Author Topic: MLB 2016 (Read 169360 times)

JWags85 · « **Reply #600 on:** July 25, 2016, 10:51:40 AM »

Hearing Torres, Adam Warren, Billy McKinney, and a player to be named.

Certainly a steep price but Chapman is a freak of nature and solves one of the biggest issues for the Cubs. And supposedly an extension talk is in the works.

Character issues are certainly a valid concern but from a baseball perspective, this is huge.

LAZER · « **Reply #601 on:** July 25, 2016, 11:10:21 AM »

Quote from: JWags85 on July 25, 2016, 10:51:40 AM

Hearing Torres, Adam Warren, Billy McKinney, and a player to be named.

Certainly a steep price but Chapman is a freak of nature and solves one of the biggest issues for the Cubs. And supposedly an extension talk is in the works.

Character issues are certainly a valid concern but from a baseball perspective, this is huge.

Wow, surprised to see the Cubs overpaying like this.

🏀 · « **Reply #602 on:** July 25, 2016, 11:16:25 AM »

Torres has no future with the Cubs, expendable.
McKinney has been in a downfall for two years now, may never reach the majors.

I wish Warren wasn't involved...

LAZER · « **Reply #603 on:** July 25, 2016, 11:24:04 AM »

Quote from: PTM on July 25, 2016, 11:16:25 AM

Torres has no future with the Cubs, expendable.
McKinney has been in a downfall for two years now, may never reach the majors.

I wish Warren wasn't involved...

I'm not concerned with trading Torres, but I'm worried about trading a borderline Top 25 prospect (and more) for a rental, not to mention the baggage that comes with him.

MerrittsMustache · « **Reply #604 on:** July 25, 2016, 11:27:08 AM »

Quote from: PTM on July 25, 2016, 11:16:25 AM

Torres has no future with the Cubs, expendable.
McKinney has been in a downfall for two years now, may never reach the majors.

I wish Warren wasn't involved...

Torres' future is likely at 2B. He could have had a place with the Cubs at the Major League level.

Warren just got sent to AAA for the second time this season. He's not in the Cubs' plans, in part because he and Maddon haven't really jived. Warren wants to have a set role out of the pen and Maddon prefers to mix it up. Sometimes Warren comes on in long relief, sometimes he's the 8th inning set-up man.

ChitownSpaceForRent · « **Reply #605 on:** July 25, 2016, 11:39:39 AM »

Honestly though, how is Clayton Richards still on the roster but Adam Warren is not?

🏀 · « **Reply #606 on:** July 25, 2016, 11:46:24 AM »

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on July 25, 2016, 11:27:08 AM

Torres' future is likely at 2B. He could have had a place with the Cubs at the Major League level.

Warren just got sent to AAA for the second time this season. He's not in the Cubs' plans, in part because he and Maddon haven't really jived. Warren wants to have a set role out of the pen and Maddon prefers to mix it up. Sometimes Warren comes on in long relief, sometimes he's the 8th inning set-up man.

I agree with Warren, but he's talented.

Cubs have the middle infield strength, dealing it is fine by me. Zobes thorough 19, Torres should be ready by 18 at the latest. Baez as well.

Vander Blue Man Group · « **Reply #607 on:** July 25, 2016, 11:51:17 AM »

I absolutely hate the deal for Chapman. The off-the-field issues speak for themselves but I also feel that Torres is too much to give up for a two-month rental of a relief pitcher, even one as elite as Chapman.

JWags85 · « **Reply #608 on:** July 25, 2016, 12:09:43 PM »

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on July 25, 2016, 11:51:17 AM

I absolutely hate the deal for Chapman. The off-the-field issues speak for themselves but I also feel that Torres is too much to give up for a two-month rental of a relief pitcher, even one as elite as Chapman.

Does it change your feelings if they are signing him to an extension? Cause all reports make it seem like its been taking awhile cause extension talks are going on.

Warren wasn't used right by the Cubs, Maddon and the Cubs both admit it, it happens. McKinney is no big deal, and Torres is good but still a bit away in an area the Cubs have a lot of depth. And he's a great prospect, but he'd only be the 4th or 5th best prospect that Cubs had if all their young talent didn't come up so quick. If this gets an elite closer locked up for a few years in his prime? Not bad at all.

buckchuckler · « **Reply #609 on:** July 25, 2016, 12:15:43 PM »

Certainly alot to trade for 30 or so innings, but if you get to the WS because of him, no one will miss Torres or McKinney.

MerrittsMustache · « **Reply #610 on:** July 25, 2016, 12:23:26 PM »

#donedeal

MU82 · « **Reply #611 on:** July 25, 2016, 12:31:40 PM »

The Cubs have an outstanding team, quite possibly the best in baseball.

They have had problems at closer, and probably the best closer in baseball is now theirs.

They have not won the World Series in 108 years and have not reached it in 71 years.

They have a significantly better chance of erasing one or both of those streaks today than they did yesterday.

One reason you build your minor-league system is to have prospects ready to trade for established big-league stars at a time said stars can help win a championship.

This is a total, unequivocal no-brainer.

brandx · « **Reply #612 on:** July 25, 2016, 01:02:12 PM »

Quote from: LAZER on July 25, 2016, 11:24:04 AM

I'm not concerned with trading Torres, but I'm worried about trading a borderline Top 25 prospect (and more) for a rental, not to mention the baggage that comes with him.

It's all about winning titles and Chapman addresses the single biggest weakness on the club.

It is a great deal for the Yankees. They are giving up nothing - they are out of this year's race and can resign Chapman if they want - but, it is also a great deal for the Cubs.

Torres is years away yet and middle infield is not a weakness at the major league level with two guys in their early 20s in Russell and Baez.

brandx · « **Reply #613 on:** July 25, 2016, 01:04:41 PM »

Quote from: MU82 on July 25, 2016, 12:31:40 PM

The Cubs have an outstanding team, quite possibly the best in baseball.

They have had problems at closer, and probably the best closer in baseball is now theirs.

They have not won the World Series in 108 years and have not reached it in 71 years.

They have a significantly better chance of erasing one or both of those streaks today than they did yesterday.

One reason you build your minor-league system is to have prospects ready to trade for established big-league stars at a time said stars can help win a championship.

This is a total, unequivocal no-brainer.

I've warned you before, 82 - quit stealing my thoughts before I have them and post them here!!

ChitownSpaceForRent · « **Reply #614 on:** July 25, 2016, 01:04:59 PM »

Yea, really don't understand why Cubs fans are bitching over this trade. Torres would have been called up until at least 2020, and it doesn't look as if Baez is going anywhere, and Russell is in for the long haul.

Also, I'm calling BS on all the claims that say people don't like him because of the domestic abuse. Blackhawks fans (myself included) had no trouble cheering for Kane after punching a cabbie or the rape allegations. (Yes I know he was cleared)

Vander Blue Man Group · « **Reply #615 on:** July 25, 2016, 01:27:15 PM »

Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 25, 2016, 01:04:59 PM

Yea, really don't understand why Cubs fans are bitching over this trade. Torres would have been called up until at least 2020, and it doesn't look as if Baez is going anywhere, and Russell is in for the long haul.

Also, I'm calling BS on all the claims that say people don't like him because of the domestic abuse. Blackhawks fans (myself included) had no trouble cheering for Kane after punching a cabbie or the rape allegations. (Yes I know he was cleared)

I think you're missing the point for the group that doesn't like the deal. It has nothing to do with when Torres could potentially be called up or that he is blocked. I'd much rather hold on to a piece like that and trade him as part of package for a cost-controlled SP in the offseason than a 2 month rental on a reliever, even one as elite as Chapman. I think it is a massive overpay.

And you're wrong regarding the domestic abuse issue. I have a huge issue that this turd is now on my favorite team. I will still root for the team but I cannot root for him personally.

buckchuckler · « **Reply #616 on:** July 25, 2016, 01:30:12 PM »

What a move by Brian Cashman. He turned Eric Jagielo and Rookie Davis into Mckinney and Torres. No way that deal gets made straight up.

buckchuckler · « **Reply #617 on:** July 25, 2016, 01:32:47 PM »

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on July 25, 2016, 01:27:15 PM

I think you're missing the point for the group that doesn't like the deal. It has nothing to do with when Torres could potentially be called up or that he is blocked. I'd much rather hold on to a piece like that and trade him as part of package for a cost-controlled SP in the offseason than a 2 month rental on a reliever, even one as elite as Chapman. I think it is a massive overpay.

And you're wrong regarding the domestic abuse issue. I have a huge issue that this turd is now on my favorite team. I will still root for the team but I cannot root for him personally.

They had to overpay if they wanted him. As recently as Sunday it was being reported that the Indians were top dog in the bidding. Supply and demand, lots of competition for his services drove up his price. There is no point in having a great farm system if you cant use it to go for it when you jave a legit chance. Probably too much to trade. Yes. If they Cubs do what they want to do, it will.never matter.

Vander Blue Man Group · « **Reply #618 on:** July 25, 2016, 01:47:55 PM »

Quote from: buckchuckler on July 25, 2016, 01:32:47 PM

They had to overpay if they wanted him. As recently as Sunday it was being reported that the Indians were top dog in the bidding. Supply and demand, lots of competition for his services drove up his price. There is no point in having a great farm system if you cant use it to go for it when you jave a legit chance. Probably too much to trade. Yes. If they Cubs do what they want to do, it will.never matter.

I understand all of that. I have no issue with trading prospects, even one as highly regarded as Torres. However, based on the history of this front office, trading that kind of piece for a two month rental doesn't sit well with me. I would have rather let him go to Cleveland.

LAZER · « **Reply #619 on:** July 25, 2016, 01:55:29 PM »

Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on July 25, 2016, 01:47:55 PM

I understand all of that. I have no issue with trading prospects, even one as highly regarded as Torres. However, based on the history of this front office, trading that kind of piece for a two month rental doesn't sit well with me. I would have rather let him go to Cleveland.

Especially considering the other RP's available this deadline and the ones that will be available via FA this offseason.

LAZER · « **Reply #620 on:** July 25, 2016, 01:57:59 PM »

Quote from: ChitownSpaceForRent on July 25, 2016, 01:04:59 PM

Yea, really don't understand why Cubs fans are bitching over this trade. Torres would have been called up until at least 2020, and it doesn't look as if Baez is going anywhere, and Russell is in for the long haul.

Torres could very well be called up in September of next year with a shot to make a team in 2018. And when the Cubs decide not to resign a 31 year old Arrieta after next year, Torres would have been an extremely valuable trade chip for a front line SP.

MU82 · « **Reply #621 on:** July 25, 2016, 02:00:14 PM »

You bring Theo to Chicago because you trust his ability to get the job done. He has done nothing -- NOTHING -- to disappoint Cubbie fans. He has made a horrible situation into something pretty darn good. And now, in his judgment, Chapman is the final piece.

I don't understand how any Cubs fan could mistrust his judgment on this -- or basically anything at this point.

As for the domestic abuse ... Chapman has suffered the consequences, served his time and vowed to be a better person. Is a person never allowed to repent and heal or is he forever labeled as a horrible human being with no redeeming values and no chance at redemption?

Again, total no-brainer.

LAZER · « **Reply #622 on:** July 25, 2016, 02:09:08 PM »

Quote from: MU82 on July 25, 2016, 02:00:14 PM

You bring Theo to Chicago because you trust his ability to get the job done. He has done nothing -- NOTHING -- to disappoint Cubbie fans. He has made a horrible situation into something pretty darn good. And now, in his judgment, Chapman is the final piece.

I don't understand how any Cubs fan could mistrust his judgment on this -- or basically anything at this point.

As for the domestic abuse ... Chapman has suffered the consequences, served his time and vowed to be a better person. Is a person never allowed to repent and heal or is he forever labeled as a horrible human being with no redeeming values and no chance at redemption?

Again, total no-brainer.

I question the move because, to me, it contradicts two things this FO has constantly preached. The first is their belief in the best way to win a WS is to win year in and year out and get in to the playoffs. IMO, this does not accomplish that. Secondly, they have always put character and make-up as one of their top priorities, so has Maddon. This move clearly is at odds with that philosophy.

Also, signing anyone with the accusations that Chapman has filed against him is not a "total no-brainer".

MerrittsMustache · « **Reply #623 on:** July 25, 2016, 02:10:05 PM »

Quote from: MU82 on July 25, 2016, 02:00:14 PM

As for the domestic abuse ... Chapman has suffered the consequences, served his time and vowed to be a better person. Is a person never allowed to repent and heal or is he forever labeled as a horrible human being with no redeeming values and no chance at redemption?

When did he vow to be a better person? He apologized for having a gun and claims that he has now gotten rid of it. He never apologized for shoving/choking his girlfriend. In fact, he claimed to have never touched her during the incident, which is different than what he had originally told police.

If a loved one of yours was in the position of his girlfriend, would you be so quick to forgive and forget?

Bottom line: I don't want a guy like that on my team. I hope the Cubs win in spite of him.

buckchuckler · « **Reply #624 on:** July 25, 2016, 02:15:39 PM »

Quote from: LAZER on July 25, 2016, 01:55:29 PM

Especially considering the other RP's available this deadline and the ones that will be available via FA this offseason.

Free agency doesnt matter. That doesnt help your team now. They could have gotten a non rental in Miller but wouldnt trade Schwarber. This was their next best option.

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Author Topic: MLB 2016 (Read 169360 times)

brandx

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