NFC North/NFL Thread 2016-17

[dgies9156]

Well, the Dolphins just got a lot more interesting.

I like this paragraph in the NFL.com article about the signing:

While Tannehill has yet to make a decision regarding surgery on his injured knee, the desperate attempt for Cutler's services could provide some context. The Dolphins are a team that made the playoffs with a combination of Tannehill and Matt Moore under center a year ago and believe the roster is good enough to win now.

Yeah, because why not expect a guy who won 1 playoff game in 11 years to be the missing link to a championship?

In fairness, some guys just need a change of scenery. Maybe Cutler will excel in Miami. Of course, the change-of-scenery thing also is what they said about Cutler going from Denver, where he put on a choke-a-thon, to Chicago.

As an aside, I was a huge Dolphins fan as a kid. During my formative years, they were the best team in football, and I wanted to root for a winner. So I loved me my Csonka and Griese and Warfield and Buoniconti and Fernandez and Scott and Garo and Mercury, etc. I stuck with 'em for many years and very much enjoyed watching Marino play. But after they forced out Shula, I lost interest. It won't bother me at all if Cutler fails there. And it won't excite me if he succeeds. Ever since I moved to NC, I've become a major Panthers fan - and that was saying something, because my first year here Jimmy Clausen "led" my boys to a 2-14 record!

I've probably seen Cutler play just about as much as anyone outside the Bears organization. I've been a Bears season ticket holder for 22 years and go to almost every game.

Cutler will do well in Miami as long as he stays within himself. The biggest problem Cutler had in Chicago was weak offensive lines and a tendency to try to do things beyond his skill set. Cutler would see windows open ever so briefly and, like Brett Favre, try to jam a football through them. Sometimes it worked but lots of times it did not. From up top, you can see the lanes open and the peeks the QB has (I'm at the 45 yard line in Section 438) and you almost grimaced at times when you saw Cutler wind up.

The one thing that may make this work was that Adam Gase knew Cutler. The best Cutler looked (which admittedly was with a bad team) was when Gase was the offensive coordinator.

Those of you who think Kapernick was blackballed, please keep in mind that Cutler and Gas know each other. Cutler probably is the most equipped veteran quarterback to step into the void at Miami and make it work. If anyone can, Cutler can. And, I would note, those of you who think the season was lost and Miami should have passed don't know the NFL and don't know the NFL fan. They'd probably burn whatever they call Joe Robbie Stadium to the ground if the Dolphins didn't try to do something.

[Pakuni]

Fair enough. I guess the NFL doesn't care about the hundreds of others who followed suit and kneeled for the National Anthem, just Kaepernik.

The guy isn't good at football. If he were he'd be paid to play it. If Rodgers or Russell Wilson or Cam Newton or any other good quarterback had been the one kneeling for the National Anthem and Kaepernik had respectfully stood with his hand over his heart I'm highly skeptical that Kaepernik would have a job and one of those 3 would be looking for one. But maybe.

Go read my earlier post giving stats from five unnamed QBs over their last 10 starts. One is Kaepernik. The others are four unquestioned starters of playoff caliber teams. Without looking it up, tell us who is who.

Regardless, your repeated statement that Kap has been bad the past two seasons is objectively, provably false.

[MU82]

One is a Boy Scout and the other is the Devil, but there are similarities between Tebow and Kaepernick as far as not being able to get a job in the NFL.

Tebow certainly is not good enough to start in the league, but he probably could be a 2nd-stringer and definitely could be a third-stringer. But it would be rough on the coach, GM and owner for whatever team he'd be on. The starting QB has one bad game, and everybody wants to know when Tebow's gonna play - even though the coach knows Tebow isn't a very good QB - and his teammates know it, too. It's just not worth the trouble, and I honestly think that's why Tebow isn't at least a clipboard-holder in the NFL right now instead of a Class A baseball player.

Kaepernick is significantly more talented than Tebow. He's led a team to the Super Bowl, and his stats even during recent years haven't been all that bad. Has he been "blackballed"? Maybe. As others have said, the NFL has colluded before. But he doesn't have to have been blackballed to not be in the league for the same reason Tebow isn't in the league. Undoubtedly, owners, who have all kinds of public-relations situations (and maybe some coaches), just don't feel he is worth the trouble. Who wants constant scrutiny because of the behavior of a guy who isn't even a starter?

Of course Rodgers and Brady could have knelt during the anthem and they'd still have jobs. So would another top dozen QBs. But how about the 16 worst NFL starters? How about any of the backups? Would Matt Moore have been the Dolphins' backup and would Derek Anderson still be backing up Cam if they had done what Kaepernick did? We'll never know, but I'm not so sure. And I don't know how others can claim to be so sure, either.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Its a mix of politics and skill. Kaep isn't good enough to be immune to the (fair or not) consequences of his political action. He's good enough to be a second stringer for sure and arguably good enough to be one of the worst starters in the NFL. If he was better, he would be playing despite the politics. But if he didn't have the politics he would be playing (or at least signed) without having to be better. Joe Montana said that very thing a month or two ago and talked about how coaches don't like "distractions" in the locker room (Unless of course that distraction is a player who beats up their wife, strikes their child, commits multiple sexual assaults, or participates in dog fights).

[GGGG]

Fair enough. I guess the NFL doesn't care about the hundreds of others who followed suit and kneeled for the National Anthem, just Kaepernik.

The guy isn't good at football. If he were he'd be paid to play it. If Rodgers or Russell Wilson or Cam Newton or any other good quarterback had been the one kneeling for the National Anthem and Kaepernik had respectfully stood with his hand over his heart I'm highly skeptical that Kaepernik would have a job and one of those 3 would be looking for one. But maybe.

I never claimed it was absolute.  Of course Rodgers would have a job if he kneeled for the anthem.  But Kaepernick would have one if he hadn't.

[GGGG]

Jay is fired up.

[JWags85]

Jay is fired up.

"The good thing is I play QB, so I don't have to be in that great of cardiovascular shape". 

People immediately got up in arms calling him a heartless bum. Unfortunately Cutler's dry sense of humor will never play with stuffy sports media.  Heaven forbid he say something other than a cliche about grabbing his lunch pail and coming into work trying to be better every day.

[wadesworld]

"The good thing is I play QB, so I don't have to be in that great of cardiovascular shape". 

People immediately got up in arms calling him a heartless bum. Unfortunately Cutler's dry sense of humor will never play with stuffy sports media.  Heaven forbid he say something other than a cliche about grabbing his lunch pail and coming into work trying to be better every day.

Win games, for once in his career, and people won't give a dang what he says or whether he kneels for the National Anthem.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

One is a Boy Scout and the other is the Devil, but there are similarities between Tebow and Kaepernick as far as not being able to get a job in the NFL.

So you think Kaepernick is a Boy Scout, huh?

[MU82]

Win games, for once in his career, and people won't give a dang what he says or whether he kneels for the National Anthem.

This.

[JWags85]

This.

Like when the Bears were 11-5 in his second season as a starter and they won the division and they still leapt all over him immediately?  Or when they were 7-3 the next year before he got hurt and the team imploded without him?  Its revisionist history.  I'm not trying to argue Cutler's numbers or value as a QB.  Thats been beaten to death enough for 3-4 lifetimes. I'm calling out the inanity of sports media.  You shouldn't have to have a SB ring or be an All-Pro to have freedom from being a joyless, wooden robot.

[Lennys Tap]

Its a mix of politics and skill. Kaep isn't good enough to be immune to the (fair or not) consequences of his political action. He's good enough to be a second stringer for sure and arguably good enough to be one of the worst starters in the NFL. If he was better, he would be playing despite the politics. But if he didn't have the politics he would be playing (or at least signed) without having to be better. Joe Montana said that very thing a month or two ago and talked about how coaches don't like "distractions" in the locker room (Unless of course that distraction is a player who beats up their wife, strikes their child, commits multiple sexual assaults, or participates in dog fights).

Agree. Stars can be big time distractions. Sometimes their reputations are even enhanced by it (remember Broadway Joe?). From superstar to journeyman it's a sliding scale, and you're right that the biggest fans of the violence that is the NFL are much more comfortable with violent players off the field than they are with players who take unpopular (and to some, ungrateful) political positions.

Of course this is true in "real life" too. Geniuses in academia, big producers in business, "stars" in Hollywood get away with stuff that would ruin or at the very least hinder the careers of marginal talents. Life in the big city.

[brewcity77]

Miami HC Adam Gase is the total explanation here. In his system, Cutler threw for 3600 yards, 21 TDs, and 11 picks in 2015. Gase knows how to get the most out of him and doesn't have to change anything.

That's not the case for Kaepernick. It would change everything and there's no built in familiarity. It's not racism, it's comfort.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

For Kaep, I don't think the argument is against Cutler. I totally agree with Miami because of the Gase factor.

However, in a league where Brock Osweiler and Trevor Siemien are starting QBs there is 100% a spot available for Colin Kaepernick. And I'm a big Trevor Siemien fan.

[wadesworld]

Like when the Bears were 11-5 in his second season as a starter and they won the division and they still leapt all over him immediately?  Or when they were 7-3 the next year before he got hurt and the team imploded without him?  Its revisionist history.  I'm not trying to argue Cutler's numbers or value as a QB.  Thats been beaten to death enough for 3-4 lifetimes. I'm calling out the inanity of sports media.  You shouldn't have to have a SB ring or be an All-Pro to have freedom from being a joyless, wooden robot.

The guy is going into his 12th season. In his first 11 seasons he has a total of 3 seasons where he had a winning record as a starter. He's won a total of 1 Playoff game as a starter. It's not revisionist history at all. The guy is a loser.

[🏀]

"The good thing is I play QB, so I don't have to be in that great of cardiovascular shape". 

People immediately got up in arms calling him a heartless bum. Unfortunately Cutler's dry sense of humor will never play with stuffy sports media.  Heaven forbid he say something other than a cliche about grabbing his lunch pail and coming into work trying to be better every day.

I wish Cutler would take up Manning speak for his last tour, with just heavy sarcasm. It would be perfect.

The mouth breathing NFL media wouldn't know how to react.

[GB Warrior]

I really enjoy Jay Cutler's irreverence towards the media. If only he vaccinated his children.

[jesmu84]

For Kaep, I don't think the argument is against Cutler. I totally agree with amiami because of the Gase factor.

However, in a league where Brock Osweiler and Trevor Siemien are starting QBs there is 100% a spot available for Colin Kaepernick. And I'm a big Trevor Siemien fan.

Correct.

Now explain the situation in Baltimore where the coach and GM said yes.

[MU82]

Correct.

Now explain the situation in Baltimore where the coach and GM said yes.

Ding ding ding. Harbaugh all but said, "I want him on my team." The owner cares about image. And I guess he has that right.

[rocket surgeon]

So you think Kaepernick is a Boy Scout, huh?

i heard a great analogy today from someone-what if kaep wore socks that said depicted women as pigs or a shirt that dissed transgenders or wore an anti-immigrant hat...i'll just sit back and watch the heads explode as teams are fighting to sign him

[brewcity77]

For Kaep, I don't think the argument is against Cutler. I totally agree with amiami because of the Gase factor.

However, in a league where Brock Osweiler and Trevor Siemien are starting QBs there is 100% a spot available for Colin Kaepernick. And I'm a big Trevor Siemien fan.

Agreed completely, though I've seen plenty of "Jay sucks, proof that Kaep is getting screwed" posts on Twitter and FB today. Kaep is getting screwed. The Rams giving Dan Orlovsky a look is proof of that. But Cutler isn't emblematic of that.

[mu03eng]

Ding ding ding. Harbaugh all but said, "I want him on my team." The owner cares about image. And I guess he has that right.

Which is ironic given the owners extreme reluctance to cut Ray Rice

[rocket surgeon]

Which is ironic given the owners extreme reluctance to cut Ray Rice

would you want to be the one to hand him the pink slip? 

[GGGG]

Yeah but at least he didn't kneel for the anthem...

http://deadspin.com/bo-pelini-defends-decision-to-let-steubenville-rapist-m-1797617229

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

i heard a great analogy today from someone-what if kaep wore socks that said depicted women as pigs or a shirt that dissed transgenders or wore an anti-immigrant hat...i'll just sit back and watch the heads explode as teams are fighting to sign him

Not the same thing. Women and transgendered individuals are minorities, police are not. Also, someone's gender is typically more central to their identity than their occupation.

Still, it was extremely rude, disrespectful, and I have no problem with people thinking that Kaep is an arse because of it.

In respect of those that believe that "football should be an escape for this type of stuff" this will be my only comment on this topic.