NFC North/NFL Thread 2016-17

[MUBurrow]

As a fan, I like the Cutler move. I also like Matt Moore, but the team doesn't gain anything with a full season of Matt Moore. We know what he is, and that with this team (largely the same as the one he helmed at the end of last season) he'll win 6-8 games, resulting in a middling draft pick and a season that you might as well hit fast forward on. The only way I think riding with Moore would be the right call is if Brady shows up tomorrow with a blown out leg, and the division would suddenly be up for grabs.

I'm not deluding myself into thinking that Cutler still has all this pent up potential at 34. But in the end, he can make throws Matt Moore can't make, and that's not nothing. It gives the team a higher ceiling, which with a roster with a lot of good, young talent, is far more important than bringing the floor up a win or two. Tannehill wasn't some great leader of men, either, and combined with Cutler's experience with Gase, I don't think the personality stuff (such that it may or may not even really exist in the first place) will be an issue. Contract disappears off the books after this year, and if it ends up blowing up one way or another and they get a higher pick in a jacked QB class next year, so be it. Maybe they decide to move on from Tannehill depending on how he heals, or maybe they have a great opportunity to trade down.

[MU82]

As a fan, I like the Cutler move. I also like Matt Moore, but the team doesn't gain anything with a full season of Matt Moore. We know what he is, and that with this team (largely the same as the one he helmed at the end of last season) he'll win 6-8 games, resulting in a middling draft pick and a season that you might as well hit fast forward on. The only way I think riding with Moore would be the right call is if Brady shows up tomorrow with a blown out leg, and the division would suddenly be up for grabs.

I'm not deluding myself into thinking that Cutler still has all this pent up potential at 34. But in the end, he can make throws Matt Moore can't make, and that's not nothing. It gives the team a higher ceiling, which with a roster with a lot of good, young talent, is far more important than bringing the floor up a win or two. Tannehill wasn't some great leader of men, either, and combined with Cutler's experience with Gase, I don't think the personality stuff (such that it may or may not even really exist in the first place) will be an issue. Contract disappears off the books after this year, and if it ends up blowing up one way or another and they get a higher pick in a jacked QB class next year, so be it. Maybe they decide to move on from Tannehill depending on how he heals, or maybe they have a great opportunity to trade down.

This is a very healthy attitude. If I were still a Dolphins fan, I'd be on board with all of this, too. The "high ceiling" part is definitely true. Of course, folks have been saying that about Cutler for 11 years. It's a big "we'll see," but it's certainly a relatively low risk to take for a potentially decent reward.

[RJax55]

This is a very healthy attitude. If I were still a Dolphins fan, I'd be on board with all of this, too. The "high ceiling" part is definitely true. Of course, folks have been saying that about Cutler for 11 years. It's a big "we'll see," but it's certainly a relatively low risk to take for a potentially decent reward.

The "high ceiling" narrative/potential is over for Jay. He's an old vet. He's not going to become a top-10 starter in Miami.

That said, with Gase at the helm, he's a better option than Moore and perhaps even Tannehill. Hard to see the downside here for the Dolphins.

[cheebs09]

It's tough to have an objective conversation on Cutler in Packer country because he played so much worse against the Packers than anyone else. He threw 16 TDs vs 22 INTs against Green Bay. Against everyone else, he was 192/124. That's not great, but still pretty good.

 He's not going to go to Canton, but there are way worse options. For some reason, Capers has him figured out.

[wadesworld]

Are teams not signing Kaepernik for fear that when their team goes on the road the home team will play the National Anthem every time their team is on the field and Kaep will just take a knee?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Are teams not signing Kaepernik for fear that when their team goes on the road the home team will play the National Anthem every time their team is on the field and Kaep will just take a knee?

Meh,  that was funny about a year ago

[wadesworld]

Meh,  that was funny about a year ago

He had a job a year ago.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

He had a job a year ago.

And people were making jokes about playing the national anthem during the game so he would kneel a year ago too. They even made jokes specifically about him not having the starting job because of it.

[MU82]

The "high ceiling" narrative/potential is over for Jay. He's an old vet. He's not going to become a top-10 starter in Miami.

After a long, disappointing run with the always-crappy (back then) Patriots and then two terrible years in San Fran, Jim Plunkett went to Oakland as a washed-up old vet, and won two Super Bowls.

Doug Williams flamed out with the Bucs (despite having decent talent around him some of those years), went to Washington as a washed-up old vet, and won a Super Bowl.

Craig Morton landed in Denver as a washed-up old vet in 1977 and immediately led the Broncos to the Super Bowl.

Earl Morrall went to Miami as an ancient vet, replaced an injured Bob Griese and led the '72 Dolphins to an undefeated record.

Brett Favre sucked in his one year with the Jets, went to Minnesota and led the Vikings to a 13-3 record at age 40.

Shall I go on?

Obviously, me being the opposite of a "Cutler guy," I'm not saying anything like any of those scenarios will happen. But stranger things have happened. Cutler is at least as talented as Plunkett, Williams, Morton and Morrall were. He might not be as mentally tough as they were, though.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I think Favre played well for the Jets until he hurt his arm.  The last 3-4 games, he played like someone with an injured throwing arm.  Which is pretty bad.

[copious1218]

I think Favre played well for the Jets until he hurt his arm.  The last 3-4 games, he played like someone with an injured throwing arm.  Which is pretty bad.

As a Jets fan (hard to admit right now) I'd have to agree.  8-3 before he tore his biceps tendon, 1-4 after.  20 TDs and 13 Ints in first 11 games.  2 TDs and 9 Ints in final 5 games.  70% completion percentage first 11 games. 56% in last 5 games.  Definitely the injury. 

Not to take away from MU82s original point. 

[MUBurrow]

The "high ceiling" narrative/potential is over for Jay. He's an old vet. He's not going to become a top-10 starter in Miami.

That said, with Gase at the helm, he's a better option than Moore and perhaps even Tannehill. Hard to see the downside here for the Dolphins.

Yep. I know its not a perfect statistical analysis, but an average QBR over the 2016 season was about 60 (would rank 17th overall, between Carr and Bradford).  Taking out the AZ game where he got hurt, Tannehill had a 60 or better QBR five times, and the Dolphins went 4-1 in those games, scoring 24, 30, 28, 31 and 31. In MIA's five losses with Tannehill, he had an average QBR of 27.8, and the Dolphins scored 24, 7, 17 and 6. Tannehill's total QBR was 24th out of 30 qualifiers. I know QBR isn't perfect by any means, but if its even mildly representative, the Dolphins just need Cutler to be average to stay in the hunt... maybe I'm talking myself into Moore after all?

[MUBurrow]

As a Jets fan (hard to admit right now) I'd have to agree.  8-3 before he tore his biceps tendon, 1-4 after.  20 TDs and 13 Ints in first 11 games.  2 TDs and 9 Ints in final 5 games.  70% completion percentage first 11 games. 56% in last 5 games.  Definitely the injury. 

Not to take away from MU82s original point.

One of my best moments as a Dolphins fan: Just for the heck of it, I went to the Week 17 Packers game that year, and wore my Jay Fiedler jersey under my winter gear. (Pennington was the QB that year, but my Jay Fiedler jersey is always relevant).  Packers played at noon, and Jets-Dolphins for the division was at 3:15.  Went to the bars in GB after the game, and for the first and last time in my life, my money was no good. Must have been the most popular guy in the place, and the joint went bonkers for Favre's pick-6 in the 2nd qtr and game sealing pick in the 4th.

[Silkk the Shaka]

After a long, disappointing run with the always-crappy (back then) Patriots and then two terrible years in San Fran, Jim Plunkett went to Oakland as a washed-up old vet, and won two Super Bowls.

Doug Williams flamed out with the Bucs (despite having decent talent around him some of those years), went to Washington as a washed-up old vet, and won a Super Bowl.

Craig Morton landed in Denver as a washed-up old vet in 1977 and immediately led the Broncos to the Super Bowl.

Earl Morrall went to Miami as an ancient vet, replaced an injured Bob Griese and led the '72 Dolphins to an undefeated record.

Brett Favre sucked in his one year with the Jets, went to Minnesota and led the Vikings to a 13-3 record at age 40.

Shall I go on?

Obviously, me being the opposite of a "Cutler guy," I'm not saying anything like any of those scenarios will happen. But stranger things have happened. Cutler is at least as talented as Plunkett, Williams, Morton and Morrall were. He might not be as mentally tough as they were, though.

These are all examples from 20+ years ago when an amazing running game & defense could get you a SB as long as your QB just managed the game

[Pakuni]

These are all examples from 20+ years ago when an amazing running game & defense could get you a SB as long as your QB just managed the game

Like the Broncos way back in 2016? Or maybe Seattle in 2014?

[wadesworld]

One of my best moments as a Dolphins fan: Just for the heck of it, I went to the Week 17 Packers game that year, and wore my Jay Fiedler jersey under my winter gear. (Pennington was the QB that year, but my Jay Fiedler jersey is always relevant).  Packers played at noon, and Jets-Dolphins for the division was at 3:15.  Went to the bars in GB after the game, and for the first and last time in my life, my money was no good. Must have been the most popular guy in the place, and the joint went bonkers for Favre's pick-6 in the 2nd qtr and game sealing pick in the 4th.

That's awesome.

[rocket surgeon]

  well, if this is true, what's up? looks like spike lee may have to re-think his plans to protest in miami.

  http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/07/nfl-source-kaepernick-turned-down-at-least-1-contract-to-play-up-the-race-card/

   if he signs for the league minimum, his game(politics) and the media's is over

also, why isn't san francisco being called out?  if kaep isn't good enough for one of the worst teams in the league, how the heck can one expect anyone above them even consider paying him starter money?  why?  he ain't worth starter money. 

who uses their girlfriend as their agent?  this must be one talented woman   she has convinced him to go "radical".  either she is trying to live vicariously thru him, or, well, i'll leave the rest up to you guys. personally, i think he's thinkin with the wrong head or he needs to play the victim card. 

[GGGG]

  well, if this is true, what's up? looks like spike lee may have to re-think his plans to protest in miami.

  http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/07/nfl-source-kaepernick-turned-down-at-least-1-contract-to-play-up-the-race-card/

   if he signs for the league minimum, his game(politics) and the media's is over

also, why isn't san francisco being called out?  if kaep isn't good enough for one of the worst teams in the league, how the heck can one expect anyone above them even consider paying him starter money?  why?  he ain't worth starter money. 

who uses their girlfriend as their agent?  this must be one talented woman   she has convinced him to go "radical".  either she is trying to live vicariously thru him, or, well, i'll leave the rest up to you guys. personally, i think he's thinkin with the wrong head or he needs to play the victim card. 

When you find a real news source for that story, please link to it. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

If I had led a team to the super bowl in the last 5 years and put up the numbers he did last season I wouldn't settle for the league minimum either.

[rocket surgeon]

When you find a real news source for that story, please link to it.

  it's as reputable to many as the huffington post is to your people, but pardon me for not checking with TMZ first

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

  it's as reputable to many as the huffington post is to your people, but pardon me for not checking with TMZ first

*Yawn*

[GGGG]

  it's as reputable to many as the huffington post is to your people, but pardon me for not checking with TMZ first

When you see me link to either of those sources, feel free to say something. Just to let you know, you will be waiting a LONG time.

[wadesworld]

If I had led a team to the super bowl in the last 5 years and put up the numbers he did last season I wouldn't settle for the league minimum either.

Then he/you/whoever is too good for a couple million dollars a year can sit at home unemployed and have rallies claiming you're being discriminated against.

[Lennys Tap]

If I had led a team to the super bowl in the last 5 years and put up the numbers he did last season I wouldn't settle for the league minimum either.

I agree. $900,000 for 6 months work (quite possibly holding a clipboard) is nothing short of insulting. His plan B (being a brain surgeon) will mean a pay cut, but at least he'll have his dignity.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Then he/you/whoever is too good for a couple million dollars a year can sit at home unemployed and have rallies claiming you're being discriminated against.

Its a choice. I don't think someone turning down an offer they think is too low especially in the process is a bad thing. I didn't jump on my first job offer after grad school because I thought it was too low. I stayed unemployed for a little while longer and eventually another offer came for significantly more money. It was the right decision. One season ending injury to a starter and Kaepernick is likely to get a better offer.