OT: Is the NU union movement forcing epic change on college sports ... Now?

[Tugg Speedman]

The week after the Northwestern gets the go-ahead to start the union that this document was leaked.  This list is pretty much the demands of the new union (CAPA). 

Anyone buying these schools trying to say "yeah, we were just about to change all our rules" and the fact this is happening now is merely coincident?

I've been in favor of the union because I think it will a catalyst for change.  The current system is a clusterf**k and needs changing.  So it looks like the union movement is working.

Thoughts?

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http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/writer/dennis-dodd/24509028/document-details-effort-for-autonomy-among-five-power-conferences

Document details effort for autonomy among power conferences
March 31, 2014 2:33 pm ET

CBSSports.com has obtained a document detailing NCAA rules the power conferences would seek to change or amend in upcoming governance discussions.

The broad outline more formally recognizes those five conferences' desire to adjust rules dealing with agent contact, limits on coaching staff size and scholarship renewal.

According to sources, the document was distributed to college leaders by Wake Forest president Nathan Hatch, chair of the NCAA Steering Committee for Governance. That committee is overseeing the autonomy discussion among those five conferences – Big 12, Pac-12, SEC, ACC and Big Ten.

“I think what was reflected in that memo is a growing consensus,” Pac-12 commissioner Larry Scott said. “I think we're going to get there.”

Among the topics addressed in what is labeled an “Attachment to Memorandum”:

-- A lifetime opportunity fund that would allow former players to complete their education after leaving school. It would benefit players who depart early for the draft or who don't graduate after their eligibility expires.

This point was mentioned specifically by Big Ten commissioner Jim Delany last summer.

-- Provide full cost of attendance to players. This long-discussed topic seems to a certainty in the future. Players would be given a prescribed amount extra in living expenses based on the cost of living in the particular college town.

-- Redefine rules governing agents. That's a preference of SEC commissioner Mike Slive. While Slive hasn't been specific about what those changes would be, assume that new rules would allow more contact with agents while players are in school.

Slive often uses the example of students in other majors having access to experts in that field. Why shouldn't an athlete be given the same advantages of a concert pianist who consults with great composer?

-- Meet the healthy, safety and nutritional needs of players.

Those first four bullet items had been previously mentioned among the commissioners.

New to the memorandum are these points the commissioners may want to change “if future circumstances warrant revision." …

-- Addressing scholarships that are reduced, cancelled or not renewed at the whim of a coach. Coaches have been criticized for promising a full-ride in recruiting then have the power to cancel scholarships on a year-to-year basis.

In 1973, the NCAA went from four-year scholarships to one-year renewable scholarships.

-- Provide paid transportation for parents for official recruiting visits to championship events. (College Football Playoff, NCAA Tournament, bowls etc.)

-- Rescinding rules that inhibit a player's desire to pursue a non-athletic career. A Minnesota wrestler was declared ineligible last year because he posted music videos of himself online. NCAA rules prohibit a player from using his name or image for commercial use.

That rule seems to going away one way or another. Players' rights to their image and likeness are at the heart of the O'Bannon lawsuit.

-- Permit schools or players to get loans regarding “career-related” insurance.

-- Policies regarding athletes' time demands. Northwestern players were allowed to unionize, in part, because a National Labor Relations Board official concluded that players do devote at least 40 hours per week to their sport.

-- More flexible transfer rules.

At the January NCAA Convention, 70 percent of those at a governance dialogue voting in a straw poll were not against the five conferences gaining voting power in the legislative process.

"I've been impressed with the degree of alignment throughout Division I for allowing autonomy," Scott said. “There is a recognition that has evolved for schools that have more resources up to the cost of attendance."

The commissioners of those leagues began publicly lobbying last summer for voting autonomy. They want rules that fit the high-end stakeholders in college football and basketball (their schools). They also seek enhanced student-athlete welfare.

Last week, that steering committee advocated the addition of an AD, an athlete and faculty-athletic representative in the new governance system. Those new additions would have voting power and be part of a new legislative group called the "The Council." As a whole, The Council would be made up of reps from the 32 Division I conferences and two athletes.

The 34 members would have votes, but those votes would be weighted. The five power conferences would have 37 percent of the vote. No Division I entity would have a majority of the vote.

Several big five ADs and commissioners have advocated more representation at the decision-making level.

[Anti-Dentite]

What, no poll? 

[Tugg Speedman]

What, no poll?  

So I've been on this site for six years starting polls and threads literally every week.  Then an event happens and new idiots show up asking the same stupid questions that were answered during the Bush Administration.  Worse, they think they are funny or even unique not realizing these questions have been asked a thousand times before.

Why don't you use the search function because it's getting tiresome answering these question all over again.

And tomorrow when we hire a new coach, another batch of idiots will sign up and I'll have to answer these questions again next week.

PS ... I once started a poll about my starting polls.  Go look it up and see what the answer was (hint, I'm still starting polls)

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

To be honest the list seems to be fair other than Provide full cost of attendance to players. which is the line item where abuse could come in.
Help athletes finish there education.
 
Would modifying agent rules be if I kid doesn't get drafted he can go back to school or simply just because he hires an agent doesn't mean he's barred from returning to school?  Would this lead to more kids declaring early?

[Tugg Speedman]

To be honest the list seems to be fair other than Provide full cost of attendance to players. which is the line item where abuse could come in.
Help athletes finish there education.
 
Would modifying agent rules be if I kid doesn't get drafted he can go back to school or simply just because he hires an agent doesn't mean he's barred from returning to school?  Would this lead to more kids declaring early?

I think they mean a kid can have an agent year around. 

Personally, I think they should be allowed to get drafted, or negotiate a minor league contract and can return at anytime until they sign that contract.  Give them full info.

Then Vander goes undrafted, can participate  in the summer league (get paid doing it, sure.  It's a summer job.  If the kid studying engineering, on an engineering scholarship, can get a summer job at an engineering firm, why can't a basketball player get a summer job playing basketball?) 

Then he gets cut (summer camp ends, this means not offered a NBA contract), his agent can then find him the best deal in Europe and he can weigh the pros and cons of going to Europe or returning to MU.  Like I said, give him complete and full info to make his decision.

-----

I also like the idea of giving them control of their likeness.  "Johnny Football" is giving away tens of millions in endorsements by staying at A&M.  Let him license his likeness and do "Johnny Football" commercials while at A&M.  He would make so much money off that he might stay.

Denard Robinson at Michigan also gave away many millions not having contol of his likeness.  Ditto Wiggins, Randle and Jabari Parker.

[LegalEagle15]

Modifying agent rules could mean a whole host of things, from increasing on campus agent days to allowing athletes to come back after failing to get drafted. Tough to see the NCAA willing to let students come back after they've spent time with an agent, but letting kids talk to agents about their possibilities at the next level could be done reasonably. Agents, however, aren't the most upstanding of individuals, so any opening that the NCAA gives to them could open floodgates (not to say that they don't already engage in a lot of interaction with players). Just the nature of the business.

Full cost of attendance is going to drag on for a while, as are the image concerns. The core of the image concerns is that it's tough to distinguish how the athlete is accruing the interest in his outside work - i.e. are people watching the video because Johnny Manziel is rapping and they actually like his singing or because he's a college football player? In other words, does the interest in his work derive from his activities as a scholarship football player. The court in Bloom v NCAA held that an athlete can collect winnings from a sport in which they are not a scholarship athlete in, but they cannot derive value from an endorsement if the economic benefit they gain from that endorsement can be reasonably linked back to their scholarship sport and the notoriety they gain from that scholarship sport (in that case Bloom could collect prize money from skiing events but couldn't accept payment for his modeling career). It's a tenuous rule that could be changed, but it would shake a lot of things up.

Most of the other points I think are valid concerns of athletes. Safety is a huge issue, and I like that the idea of offering athletes the ability to come back and finish their degree. Especially if they keep advocating the idea of the "student-athlete".

If coaches can't reduce or remove scholarships at a whim how will Brett Williams be able to manage his VT team and buzz-cut players?! 

[ChicosBailBonds]

My favorite from the trial yesterday was the attorney asking O'Bannon if Little Leaguers should be paid for putting the Little League World series on the air.   High schoolers as well.  How about the Spelling Bee participants.

Ed probably thinks that people are actually tuning in to see Tanner Boyle as Shortstop or Scotty Smalls in Center field.  Actually, they are tuning in to watch a team play and it doesn't matter usually who the team is, or how old the 3rd baseman is.  They watch for the team, not the individual.  It's stuff like this where the networks will basically say "ok, no more". 


http://espn.go.com/espn/otl/story/_/id/11057319/ncaa-effectively-narrows-obannon-ncaa-case-tv-revenue

[brandx]

I get it - players don't matter.

Do you honestly believe that?

And, yes. if they start paying Little League coaches millions of $$$, then the kids should get paid as well.

It's all about people profiting off of other's work (even as those doing the work aren't getting paid).

[Tugg Speedman]

I get it - players don't matter.

Do you honestly believe that?

And, yes. if they start paying Little League coaches millions of $$$, then the kids should get paid as well.

It's all about people profiting off of other's work (even as those doing the work aren't getting paid).

+1 

If ABC is going to make big bucks off broadcasting the little league world series, should they keep 100% of that money?  Should the leagues get paid?  And if the leagues get paid, why not the players?  Ditto the spelling bee.

Why is it so hard to embrace the idea if someone is doing something that produces a monetary value, they should get some of it?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I get it - players don't matter.

Do you honestly believe that?

And, yes. if they start paying Little League coaches millions of $$$, then the kids should get paid as well.

It's all about people profiting off of other's work (even as those doing the work aren't getting paid).

Is it all about profiting from others work?  Really?  They can't coexist?  Think about what you are saying, it's as if you imply that the participants get nothing, which is a crock of crap.

And no, you don't get it...the players do matter.  That's why they are being given a free education even for some that can't even spell the word education.  Room, board, education, top flight instruction, mentoring, networking access to alumni....none of that is free and all of that available. 

Imagine all the "profits" being made off women's softball, women's hockey, women's track, men's volleyball, men's track, men's soccer...all those profits.     Yet they are still doing this hardwork. I have an idea, they should get paid even though it isn't profitable, seems like $15 an hour is the new standard I keep hearing about. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

+1 

If ABC is going to make big bucks off broadcasting the little league world series, should they keep 100% of that money?  Should the leagues get paid?  And if the leagues get paid, why not the players?  Ditto the spelling bee.

Why is it so hard to embrace the idea if someone is doing something that produces a monetary value, they should get some of it?

Because ABC isn't making big bucks off broadcasting the Little League World Series, or the Spelling Bee.  It's content filler.  It's a chance for 12 year olds to get on TV and bring some of that into the living rooms of Americans.  Besides, LL of America is getting some funding from the contract to carry it, just because little Jimmy Jo from Santa Fe playing OF isn't, the organization is, which ultimately benefits the kids to some degree.

What's next, you want to pay people that the evening news has on when they report a traffic accident on the highway...afterall, you are using their likeness. 

[starting5]

Was at the LLWS 2 years ago and those kids are treated like rock stars for the 7-10 days they are there.  Plus they get full uniforms, bags, batting gloves, bats, gloves, cleats, meals and rooms. 
Just crazy to me to even think of paying those kids anything. 

Businesses are out to make money not to break even.  Once college athletes get paid, I can see the football and basketball players going to court for more money cause they bring in more than the little sports.  Players need to stop and think for a minute about how good they have it!!
I played NAIA baseball was on a half scholarship, my school then went D3 and 20 years later I just finished paying my student loans

Players wanting to get paid is just a joke, they are just looking for more freebies!!

[brandx]

Is it all about profiting from others work?  Really?  They can't coexist?  Think about what you are saying, it's as if you imply that the participants get nothing, which is a crock of crap.

And no, you don't get it...the players do matter.  That's why they are being given a free education even for some that can't even spell the word education.  Room, board, education, top flight instruction, mentoring, networking access to alumni....none of that is free and all of that available. 

Imagine all the "profits" being made off women's softball, women's hockey, women's track, men's volleyball, men's track, men's soccer...all those profits.     Yet they are still doing this hardwork. I have an idea, they should get paid even though it isn't profitable, seems like $15 an hour is the new standard I keep hearing about. 

That's the point. Most of the kids who have NBA aspirations aren't there for the free education, they don't want the free education. They are there ONLY because the system has been gamed so the schools can make million of $$$ off of them.

You sure hate the free market for a guy that loves the free market so much.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Was at the LLWS 2 years ago and those kids are treated like rock stars for the 7-10 days they are there.  Plus they get full uniforms, bags, batting gloves, bats, gloves, cleats, meals and rooms. 
Just crazy to me to even think of paying those kids anything. 

Businesses are out to make money not to break even.  Once college athletes get paid, I can see the football and basketball players going to court for more money cause they bring in more than the little sports.  Players need to stop and think for a minute about how good they have it!!
I played NAIA baseball was on a half scholarship, my school then went D3 and 20 years later I just finished paying my student loans

Players wanting to get paid is just a joke, they are just looking for more freebies!!

It's a great experience.  My son made it as an 11 and 12 year old for LL All Stars.  His team didn't get to Williamsport but did very well, another Orange County team did and won it all (3 years ago) against Japan I think.  Amazing experience for them and it is wonderful that their experience is shared with the public, which television helps to do. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

That's the point. Most of the kids who have NBA aspirations aren't there for the free education, they don't want the free education. They are there ONLY because the system has been gamed so the schools can make million of $$$ off of them.

You sure hate the free market for a guy that loves the free market so much.

350 DI teams, 13 players per team.  4,550 DI men's basketball players.  Approximately 45 to 50 each year go to the NBA, the rest are Euros. 

If those kids don't want to get a free education, then go in the NBDL, go to Europe.  Why are we scrapping everything for the 1%....there you go again supporting the 1%

[Lennys Tap]

You sure hate the free market for a guy that loves the free market so much.

Chico loves free markets as long as he and his pals are exempt from it. Too big to fail, status quo crony capitalism has no more real regard for free markets than socialism.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chico loves free markets as long as he and his pals are exempt from it. Too big to fail, status quo crony capitalism has no more real regard for free markets than socialism.

No such thing as a free market, you of all people should know this.

And yes, in sports I believe in benefitting those that manage resources best.  You all get $X amount, now it's up to you to spend it wisely.  Sorry, but I don't like the Yankees buying championships or Dodgers model.  I prefer a structure, in sports, where talent is so limited that it allows tiny Green Bay to kick Chicago's ass every year.  I do.  In a world where talent is abundant and not an issue, then no I do not prefer that.

But please, show me where outside of sports I am against "free markets" as you describe them.  I've told you ad nauseum I support a la carte television programming, so don't even try to go there.  I'll be waiting.

[Spotcheck Billy]

350 DI teams, 13 players per team.  4,550 DI men's basketball players.  Approximately 45 to 50 each year go to the NBA, the rest are Euros.  

If those kids don't want to get a free education, then go in the NBDL, go to Europe.  Why are we scrapping everything for the 1%....there you go again supporting the 1%

40-50/year go to the NBA but how many others play professionally elsewhere? These kids would rather develop and get exposure for free in college than heading straight to the NBDL or Europe without that exposure. (I know that reeks of getting something besides a free education)