MLB 2016

[Blackhat]

Word is we might get Mendez or Guzman as the PTBNL.   The PTBNL won't be unveiled until after the minor league season so we have more time to scout the options.   If it's Mendez or Guzman the Lucroy/Jeffress trade would be tremendous for Brewers.

[Blackhat]

Brinson is a boom or bust guy.   Has trouble with pitch recognition.   May be a Rickie Weeks or a total stud.

[GB Warrior]

Okay, SUPER technical question.  Arcia gets 60 days service this year = no full year.  Arcia then gets 'optioned' for a minimum 21 days next year so retroactive service time doesn't accrue and he has less than a full year of service in 2017.  Where does that leave him?

PS.  Totally agree we're not discussing Mickey Mantle here.  I'm not overly worried about his superstar status just yet.  Lots to prove.

We probably aren't talking about his options at that point unless there is substantial doubt on whether he is ready for the bigs.

Not an expert at this by any means, but I think it depends on what happens the following year - assuming he plays the full year on the MLB roster, which is safe. That (by a non expert's calculation) would leave him with about 2.1 ish years of service (1 year in '18, 151 days in '17, 60 days in '16). That's likely not enough for Super 2, so he'd be a standard 3 year player before hitting arbitration. In which case, no harm no foul. However, if he begins next year as an every day player, he very well might qualify, in which case arbitration would kick in after '18. So there is some risk to this strategy of calling him up now.

The sensible thing to do if we think he is a superstar is to start him in the minors next year and burn some of those service days at the beginning of the year (the Kris Bryant strategy) to lock in an extra year of control. We could then call him up in late April/early May and be good to go.

Cart before horse, though - let's see if the kid can play.

Like both trades.  Having 7 of the top 74 prospects a year into a re-build isn't half bad.  Quality over quantity for the Rangers trade.  Brinson has been dealing with injuries, and has just started to get back into form over the past couple weeks.  He's just 22, Ortiz 20, Bickford 21.  A lot of potential there, versus Melvin's usual request for "Major League-ready talent", that was essentially asking for 26 year old AAAA players with low ceilings.  Not a salary dump move and sounds like an option on the PTBNL, so thinking it's probably above scrub level.

Hope so, because right now, I look at this essentially a 2-for-2 trade. Ortiz and Bickford are similar talents, as are Smith and Jeffress, so that's one half the equation. That means it's Luc for Brinson + PTBNL, which is a lot given Brinson's boom-or-bust potential.

[GB Warrior]

Word is we might get Mendez or Guzman as the PTBNL.   The PTBNL won't be unveiled until after the minor league season so we have more time to scout the options.   If it's Mendez or Guzman the Lucroy/Jeffress trade would be tremendous for Brewers.

That would be a huge haul, and far from your typical PTBNL. Mendez is probably the better prospect, but Guzman is a specimen at first.

[jsglow]

We probably aren't talking about his options at that point unless there is substantial doubt on whether he is ready for the bigs.

Not an expert at this by any means, but I think it depends on what happens the following year - assuming he plays the full year on the MLB roster, which is safe. That (by a non expert's calculation) would leave him with about 2.1 ish years of service (1 year in '18, 151 days in '17, 60 days in '16). That's likely not enough for Super 2, so he'd be a standard 3 year player before hitting arbitration. In which case, no harm no foul. However, if he begins next year as an every day player, he very well might qualify, in which case arbitration would kick in after '18. So there is some risk to this strategy of calling him up now.

The sensible thing to do if we think he is a superstar is to start him in the minors next year and burn some of those service days at the beginning of the year (the Kris Bryant strategy) to lock in an extra year of control. We could then call him up in late April/early May and be good to go.

Cart before horse, though - let's see if the kid can play.

Hope so, because right now, I look at this essentially a 2-for-2 trade. Ortiz and Bickford are similar talents, as are Smith and Jeffress, so that's one half the equation. That means it's Luc for Brinson + PTBNL, which is a lot given Brinson's boom-or-bust potential.

It might make him a Super 2 but it won't change his years under control correct?  As I understand it, it only means arby kicks in one year earlier.

[GB Warrior]

It might make him a Super 2 but it won't change his years under control correct?  As I understand it, it only means arby kicks in one year earlier.

Correct - it would just drive up the cost more quickly than expected. Still 6 years of control

[MerrittsMustache]

The Super 2 "deadline" likely passed in mid-June.

[CTWarrior]

Hey Tower, what would it take for Detroit to take Dombrowski back?  It is getting tiresome watching the guys he gave up prospects for to "bolster" our pennant run this year blow game after game.

Brad Zeigler 0-2 with blown save already.
Drew Pomeranz 0-2 with a 7.53 ERA after 3 starts
Fernando Abad 0-1 with a blown save and a loss after one appearance.

[tower912]

That well was poisoned last year.  Ilitch wanted to buy, Dombrowski decided to sell.  Relationship ruptured.

[GGGG]

Fielder's career over due to neck injury.  Wow.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2016/08/09/report-prince-fielders-career-over/88474706/

[MerrittsMustache]

Fielder's career over due to neck injury.  Wow.

http://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2016/08/09/report-prince-fielders-career-over/88474706/

Fun player to watch. It's unfortunate that his career is being cut short, but I can't feel too sorry for him since he's still getting the $96M remaining on his contract.

[brandx]

Fun player to watch. It's unfortunate that his career is being cut short, but I can't feel too sorry for him since he's still getting the $96M remaining on his contract.

Fun? He was a fat, slow, one-dimensional hitter who never thought he needed to learn to play defense.

He is the coverboy for the type of "athlete" that I hate to watch play.

[GGGG]

He was not a "one dimensional hitter." Top 70 all time OPS.

[buckchuckler]

He was not a "one dimensional hitter." Top 70 all time OPS.

Lots of HRs, lots of 2b, lots of BB, lots of Ks. 

That said, his OPS doesn't exclude him from certain company.  His most similar player (according to BBref) is Mo Vaughn.  He was certainly a better hitter than an Adam Dunn type, though fairly similar (Actually I just added their walks and total bases (for a 162 average) and Dunn averaged 380 bases, Prince was 381 -- doesn't really mean anything, interesting though). 

I wouldn't quite call him one dimensional.  He hit over .300 a couple times and was a career .283 hitter.  He never hit below .261 in a full season.  He had more of the "hit tool" than guys that are one dimensional.  In my estimation he was a power hitter that was also a pretty darn good hitter. 

[GGGG]

Lots of HRs, lots of 2b, lots of BB, lots of Ks. 

That said, his OPS doesn't exclude him from certain company.  His most similar player (according to BBref) is Mo Vaughn.  He was certainly a better hitter than an Adam Dunn type, though fairly similar (Actually I just added their walks and total bases (for a 162 average) and Dunn averaged 380 bases, Prince was 381 -- doesn't really mean anything, interesting though). 

I wouldn't quite call him one dimensional.  He hit over .300 a couple times and was a career .283 hitter.  He never hit below .261 in a full season.  He had more of the "hit tool" than guys that are one dimensional.  In my estimation he was a power hitter that was also a pretty darn good hitter. 

I'm down with that.

[MerrittsMustache]

Fun? He was a fat, slow, one-dimensional hitter who never thought he needed to learn to play defense.

He is the coverboy for the type of "athlete" that I hate to watch play.

Yeesh. Apparently Prince refused to sign an autograph for you or something.

As a one-dimensional hitter, it's surprising that he had more career doubles than HRs, a career .283 average, a career .382 OBP, led the league in walks once (drawing over 100 three different times) and holds 6 different Brewers' records. Maybe you consider "being a solid, patient hitter" to be one dimension.

[🏀]

Yeesh. Apparently Prince refused to sign an autograph for you or something.

As a one-dimensional hitter, it's surprising that he had more career doubles than HRs, a career .283 average, a career .382 OBP, led the league in walks once (drawing over 100 three different times) and holds 6 different Brewers' records. Maybe you consider "being a solid, patient hitter" to be one dimension.

More like refused to resign with the Brewers...

[wadesworld]

If Prince Fielder wasn't fun to watch I'm not sure how many baseball players there are out there that would be considered fun to watch.  Trout, Puig for how dumb he is and his athleticism/arm, Harper, and...?  Not sure.  Maybe Bautista, Donaldson, Cespedes, Machado, Bryant, Schwarber, Rizzo, Altuve, Bogaerts, Betts... Can't think of any Brewer in my lifetime (at least that I was old enough to remember) that was more fun to watch.

[CTWarrior]

If Prince Fielder wasn't fun to watch I'm not sure how many baseball players there are out there that would be considered fun to watch.  Trout, Puig for how dumb he is and his athleticism/arm, Harper, and...?  Not sure.  Maybe Bautista, Donaldson, Cespedes, Machado, Bryant, Schwarber, Rizzo, Altuve, Bogaerts, Betts... Can't think of any Brewer in my lifetime (at least that I was old enough to remember) that was more fun to watch.

Ortiz is the same type hitter as Fielder, and he is fun to watch hit for sure.  But I enjoy watching guys like Pedroia, Ichiro and Altuve who play like their life depended on the outcome of the game.  Watching Ortiz jog to first on a double play groundball is not particularly fun.  Not a lot of guys who hustle all the time anymore.  I am amazed at how often guys turns doubles into singles because they don't run hard out of the box.   

[wadesworld]

Ortiz is the same type hitter as Fielder, and he is fun to watch hit for sure.  But I enjoy watching guys like Pedroia, Ichiro and Altuve who play like their life depended on the outcome of the game.  Watching Ortiz jog to first on a double play groundball is not particularly fun.  Not a lot of guys who hustle all the time anymore.  I am amazed at how often guys turns doubles into singles because they don't run hard out of the box.

Watching Prince run down the 1st base line was a sight to be seen.  He always played (and ran) hard, at least when he was in Milwaukee.

[MerrittsMustache]

Ortiz is the same type hitter as Fielder, and he is fun to watch hit for sure.  But I enjoy watching guys like Pedroia, Ichiro and Altuve who play like their life depended on the outcome of the game.  Watching Ortiz jog to first on a double play groundball is not particularly fun.  Not a lot of guys who hustle all the time anymore.  I am amazed at how often guys turns doubles into singles because they don't run hard out of the box.

Ortiz is not nearly as "natural" as Prince though.

Off topic: I find it interesting that A-Rod was "caught" using PEDs, admitted it and he's now a "disgrace to the game"...no doubt in part due to his phony, narcissistic personality. On the other hand, Ortiz is a cheater who was also "caught" but he's gone with the deny, deny, deny strategy (as ARod did originally) but he's the lovable, gregarious Big Papi so he's currently being honored across the league with a farewell tour.

[CTWarrior]

Ortiz is not nearly as "natural" as Prince though.

Off topic: I find it interesting that A-Rod was "caught" using PEDs, admitted it and he's now a "disgrace to the game"...no doubt in part due to his phony, narcissistic personality. On the other hand, Ortiz is a cheater who was also "caught" but he's gone with the deny, deny, deny strategy (as ARod did originally) but he's the lovable, gregarious Big Papi so he's currently being honored across the league with a farewell tour.

Ortiz hasn't gone deny, deny, deny.  If I remember correctly, he said back in 2003 that whatever they found was likely from supplements he bought over the counter in the DR (which really didn't make it illegal under baseball's old rules, which basically was not to use illegal product without specifying anything in particular, so you could nitpick that if he bought it over the counter it wasn't illegal).  Maybe not true, but at least a reasonable explanation.  And no evidence or positive tests since. 

I do agree with your larger point that those most vilified were the guys people didn't like much in the first place (Bonds, Clemens, A-Rod) and those who vociferously denied and were later caught (A-Rod again, Palmeiro).  Guys like Ortiz and Pettitte who are generally well-liked seemed to get more of a pass.  I think most people thought Piazza was taking stuff, as you read stories in print about his back acne, etc., but that seemed to pass as he is now in the HOF.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

How weird is this Tommy La Stella situations though

[RJax55]

How weird is this Tommy La Stella situations though

Its weird.

Coughlan is out of options, that's why he had to be on the 25. I have no doubt La Stella would have been back with the club in September, with a good chance of being on the playoff roster. I get that he is upset, but he's missing the bigger picture.

[MerrittsMustache]

Its weird.

Coughlan is out of options, that's why he had to be on the 25. I have no doubt La Stella would have been back with the club in September, with a good chance of being on the playoff roster. I get that he is upset, but he's missing the bigger picture.

From what I've heard, LaStella is a bit of an odd guy. He's also only 27 and in his third MLB season. I could see if he was an established 30+yo veteran and didn't take the demotion well but, quite frankly, he's a no-name.

That said, one could argue that Coghlan should be DFA'd. He's struggling at the plate and isn't exactly a strong defender. The Cubs also have 5 OFs on the roster, along with Bryant, Zobrist and Contreras all of whom can play the OF.

I don't blame La Stella for being upset, but he's not handling the situation very well at all.