Theo to be a backup center at duke?
Dex, Jose, Greg, possibly transferring out?
The coach is likely Deandre Haynes from maryland
I've read this on here and twitter (with Morsell following) but I've also heard a rumor that is significantly more "out there" or what I would call "almost certainly bullcrap". But who knows.
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What did you hear, The Hound? Who knows, maybe true.
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I've read this on here and twitter (with Morsell following) but I've also heard a rumor that is significantly more "out there" or what I would call "almost certainly bullcrap". But who knows.
That rumor is certainly bullcrap
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What did you hear, The Hound? Who knows, maybe true.
I think he means the Baldwin package.
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I think he means the Baldwin package.
Wojo to UWM?
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Jake
I just wanted to see in print😎
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I think he means the Baldwin package.
Heard that one today from a former UWM hooper.
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I’ve heard that rumor from a few too many directions today.
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Knowledgeable directions?
Clueless rumor directions?
do tell more...
I’ve heard that rumor from a few too many directions today.
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It has spread far and fast. I suspect I know where from. I wonder if Baldwin is worried about job security and maybe trying to speak it into reality.
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I've read this on here and twitter (with Morsell following) but I've also heard a rumor that is significantly more "out there" or what I would call "almost certainly bullcrap". But who knows.
Wojo's coming back as an assistant?
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It has spread far and fast. I suspect I know where from. I wonder if Baldwin is worried about job security and maybe trying to speak it into reality.
My first thought upon hearing it was "Baldwin doesn't have a Goodman in his pocket so he needs to use Scoop to leak his interest in other jobs in order to get a contract extension."
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Would being on Shaka’s bench give Baldwin more potential job options going forward? Staying at UWM will likely just lead to eventually getting fired and not having many options at that point. An Asst. job at MU might even pay more than he’s getting at UWM.
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Baldwin the Elder taking an assistants job and bringing his kid with him seems like backwards thinking. UWM may not be a great job but you can have success there that can catapult you to bigger and better things. I can’t imagine any scenario where Elder leaves as a package deal with Junior as a way to bolster his job prospects long term. Maybe money is a deciding factor but I have a real hard time believing that
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Would being on Shaka’s bench give Baldwin more potential job options going forward? Staying at UWM will likely just lead to eventually getting fired and not having many options at that point. An Asst. job at MU might even pay more than he’s getting at UWM.
Oklahoma State did this with Cade Cunningham's dad.
Squirmy, but if the NCAA won't make a rule...
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Given the number of seemingly ridiculous MU-hoops-related rumors that have turned out to be true over these last 4-5 weeks ...
Welcome to Marquette, Baldwins!
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Oklahoma State did this with Cade Cunningham's dad.
Squirmy, but if the NCAA won't make a rule...
Not squirmy at all.
Is there anything squirmy about junior going to play with his dad at UWM?
Assuming there is no under the table payments, we’d be hiring an experienced coach and his son would come with him.
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Oklahoma State did this with Cade Cunningham's dad.
Squirmy, but if the NCAA won't make a rule...
Two thoughts:
A. I know Cunningham's brother (who had one year of experience on Dunleavy's staff at Tulane) is on the OSU staff. Was his father involved at some time too?
B. There is a huge difference between hiring a kid with some experience as a middle school coach and one year as a video coordinator and hiring a guy who has 20 years of experience coaching college basketball including four years as a DI head coach and four years as a P6 assistant.
There is no question that Baldwin is more than qualified for a spot on Shaka's bench. Besides, MU has had great success in the past when dealing with family members in the MBB program; it's always ended well.
And for the record, I'd be extraordinarly shocked if this rumor is actually true.
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Two thoughts:
A. I know Cunningham's brother (who had one year of experience on Dunleavy's staff at Tulane) is on the OSU staff. Was his father involved at some time too?
B. There is a huge difference between hiring a kid with some experience as a middle school coach and one year as a video coordinator and hiring a guy who has 20 years of experience coaching college basketball including four years as a DI head coach and four years as a P6 assistant.
There is no question that Baldwin is more than qualified for a spot on Shaka's bench. Besides, MU has had great success in the past when dealing with family members in the MBB program; it's always ended well.
And for the record, I'd be extraordinarly shocked if this rumor is actually true.
Correct.
Also correct that Cade's brother is no longer on staff. Weird timing, I guess?
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My little brother, who used to coach in the Milwaukee public league and still has lots of coaching friends he talks to regularly, puts this in the, "Probably just a rumor but not all that crazy a rumor" category. He has one friend who swears it's gonna happen but a couple others who just laugh at it.
In other words ... #donedeal
But let's say it does happen ...
I thought we wanted to be out of the 1-and-done business, not to mention the hire-family-members-just-to-get-at-a-great-player business.
Or do we think Shaka would handle such a situation so much better than Wojo did that, what the hell, it's worth a try?
I think I fall into that last camp.
What the hell! Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead, and let's go win a Big East title and a few NCAA tournament games!!
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My little brother, who used to coach in the Milwaukee public league and still has lots of coaching friends he talks to regularly, puts this in the, "Probably just a rumor but not all that crazy a rumor" category. He has one friend who swears it's gonna happen but a couple others who just laugh at it.
In other words ... #donedeal
But let's say it does happen ...
I thought we wanted to be out of the 1-and-done business, not to mention the hire-family-members-just-to-get-at-a-great-player business.
Or do we think Shaka would handle such a situation so much better than Wojo did that, what the hell, it's worth a try?
I think I fall into that last camp.
What the hell! Damn the torpedoes, full steam ahead, and let's go win a Big East title and a few NCAA tournament games!!
Honest question...and I know that I and others often ask similar questions as a joke...if the rumor is true* would he require a scholarship?
*I don't think the rumor is true. Feel free to surprise me, Shaka.
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Honest question...and I know that I and others often ask similar questions as a joke...if the rumor is true* would he require a scholarship?
*I don't think the rumor is true. Feel free to surprise me, Shaka.
Haha the classic legitimate “walk on son” angle, and we’ve come full circle!
I’ve had a weird feeling about Baldwin Jr since Shaka joined, my instincts told me that he would make a heavy push to bring the kid to Marquette for one season.
I have no idea if these rumors are true but if they are it would be amazing.
I mean on the surface it makes complete sense- kid wants to stay in Milwaukee with his pops knowing he will only play college for one season.
I don’t think playing in the Horizon will benefit him in the least due to the soft competition. It might not hurt his draft stock but it likely won’t improve his game as much as playing in the BE.
Combine that with being able to learn from both Shaka, who clearly values a high motor and doing things the right with with ultimate effort, and his dad at the same time as well as showcasing his skills off to the world versus BE talent and it’s honestly a no brainer to me.
I’m a homer though :)
That said, who can shed some more light on Mr. Baldwin Sr’s qualifications?
Baldwin Jr would be MUs highest rated recruit of my lifetime, and the best player on the court from day one, but Sr. is the one that would matter more in the big picture scheme of things.
If Patrick Baldwin Sr is a great pickup as associate head coach and can help Shaka recruit and coach this pickup would be a grand slam
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That said, who can shed some more light on Mr. Baldwin Sr’s qualifications?
Baldwin Jr would be MUs highest rated recruit of my lifetime, and the best player on the court from day one, but Sr. is the one that would matter more in the big picture scheme of things.
If Patrick Baldwin Sr is a great pickup as associate head coach and can help Shaka recruit and coach this pickup would be a grand slam
I know nothing about him other than what appears on his "resume" (i.e., wiki):
2001–2002 Lincoln (MO) (assistant)
2002–2004 Green Bay (assistant)
2004–2011 Loyola (IL) (assistant)
2011–2013 Missouri State(assistant)
2013–2017 Northwestern (assistant)
2017–present Milwaukee (head coach)
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Baldwin earns about $370k, well within MU's Associate Head Coach range.
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First, if this is happening, it means either a current assistant (Cody Hatt?) or Baldwin Sr will be taking a role at lower than an assistant coach level. DBO, Special Assistant, Director of Player Personnel, something like that.
Second, for me one-and-dones are best used to augment a team that is stable and ready for the next step rather than as a building block. If a Patrick Baldwin came along in 2-3 years when the rotation and roster had familiarity, I think it would be a better move.
I'm not saying it couldn't work, but I noticed that at Texas, Shaka had some big early gets like Jarrett Allen & Mo Bamba, but not much team success. However, when he developed roster continuity and had guys established in his system, adding Greg Brown helped a bubble team turn into a 3-seed.
This team seems to be building a culture. As it stands, there are ELEVEN freshmen and sophomores on next year's team. That's a team that will need time to get where we want it to go, and those players will likely develop best by getting meaningful reps early (and probably a redshirt or two). Bringing in someone that would be a gravitational force element on the court could delay those reps and development. I think that's less of an issue with an established role-player with collegiate experience, like a Darryl Morsell.
I'll trust the staff to make the best decisions, but I'm not personally convinced Baldwin would be it for the longer term success of this roster. And I'm also not convinced Shaka will force Hatt or Baldwin to a less-than-full-Assistant role.
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First, if this is happening, it means either a current assistant (Cody Hatt?) or Baldwin Sr will be taking a role at lower than an assistant coach level. DBO, Special Assistant, Director of Player Personnel, something like that.
Second, for me one-and-dones are best used to augment a team that is stable and ready for the next step rather than as a building block. If a Patrick Baldwin came along in 2-3 years when the rotation and roster had familiarity, I think it would be a better move.
I'm not saying it couldn't work, but I noticed that at Texas, Shaka had some big early gets like Jarrett Allen & Mo Bamba, but not much team success. However, when he developed roster continuity and had guys established in his system, adding Greg Brown helped a bubble team turn into a 3-seed.
This team seems to be building a culture. As it stands, there are ELEVEN freshmen and sophomores on next year's team. That's a team that will need time to get where we want it to go, and those players will likely develop best by getting meaningful reps early (and probably a redshirt or two). Bringing in someone that would be a gravitational force element on the court could delay those reps and development. I think that's less of an issue with an established role-player with collegiate experience, like a Darryl Morsell.
I'll trust the staff to make the best decisions, but I'm not personally convinced Baldwin would be it for the longer term success of this roster. And I'm also not convinced Shaka will force Hatt or Baldwin to a less-than-full-Assistant role.
I feel like we saw already what happens when you have a team of well regarded but young players, forced to sacrifice to showcase one player. As lovely as Henry's year was with the WI LSU and Prov wins and 20 overall wins, I don't think many would call it a success.
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I feel like we saw already what happens when you have a team of well regarded but young players, forced to sacrifice to showcase one player. As lovely as Henry's year was with the WI LSU and Prov wins and 20 overall wins, I don't think many would call it a success.
Let me say first
This Baldwin thing is not happening. 0%.
But hypothetically if it did. This roster with Baldwin, would be much, much, much more competitive than the roster with Henry.
Also, probably better coached.
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Brew, wasn’t there a change recently that in order to hire someone with a previous relationship to a recruit, it had to be to one of the 3 assistant spots.
I think that was to deter AAU or parents getting random athletic department jobs. So Baldwin would need to be an assistant.
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First, if this is happening, it means either a current assistant (Cody Hatt?) or Baldwin Sr will be taking a role at lower than an assistant coach level. DBO, Special Assistant, Director of Player Personnel, something like that.
Second, for me one-and-dones are best used to augment a team that is stable and ready for the next step rather than as a building block. If a Patrick Baldwin came along in 2-3 years when the rotation and roster had familiarity, I think it would be a better move.
I'm not saying it couldn't work, but I noticed that at Texas, Shaka had some big early gets like Jarrett Allen & Mo Bamba, but not much team success. However, when he developed roster continuity and had guys established in his system, adding Greg Brown helped a bubble team turn into a 3-seed.
This team seems to be building a culture. As it stands, there are ELEVEN freshmen and sophomores on next year's team. That's a team that will need time to get where we want it to go, and those players will likely develop best by getting meaningful reps early (and probably a redshirt or two). Bringing in someone that would be a gravitational force element on the court could delay those reps and development. I think that's less of an issue with an established role-player with collegiate experience, like a Darryl Morsell.
I'll trust the staff to make the best decisions, but I'm not personally convinced Baldwin would be it for the longer term success of this roster. And I'm also not convinced Shaka will force Hatt or Baldwin to a less-than-full-Assistant role.
Way, way, WAY too much common sense in here.
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Way, way, WAY too much common sense in here.
This is Scoop, this is no place for common sense
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Two thoughts:
A. I know Cunningham's brother (who had one year of experience on Dunleavy's staff at Tulane) is on the OSU staff. Was his father involved at some time too?
B. There is a huge difference between hiring a kid with some experience as a middle school coach and one year as a video coordinator and hiring a guy who has 20 years of experience coaching college basketball including four years as a DI head coach and four years as a P6 assistant.
There is no question that Baldwin is more than qualified for a spot on Shaka's bench. Besides, MU has had great success in the past when dealing with family members in the MBB program; it's always ended well.
And for the record, I'd be extraordinarly shocked if this rumor is actually true.
My mistake, his brother. Early morning mistakes and all.
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First, if this is happening, it means either a current assistant (Cody Hatt?) or Baldwin Sr will be taking a role at lower than an assistant coach level. DBO, Special Assistant, Director of Player Personnel, something like that.
Second, for me one-and-dones are best used to augment a team that is stable and ready for the next step rather than as a building block. If a Patrick Baldwin came along in 2-3 years when the rotation and roster had familiarity, I think it would be a better move.
I'm not saying it couldn't work, but I noticed that at Texas, Shaka had some big early gets like Jarrett Allen & Mo Bamba, but not much team success. However, when he developed roster continuity and had guys established in his system, adding Greg Brown helped a bubble team turn into a 3-seed.
This team seems to be building a culture. As it stands, there are ELEVEN freshmen and sophomores on next year's team. That's a team that will need time to get where we want it to go, and those players will likely develop best by getting meaningful reps early (and probably a redshirt or two). Bringing in someone that would be a gravitational force element on the court could delay those reps and development. I think that's less of an issue with an established role-player with collegiate experience, like a Darryl Morsell.
I'll trust the staff to make the best decisions, but I'm not personally convinced Baldwin would be it for the longer term success of this roster. And I'm also not convinced Shaka will force Hatt or Baldwin to a less-than-full-Assistant role.
Why do they have to drop down? The Associate Head Coach spot is not filled yet as best as I can tell. Hatt and Berry are listed as assistants and Smith as Special Assistant to the Head Coach. And Haynes is still listed at Maryland as being on Turgeon's staff.
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Way, way, WAY too much common sense in here.
Perhaps. That said, when you are Marquette if you can get a top 5 recruit, even for one season, you take it 110% of the time.
Anyone that argues otherwise is just plain overthinking it and coming to an incorrect conclusion.
I don’t even think I need to list the reasons why, they should be self explanatory.
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Brew, wasn’t there a change recently that in order to hire someone with a previous relationship to a recruit, it had to be to one of the 3 assistant spots.
I think that was to deter AAU or parents getting random athletic department jobs. So Baldwin would need to be an assistant.
I believe that's correct. So essentially, it means a Cody Hatt demotion. I think what TAMU said is closest to the truth, but the actual mouthpieces weren't Scoop but rather local HS & AAU coaches.
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First, if this is happening, it means either a current assistant (Cody Hatt?) or Baldwin Sr will be taking a role at lower than an assistant coach level. DBO, Special Assistant, Director of Player Personnel, something like that.
Currently, only Cody Hatt and Neill Berry is listed as a assistant coach in Marquette’s directory. Nevada Smith the other rumored assistant is listed as special assistant to the head coach. He was director of program development and could be taking on a similar role at Marquette. Recruiting isn’t for everyone.
Still doubtful it happens but there would be room for one of Haynes and Baldwin on the staff. Neither are listed in the Marquette directory yet and Haynes is still listed as a Maryland coach.
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Perhaps. That said, when you are Marquette if you can get a top 5 recruit, even for one season, you take it 110% of the time.
Anyone that argues otherwise is just plain overthinking it and coming to an incorrect conclusion.
I don’t even think I need to list the reasons why, they should be self explanatory.
Oh, I think I'd do it because I desperately want to see Marquette back in the Sweet 16 and beyond.
Totally agree on getting a top-5 recruit if you can. Not quite as thrilled if it requires adding a coach to your staff if you otherwise would have no use for him ... but I still think I'd do it.
I'm less concerned about the 1-and-done part of it. With or without Baldwin, we'll be a very young team; but after he leaves, our talented freshmen will be sophomores, and you'd think one or more of them would be ready to step up, accept additional responsibility, and help replace Baldwin.
All of which doesn't mean brew's level-headed, fact-based discussion of the issue wasn't filled with common sense.
I love that we're all speculating wildly on this stuff. It's fun!
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I checked in with one of Milwaukee's (and Wisconsin's) top HS coaches and he hadn't heard anything, and he usually hears something.
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Still doubtful it happens but there would be room for one of Haynes and Baldwin on the staff. Neither are listed in the Marquette directory yet and Haynes is still listed as a Maryland coach.
I'm surprised no one suggested this sooner. While you are correct about the directory and listing, I do not at all believe there is room for Baldwin on the staff. Not without a demotion. And Hatt is most likely based on his career so far.
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Perhaps. That said, when you are Marquette if you can get a top 5 recruit, even for one season, you take it 110% of the time.
Anyone that argues otherwise is just plain overthinking it and coming to an incorrect conclusion.
I don’t even think I need to list the reasons why, they should be self explanatory.
Agreed, there’s so much upside to taking him. Imagine if the kid took us deep in the tournament, was a lottery pick, and 5x all star in the NBA. His one season here could be paying off 10-15 years down the road like it did with Dwade. MU could use a face in the NBA and it’d be even better if he was a hometown kid.
If it doesn’t all play out like above, then yeah it’s better to work on building the program and culture like Brew is saying... but man that is a gamble I think I’d be willing to take.
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I'm surprised no one suggested this sooner. While you are correct about the directory and listing, I do not at all believe there is room for Baldwin on the staff. Not without a demotion. And Hatt is most likely based on his career so far.
Ethics matter. Doing the right thing matters.
So if Shaka already has promised certain positions to the maximum number of coaches he can offer those positions to, he really can't now - days later - say, "Uh, remember that position I promised you? Well sorry, I'm giving it to Patrick Baldwin's dad."
That wouldn't seem right at all.
If he hasn't made such promises, however, I'd probably go for it with the Baldwins.
If that's even a thing more than something for us all to drive ourselves nuts about.
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Feeling pretty confident this will all be put to bed today. Before the weekend is out almost certainly.
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Feeling pretty confident this will all be put to bed today. Before the weekend is out almost certainly.
Will another player be coming along with whatever coaching news is coming?
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Why do they have to drop down? The Associate Head Coach spot is not filled yet as best as I can tell. Hatt and Berry are listed as assistants and Smith as Special Assistant to the Head Coach. And Haynes is still listed at Maryland as being on Turgeon's staff.
Because the associate had coach position is filled, just not announced
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Will another player be coming along with whatever coaching news is coming?
I could see Morsell if it is Haynes. But honestly, I don't know if that would come to fruition right away given that morsell is also going into NBA draft for assessment.
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As TAMU said, the spot is filled:
https://twitter.com/jonrothstein/status/1383068663675187214?s=21
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As TAMU said, the spot is filled:
https://twitter.com/jonrothstein/status/1383068663675187214?s=21
Lol. Scoop delivers. I looked this AM and he was still listed at Maryland. In fact, he still is.
https://umterps.com/sports/mens-basketball/coaches
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https://gomarquette.com/sports/mens-basketball/roster/coaches/deandre-haynes/1675
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There wasn't an ASSOCIATE Coach named, 3 Ass't Coaches and 1 Special Ass't. ! ! ! 8-)
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As TAMU said, the spot is filled:
https://twitter.com/jonrothstein/status/1383068663675187214?s=21
A nice Morsell of information
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I feel like we saw already what happens when you have a team of well regarded but young players, forced to sacrifice to showcase one player. As lovely as Henry's year was with the WI LSU and Prov wins and 20 overall wins, I don't think many would call it a success.
With a very green HC.
That experience has no bearing on how it could go with future one and dones.
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Baldwin Sr. as athletic director? (Sorry Bill.) Strength coach? (Sorry Todd.) University president? (Sorry Michael.)
How 'bout Shaka's consigliere?
There's gotta be something we can give him!!!!
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I think he means the Baldwin package.
Let's keep things out of the gutter, shall we?
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Does Pat Baldwin get fired if PBJ doesn’t commit to UWM. They have no recruits of note and are on their 4th straight losing season in conference. Is this drawn out commitment just a game of chicken with UWM?
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Does Pat Baldwin get fired
Wojo.
Tanned. Rested. Ready.
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Does Pat Baldwin get fired if PBJ doesn’t commit to UWM. They have no recruits of note and are on their 4th straight losing season in conference. Is this drawn out commitment just a game of chicken with UWM?
I wouldn't be surprised if his recruitment was a contract extension dispute.
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Wojo.
Tanned. Rested. Ready.
Wealthy.
Doesn't need UWM or some other shytehole outpost.
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Wealthy.
Doesn't need UWM or some other shytehole outpost.
Based on his stewardship of the program in his 7 years, some might say he prefers that type of outpost