The War in Ukraine

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I love the 80's nostalgia.  In homage to Red Dawn, Ukrainians have been painting WOLVERINES on dead Russian tanks.

I fear the Wagner Group is a lot harsher than the Cubans

[pbiflyer]

I love the 80's nostalgia.  In homage to Red Dawn, Ukrainians have been painting WOLVERINES on dead Russian tanks.

[jesmu84]

No fly zone?

https://youtu.be/ZJv4rBT6Nl8

[forgetful]

Watching the news, there was back to back stories on:

1) Ukraine detaining the leader of an opposition party that is sympathetic to Russia. Charging him with treason and trying to do a prisoner swap. Story, told in a favorable way on how Ukraine is cracking down on Russian sympathizers.

2) Russia detaining a Putin opposition leader. Told from the perspective of how Russia is evil and refuses to allow dissent.

Not sure I can take the news seriously a lot of the time anymore. If one is wrong, so is the other. Do these types of things bother anyone else?

My opinion, is both are wrong. Dissent and opposition should be allowed, as long as it sticks to speech and official political discourse.

[jesmu84]

Watching the news, there was back to back stories on:

1) Ukraine detaining the leader of an opposition party that is sympathetic to Russia. Charging him with treason and trying to do a prisoner swap. Story, told in a favorable way on how Ukraine is cracking down on Russian sympathizers.

2) Russia detaining a Putin opposition leader. Told from the perspective of how Russia is evil and refuses to allow dissent.

Not sure I can take the news seriously a lot of the time anymore. If one is wrong, so is the other. Do these types of things bother anyone else?

My opinion, is both are wrong. Dissent and opposition should be allowed, as long as it sticks to speech and official political discourse.

That's not news. That's propaganda.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Whoa, Ukraine has sunk the flagship of the Russian Black Sea fleet.

Rob Lee
@RALee85
A Russian source is saying the Moskva has sunk and that the explosion was from a Ukrainian Neptun missile strike. Apparently, Ukraine flew a TB2 UCAV to distract the ship while it was targeted by the Neptun. The ship rolled onto its side after the strike.

Russia’s Black Sea flagship burns ‘after missile strike’
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russia-black-sea-flagship-burns-ukraine-missile-strike-xp5lfxk6c

[pbiflyer]

Whoa, Ukraine has sunk the flagship of the Russian Black Sea fleet.

Rob Lee
@RALee85
A Russian source is saying the Moskva has sunk and that the explosion was from a Ukrainian Neptun missile strike. Apparently, Ukraine flew a TB2 UCAV to distract the ship while it was targeted by the Neptun. The ship rolled onto its side after the strike.

Russia’s Black Sea flagship burns ‘after missile strike’

.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/russia-black-sea-flagship-burns-ukraine-missile-strike-xp5lfxk6c

At first they came for the yachts, and the cruisers said nothing..

[dgies9156]

Watching the news, there was back to back stories on:

1) Ukraine detaining the leader of an opposition party that is sympathetic to Russia. Charging him with treason and trying to do a prisoner swap. Story, told in a favorable way on how Ukraine is cracking down on Russian sympathizers.

2) Russia detaining a Putin opposition leader. Told from the perspective of how Russia is evil and refuses to allow dissent.

Not sure I can take the news seriously a lot of the time anymore. If one is wrong, so is the other. Do these types of things bother anyone else?

My opinion, is both are wrong. Dissent and opposition should be allowed, as long as it sticks to speech and official political discourse.

My problem with this kind of reporting is it's lazy, backward looking and fails to inform. The American public is being cheated because too many reporters can't and won't do their job.

Putin invasion is evil There is no doubt. But it is important to understand the Russian perspective and why they did it. Not to condone them but only through understanding does one get a vision to get out of the mess we're in.

My travels in Ukraine and Belarus years ago taught me one thing -- the average American had no clue of what the other side was thinking, or why. If you look at Russia, you see a country that has been invaded, destroyed and rebuilt more times than any of us ever can imagine. In the Great Patriotic War from 1941 until 1945, cities of 500,000 persons were left with one or two buildings standing. Millions of people were killed for no other reason than the Nazis needed living space. Or, because they thought ill of the Jews.

Out of this came a collective paranoia that led to the occupation of much of Eastern Europe and huge military budgets that prevented reconstruction and investment in the civilian economy. Day to day living took a back seat to ensuring the Motherland was protected The bogeyman in this clash between good and evil was the United States.

Fast forward to today. Many of the old eastern bloc, including Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia are now members of NATO. Ukraine, which many in Russia see as part of Russia, has bellied up to the west and is trying to make passionate love to free market economies. Russia reacted the same way the United States did beginning in 1959 when Fidel Castro's Communist revolution gained control of Cuba. They invaded. The Russians were just more committed to Ukraine than the Kennedy Administration was to Cuba.

It's immaterial that Ukraine is corrupt and would be more so under Russian domination.

The takeaway: think like a paranoid Russian. The guy in charge is not a nut. He's genuinely concerned about the same thing 10 previous generations of Russian leaders have been afraid of -- invasion of the Motherland. It's why in the late 1990s, Belarusian troops were STILL guarding bridges against an American invasion.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

My problem with this kind of reporting is it's lazy, backward looking and fails to inform. The American public is being cheated because too many reporters can't and won't do their job.

Putin invasion is evil There is no doubt. But it is important to understand the Russian perspective and why they did it. Not to condone them but only through understanding does one get a vision to get out of the mess we're in.

My travels in Ukraine and Belarus years ago taught me one thing -- the average American had no clue of what the other side was thinking, or why. If you look at Russia, you see a country that has been invaded, destroyed and rebuilt more times than any of us ever can imagine. In the Great Patriotic War from 1941 until 1945, cities of 500,000 persons were left with one or two buildings standing. Millions of people were killed for no other reason than the Nazis needed living space. Or, because they thought ill of the Jews.

Out of this came a collective paranoia that led to the occupation of much of Eastern Europe and huge military budgets that prevented reconstruction and investment in the civilian economy. Day to day living took a back seat to ensuring the Motherland was protected The bogeyman in this clash between good and evil was the United States.

Fast forward to today. Many of the old eastern bloc, including Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia are now members of NATO. Ukraine, which many in Russia see as part of Russia, has bellied up to the west and is trying to make passionate love to free market economies. Russia reacted the same way the United States did beginning in 1959 when Fidel Castro's Communist revolution gained control of Cuba. They invaded. The Russians were just more committed to Ukraine than the Kennedy Administration was to Cuba.

It's immaterial that Ukraine is corrupt and would be more so under Russian domination.

The takeaway: think like a paranoid Russian. The guy in charge is not a nut. He's genuinely concerned about the same thing 10 previous generations of Russian leaders have been afraid of -- invasion of the Motherland. It's why in the late 1990s, Belarusian troops were STILL guarding bridges against an American invasion.

I don't think anyone disputes any of this so I have no idea why you said the bolded.

[Hards Alumni]

My problem with this kind of reporting is it's lazy, backward looking and fails to inform. The American public is being cheated because too many reporters can't and won't do their job.

Putin invasion is evil There is no doubt. But it is important to understand the Russian perspective and why they did it. Not to condone them but only through understanding does one get a vision to get out of the mess we're in.

My travels in Ukraine and Belarus years ago taught me one thing -- the average American had no clue of what the other side was thinking, or why. If you look at Russia, you see a country that has been invaded, destroyed and rebuilt more times than any of us ever can imagine. In the Great Patriotic War from 1941 until 1945, cities of 500,000 persons were left with one or two buildings standing. Millions of people were killed for no other reason than the Nazis needed living space. Or, because they thought ill of the Jews.

Out of this came a collective paranoia that led to the occupation of much of Eastern Europe and huge military budgets that prevented reconstruction and investment in the civilian economy. Day to day living took a back seat to ensuring the Motherland was protected The bogeyman in this clash between good and evil was the United States.

Fast forward to today. Many of the old eastern bloc, including Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia are now members of NATO. Ukraine, which many in Russia see as part of Russia, has bellied up to the west and is trying to make passionate love to free market economies. Russia reacted the same way the United States did beginning in 1959 when Fidel Castro's Communist revolution gained control of Cuba. They invaded. The Russians were just more committed to Ukraine than the Kennedy Administration was to Cuba.

It's immaterial that Ukraine is corrupt and would be more so under Russian domination.

The takeaway: think like a paranoid Russian. The guy in charge is not a nut. He's genuinely concerned about the same thing 10 previous generations of Russian leaders have been afraid of -- invasion of the Motherland. It's why in the late 1990s, Belarusian troops were STILL guarding bridges against an American invasion.

Putin isn't concerned with an actual invasion of Russia, and if he is that is completely irrational.  He sees what the world sees.  Russian identity and culture is collapsing.  Losing the entirety of Eastern Europe to Western European culture is unacceptable... mostly because he understand that the creep will continue into Russia itself. 

[Scoop Snoop]

My problem with this kind of reporting is it's lazy, backward looking and fails to inform. The American public is being cheated because too many reporters can't and won't do their job.

Putin invasion is evil There is no doubt. But it is important to understand the Russian perspective and why they did it. Not to condone them but only through understanding does one get a vision to get out of the mess we're in.

My travels in Ukraine and Belarus years ago taught me one thing -- the average American had no clue of what the other side was thinking, or why. If you look at Russia, you see a country that has been invaded, destroyed and rebuilt more times than any of us ever can imagine. In the Great Patriotic War from 1941 until 1945, cities of 500,000 persons were left with one or two buildings standing. Millions of people were killed for no other reason than the Nazis needed living space. Or, because they thought ill of the Jews.

Out of this came a collective paranoia that led to the occupation of much of Eastern Europe and huge military budgets that prevented reconstruction and investment in the civilian economy. Day to day living took a back seat to ensuring the Motherland was protected The bogeyman in this clash between good and evil was the United States.

Fast forward to today. Many of the old eastern bloc, including Poland, Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia are now members of NATO. Ukraine, which many in Russia see as part of Russia, has bellied up to the west and is trying to make passionate love to free market economies. Russia reacted the same way the United States did beginning in 1959 when Fidel Castro's Communist revolution gained control of Cuba. They invaded. The Russians were just more committed to Ukraine than the Kennedy Administration was to Cuba.

It's immaterial that Ukraine is corrupt and would be more so under Russian domination.

The takeaway: think like a paranoid Russian. The guy in charge is not a nut. He's genuinely concerned about the same thing 10 previous generations of Russian leaders have been afraid of -- invasion of the Motherland. It's why in the late 1990s, Belarusian troops were STILL guarding bridges against an American invasion.

It's more than paranoia. It's a finely tuned system to blame outside forces, especially the US, for your failures as a country in terms of building an economy and a free society in which your citizens' lives improve. If the estimates are correct, Russia has an economy that is about 14% the size of the US, and a large part of that is oil and gas rather than manufacturing and services. The invasion of Russia by the Western countries after the USSR dissolved was an economic one as Russia was welcomed into joining in the benefits of a free economy and establishing ties with Europe and the US. Instead, thirty two years after the USSR was dissolved, Putin is dreaming of reviving the Russian Empire, starting with a transparent demand that NATO retreat to it's 1997 borders.

Warsaw Poland was razed by the Nazis as the Russians, who promised to help the Poles, watched from a safe distance. The Russians murdered 15,000-20,000 Polish officers at Katyn forest. Much of Europe was destroyed in WW11, and Russia forgot to leave Eastern Europe. Yet Western Europe recovered and thrived, as did Eastern Europe after the USSR finally withdrew. I see no reason that the Russians deserve any "understanding". I am sure that they have many mirrors and all they have to do to see where their problems are is to look straight into them.   

 

 

[Uncle Rico]

It's more than paranoia. It's a finely tuned system to blame outside forces, especially the US, for your failures as a country in terms of building an economy and a free society in which your citizens' lives improve. If the estimates are correct, Russia has an economy that is about 14% the size of the US, and a large part of that is oil and gas rather than manufacturing and services. The invasion of Russia by the Western countries after the USSR dissolved was an economic one as Russia was welcomed into joining in the benefits of a free economy and establishing ties with Europe and the US. Instead, thirty two years after the USSR was dissolved, Putin is dreaming of reviving the Russian Empire, starting with a transparent demand that NATO retreat to it's 1997 borders.

Warsaw Poland was razed by the Nazis as the Russians, who promised to help the Poles, watched from a safe distance. The Russians murdered 15,000-20,000 Polish officers at Katyn forest. Much of Europe was destroyed in WW11, and Russia forgot to leave Eastern Europe. Yet Western Europe recovered and thrived, as did Eastern Europe after the USSR finally withdrew. I see no reason that the Russians deserve any "understanding". I am sure that they have many mirrors and all they have to do to see where their problems are is to look straight into them.

The fight for the Russian soul has always been a battle of Asiatic versus Western Society, dating back to the revolution of 1917. 

The mass of Russian society just wants to be left alone to rule over itself.  I’m not sure there is anyway to truly unite the Russian people without exterior threats, real or imagined

[Spaniel with a Short Tail]

It's more than paranoia. It's a finely tuned system to blame outside forces, especially the US, for your failures as a country in terms of building an economy and a free society in which your citizens' lives improve. If the estimates are correct, Russia has an economy that is about 14% the size of the US, and a large part of that is oil and gas rather than manufacturing and services. The invasion of Russia by the Western countries after the USSR dissolved was an economic one as Russia was welcomed into joining in the benefits of a free economy and establishing ties with Europe and the US. Instead, thirty two years after the USSR was dissolved, Putin is dreaming of reviving the Russian Empire, starting with a transparent demand that NATO retreat to it's 1997 borders.

Warsaw Poland was razed by the Nazis as the Russians, who promised to help the Poles, watched from a safe distance. The Russians murdered 15,000-20,000 Polish officers at Katyn forest. Much of Europe was destroyed in WW11, and Russia forgot to leave Eastern Europe. Yet Western Europe recovered and thrived, as did Eastern Europe after the USSR finally withdrew. I see no reason that the Russians deserve any "understanding". I am sure that they have many mirrors and all they have to do to see where their problems are is to look straight into them.

Yesterday was the Katyn Forest day of remembrance. There is an incredibly graphic memorial in Jersey City that is worth a visit if you are in the area.

https://katyn.org.au/

[Scoop Snoop]

The fight for the Russian soul has always been a battle of Asiatic versus Western Society, dating back to the revolution of 1917. 

The mass of Russian society just wants to be left alone to rule over itself.  I’m not sure there is anyway to truly unite the Russian people without exterior threats, real or imagined

They have had a centuries long history of insisting upon ruling over their neighbors, often being the invader rather than the "invadee". Now if they would just leave other countries to "rule over (themselves)", we would not be where we are today. They are hardly letting Ukraine "rule over itself" and did not allow their satellite countries rule over themselves during the 45 year long occupation. Regarding the "mass of Russian society" - they seem to overwhelmingly support Putin. It's possible that this support is not as deep as reported and the total control over the media that has been imposed is clearly a factor. Lastly, Russia straddles Europe and Asia. Both before and after the revolution, their soul had roots in both. 

I'm usually in agreement with you on bball matters, but really disagree with this post.

[Uncle Rico]

They have had a centuries long history of insisting upon ruling over their neighbors, often being the invader rather than the "invadee". Now if they would just leave other countries to "rule over (themselves)", we would not be where we are today. They are hardly letting Ukraine "rule over itself" and did not allow their satellite countries rule over themselves during the 45 year long occupation. Regarding the "mass of Russian society" - they seem to overwhelmingly support Putin. It's possible that this support is not as deep as reported and the total control over the media that has been imposed is clearly a factor. Lastly, Russia straddles Europe and Asia. Both before and after the revolution, their soul had roots in both. 

I'm usually in agreement with you on bball matters, but really disagree with this post.

Russian Autocrats have certainly done what you say.  The average Russian is beholden to the autocrat, sadly.  I finished reading “ A People’s Tragedy” about the Russian Revolution and recommend it because it still holds true about some of its conclusions about modern Russian society.

[Scoop Snoop]

Russian Autocrats have certainly done what you say.  The average Russian is beholden to the autocrat, sadly.  I finished reading “ A People’s Tragedy” about the Russian Revolution and recommend it because it still holds true about some of its conclusions about modern Russian society.

Thanks for mentioning the book. I've read so many history books over the decades, especially about American and European 20th century history and will need to read this one. I taught 8th grade my first year out of Marquette (my sole teaching year) and remember posting a picture of a large, tightly wound spiral on the wall to represent history. I told my students to think of history as a continuum, not simply an enumeration of isolated events. I loved messing with their minds, pushing them to think things through and challenging them. One assignment was to come up with ideas on whether the Civil War could have been avoided, and if so, how? One girl started out her assignment with "If I was Lincoln, I would have just freaked out!"

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Warsaw Poland was razed by the Nazis as the Russians, who promised to help the Poles, watched from a safe distance. The Russians murdered 15,000-20,000 Polish officers at Katyn forest. Much of Europe was destroyed in WW11, and Russia forgot to leave Eastern Europe. Yet Western Europe recovered and thrived, as did Eastern Europe after the USSR finally withdrew. I see no reason that the Russians deserve any "understanding". I am sure that they have many mirrors and all they have to do to see where their problems are is to look straight into them.

The Push saying "Is waiting around like the Russians on the banks of the Vistula "

[MU82]

Russian propagandists are simply mimicking what Fox News is saying.

[NCMUFan]

This is the Man! 
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/malcolm-nance-leaves-msnbc-join-foreign-legion-fighting-ukraine-im-done-talking-062420157.html

[Jockey]

Russian propagandists are simply mimicking what Fox News is saying.

.


And vice versa.

[tower912]

This is the Man! 
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/malcolm-nance-leaves-msnbc-join-foreign-legion-fighting-ukraine-im-done-talking-062420157.html

Based on his history, his books, his work as a contributor various places, about as surprising as Garcia ending up a Gopher.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Hmmmmm. The U.S. "clarified" that we only sent plane parts, but someone may be contributing whole planes.

The Ukrainian Air Force Just Got Bigger. It Seems Someone Gave Kyiv More MiG-29s.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidaxe/2022/04/19/the-ukrainian-air-force-just-got-bigger-it-seems-someone-gave-kyiv-more-mig-29s/?sh=456ee67b3c8b

"Kyiv’s air force has “more operable fighter aircraft than they had two weeks ago,” Kirby told reporters Tuesday.

Donations of airplanes, and airplane parts, made it possible. “I would just say, without getting into what other nations are providing, that they have received additional platforms and parts to be able to increase their fleet size,” Kirby said.

It’s not hard to guess what Kirby was referring to. The governments of Bulgaria, Poland and Slovakia weeks ago all signaled some degree of willingness to transfer to Ukraine old MiG-29s or spares for the same.

In 54 days, the Russians shot down no fewer than 15 Ukrainian jets that analysts visually can confirm. That verified total includes four MiG-29s. Actual losses undoubtedly are higher.

Shoot-downs don’t tell the whole story, of course. Russian forces also have attacked support facilities. On March 18, Russian cruise missiles damaged the State Aircraft Repair Plant in Lviv, in western Ukraine. That facility overhauls MiG-29s.

More vexing for the Ukrainians is the pilot problem. Kyiv clearly could source used fighters with just a few weeks of determined diplomacy. But it takes months to retrain formerly inactive pilots—and years to train up new ones.

Ukraine had too few MiG-29 pilots before they started dying in battle with the Russians. The shortfall surely is worse today."

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Here is a way you can contribute to Ukraine directly.

Ukraine Selling 'Russian Warship, Go F*** Yourself' Stamp
https://www.marinelink.com/news/ukraine-selling-russian-warship-go-f-496012

"Ukraine's national postal service Ukrposhta said it had been hit by a cyberattack on Friday after sales of a postage stamp depicting a Ukrainian soldier making a crude gesture to a Russian warship went online.

Queues formed to buy the stamp when it went on sale at the postal headquarters in Kyiv last week following the sinking of the flagship of Russia's Black Sea fleet. Kyiv said it had hit the cruiser Moskva with missiles. Russia said the ship sank while being towed in stormy seas after a fire caused by an explosion of ammunition."

[Jockey]

How many assassinations of oligarchs does Putin get before they organize to overthrow him.

The reason these people support Putin is because they are allowed to plunder at will - not necessarily because they agree with him. Is sacking the Russian populace enough of a reward if you’re not sure you are going to survive?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Neurological issues may get him before the oligarchs do.
https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1518024361223110656