MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: 4everwarriors on December 13, 2008, 03:30:51 PM
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Seems like his luck of beating Kentucky left him when he bolted.
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hopefully that was a Marquette thing and not a Crean thing.
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Seems like his luck of beating Kentucky left him when he bolted.
I'll bet you they fire him after this year
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I just turned on the game and Indiana looks just plain awful. They look so lost, and their center (Prichard?) can't seem to finish at all
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it's a shame, a damn shame.
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A damn, damn shame.
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don't ask why, 'cuse I really don't have an answer--but am watching the Tan One and IU seems to be running different sets than MU. More activity by the center, in coming out for the ball and passing it.
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Maybe he found a new play book left over from Bobby Knight.
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Dumes looks a player. Nick...didn't do much. Unless 8 points and Chevy player of the game counts for something.
Loved the graphic of Michigan, Ohio State and Michigan State, and how they're really good right now.
Indiana's gonna get their clocks cleaned this season.
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I'll bet you they fire him after this year
I am with you on this one. I think Crean will have IU back in great shape within three years. anyone making assuptions based on what he walked into this season is just plain stupid.
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And I think that sometimes it takes a couple years, but people eventually begin to recognize a phony when they see him.
Crean is the Charlie Weis of college basketball.
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And I think that sometimes it takes a couple years, but people eventually begin to recognize a phony when they see him.
Crean is the Charlie Weis of college basketball.
If he was such a phony why did he last 9 years at MU?
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If he was such a phony why did he last 9 years at MU?
+1
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If he was such a phony why did he last 9 years at MU?
cuz the only people more incompetent that I4Tommy is the MU administration.
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the networks need to stop showing IU games. they are worse than awful. no one should have to watch them play.
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I still don't get the need for some on this board to constantly trash Tom Crean. Let it go folks.
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I still don't get the need for some on this board to constantly trash Tom Crean. Let it go folks.
Need you ask?
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I'm with Norm. Thanks for the 9 years. He should have recruited a big or two and he should have handled the exit better. Karma has gotten even with him this year for his exit, good luck and God Bless. We will all know in a few years whether MU was holding him back or holding him up. The accident is well into the clean up phase. Nothing to see here. Move on, people.
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The Crean haters will say this guy doesn't know what he's talking about either. Mark Few on Crean.
"(Indiana) absolutely has the right guy for this job,'' Few said. "One of the best compliments I think you can pay a coach is to say his team plays hard. His team is playing extremely hard. They're young and they just don't quite have as many horses as I think they've had in the past. But he'll get it going. He's a relentless recruiter, he's a heck of a game coach and a very good tactician. He'll get it going.''
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Crean is a damn good coach and will have indiana winning again.
He just is egocentric as all get up and you could see that in his leaving. He's good and if he was an elite recruiter he may not have had to leave but he needed to find a way to get over his deficiency. Anyway this crap keeps getting rehashed. Trashing on him does us no good because he will succeed.
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Tom Crean will win an Indiana no doubt. I grow weary of bashing the guy on here because he no longer is MU-related. Superbar please...
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If he was such a phony why did he last 9 years at MU?
I never claimed his job should have been in jeopardy. But people at MU knew he was a phony...and they'll figure it out at IU.
I'm comparing him to Charlie Weis. Weis has several Super Bowl rings, which he rarely fails to mention. After two years at ND, they thought he was Knute Rockne. Now? Not so much.
Crean = Weis. You watch.
As for the "let it go" contingent...he was our coach for 9 years. Are we not supposed to reference anything that happened in the past? Let's also stop talking about Wade, Diener, Novak, Tony Smith, Butch Lee, Bo Ellis, Al McGuire, Hank Raymonds, Mike Deane, Jim McIlvaine, the phrase "Cracked Sidewalks," and our unending list of former nicknames.
Are acceptable topics now limited to Buzz Williams, McNeal's NBA prospects and our short bench?
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I don't think you know what you are talking about. Weis recruits lights out, he just can't develop players worth a sh.t. Crean couldn't recruit elite but still won 10 games in the ultra competitive Big East each year. That's why he moved on to get a recruiting advantage and wasn't canned. Your analogy sucks.
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I never claimed his job should have been in jeopardy. But people at MU knew he was a phony...and they'll figure it out at IU.
I'm comparing him to Charlie Weis. Weis has several Super Bowl rings, which he rarely fails to mention. After two years at ND, they thought he was Knute Rockne. Now? Not so much.
Crean = Weis. You watch.
As for the "let it go" contingent...he was our coach for 9 years. Are we not supposed to reference anything that happened in the past? Let's also stop talking about Wade, Diener, Novak, Tony Smith, Butch Lee, Bo Ellis, Al McGuire, Hank Raymonds, Mike Deane, Jim McIlvaine, the phrase "Cracked Sidewalks," and our unending list of former nicknames.
Are acceptable topics now limited to Buzz Williams, McNeal's NBA prospects and our short bench?
I don't see the Weis correlation at all. Weis won with Willingham's players and not with his own, yet.
Crean took over a losing team and won with the players he got and did it repeatedly. Weis has yet to do that. Weis has yet to even win a bowl game.
Crean's teams play very hard and that can even be said now with a very talent flawed IU team, they are still playing hard.
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I don't think you know what you are talking about. Weis recruits lights out, he just can't develop players worth a sh.t. Crean couldn't recruit elite but still won 10 games in the ultra competitive Big East each year. That's why he moved on to get a recruiting advantage and wasn't canned. Your analogy sucks.
+1. weis has his 4th consectutive top ten class coming in and can't win. Crean never had top ten classes and won a lot of games.
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I don't think rebuilding a once proud program is so easy anymore; however, the alum. will eventually come to expect much more than NCAA appearances. I think when people speculate what "bringing back IU" means, they need to specify what that will look like.
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I don't think rebuilding a once proud program is so easy anymore; however, the alum. will eventually come to expect much more than NCAA appearances. I think when people speculate what "bringing back IU" means, they need to specify what that will look like.
It's easier to rebuild IU then it is MU. He rebuilt MU, he'll rebuild IU.
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It's easier to rebuild IU then it is MU. He rebuilt MU, he'll rebuild IU.
Some may not like it, but thats the reality. What remains to be seen is how successful he ends up at IU.
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He'll succeed. He's made a name for himself as a tireless coach and promoter, and we know that he networks like nobody's business. He's put himself in the realm of top tier coaches, based, in my opinion, on his ability to communicate an energy and a vision that is consistent with a top business leader or motivation guru. In the coaching biz, that's a plus. He's no John Wooden. But the salesmanship gift will take him a long way, and he's got media savvy in spades. Don't know the guy. At this level, it's less about character than about the perception of character. He'll be able to recruit blue chippers like never before, and that's where it's at. He's ambitious. And I think he's lucky. He's sort of "got it," and everyone kind of knows it.
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He'll succeed. He's made a name for himself as a tireless coach and promoter, and we know that he networks like nobody's business. He's put himself in the realm of top tier coaches, based, in my opinion, on his ability to communicate an energy and a vision that is consistent with a top business leader or motivation guru. In the coaching biz, that's a plus. He's no John Wooden. But the salesmanship gift will take him a long way, and he's got media savvy in spades. Don't know the guy. At this level, it's less about character than about the perception of character. He'll be able to recruit blue chippers like never before, and that's where it's at. He's ambitious. And I think he's lucky. He's sort of "got it," and everyone kind of knows it.
I think you've nailed it. However, he's still a phony and a prick. He uses people and overstayed his MU welcome by 5 years. His act got real old especially for those of us who had his number.
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I still don't get the need for some on this board to constantly trash Tom Crean. Let it go folks.
+1
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I think you've nailed it. However, he's still a phony and a prick. He uses people and overstayed his MU welcome by 5 years. His act got real old especially for those of us who had his number.
So, if you had his number, say, five years ago then why are you so agitated with him even though he left MU seven months ago? :-\
Seems childish, with perhaps a dash of bitterness, to start a thread slamming a guy that you've been "over" for half a decade. Especially for a +45. jmo.
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Haven't been agitated with him at all since, thankfully, he left. Just happy to see him get his.
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It's easier to rebuild IU then it is MU. He rebuilt MU, he'll rebuild IU.
You didn't specify what "rebuild" means for MU or IU. Is it easier to rebuild MU to the standard of which he did, or rebuild IU to the standard of what they expect?
Is it easier for Billy Gillespie to rebuild UK then Texas A&M. History has shown plenty of coaches that "rebuild" programs the size/type of MU and then fail at a bigger school, and plenty have succeeded. In my opinion, only time will tell, but I think he's going to have a heck of a time trying to live up to IU's expectations in the long-run, and he'll never have a Dwayne Wade for two years again.
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I think you've nailed it. However, he's still a phony and a prick. He uses people and overstayed his MU welcome by 5 years. His act got real old especially for those of us who had his number.
I don't recall that you've ever offered up exactly what Crean did to you that has you on a five+ year tirade. Can you share what you mean by "phony" or "prick".
Which people did he "use". What "act"? What is his "number."
I know guys who aren't as upset with their ex-wives after they got taken to the cleaners in a divorce as you are with Crean.
Since you're going to continue with these type of statements, could you share the details?
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Here you go:
"Phony," "act," and "number" are pretty much all the same thing. Think of con man, disingenuous, self-serving and not to be trusted. You know, your basic snake in the grass.
"Use" refers to the manipulation of people to promote one's own self-interest irrespective of the consequences to said people.
"Prick" is a passive term, as opposed to more descriptive, offensive words, to describe a person who acts in the above like manner.
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Marquette84 -
If the Packers throw another 6-10 record out there next year and Mike McCarthy finds himself as the QB coach in Jacksonville, will Crean still offer him courtside seats? How about Ben Sheets? When his arm falls off a year from now (or his finger nail acts up) when he's playing for the Nationals...do those guys keep in touch? When you answer that honestly, you have your answer as to what a phony is.
Many, many people who recognized this guy's disengenious personality felt that having Crean represent Marquette for 9 years was like having a root canal every single day. It's not a joke...the guy seriously had fake tan! Come on!
Anybody defending this guy either overdosed on the anesthesia from New Orleans or are still floating on air because Joanie Crean said hello to your wife in the mall in Anaheim.
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Seriously guys... why the hatred? I can understand not liking parts of his personality, but it seriously seems like you guys hate him.
He wasn't perfect, but he left the program is WAY better shape than he found it.
He won a lot of games and graduated kids. MU's national rep is better now than in 1998.
He doesn't deserve all of the credit, but certainly a fair share of it.
Why do you hate him so much?
Can't you look past the "fake tan" or who he chose to hang out with? If I'm grading a coach, those 2 things don't even make the top 100.
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I think you've nailed it. However, he's still a phony and a prick. He uses people and overstayed his MU welcome by 5 years. His act got real old especially for those of us who had his number.
Do you know how many phony pricks there are in the coaching industry that are successful as hell? Many! I'll take phony and a prick if it means we're winning, going to the NCAAs and not cheating while doing it.
I'll take nice guy who is winning, going to the NCAAs and not cheating over the phony prick but that's rarer to find. Maybe we got one in Buzz. That would be terrific.
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I don't think Tom Crean is the devil just like I don't think Buzz Williams is a saint. I've heard second hand that Crean can be a prick but what's the point of bringing it up? it's all second hand crap so I just ignore it. We didn't hire a priest we hired a basketball coach in 1999 and he turned out to be pretty good at what he did.
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Tom Crean is evil and must be destroyed!!!!
how about that? ;D
come on guys, let's move on...we got the Buzz now!
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Oh my God!!! you all need to shut up about Tommy and get over it! Can't anybody look at the positive that we have Buzz now, and he is a much better recruiter than Crean ever was. For all you MU fans to sit on your laptops and rip on 'phony' crean is absolutely ridiculous, say what you want but he did resurrect MU Basketball more than any other coach since AL. So stop crying that he left, you all are too upset and obsessed about it.
And by the way, to call him phony is hypocritical; how many of you loved him while he was winning here, and then suddenly acted like your opinion about him has never changed and you have always 'seen through his phoniness (sp)'-you're phonies for acting like you never liked crean and don't appreciate what he did here- do you really think I believe you?
I'm glad he is gone because I believe in Buzz. I was more pissed that right when we thought we had a coach that would stay at MU and not leave for a bigger-name program (i.e. Mark Few) we got shocked. But guess what- it might be better for both of us. Hate Indiana, but shut your jealous resentful traps about Crean, you all loved him while he was here (Ill give you that 'love' is probably too strong a term), and anyone who says they never liked crean, or saw through him, or whatever else BS flies out of this board is flat-out lying.
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Yes, Tom Crean kicked butt and resurrected the program from Mike Deane and his 20 game win seasons. You cant look at just the Wade years, we had some exceptional seasons beyond wade!
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Here you go:
"Phony," "act," and "number" are pretty much all the same thing. Think of con man, disingenuous, self-serving and not to be trusted. You know, your basic snake in the grass.
"Use" refers to the manipulation of people to promote one's own self-interest irrespective of the consequences to said people.
"Prick" is a passive term, as opposed to more descriptive, offensive words, to describe a person who acts in the above like manner.
All you've done is repeat the same things! I asked for examples.
Provide the specific cons that Crean ran. Who was conned out of what. What did Crean get from the deal.
If Crean maniuplated people, name some specific people Crean manipulated to promote his own self interest irrespective of the consequences. Tell me what the negative consequences were. Who was manipulated?
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Marquette84 -
If the Packers throw another 6-10 record out there next year and Mike McCarthy finds himself as the QB coach in Jacksonville, will Crean still offer him courtside seats? How about Ben Sheets? When his arm falls off a year from now (or his finger nail acts up) when he's playing for the Nationals...do those guys keep in touch? When you answer that honestly, you have your answer as to what a phony is.
Many, many people who recognized this guy's disengenious personality felt that having Crean represent Marquette for 9 years was like having a root canal every single day. It's not a joke...the guy seriously had fake tan! Come on!
Anybody defending this guy either overdosed on the anesthesia from New Orleans or are still floating on air because Joanie Crean said hello to your wife in the mall in Anaheim.
Amazing how many bitter people there are in the world.
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Yes, Tom Crean kicked butt and resurrected the program from Mike Deane and his 20 game win seasons. You cant look at just the Wade years, we had some exceptional seasons beyond wade!
He took a program that was not even an NIT program, that couldn't even sniff a CUSA title and it became a program of 5 NCAAs in 7 years. Yes, I'd say that's rebuilding a program....mostly doing it in the Big East. This program is LIGHT YEARS ahead of where it was in the mid to late 1990's, not even on the same planet.
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All you've done is repeat the same things! I asked for examples.
Provide the specific cons that Crean ran. Who was conned out of what. What did Crean get from the deal.
If Crean maniuplated people, name some specific people Crean manipulated to promote his own self interest irrespective of the consequences. Tell me what the negative consequences were. Who was manipulated?
What's interesting to me is that 4ever had his number and lived not far from him. Obviously Crean trusted him but 4ever has come on here for years now talking crap about him behind his back incessantly. Now that's support. ::) We need a lot more boosters and alums like that. The more the merrier.
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Marquette84 -
If the Packers throw another 6-10 record out there next year and Mike McCarthy finds himself as the QB coach in Jacksonville, will Crean still offer him courtside seats? How about Ben Sheets? When his arm falls off a year from now (or his finger nail acts up) when he's playing for the Nationals...do those guys keep in touch? When you answer that honestly, you have your answer as to what a phony is.
Honestly, if McCarthy found himself in Jacksonville, or Sheets plays for the Nationals, I doubt Crean would have offered them court-side seats again. I also doubt that McCarthy and Sheets would want the courtside seats, nor would they be in a position to speak to the team at a pre-game meeting. I have a hard time understanding why asking a successful local sports figure to come in as a motivational speaker (and even giving them court-side seats) makes someone a phony. I think the idea of bringing in local motivational speakers is a good idea.
If the Dean of Engineering brought in the CEO of Johnson Controls to give a motivational talk to students, would that make the Dean a phony? If your CEO brought in Tom Peters to speak with your company (and entertained him afterwards in a suite at the Bradley Center), does that make your CEO a phony? I'm sorry--this seem extremely petty on your part.
As for Crean's tan, I thought we were beyond judging people based on skin color. I guess only some of us have reached that goal--you still have a ways to go. Meanwhile, so what if Crean gets a tan. Why on earth does that bother you? Seriously--if your wife came home from a tanning parlor, would you divorce her for it? Decide you couldn't trust her anymore?
I've asked for specifics, and so far you've provided some pretty inane reasons to hate someone:
1. He gets fake tans.
2. He invites motivational speakers and gives them courtside tickets, without promising lifetime loyaty.
Sorry, but I really don't understand how you can have this level of vitriol based on these examples. Frankly, I can't understand how these examples could even CONTRIBUTE to a dislike of Crean.
If you're making a decision about Crean on the basis that he uses a tanning parlor, I have to think it says more about your character than Crean's.
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Yes, Tom Crean kicked butt and resurrected the program from Mike Deane and his 20 game win seasons. You cant look at just the Wade years, we had some exceptional seasons beyond wade!
Sarcasm or not, he's still probably the 2nd best coach in history.
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Sarcasm or not, he's still probably the 2nd best coach in history.
BLASPHEMY!
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Not only will I always root against Crean, I'll also root against anyone with the last name Harbaugh because they're pricks by association
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My 2 cents (you may have heard this before on another thread):
Crean helped the program. I agree with Chicos that it was in much better shape when he left than when he got here. However, under his watch his teams seemed to fade at around tournament time (except once) and lack of paint presence dogged us (and still dogs us) for the last few years. He seemed to have plateaued and could not for whatever reason seem to get the talent in to get us to the next level. In particular the question of recruiting bigs. I would take the center from Temple or Tulsa or about 3 dozen non-top 25 teams rather than what we've got. He left the cupboard bare in the frontcourt.
I wish him luck at Indiana and believe he might have gotten the curse of not being able to recruit bigs off his back already if you look at his 2009 class.
I have moved on months ago and when it comes to recruiting, I am happier with Buzz. With regard to coaching and preparation, the jury is still out.
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If you're making a decision about Crean on the basis that he uses a tanning parlor, I have to think it says more about your character than Crean's.
You are DAMN RIGHT I make judgements on the character of men who use tanning parlors. ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY I do! Are you saying there are people who don't? I don't even believe that.
I'll go you one further, if you don't look at any male who uses a tanning bed with some level of suspicion, you judgement can only generously be called questionable.
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You are DAMN RIGHT I make judgements on the character of men who use tanning parlors. ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY I do! Are you saying there are people who don't? I don't even believe that.
I'll go you one further, if you don't look at any male who uses a tanning bed with some level of suspicion, you judgement can only generously be called questionable.
Do you look at men that use a toupee? How about hair plugs or other hair system? How about teeth whitening? Lasek surgery so they don't have to wear glasses? Are you a Barry Alvarez fan, he was tan all the time? What is your criteria in terms of people choosing to do whatever they feel is appropriate to make themselves feel better?
Personally, yeah I think tanning is not only weird, it's unhealthy. But if that's what someone wants to do and it makes them feel better about themselves, then who the hell cares.
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My $.02.
I loved Crean when he started at MU, his enthusiasm was contagious and he brought in good kids who played hard and graduated. The final 4 year was the high point of my sportsfan life.
But my enthusiasm for Crean waned as time went on. The number of transfers and the constant turnover of coaching assistants made me question what was going on. Additionally, I began to hear stories that he was not the man I thought him to be. On top of that, the annual flameout come tournament time - the team didn't just lose, they lost badly - was wearing on me. While they played much better in the BE and NCAA tournaments last year, the manner in which he left resulted in me disliking the guy. As a result, will root against him and IU for years to come. But I root against many times and won't root against Crean with any more animosity than I do against other guys such as Boeheim.
I don't think there's any reason why MU fans can't root against Crean. He did well at MU and for MU, but he got paid handsomely for it and then worked his success into an incredible package at IU.
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My $.02.
I loved Crean when he started at MU, his enthusiasm was contagious and he brought in good kids who played hard and graduated. The final 4 year was the high point of my sportsfan life.
But my enthusiasm for Crean waned as time went on. The number of transfers and the constant turnover of coaching assistants made me question what was going on. Additionally, I began to hear stories that he was not the man I thought him to be. On top of that, the annual flameout come tournament time - the team didn't just lose, they lost badly - was wearing on me. While they played much better in the BE and NCAA tournaments last year, the manner in which he left resulted in me disliking the guy. As a result, will root against him and IU for years to come. But I root against many times and won't root against Crean with any more animosity than I do against other guys such as Boeheim.
I don't think there's any reason why MU fans can't root against Crean. He did well at MU and for MU, but he got paid handsomely for it and then worked his success into an incredible package at IU.
Well put. +1
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right on.
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Do you look at men that use a toupee? How about hair plugs or other hair system? How about teeth whitening? Lasek surgery so they don't have to wear glasses? Are you a Barry Alvarez fan, he was tan all the time? What is your criteria in terms of people choosing to do whatever they feel is appropriate to make themselves feel better?
Personally, yeah I think tanning is not only weird, it's unhealthy. But if that's what someone wants to do and it makes them feel better about themselves, then who the hell cares.
Yes, if somebody chooses to wear a wig....unless it's for some health-related reason...I think their judgement can be called into question. Hair plugs (Joe Biden), the same thing. Teeth whitening is for women. If I see a guy who has had his teeth whitened, I absolutely make a judgement about the guy. Lasik eye surgery is not in the same category.
I am not a Barry Alvarez fan. Never liked Wisconsin, never will. I root for Northwestern in football, first. Illinois second.
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"Yes, if somebody chooses to wear a wig....unless it's for some health-related reason...I think their judgement can be called into question. Hair plugs (Joe Biden), the same thing. Teeth whitening is for women. If I see a guy who has had his teeth whitened, I absolutely make a judgement about the guy. Lasik eye surgery is not in the same category."
I can't tell from your post - are you criticizing Joe Biden for wearing hair plugs? You do realize that Biden wore hair plugs for awhile after his two brain surgeries to fix two aneurysms, right? He no longer wears them.
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My $.02.
I loved Crean when he started at MU, his enthusiasm was contagious and he brought in good kids who played hard and graduated. The final 4 year was the high point of my sportsfan life.
But my enthusiasm for Crean waned as time went on. The number of transfers and the constant turnover of coaching assistants made me question what was going on. Additionally, I began to hear stories that he was not the man I thought him to be. On top of that, the annual flameout come tournament time - the team didn't just lose, they lost badly - was wearing on me. While they played much better in the BE and NCAA tournaments last year, the manner in which he left resulted in me disliking the guy. As a result, will root against him and IU for years to come. But I root against many times and won't root against Crean with any more animosity than I do against other guys such as Boeheim.
I don't think there's any reason why MU fans can't root against Crean. He did well at MU and for MU, but he got paid handsomely for it and then worked his success into an incredible package at IU.
The transfers sucked big time, no doubt about it. I guess I don't understand the comment of the team losing "badly" in the NCAAs. We had a last second shot to tie Alabama, not sure how that is losing badly. We lost in OT to Stanford on a last second shot. Lost to Tulsa with a last second shot to tie. The only "bad" loss was Michigan State with our best player in a cast. And yes, we lost badly to Kansas, of course it was also the Final Four, something we hadn't smelled in almost 30 years. I just don't understand the comment about losing badly.
Fans, in general get spoiled and start to hate on the coach. At IU, many fans didn't like him (Knight). At KU, fans were bitching about Roy because he couldn't win it. Cowboys fans were bitching about Parcells. It's usually not until the guy is gone when you say he wasn't as bad as he was made out to be. Of course, that always depends on how successful the follow-up coach is. If he fails, then the memories of the hated coach warm over rather quickly. If he succeeds, then obviously not.
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Yes, if somebody chooses to wear a wig....unless it's for some health-related reason...I think their judgement can be called into question. Hair plugs (Joe Biden), the same thing. Teeth whitening is for women. If I see a guy who has had his teeth whitened, I absolutely make a judgement about the guy. Lasik eye surgery is not in the same category.
I am not a Barry Alvarez fan. Never liked Wisconsin, never will. I root for Northwestern in football, first. Illinois second.
How did you view Majerus for being obese?
Honestly, I don't care what someone looks like or what they do to make themselves feel better (for the record, I have my own hair, don't tan, don't whiten my teeth and could stand to lose 10 to 15 lbs). I just don't care. Can the guy coach, can he win without cheating, do his kids graduate, do we win, are we competitive. That's what I care about.
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Of course, that always depends on how successful the follow-up coach is. If he fails, then the memories of the hated coach warm over rather quickly. If he succeeds, then obviously not.
I seriously doubt memories of Crean will ever "warm over." I'm still waiting to meet somebody who actually liked him.
To your point about Majerus...nobody could ever say Rick isn't genuine.
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The transfers sucked big time, no doubt about it. I guess I don't understand the comment of the team losing "badly" in the NCAAs. We had a last second shot to tie Alabama, not sure how that is losing badly. We lost in OT to Stanford on a last second shot. Lost to Tulsa with a last second shot to tie. The only "bad" loss was Michigan State with our best player in a cast. And yes, we lost badly to Kansas, of course it was also the Final Four, something we hadn't smelled in almost 30 years. I just don't understandt the comment about losing badly.
Fans, in general get spoiled and start to hate on the coach. At IU, many fans didn't like him. At KU, fans were bitching about Roy because he couldn't win it. Cowboys fans were bitching about Parcells. It's usually not until the guy is gone when you say he wasn't as bad as he was made out to be. Of course, that always depends on how successful the follow-up coach is. If he fails, then the memories of the hated coach warm over rather quickly. If he succeeds, then obviously not.
Chicos,
When I say losing badly, I'm not referring to the loss to Stanford or to Kansas (though Kansas was a terrible loss). Instead I'm referring to Michigan State, Tulsa (we had a good team that year and came out flat), and Alabama where we dug ourselves a 20 pt deficit in the first half. Beyond that, we played poorly in each of the post Wade BE or Conference USA tournaments until last year. Prior to last year, the only post season game we won since Wade left was against St. John's in 2007 and that was a terrible game. We also were lucky to survive in 2002 against Holy Cross and wouldn't have if not for Diener's heroics. If Diener didn't come through in that game, I wonder where Crean would be now.
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We also were lucky to survive in 2002 against Holy Cross and wouldn't have if not for Diener's heroics. If Diener didn't come through in that game, I wonder where Crean would be now.
That was 2003. The first round of the Final Four run. I always love statements like "If ________ hadn't _______ we would've won/lost the game." Well, ______ did _______. It was for Diener's heroics, and then we went to the Final Four. Not to mention that had we lost that game Wade would've stayed and we would've had the best backcourt in the country and a shot at winning the National Championship, so Crean may have been gone after the 2004 season to a higher profile job. If it weren't for Novak's heroics in the next round we also may have lost. And Wade's in the next two rounds. There's always a hero in a Final Four run who if you take away what they did you probably lost somewhere in there.
I also love the people who say "OMG MOVE ON FROM CREAN HE'S GONE!" And then make an argument. That's just causing the conversation to continue as someone will surely react to your statements.
Hilarious.
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I seriously doubt memories of Crean will ever "warm over." I'm still waiting to meet somebody who actually liked him.
To your point about Majerus...nobody could ever say Rick isn't genuine.
Majerus is a phony. One good example: for years he talked about the deep relationship he had with the Jesuits, but then his true colors come through when we learn that he's that he's a big fan of abortion.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_/ai_n11500783
Yet the only concrete example you cite as to Crean being a phony is that he invited Sheets & McCarthy to speak to MU players. But Majerus is genuine for inviting Orrin Hatch, Jon Hunstsman or George Karl. Explain that that one.
Say what you want about Crean--at least he didn't get his team put on NCAA probation .
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"A big fan of abortion." Nice.
If you'd like, I could provide you with endless instances of Crean being the most counterfeit, disingenious person ever associated with Marquette University, but I'm trying to "let it go."
By the way, it's not the speaking to players I found objectionable.
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"A big fan of abortion." Nice.
If you'd like, I could provide you with endless instances of Crean being the most counterfeit, disingenious person ever associated with Marquette University, but I'm trying to "let it go."
By the way, it's not the speaking to players I found objectionable.
Fess up or forever hold your peace.
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Talk is cheap, Red. Put up or shut up.
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He did well at MU and for MU, but he got paid handsomely for it and then worked his success into an incredible package at IU.
Let me get this straight, the guy got a good job, worked hard and performed well at said job, then used that performance to get a better job. What a dick.
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I don't recall that you've ever offered up exactly what Crean did to you that has you on a five+ year tirade. Can you share what you mean by "phony" or "prick".
Which people did he "use". What "act"? What is his "number."
I know guys who aren't as upset with their ex-wives after they got taken to the cleaners in a divorce as you are with Crean.
Since you're going to continue with these type of statements, could you share the details?
I'll give it a shot...
Tom Crean is married to Joanie Crean
Joanie Crean is related to Jim Harbaugh
Jim Harbaugh was a Chicago Bear (also a Green Bay Packer for you Bear's fans)
All Chicago Bears are phony, disingenuous egomaniacs!
Tom Crean = phony, disingenuous egomaniacs. Its simple math really.
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Fess up or forever hold your peace.
Co-sign.
Red is acting quite childish in this manner and all would be better served if you, and 4ever for that matter, let loose with what Tom Crean did to offend you. Once it's out, it can all be laid to rest.
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Majerus is a phony. One good example: for years he talked about the deep relationship he had with the Jesuits, but then his true colors come through when we learn that he's that he's a big fan of abortion.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_/ai_n11500783
I don't want to hijack a thread here but I feel compelled to raise two points.
One, I'm not sure I would characterize Majerus' view as being "a big fan of abortion."
Two, I don't think the two examples you raise are mutually exclusive. It is in fact possible to have a deep relationship with the Jesuits and be pro-choice.
Sorry, back to Crean bashing.
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All of this tanning stuff is ridiculous. The only thing that really matters in any profession that really matters is performance. Crean performed well, and if you can't set aside your personal issues for the success of the program then the problem isn't Crean, it's you.
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I seriously doubt memories of Crean will ever "warm over." I'm still waiting to meet somebody who actually liked him.
To your point about Majerus...nobody could ever say Rick isn't genuine.
I'm guessing a few folks that he's helped over the years at Children's Hospital, etc probably liked him. Plenty didn't. He gave us 9 good years, I hope the current one gives us 9 good years and at least as good results in the classroom, on the court, off the police blotter.
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Let me get this straight, the guy got a good job, worked hard and performed well at said job, then used that performance to get a better job. What a dick.
From that description, no, that person seems like a hard worker using success to move up the ladder. However, in this case, it was disgraceful how Crean stole off into that good night. He completely disrespected his players and did them the disservice of neglecting to notify them in person of his imminent departure. Why any of his recruits followed him is beyond me. It's akin to dating someone who's cheating on his/her SO and then leaves that person for you. What kind of credibility is that?
I am grateful for the time TC put into MU Bball and associated groups (CHOW is probably grateful, too, like you said). But as it's been said over and again, a great deal of that good was undone and forgotten by the ungainly fashion in which he took his leave.
Good riddance.
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From that description, no, that person seems like a hard worker using success to move up the ladder. However, in this case, it was disgraceful how Crean stole off into that good night. He completely disrespected his players and did them the disservice of neglecting to notify them in person of his imminent departure. Why any of his recruits followed him is beyond me. It's akin to dating someone who's cheating on his/her SO and then leaves that person for you. What kind of credibility is that?
I am grateful for the time TC put into MU Bball and associated groups (CHOW is probably grateful, too, like you said). But as it's been said over and again, a great deal of that good was undone and forgotten by the ungainly fashion in which he took his leave.
Good riddance.
The problem here is that most people here are looking at this with fan goggles on. My descripiton is accurate. Was the timing unfortunate? Sure, but that was hardly Crean's fault. Did he go about informing all concerned parties in the best way? No, but he hardly "stole off in the night." Coaches don't see their jobs the way fans do. They see them as jobs. That doesn't mean that they don't care about the kids or the program.
Your girlfriend comparison shows just how blindly irrational fans can be. You are comparing a job to a romantic relationship. You may have undying loyalty to one school like you would to one girlfriend but most coaches don't. That is just a fact and if you believe that most coaches wouldn't do what Crean did then you are incredibly naive.
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It is in fact possible to have a deep relationship with the Jesuits and be pro-choice.
Not as a Catholic.
Think of the punch in the gut his pro-abortion statement must have been to all those who taught him or worked with him or shared faith with him over the years.
When he signed on at SLU, he said: "I got a Jesuit education, and it has been terrific. Father Kelly, Father Schlimmer, Father Walsh, Father E. Corbert Walsh ... I mean I can go on and on because these guys have been part and parcel to my life." (emphasis added).
Part and parcel to his life? Hah! It wasn't even enough of his life to motivate him to keep his yap shut about violating one of the most fundamental teachings of the faith.
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I don't want to hijack a thread here but I feel compelled to raise two points.
One, I'm not sure I would characterize Majerus' view as being "a big fan of abortion."
Two, I don't think the two examples you raise are mutually exclusive. It is in fact possible to have a deep relationship with the Jesuits and be pro-choice.
Sorry, back to Crean bashing.
i was going to say the same thing
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Not as a Catholic.
Think of the punch in the gut his pro-abortion statement must have been to all those who taught him or worked with him or shared faith with him over the years.
When he signed on at SLU, he said: "I got a Jesuit education, and it has been terrific. Father Kelly, Father Schlimmer, Father Walsh, Father E. Corbert Walsh ... I mean I can go on and on because these guys have been part and parcel to my life." (emphasis added).
Part and parcel to his life? Hah! It wasn't even enough of his life to motivate him to keep his yap shut about violating one of the most fundamental teachings of the faith.
this is how threads get locked. i'm seeing right through the holes in this logic
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this is how threads get locked.
And I pray it does soon.
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Children's Hospital?!?! WHy? Because of Al's Run...an event that's been taking place for 20 years? Judas Priest...that's a perfect example. Marshalling that thing is practically a job requirement. Dukiet did it. O'Neill did it...I don't know about Deane. But Crean has zero to do with the success of that race.
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Majerus is a phony. One good example: for years he talked about the deep relationship he had with the Jesuits, but then his true colors come through when we learn that he's that he's a big fan of abortion.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4188/is_/ai_n11500783
Yet the only concrete example you cite as to Crean being a phony is that he invited Sheets & McCarthy to speak to MU players. But Majerus is genuine for inviting Orrin Hatch, Jon Hunstsman or George Karl. Explain that that one.
Say what you want about Crean--at least he didn't get his team put on NCAA probation .
I have close relationship with the Jesuits. I am also pro-choice, support gay rights, believe women should not be stoned for adultery, that having a tattoo is not a sin, working on Sunday is ok, it's fine to lend money to my friends, not just my family, and that eating bacon is not a sin.
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"What's the frequency, Kenneth?"
I think we need the pocket fishermen to reel this one in.
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Children's Hospital?!?! WHy? Because of Al's Run...an event that's been taking place for 20 years? Judas Priest...that's a perfect example. Marshalling that thing is practically a job requirement. Dukiet did it. O'Neill did it...I don't know about Deane. But Crean has zero to do with the success of that race.
People have asked you direct questions yet you never provide an answer but still feel it is appropriate to post in the thread even though you display a pathetic evasiveness.
In this situation, you are acting with cowardice. jmo.
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for once I agree w/ Nola. Crawl out of your hole and back up your babbling or shut it.
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That was 2003. The first round of the Final Four run. I always love statements like "If ________ hadn't _______ we would've won/lost the game." Well, ______ did _______. It was for Diener's heroics, and then we went to the Final Four. Not to mention that had we lost that game Wade would've stayed and we would've had the best backcourt in the country and a shot at winning the National Championship, so Crean may have been gone after the 2004 season to a higher profile job. If it weren't for Novak's heroics in the next round we also may have lost. And Wade's in the next two rounds. There's always a hero in a Final Four run who if you take away what they did you probably lost somewhere in there.
I also love the people who say "OMG MOVE ON FROM CREAN HE'S GONE!" And then make an argument. That's just causing the conversation to continue as someone will surely react to your statements.
Hilarious.
+1
I love this line of thought. That is the beauty of sports. That is why we watch and the ridiculous Diener is just like a thousand similar examples in other championship runs.
If it weren't for David Tyree's ridiculous catch...
If it weren't for Chalmer's last second shot...
If it weren't for the tuck rule...
And so on. The Crean bashing is getting ridiculous and those engaging in it will use anything to rationalize their irrational and misplaced anger.
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Children's Hospital?!?! WHy? Because of Al's Run...an event that's been taking place for 20 years? Judas Priest...that's a perfect example. Marshalling that thing is practically a job requirement. Dukiet did it. O'Neill did it...I don't know about Deane. But Crean has zero to do with the success of that race.
Uhm, no. Specifically some things he's done for some families and kids outside of the run. Nothing to do with the run at all. I know you'll find this hard to believe, but not everything is publicized in the paper, not every donation, etc. I'll leave it at that.
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From that description, no, that person seems like a hard worker using success to move up the ladder. However, in this case, it was disgraceful how Crean stole off into that good night. He completely disrespected his players and did them the disservice of neglecting to notify them in person of his imminent departure. Why any of his recruits followed him is beyond me.
His recruits, most of his coaching staff, his managers, etc. Maybe, there is more to the story then everyone was told. :-X
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You are DAMN RIGHT I make judgements on the character of men who use tanning parlors. ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY I do! Are you saying there are people who don't? I don't even believe that.
I'll go you one further, if you don't look at any male who uses a tanning bed with some level of suspicion, you judgement can only generously be called questionable.
I completely agree, Red. In fact, I'll add to this that I'm also suspicious of men with long hair and men who shave their heads, Men are supposed to have simple combover haircuts, and anything outside of that is simply too much vanity and shows that they have a big ego and a lack of judgment.
I also don't trust people who wear corduroys. They just seem unnatural.
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Anyone know if he's ponied up the soccer donation yet?
Just axing.
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Not as a Catholic.
Think of the punch in the gut his pro-abortion statement must have been to all those who taught him or worked with him or shared faith with him over the years.
When he signed on at SLU, he said: "I got a Jesuit education, and it has been terrific. Father Kelly, Father Schlimmer, Father Walsh, Father E. Corbert Walsh ... I mean I can go on and on because these guys have been part and parcel to my life." (emphasis added).
Part and parcel to his life? Hah! It wasn't even enough of his life to motivate him to keep his yap shut about violating one of the most fundamental teachings of the faith.
how sad that you have let that become the corner stone of your faith and all that you measure others by.