MLB 2016

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Long ways to go, but a slow burn of a narrative has potential to play itself out...

The player that might cost the Cubs the World Series isn't even on their playoff roster.

Did the Cubs make a gigantic mistake in not trading Schwarber for Miller?

This will be interesting to see play out, as the Tribe inch closer to winning the pennant and as the Cubs remaining season unfolds.

No, as amazing as Miller is, the Cubs did not make a mistake in not trading Schwarber for him, in my opinion. 

I've been stunned with Cleveland's dominance so far.  Aside from Kluber and the back end of their pen, their starting pitching does not scare me with Salazar and Carrasco out.  I'd love to face Josh Tomlin. 

[🏀]

I think Toronto gave up this series, Cleveland hasn't taken it.

[Lennys Tap]

I think Toronto gave up this series, Cleveland hasn't taken it.

Because they couldn't do anything with Kluber, Miller, Tomlin, Allen and the rest of the Indian's bullpen? Cleveland's decimated pitching staff gets big credit from me.

[StillAWarrior]

I think Toronto gave up this series, Cleveland hasn't taken it.

You may be right.  As an Indians fan, I'm glad that Boston gave up too. 

[🏀]

Because they couldn't do anything with Kluber, Miller, Tomlin, Allen and the rest of the Indian's bullpen? Cleveland's decimated pitching staff gets big credit from me.

Did you watch Tomlin pitch? Toronto thought they were going to tee him up, which makes sense because he's given up the third most homers in the MLB. instead they turned it into an overswinging crapshow and grounded everything out. Maybe it was the shadows or the umpire, depends on that Toronto excuse you want to believe.

Then they were given a gift last night with Bauer's finger. Failed to capitalize on both opportunities, instead their second best player turned to excuses after the second game. They were toast after that.

[DegenerateDish]

No, as amazing as Miller is, the Cubs did not make a mistake in not trading Schwarber for him, in my opinion. 

I've been stunned with Cleveland's dominance so far.  Aside from Kluber and the back end of their pen, their starting pitching does not scare me with Salazar and Carrasco out.  I'd love to face Josh Tomlin.

The narrative is more macro than that though. It'll judge Miller/Chapman's performances this postseason, the reality that Schwarber gives you nothing during this run, Chapman potentially leaving this offseason with no compensation back, Torres tearing it up in AFL, and Miller signed through next year (with compensation if you lose him).

A lot to come, but Miller is your ALCS MVP.

[buckchuckler]

Case in point, my brother's college friend (a doctor) attended Game 1 with his wife. He's from the east coast, has never shown much interest in baseball and his wife (a native Chicagoan) apparently asked if "The Penguin" still played for the Cubs. Yes, that would be 68yo Ron Cey who last played for the Cubs in 1986.

That's a pretty good representation of most Cub fans.   

[Vander Blue Man Group]

That's a pretty good representation of most Cub fans.   

Typical White Sox fan plus a Badger to boot.  Disgusting.  Cubs Twitter did a nice job of putting him in his place. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

The narrative is more macro than that though. It'll judge Miller/Chapman's performances this postseason, the reality that Schwarber gives you nothing during this run, Chapman potentially leaving this offseason with no compensation back, Torres tearing it up in AFL, and Miller signed through next year (with compensation if you lose him).

A lot to come, but Miller is your ALCS MVP.

Sure, there are a lot of moving pieces.  I still don't trade 5+ years of Schwarber for 2 of Miller. 

[Wally Schroeder]

Typical White Sox fan plus a Badger to boot.  Disgusting.  Cubs Twitter did a nice job of putting him in his place. 

As a die hard Cubs fan growing up on the South Side, I learned long ago it's not worth the argument from either side. There are fans on both sides of the city I can have intelligent conversations with, but the Cubs vs. Chi Sox is an argument I won't have, and there are more than enough dummies cheering for both teams that always seem more concerned with how the other team is doing.

A friend posted something to facebook the other day about how it's officially impossible for the Cubs to outplay the '05 Sox 11-1 postseason. Shucks, so the Cubs should just go home now. What's the point if you can't outperform another team's eleven year-ago postseason run?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

As a die hard Cubs fan growing up on the South Side, I learned long ago it's not worth the argument from either side. There are fans on both sides of the city I can have intelligent conversations with, but the Cubs vs. Chi Sox is an argument I won't have, and there are more than enough dummies cheering for both teams that always seem more concerned with how the other team is doing.

A friend posted something to facebook the other day about how it's officially impossible for the Cubs to outplay the '05 Sox 11-1 postseason. Shucks, so the Cubs should just go home now. What's the point if you can't outperform another team's eleven year-ago postseason run?

It's not and I know Buckchuckler was being sarcastic (mostly) so I was just sending a little back his way.  On the whole though, I do think Sox fans are more concerned about the Cubs than vice-versa. 

[Wally Schroeder]

It's not and I know Buckchuckler was being sarcastic (mostly) so I was just sending a little back his way.  On the whole though, I do think Sox fans are more concerned about the Cubs than vice-versa.

I agree with you on the bold. There is a population of Cubs fans that do the same though. I want to shake them and tell them to worry about the Cubs, and if there's another team to give a damn about, make it the Cardinals.

[MerrittsMustache]

I agree with you on the bold. There is a population of Cubs fans that do the same though. I want to shake them and tell them to worry about the Cubs, and if there's another team to give a damn about, make it the Cardinals.

I went to a Sox game in the late 90s and Frank Thomas hit a walk-off HR in the bottom of the 9th. On the way out of the stadium, the crowd in the concourse chanted "Sammy Sucks!" In case you were wondering, the Sox beat the Twins that night.

Brewers fans aren't very far behind Sox fans in terms of the concern about the Cubs.

[TallTitan34]

I don't mean this as a shot, but it does bug me that no crowd in baseball gets more excited for a soft pop up to the outfield like a Wrigley crowd. Every fly ball off the bat isn't going out to Waveland.

I actually have a theory on this. 

Maybe 30% of the seats or so in the lower level at Wrigley are blocked by the upper deck.  Therefore when these people see a ball hit in the air all they see is the ball take off the bat before being obstructed by the upper deck.

That is my best guess, but as PTM said you hear that at Brewer games too where the upper deck doesn't block the lower level so who knows.

[buckchuckler]

It's not and I know Buckchuckler was being sarcastic (mostly) so I was just sending a little back his way.  On the whole though, I do think Sox fans are more concerned about the Cubs than vice-versa.

I certainly think this is true, and honestly I think it has a lot to do with media coverage.  Especially when the Trib owned the Cubs, there was not nearly equal representation, heck it was probably more skewed than 60-40.  Even when the Sox were just objectively better than the Cubs, the media attention was always on the Cubs.  I remember stories in the Trib about why Sox fans should love certain Cub teams.  I don't need a corporate shill newspaper telling me what team I should like, much less love.  Crap like that makes Sox fans more defensive. 
I remember Frank Thomas being completely villanized by the Trib, and Sammy Sosa completely lionized.  It is really annoying.  The only place you could get even decent Sox coverage was the Southtown.  I remember Cub fans telling me how much better Kerry Wood was than Mark Buehrle.  ALL THE TIME.  How much better Kerry Wood was than any pitcher to ever touch a baseball actually ( I have a friend that is a Cubs season ticket holder that told me this year that Wood is the best pitcher the Cubs have ever had--  Hell Arrieta is already better!  Cmon!)  And having exactly one date in history to make their claim.  Sure, he had better stuff, but he wasn't better on the mound.  Then add in the recent crap about how the Sox should trade Sale to the Cubs for a package built around Jorge Soler.  It makes the brain hurt, and makes Sox fans a little more defensive.

I know I was always questioned throughout grade school and high school about how I could possibly be a Sox fan.  This is how it works when your fandom falls in the minority.  People were incredulous, "How could you be a Sox fan???" and then when I tried to talk baseball with them and to state my positions, I found many of these "fans," that could hardly believe I was a Sox fan, were completely illiterate to basic baseball (not saying all Cub fans are like this, but certainly the ones like that are the most obnoxious).  These kinds of experiences make Sox fans a little more defensive. 

I would liken it to how many of our fellow MU alums from the state of Wisconsin, really really hate UW.  The Badgers are in their faces all the time.  And everyone thinks you are some sort of freakoid because you don't like the Badgers.  That is what it is like to be a Sox fan in Chicago. 

The Cubs are in your face all the time.  You are called out for your fanhood all the time.  Your sanity is questioned, and lets be real here, it isn't like the Cubs are the Yankees or anything, for most of my life they have been at best a mediocre franchise.  And they are completely ubiquitous.  They are front and center, they are in your face all the time.  I bet throughout  High School and Jr. High, I was outnumbered 15-1 Cub to Sox fans.  I was never one to shy away from a conflict, so I always held my ground against assaults on my team.  Since I have had to defend my decision, and my team since I was about 5 years old, yeah, it has made me hate the other team.   
I have some friends that are great baseball fans that happen to be Cub fans.  I love talking baseball with them.  Some of the best fans I know.  I could almost ( )be happy for them if the Cubs won.  I remember hoping that they would experience it after the Sox won.  But the city would be a complete crap show forever if they won.  Cub fans now make fun of Sox fans for holding onto 2005, well if the Cubs win, it will make the press and pub the 85 Bears get look like bush league BS.

So do Sox fans hate the Cubs more.  Yes, yes we sure do.  I think we have earned that right.  The Sox aren't even an after thought to Cub fans.  While Sox fans get beat over the head with the Cubs every day. 

Sorry for the book.  Lots of mental anguish.

[DegenerateDish]

I actually have a theory on this. 

Maybe 30% of the seats or so in the lower level at Wrigley are blocked by the upper deck.  Therefore when these people see a ball hit in the air all they see is the ball take off the bat before being obstructed by the upper deck.

That is my best guess, but as PTM said you hear that at Brewer games too where the upper deck doesn't block the lower level so who knows.

I agree with this, the lower bowl at Wrigley has some uniqueness to it with sightlines, especially if you're in the 200's sections.

[MerrittsMustache]

I know I was always questioned throughout grade school and high school about how I could possibly be a Sox fan.  This is how it works when your fandom falls in the minority.  People were incredulous, "How could you be a Sox fan???" and then when I tried to talk baseball with them and to state my positions, I found many of these "fans," that could hardly believe I was a Sox fan, were completely illiterate to basic baseball (not saying all Cub fans are like this, but certainly the ones like that are the most obnoxious).  These kinds of experiences make Sox fans a little more defensive. 

This isn't specific to Cubs fans. The most obnoxious fans of ANY fanbase are usually the most clueless.
 

[buckchuckler]

This isn't specific to Cubs fans. The most obnoxious fans of ANY fanbase are usually the most clueless.

Probably mostly true, though, I like to think I am a pretty well informed Sox fan, and as many here (dare I guess VBMG??) can attest, I am pretty damn obnoxious! 

[🏀]

As a Cubs fan, I enjoy mocking the White Sox, but ultimately enjoy their success.

The only reason I enjoy mocking them is to return crap from their fans.

[buckchuckler]

As a Cubs fan, I enjoy mocking the White Sox, but ultimately enjoy their success.

The only reason I enjoy mocking them is to return crap from their fans.

I mean, that just makes things more fun right?  When both teams are good (boy has that been awhile...) it is really fun to engage in the smack talk back and forth.  And even when they aren't both good, it is still fun.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I certainly think this is true, and honestly I think it has a lot to do with media coverage.  Especially when the Trib owned the Cubs, there was not nearly equal representation, heck it was probably more skewed than 60-40.  Even when the Sox were just objectively better than the Cubs, the media attention was always on the Cubs.  I remember stories in the Trib about why Sox fans should love certain Cub teams.  I don't need a corporate shill newspaper telling me what team I should like, much less love.  Crap like that makes Sox fans more defensive. 
I remember Frank Thomas being completely villanized by the Trib, and Sammy Sosa completely lionized.  It is really annoying.  The only place you could get even decent Sox coverage was the Southtown.  I remember Cub fans telling me how much better Kerry Wood was than Mark Buehrle.  ALL THE TIME.  How much better Kerry Wood was than any pitcher to ever touch a baseball actually ( I have a friend that is a Cubs season ticket holder that told me this year that Wood is the best pitcher the Cubs have ever had--  Hell Arrieta is already better!  Cmon!)  And having exactly one date in history to make their claim.  Sure, he had better stuff, but he wasn't better on the mound.  Then add in the recent crap about how the Sox should trade Sale to the Cubs for a package built around Jorge Soler.  It makes the brain hurt, and makes Sox fans a little more defensive.

I know I was always questioned throughout grade school and high school about how I could possibly be a Sox fan.  This is how it works when your fandom falls in the minority.  People were incredulous, "How could you be a Sox fan???" and then when I tried to talk baseball with them and to state my positions, I found many of these "fans," that could hardly believe I was a Sox fan, were completely illiterate to basic baseball (not saying all Cub fans are like this, but certainly the ones like that are the most obnoxious).  These kinds of experiences make Sox fans a little more defensive. 

I would liken it to how many of our fellow MU alums from the state of Wisconsin, really really hate UW.  The Badgers are in their faces all the time.  And everyone thinks you are some sort of freakoid because you don't like the Badgers.  That is what it is like to be a Sox fan in Chicago. 

The Cubs are in your face all the time.  You are called out for your fanhood all the time.  Your sanity is questioned, and lets be real here, it isn't like the Cubs are the Yankees or anything, for most of my life they have been at best a mediocre franchise.  And they are completely ubiquitous.  They are front and center, they are in your face all the time.  I bet throughout  High School and Jr. High, I was outnumbered 15-1 Cub to Sox fans.  I was never one to shy away from a conflict, so I always held my ground against assaults on my team.  Since I have had to defend my decision, and my team since I was about 5 years old, yeah, it has made me hate the other team.   
I have some friends that are great baseball fans that happen to be Cub fans.  I love talking baseball with them.  Some of the best fans I know.  I could almost ( )be happy for them if the Cubs won.  I remember hoping that they would experience it after the Sox won.  But the city would be a complete crap show forever if they won.  Cub fans now make fun of Sox fans for holding onto 2005, well if the Cubs win, it will make the press and pub the 85 Bears get look like bush league BS.

So do Sox fans hate the Cubs more.  Yes, yes we sure do.  I think we have earned that right.  The Sox aren't even an after thought to Cub fans.  While Sox fans get beat over the head with the Cubs every day. 

Sorry for the book.  Lots of mental anguish.

Freakoid. 

As a Cubs fan I get it and I don't have any problem with a healthy dislike between the fans.  I have more trouble when someone claims they're a fan of both teams, and I have a couple of friends like that, even if they lean towards one side more than the other.   

A lot of it is easy to ignore but some of it is so stupid and/or annoying that I can't help myself at times.  Like when Hawk Harrelson tried to favorably compare Frazier to Bryant this year.  Or what Kaminsky did, as it is not not clever (although I'm sure he thought it was brilliant).   

Clearly a lot of it stems from grade school - high school but I would say most fans at that time don't have a very sophisticated view of the game. 



That being said, I certainly wouldn't

[buckchuckler]

In other MLB news, MLB is apparently pushing hard to implement an international draft as part of the new CBA.  Not sure this is the best solution, but something new would seem to be better than what is currently going on.

[buckchuckler]

And Corey Kluber, on what 2 days rest, is getting hit pretty firmly so far. Only 2 runs so far, but some loud outs. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

And Corey Kluber, on what 2 days rest, is getting hit pretty firmly so far. Only 2 runs so far, but some loud outs.

I didn't realize they were starting him today.  I assumed with a 3-0 lead they would pitch him on regular rest. 

[StillAWarrior]

I didn't realize they were starting him today.  I assumed with a 3-0 lead they would pitch him on regular rest.

I'm not sure who they'd start if not Kluber.  The only other starter who is healthy is Tomlin, and he pitched game two.  Their options were Kluber on three days rest or Tomlin on two.  And they need to give Kluber as much rest as possible for Game Seven (God forbid).  They're really hoping for the sweep so everyone can get rest.  Playoffs are tough with only two starters.

Go Tribe!