For those of you who think MU has looked good so far...

[GGGG]

...I have the Sagarin ratings from the USA Today in front of me.

Out of 347 teams, MUES is 346 and Centennary is 281.

And it won't get any better because Grambling is 344.

[Fullodds]

After losing 4 starters it is reasonable to start the season with super soft competition. Next week will show us more.

[Henry Sugar]

Pomeroy has Centenary at 205 and UMES at 233.  (Grambling at 272).

We beat them by an efficiency margin of 31 and 39, respectively.  (114 vs 83 and 130 vs 90)

In comparison, our first two opponents last year were Houston Baptist (324) and Chicago State (250).  We beat those opponents by an efficiency margin of 40 and 23, respectively.

For the record, I don't think the team has looked particularly good, but the numbers aren't bad so far.  An efficiency margin of 30+ is great.

[Pakuni]

Given all the turnover this program has seen the past couple years, it's good to see that some things never change: some will always complain about the out-of-conference schedule and some will always fret when MU doens't beat every cupcake 92-41.

[mu_hilltopper]

Someone refresh my memory .. did anyone complain about the OOC schedule this year?  Seriously, I can't recall any negative comments.   I recall something negative about the UWM game, re-litigating the contract signed 2 years ago, but that was about it.  It is what it is.

And did anyone "fret" about not beating our two first opponents by a wide enough margin?   Again, I didn't read that.   This thread?  It's about not reading too much into beating cupcakes, not about fret re: margins.

[Skatastrophy]

Oakland, UW@Madison's last opponent, is in the same conference as Centenary and according to Pomeroy is ranked 201 to Centenary's 205.  UW@Madison "ravaged" Oakland by a score of 58-42.  That slow-down offense makes for some scintillating games against vastly inferior opponents!

[rocky_warrior]

...I have the Sagarin ratings from the USA Today in front of me.

Out of 347 teams, MUES is 346 and Centennary is 281.

And it won't get any better because Grambling is 344.

Since you like Sagarin's ratings so much, you'll be happy to hear that after 2 games Marquette is #26

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/bkt0910.htm

Hundreds of teams have played hundreds of cupcakes.  Apparently our stats were good enough to get us in the top 30.  

We may not be a top 30 team, only time will tell, but I don't think you should discount the margin we won by.  I saw the 3 amigos struggle against cupcakes that were nearly as inferior.

I should add...pomeroy's ratings (which I trust much more - but they're all a crapshoot this early) has our first 2 opponents rated much higher (205 & 233) and Marquette rated much lower (67).  Those numbers look more realistic to me - at this point in the season.

http://kenpom.com/team.php?team=Marquette

[Pakuni]

Someone refresh my memory .. did anyone complain about the OOC schedule this year?  Seriously, I can't recall any negative comments.   I recall something negative about the UWM game, re-litigating the contract signed 2 years ago, but that was about it.  It is what it is.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=15115.0

And did anyone "fret" about not beating our two first opponents by a wide enough margin?   Again, I didn't read that.   This thread?  It's about not reading too much into beating cupcakes, not about fret re: margins.

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=16095.0

My point re: the score was not specifically to MU's margin of victory, but how "impressively" they did it.

[mu_hilltopper]

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=15115.0


http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=16095.0

My point re: the score was not specifically to MU's margin of victory, but how "impressively" they did it.

Well, that thread indeed discusses the schedule, but in if read, it's a galaxy from the complaints of yesteryear.   People didn't appreciate releasing the schedule game by game, but that's not about the the teams we play.

Bamamarquette and CChip had perhaps the most visible complaint, using RPI math.  A far cry from the usual "playing so many bottom dwellers sucks" argument.    -- Jesus .. even PRN said "With NC State, St. Bonnies and a local interest game like UWM on the schedule, I'm not complaining."

General comments were:  I'm not complaining, You have to pad the win totals, Need a road game or "I'll start worrying a bit" .. it is what it is .. our (ooc) opponents are weak (duh) but I am getting psyched up.

So, I stand by my statement, although "no one" may be off by a couple depending on how you count.   While it's impossible to make everyone happy all of the time, we're far far closer to that than we once were.   The negativity trend over the last 2-3 schedules is certainly far down. 

Honestly, the reason I think people have nearly stopped is twofold .. fatigue/dead horse beating to an extent, but also .. information.  We've discussed it a ton, and the economic picture is far more understood now than in years past (by more people) including myself.  (And that the schedules have been more interesting, with teams like NC State and UWM (yes, really.))


--
As for the other thread, I can't find commentary that we should have beaten those two teams by a larger margin, which was your point: "some will always fret when MU doesn't beat every cupcake 92-41."

  The thread was started with a preposterous idea that today's team would give last year's team "trouble" and was met with derision because, as the rankings confirm, these last two opponents are indeed very weak, and beating them doesn't mean anything beyond two easy W's and our first looks.   I can't find anyone who suggested we should have beaten them by more. 

Feel free to keep searching, though.  I could be wrong.   One guy could have said that somewhere, but until it's found ...

[only a warrior]

http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=15115.0


http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=16095.0

My point re: the score was not specifically to MU's margin of victory, but how "impressively" they did it.

Wow, nothing better to do than look up old threads??? Petty....

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Well, that thread indeed discusses the schedule, but in if read, it's a galaxy from the complaints of yesteryear.   People didn't appreciate releasing the schedule game by game, but that's not about the the teams we play.

Bamamarquette and CChip had perhaps the most visible complaint, using RPI math.  A far cry from the usual "playing so many bottom dwellers sucks" argument.    -- Jesus .. even PRN said "With NC State, St. Bonnies and a local interest game like UWM on the schedule, I'm not complaining."

General comments were:  I'm not complaining, You have to pad the win totals, Need a road game or "I'll start worrying a bit" .. it is what it is .. our (ooc) opponents are weak (duh) but I am getting psyched up.

So, I stand by my statement, although "no one" may be off by a couple depending on how you count.   While it's impossible to make everyone happy all of the time, we're far far closer to that than we once were.   The negativity trend over the last 2-3 schedules is certainly far down. 

Honestly, the reason I think people have nearly stopped is twofold .. fatigue/dead horse beating to an extent, but also .. information.  We've discussed it a ton, and the economic picture is far more understood now than in years past (by more people) including myself.  (And that the schedules have been more interesting, with teams like NC State and UWM (yes, really.))


--
As for the other thread, I can't find commentary that we should have beaten those two teams by a larger margin, which was your point: "some will always fret when MU doesn't beat every cupcake 92-41."

  The thread was started with a preposterous idea that today's team would give last year's team "trouble" and was met with derision because, as the rankings confirm, these last two opponents are indeed very weak, and beating them doesn't mean anything beyond two easy W's and our first looks.   I can't find anyone who suggested we should have beaten them by more. 

Feel free to keep searching, though.  I could be wrong.   One guy could have said that somewhere, but until it's found ...

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I have to say this.

The head coach makes a difference.

People "like" buzz, so the schedule isn't a hot button issue for some folks. They are willing to give Buzz and MU the benefit of the doubt.

The previous coach had some ill will built up, and therefore people looked for places to blast him. The schedule was an easy target, as well as the lack of big men, which also doesn't seem to be a hot issue for everybody now that Buzz is here.

Certainly there is still interest in the schedule, and interest in recruiting a big man, but not the hot fire that we've seen/read in the past.

[4everwarriors]

Illwill? Never heard of it. If illwill = prick, well then we're talkin' major jockstraps full.

[MU B2002]

Illwill? Never heard of it. If illwill = prick, well then we're talkin' major jockstraps full.

Might want to revise your quote, as it sounds like you are complimenting the man.

 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Illwill? Never heard of it. If illwill = prick, well then we're talkin' major jockstraps full.

Call it what you will, but those feelings led more scrutiny over every move he made.

I'm not going to debate if he deserved it, I'm just saying it happened.

The expectations and scrutiny of Buzz are probably more realistic right now, but will probably increase over the years.

[mu_hilltopper]

I don't want to hijack this thread, but I have to say this.

The head coach makes a difference.

People "like" buzz, so the schedule isn't a hot button issue for some folks. They are willing to give Buzz and MU the benefit of the doubt.

The previous coach had some ill will built up, and therefore people looked for places to blast him. The schedule was an easy target, as well as the lack of big men, which also doesn't seem to be a hot issue for everybody now that Buzz is here.

That's somewhat true. .. But the anti-Crean population exploded after he left, though.  There were plenty of people who loved Crean while he was here, just like Buzz has his fans.  -- Actually, when I think more about it .. I would suggest that right now, today, Buzz's fan club is not as big as Crean's fan club was, even say, a month before he left.  People are still getting to know Buzz.  Not internet forum dwellers, but the other 80% of the Bradley Center.

I'd add that .. Those Crean years .. built up the program's ego.  They really did.  Top 10-25 teams .. Final Four .. NCAAs.  National recognition, etc, etc.

But these last 3 years .. I think that ego has been deflated due to poor March performance -- and, not to mention that we hired Buzz and not a "big name" coach.  Suddenly, we're just Marquette, that plucky midwestern team that's done well for itself, but can't make it to the S16 without Robert Jackson on the roster.  

While unscientific, I'd guess that the complaints about our schedule were lower (not low, just lower) in the 90s, rising to 2005-6-7, then started to decrease.    -- Just a theory.  Feel free to poke holes.  The MU forums weren't huge in the mid-90s, so it's hard to tell.

[Pakuni]

Wow, nothing better to do than look up old threads??? Petty....

Yep ... way more petty than joining a discussion for the sole purpose of calling someone petty.
That said, perhaps you could inform me of a less petty means discove whether there had been gripes this year about the OOC schedule.
Thank you.

[RawdogDX]

That's somewhat true. .. But the anti-Crean population exploded after he left, though.  There were plenty of people who loved Crean while he was here, just like Buzz has his fans.  -- Actually, when I think more about it .. I would suggest that right now, today, Buzz's fan club is not as big as Crean's fan club was, even say, a month before he left.  People are still getting to know Buzz.  

Yes but fan clubs weren't the ones who did the complaining about the schedule every year.  The biggest complainers were the TC Hate club.  Who would have complained if the a few of those cupcakes were dropped about how TC was taking too many risks and not securing enough sure wins in the early part of the year.
There is no buzz hate club thus no one complaining about the schedule.  Your other two things have something to do with it, but the biggest factor is no TC.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Yes but fan clubs weren't the ones who did the complaining about the schedule every year.  The biggest complainers were the TC Hate club.  Who would have complained if the a few of those cupcakes were dropped about how TC was taking too many risks and not securing enough sure wins in the early part of the year.
There is no buzz hate club thus no one complaining about the schedule.  Your other two things have something to do with it, but the biggest factor is no TC.

This.

[Freeport Warrior]

There is no buzz hate club thus no one complaining about the schedule.

I think there was always an underground Crean Hate Club that grew as the years went on, mainly because he was such a d!ck to so many people, BUT no one said much because he put us "back in the conversation" of college bball. He was winning, so like the cocky, jock a-hole in high school, most of the sheeple silently drank the kool-aid and enjoyed the fruits.  From all I hear who come in contact with Buzz, he is a stand-up guy, and I'm not just talking fans and alumni. Media people and business associates from Texas that I know all praise him for his humility, hard work and ability to connect with people like a normal "joe." Time will tell if his coaching will match his recruiting, but from a personal standpoint, I don't see the emergence of a Buzz Hate Club any time soon.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I don't see the emergence of a Buzz Hate Club any time soon.

Jerel McNeal was a great guy (at least when I met him), graduated, is well spoken in the media, and is MU's all time leader scorer.

What's the point?

There are posters here who really disliked him last season.

"hate clubs" always develop... faster for some people, but they eventually form for everybody... even Buzz.

[RawdogDX]

I think there was always an underground Crean Hate Club that grew as the years went on, mainly because he was such a d!ck to so many people, BUT no one said much because he put us "back in the conversation" of college bball. He was winning, so like the cocky, jock a-hole in high school, most of the sheeple silently drank the kool-aid and enjoyed the fruits.  From all I hear who come in contact with Buzz, he is a stand-up guy, and I'm not just talking fans and alumni. Media people and business associates from Texas that I know all praise him for his humility, hard work and ability to connect with people like a normal "joe." Time will tell if his coaching will match his recruiting, but from a personal standpoint, I don't see the emergence of a Buzz Hate Club any time soon.

I also don't see the buzz hate club anytime soon either, but it will, this is the internet and people are batcrap crazy.  Not sure if you are new here but there was nothing underground about the crean hate club.  Plenty of people screamed about how he was a dick for doing things like having a press conference after giving 100k to the soccer team.

[tower912]

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=193&f=2565&t=5150387

It is expected that the Buzz-haters would already exist over on the BADger board, but according to this AbrahamFroman guys (known as an impeccable source from the jsonline board   ) there are already Buzz-haters among the MU fans.  

[mu_hilltopper]

Buzz is still in the honeymoon period .. and he keeps extending it with high quality recruiting.  No "hate-club" will surface unless we fall flat in 2010-11. 

--

That badger forum link .. with "Abe" saying he knows people who think Buzz is two-faced already .. truth is, who knows.   Crean hid his "bad side" from the public extremely well. -- I'm not saying Buzz has one, just saying Crean hid his from most for a long time.

(Yes, yes, there were people who thought he was a phony for years.  Good for you.)

[Freeport Warrior]

Jerel McNeal was a great guy (at least when I met him), graduated, is well spoken in the media, and is MU's all time leader scorer.

What's the point?

The point is that Crean was a d!ck and it made it easy to hate him. Buzz (and Jerel) might garner Hate Club status, but most likely for poor coaching or playing (Jerel), not for being total jackasses.

Rawdog -- I think there were plenty of Crean haters (many on this board) from the beginning, but I think there was a huge underground of fans/alumni who normally wouldn't speak up or talk badly about Crean (or anyone really). When he "It's Indiana-ed" us, I think a ton of people finally spoke out and the many more Crean stories started to come out of the woodwork.

[4everwarriors]

Yes, yes, there were people who thought he was a phony for years. 



It's OK Topper to mention us by name.