Wisconsin

[Skatastrophy]

That's not my point.  Rural health care in WI is a huge problem. Covid is making it worse.  But the shortages have been bad for years.

I didn't say anything about your friend or her choice to help out.

Chiming in, I didn't think you were taking a shot. Just my $0.02

That's not just a WI problem. Rural healthcare is bad nationwide.

[GooooMarquette]

Chiming in, I didn't think you were taking a shot. Just my $0.02

That's not just a WI problem. Rural healthcare is bad nationwide.

Agreed.

This particular problem wasn't a headline in the first couple of waves, because the surges occurred (mostly) in more populated places like Seattle, the NYC metro, Houston, Miami, etc. Now, less populated areas are seeing surges - with the Dakotas, Iowa, and Northern WI in the vanguard - and rural healthcare shortages are compounding an already horrible pandemic.

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

Double post

[Plaque Lives Matter!]

It is not profitable. Guy in my office space founded a startup to create networks of rural health care throughout the state. It is not an easy task. Lots of specialty clinicians needed like for diabetes, agricultural borne maladies, and other ailments common away from metropolitan areas.

[GooooMarquette]

If numbers matter to anyone here anymore...WI has now surpassed 200,000 total cases, only the 12th state to get there. All the states above them have larger populations, most considerably larger.

In cases per capita, WI has hit the top 10, where it sits in bleak company with Iowa, the Dakotas, and most of the sunbelt.

The pandemic sucks everywhere, but WI is distinguishing itself in rather unfortunate ways.

[Billy Hoyle]

That's not my point.  Rural health care in WI is a huge problem. Covid is making it worse.  But the shortages have been bad for years.

I didn't say anything about your friend or her choice to help out.

Got it. Thanks for clarifying and I apologize for an overreaction.

To clarify, she's not volunteering to go, she's being told to. She's going to a place where a majority of the citizens support the candidate who says about the numbers of deaths "it is what it is.'

You make an excellent point about rural health care. When my dad finished his residency over 40 years ago he was offered federal incentives in the form of loan forgiveness to relocate to a small rural town and join a newly established practice of three other GP's taking advantage of the same program. I don't know if there are similar programs in existence today but it would likely help alleviate the shortages for care were seeing in rural areas. Of course, it doesn't help in terms of facilities but it's a start.

[Uncle Rico]

If numbers matter to anyone here anymore...WI has now surpassed 200,000 total cases, only the 12th state to get there. All the states above them have larger populations, most considerably larger.

In cases per capita, WI has hit the top 10, where it sits in bleak company with Iowa, the Dakotas, and most of the sunbelt.

The pandemic sucks everywhere, but WI is distinguishing itself in rather unfortunate ways.

Our drinking culture bears a lot of the blame.  I have no numbers or facts to back that.  Just a humble opinion

[pacearrow02]

If numbers matter to anyone here anymore...WI has now surpassed 200,000 total cases, only the 12th state to get there. All the states above them have larger populations, most considerably larger.

In cases per capita, WI has hit the top 10, where it sits in bleak company with Iowa, the Dakotas, and most of the sunbelt.

The pandemic sucks everywhere, but WI is distinguishing itself in rather unfortunate ways.

Surprised you left out the category of deaths per million being that we remain one of the best at protecting the most vulnerable and our health system seems to be one of the best in the country and managing the ones who get hit the hardest. 

[Billy Hoyle]

Our drinking culture bears a lot of the blame.  I have no numbers or facts to back that.  Just a humble opinion

Lots of places have drinking cultures, but the blame lies squarely on the Legislature and partisan judiciary that has acquiesced to the Tavern League to suspend any indoor capacity limits and spread the word that COVID isn't as bad at it is. One can have a drinking culture but if there's no place to go then there wouldn't be the ability to spread.

[Uncle Rico]

Lots of places have drinking cultures, but the blame lies squarely on the Legislature and partisan judiciary that has acquiesced to the Tavern League to suspend any indoor capacity limits and spread the word that COVID isn't as bad at it is. One can have a drinking culture but if there's no place to go then there wouldn't be the ability to spread.

It’s a combination of it all, for sure.

[GooooMarquette]

Surprised you left out the category of deaths per million being that we remain one of the best at protecting the most vulnerable and our health system seems to be one of the best in the country and managing the ones who get hit the hardest.

You are not surprised, because I have explained this to you before. Wisconsin's death rate is (currently) lower because its first big peak came later than the peaks in many other places. If you look at the death rates, you can easily separate them based on when the peak hit.

That said, Wisconsin's death rate is projected to increase dramatically over the coming months.

But you knew all that.

Lecturing aside, I will agree with you on one thing: the doctors and other healthcare providers in Wisconsin are excellent. I count many close friends and family members among them, and agree that we owe our frontline healthcare workers a huge debt of gratitude for their work during this pandemic. 👍

[Jockey]

Effort to recall Evers has failed.

No surprise.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Our drinking culture bears a lot of the blame.  I have no numbers or facts to back that.  Just a humble opinion

Dane Co data says otherwise, at least for the last month:

https://www.publichealthmdc.com/blog/understanding-clusters

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Got it. Thanks for clarifying and I apologize for an overreaction.

To clarify, she's not volunteering to go, she's being told to. She's going to a place where a majority of the citizens support the candidate who says about the numbers of deaths "it is what it is.'

You make an excellent point about rural health care. When my dad finished his residency over 40 years ago he was offered federal incentives in the form of loan forgiveness to relocate to a small rural town and join a newly established practice of three other GP's taking advantage of the same program. I don't know if there are similar programs in existence today but it would likely help alleviate the shortages for care were seeing in rural areas. Of course, it doesn't help in terms of facilities but it's a start.

On the flip side, advances in tele-medicine or zoom-medicine will help out with a lot of health issues in rural areas.  Not a substitute for a primary care doc, a dentist, or any other hands on care.   But any visits that can be done not face to face will be an improvement.

[GooooMarquette]

On the flip side, advances in tele-medicine or zoom-medicine will help out with a lot of health issues in rural areas.  Not a substitute for a primary care doc, a dentist, or any other hands on care.   But any visits that can be done not face to face will be an improvement.

Yep. Between the advances in communication and diagnostic technology that can be used by laypeople, rural areas will become much better served as time goes by. We will still need more rural care providers, but the technology will help.

Covid is also forcing insurance companies to reassess what they will pay for via telemedicine, so hopefully reimbursement will keep up with the provision of care.

[pacearrow02]

You are not surprised, because I have explained this to you before. Wisconsin's death rate is (currently) lower because its first big peak came later than the peaks in many other places. If you look at the death rates, you can easily separate them based on when the peak hit.

That said, Wisconsin's death rate is projected to increase dramatically over the coming months.

But you knew all that.

Lecturing aside, I will agree with you on one thing: the doctors and other healthcare providers in Wisconsin are excellent. I count many close friends and family members among them, and agree that we owe our frontline healthcare workers a huge debt of gratitude for their work during this pandemic. 👍

You keep saying that but by beginning of April we had 3x’s the number of infections compared to Minnesota so not sure what you consider “early” but our case counts were higher then Minnesota’s from day 1.  Which isn’t something to necessarily brag about but your argument that Minnesota got hit earlier then Wisconsin is inaccurate.  But please by all means continue with the lecture.

[jesmu84]

I might have an unpopular opinion.

If you have a behavior or habit that contributes to you getting a disease/illness/ailment, your insurance shouldn't cover your treatment or should cover significantly less than the rest of the insured pool.

For example - smokers, poor eating habits, drug users, big-time drinkers, etc.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I might have an unpopular opinion.

If you have a behavior or habit that contributes to you getting a disease/illness/ailment, your insurance shouldn't cover your treatment or should cover significantly less than the rest of the insured pool.

For example - smokers, poor eating habits, drug users, big-time drinkers, etc.

Everyone has bad habits.  Everyone gets sick from something.  While for many people you can connect one with the other, you can't with many others.

It's completely unworkable.

[jesmu84]

Everyone has bad habits.  Everyone gets sick from something.  While for many people you can connect one with the other, you can't with many others.

It's completely unworkable.

I know all of this.

And I hate that I still have the opinion.

[pacearrow02]

I might have an unpopular opinion.

If you have a behavior or habit that contributes to you getting a disease/illness/ailment, your insurance shouldn't cover your treatment or should cover significantly less than the rest of the insured pool.

For example - smokers, poor eating habits, drug users, big-time drinkers, etc.

You play football and have injuries from that or any other sport, forget it not covered.  You enjoy a little vitamin d but get skin cancer, that’s on you buddy!  That’s one of the silliest ideas I’ve ever heard here on a board with a lot of silly ideas.

[GooooMarquette]

You keep saying that but by beginning of April we had 3x’s the number of infections compared to Minnesota so not sure what you consider “early” but our case counts were higher then Minnesota’s from day 1.  Which isn’t something to necessarily brag about but your argument that Minnesota got hit earlier then Wisconsin is inaccurate.  But please by all means continue with the lecture.

My posts today said nothing about Minnesota. But if you want to revisit that argument, fine. You said Wisconsin’s “case counts were higher than Minnesota’s from day 1.” Here are some actual numbers:

On June 1, Minnesota had 27,076 confirmed cases. Wisconsin had 18,543 (31% FEWER than MN).

On July 1, Minnesota had 38,945 confirmed cases. Wisconsin had 29,199 (25% FEWER than MN).

As of today, Minnesota has 135,372 confirmed cases, Wisconsin has 201,049 (49% MORE than MN).

Want to reconsider your comment that Wisconsin’s cases were higher from day one?

Facts matter.

[Pakuni]

I might have an unpopular opinion.

If you have a behavior or habit that contributes to you getting a disease/illness/ailment, your insurance shouldn't cover your treatment or should cover significantly less than the rest of the insured pool.

For example - smokers, poor eating habits, drug users, big-time drinkers, etc.

Who determines what's a bad habit?
Is not exercising at least 30 minutes a day a bad habit?
Where do you draw the line between healthy and unhealthy eating? Once scoop of ice cream is hunky dore, two makes you a glutton?
Where does a social drinker end and a big-time drinker begin?
What if you're a drug addict because your doctor pumped you full of OxyContin after Purdue insisted it wasn't habit-forming?
When is being overweight the result of bad decisions vs bad genes?
I just don't see any way this just wouldn't lead to insurance companies to arbitrarily deny coverage. Which they do enough already. This would just give them more latitude.

[GooooMarquette]

I might have an unpopular opinion.

If you have a behavior or habit that contributes to you getting a disease/illness/ailment, your insurance shouldn't cover your treatment or should cover significantly less than the rest of the insured pool.

For example - smokers, poor eating habits, drug users, big-time drinkers, etc.

Years ago, I used to feel this way as well. But time has taught me that not all of our actions are as voluntary or easy to change as we would like to think. Unconscious memories, thoughts and feelings are powerful.

Even if we get past the humanistic/psychological argument, I just don’t see how this could be applied. I don’t smoke, almost never drink, exercise every single day and maintain a healthy weight. I never text and drive. Still, I probably don’t wear sunscreen as often as I should. And I often get impatient and drive faster than I should. Does that mean that I should pay more for my health insurance because I might get skin cancer? Or into a car accident? Do I get offsetting discounts for not smoking, rarely drinking, eating a healthy diet and maintaining a healthy weight? Do I have to pay more next year if I gain 15 pounds?

Insurance companies already make money too big of a factor in the healthcare system. Opening up this Pandora’s box would give them opportunities to arbitrarily raise policies in ways that most could never possibly untangle.

[pacearrow02]

My posts today said nothing about Minnesota. But if you want to revisit that argument, fine. You said Wisconsin’s “case counts were higher than Minnesota’s from day 1.” Here are some actual numbers:

On June 1, Minnesota had 27,076 confirmed cases. Wisconsin had 18,543 (31% FEWER than MN).

On July 1, Minnesota had 38,945 confirmed cases. Wisconsin had 29,199 (25% FEWER than MN).

As of today, Minnesota has 135,372 confirmed cases, Wisconsin has 201,049 (49% MORE than MN).

Want to reconsider your comment that Wisconsin’s cases were higher from day one?

Facts matter.

From day 1 was wrong, should have went through the 8 months worth of comparative data more closely.  The reason I compared it to Minnesota was because you made a comment on how you’ve already explained this to me (only other time I discussed it with you was in reference to Wisconsin & Minnesota) and you argued then you got hit harder early which is why you have so many more deaths then Wisco does.  Which as the data shows just doesn’t hold up, unless the summer months are considered early I guess.

[jesmu84]

Like I said, unpopular.

And, nearly impossible to judge/enforce.

Though I assume anyone who doesn't like my opinion is also against car insurance companies raising rates for drivers who get in frequent accidents?