Kaepernick Gives Up

[mu03eng]

So if I disagree with Heisey on many things, I must therefore argue that every single thing he says is wrong?

No, you should just be consistent in your standards of what you accept to be true. Multiple times in other disagreements, especially around ratings, Heisey used discussions as evidence for his side of the argument. You rejected them as anecdotal or insufficient (show me polls not stories, etc). In this case however, you are willing to accept the story at face value because it confirms your side of the discussion.

I'm not calling you out for agreeing with Heisey on something, zero issue there. I'm calling you out for changing your "standard of evidence" in this case.

[#UnleashSean]

Appropriate time and place?

Well it did ruin the career of the white guy who came in 2nd.

[Pakuni]

No, you should just be consistent in your standards of what you accept to be true. Multiple times in other disagreements, especially around ratings, Heisey used discussions as evidence for his side of the argument. You rejected them as anecdotal or insufficient (show me polls not stories, etc). In this case however, you are willing to accept the story at face value because it confirms your side of the discussion.

I'm not calling you out for agreeing with Heisey on something, zero issue there. I'm calling you out for changing your "standard of evidence" in this case.

I hope you can understand the difference between an anecdote involving a handful of television viewers among millions of them, as opposed to an anecdote involving an NFL team among 32 of them.
That said, I wasn't citing Heisy's anecdote as "evidence," just pointing out that his source had the same outlook as I.

And yes, you are being catty.

[B. McBannerson]

Pete Carrol says he won't sign him because he is too good and should start?  And you believe this?  The QB is one play away from going down for the season, you sign the best players you can and if he is available, you sign him.  Carrol's comments do not pass the smell test at all.

I agree there is blackballing going on, and that happens when one is a marginal player, widely despised by fans for actions and comments.  If he was a great player, he would be playing.

If Bill Maher wasn't as productive he would be fired this week.  If Charlie Sheen were a more important star, he would be employed still.  There have always alway always been different standards and leniency for certain athletes, actors, politicians, celebs in society. 

[Spotcheck Billy]

Pete Carrol says he won't sign him because he is too good and should start?  And you believe this?  The QB is one play away from going down for the season, you sign the best players you can and if he is available, you sign him. Carrol's comments do not pass the smell test at all.
 

Except other than the Bears, I would bet many teams don't have cap room or the desire to sign a back-up QB to the $$$ Kap is accustomed to. Until we hear stories that Kap is willing to take the veterans minimum my guess is he's holding out for a starting job and pay.

[Lennys Tap]

Except I would bet many teams don't have cap room or the desire to sign a back-up QB to the $$$ Kap is accustomed to. Until we hear stories that Kap is willing to take the veterans minimum my guess is he's holding out for a starting job and pay.

Well, if Kap is indeed holding out for a starter's position and starter's $$$, one could make a solid argument that rather than being blackballed he's misreading his market.

[rocket surgeon]

I know it was sarcasm but in fairness to Gary he was drafted by the Bucks.

3rd round pick #16...someone must have leaked his anti-american stuff and they cut him?  or was it the mustard incident?

[Jockey]

Thank you for the compliment, and for the record I'm 100% ready to be wrong.....I'm usually wrong more than I'm not so it's something I've come to terms with 

Maybe I'm getting overly semantic, but when we throw around the term black ball, that evokes to me a conspiracy of all GMs and Coaches to keep Kaepernick from playing in the league and that is where I'm not ready to go. I have no doubt (rightly or wrongly) that some, if not all organizations within the NFL have chosen not to sign him to a contract because of the baggage that comes with him at this time. Where I think this talk of black balling goes to far is the idea that the NFL or the teams are collectively and intentionally keep him out of the league. Again, I'm prepared to be wrong but I just don't buy a conspiracy.

And as I've said before, there have been a number of "troublesome" or outspoken players that have remained in the league. Marcellus Bennett is a perfect example, he didn't show up at the White House because of Trump, he joined in the anthem protests and has some "controversial" opinions and yet he is welcomed with open arms into one of the more cautious or conservative organizations in the league.

Lastly, I have no doubt that Kaepernick's outspoken nature has impacted his standing in the league. Where I struggle how much of it is due to the flag protest itself and how much is "other stuff"

I guess maybe we don't disagree all that much and it is more of a matter of semantics. I don't see the blackballing in a "legal" sense or as some type of collusion, but rather just an accepted thing that all are going along with. My rant may have made it seem otherwise.

It's actually more like the Bill Maher bit "I don't know it for a fact.... I just know its true".

http://www.real-time-with-bill-maher-blog.com/index/2015/10/10/i-just-know-its-true

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMu29W4uIxo

[MUBurrow]

Drew Magary must read scoop - http://deadspin.com/the-nfl-machine-has-finally-beaten-colin-kaepernick-1795900410

Here's the bitch about activism - it seeking to normalize a message in the exact community that has already explicitly or implicitly rejected that message. The target of the message is also its opponent. Whether its race-based, anti-war, or any other message, the goal is to normalize and cause gradual acceptance in the face of the knowledge that the target audience will reject it at first blush, often dramatically.

The NFL dynamic is just a smaller sample size of that environment. I don't for a second doubt Mara's claim in that article is true - he probably did get dramatically more pissed off fan mail warning him not to sign Kap than he did about Josh Brown. But that's the damn problem, its not a legitimate reason to not sign Kap. The self-reinforcing feedback loop that's willing to use meaningless words like "distraction" to obfuscate the insanity of viewing Kap's crimes (whatever you determine those to actually be) as somehow worse than Josh Brown's, because - why exactly? Because Johnny in Queens called about it? Because Francesa ran his mouth about it?

[Jockey]

Drew Magary must read scoop - http://deadspin.com/the-nfl-machine-has-finally-beaten-colin-kaepernick-1795900410

Here's the bitch about activism - it seeking to normalize a message in the exact community that has already explicitly or implicitly rejected that message. The target of the message is also its opponent. Whether its race-based, anti-war, or any other message, the goal is to normalize and cause gradual acceptance in the face of the knowledge that the target audience will reject it at first blush, often dramatically.

The NFL dynamic is just a smaller sample size of that environment. I don't for a second doubt Mara's claim in that article is true - he probably did get dramatically more pissed off fan mail warning him not to sign Kap than he did about Josh Brown. But that's the damn problem, its not a legitimate reason to not sign Kap. The self-reinforcing feedback loop that's willing to use meaningless words like "distraction" to obfuscate the insanity of viewing Kap's crimes (whatever you determine those to actually be) as somehow worse than Josh Brown's, because - why exactly? Because Johnny in Queens called about it? Because Francesa ran his mouth about it?

Your first paragraph is particularly true, because, after all, the point is to change the minds of those who think differently. If the message is right, enough people will come around. Smoking, civil rights, and gay rights come immediately to mind.

I agree with the second paragraph as well. Fans (except for some of us and we know who we are ) are idiots. They spout off just for the sake of it. Look at every poll when any pro league has been on strike. People are disgusted and say they will no longer support the sport. Then a year or two later, new attendance records are set.

[MU82]

I don't know if "blackball" is the right term or not.

How I view it is that teams looking for QBs were afraid to sign a guy who would be a lightning rod for criticism. If he were good enough to be a star, a team or two might be willing to endure the backlash, but why endure it for a guy on the bench?

Even though the circumstances are different, there is some commonality with the Tebow situation in that teams didn't want to sign a guy who would always be at the center of media attention and fans demanding, "We want Tebow." If Tebow were good enough to actually play, you take him on; but to have a guy like that on your bench and face the public and/or media pressure to play him, who needed that?

CK is damaged goods because he's deemed too unpatriotic and not quite good enough to make a difference on the field; TT is damaged goods because he's a lethal combination of being a fan favorite but a really bad QB.

On a semi-related note ...

Pete Carroll, who had a reputation of being a straight-shooter once upon a time, has been telling quite a few fibs the last year or two, and this one about CK is a whopper.

[rocket surgeon]

  "I don't know if "blackball" is the right term or not."

    not sure if "blueballed" is any better though, hey-ouchie-heyn'a? 

[Skitch]

Except other than the Bears, I would bet many teams don't have cap room or the desire to sign a back-up QB to the $$$ Kap is accustomed to. Until we hear stories that Kap is willing to take the veterans minimum my guess is he's holding out for a starting job and pay.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/06/05/seahawks-kaepernick-arent-apart-on-money/

According to this, which Kap retweeted, they were in agreement on money. Can't remember who it was but on Lebatard's radio show yesterday they said he's looking for around  $3 million. 

Something they did bring up though is that Kap could divide the locker room but not in the way you think. With the issues some players (Sherman & Bennett mostly) have with Russell Wilson they may start clamoring for Kap to be starting and cause even more drama.