MLB 2016

[MUsoxfan]

What's he laughing about? The other 29 teams aren't exactly beating a path to his door.

Maybe the Sox going out of their way to take on the worst deal in baseball, for a guy who has a 20+ ERA while he sits back and collects.

I'd be laughing too

[Vander Blue Man Group]

You sure you don't wanna let it go and just enjoy the season your team is having?

I am enjoying the Cubs' season.  My post was not about a Cubs fan giving crap to a Sox fan for no reason.  There had been a previous discussion about Shields and the quality of pitcher he is both in terms of the Sox and in comparison to other rotations. 

I'm certainly not going to post every time Shields has a horrific outing but he's been historically bad so far since the trade and I thought it was relevant to the previous discussion.  Don't be so touchy. 

[Lennys Tap]

Maybe the Sox going out of their way to take on the worst deal in baseball, for a guy who has a 20+ ERA while he sits back and collects.

I'd be laughing too

Danks was worthless, has been for years. So bad that the Sox are paying him big money not to show upper work. 29 other teams agree and have no interest in him, even at the league minimum salary. Shield's last 4 starts have been horrific. Maybe he's as done as Danks is. But why JD would find it funny that there's another guy (along with him) stealing the Sox's money is beyond me.

[DegenerateDish]

As a Sox fan, it's time to blow it up. They have two great starting pitchers in their 20's, who have incredibly team friendly contracts. The Red Sox, Dodgers, Rangers, Cubs have great farm systems. In a heartbeat I'd trade Sale and Quintana for 6-8 studs. If the Cubs wanted Sale, I'd take Schwarber, Contreras, Cease and call it done.

[Mutaman]

Mets get swept by the Braves at home. WFAN should be fun tomorrow.

[🏀]

Danks was worthless, has been for years. So bad that the Sox are paying him big money not to show upper work. 29 other teams agree and have no interest in him, even at the league minimum salary. Shield's last 4 starts have been horrific. Maybe he's as done as Danks is. But why JD would find it funny that there's another guy (along with him) stealing the Sox's money is beyond me.

It's funny because he Hahn and Kenny are still trying to make the fanbase believe they have a chance.

[GGGG]

As a Sox fan, it's time to blow it up. They have two great starting pitchers in their 20's, who have incredibly team friendly contracts. The Red Sox, Dodgers, Rangers, Cubs have great farm systems. In a heartbeat I'd trade Sale and Quintana for 6-8 studs. If the Cubs wanted Sale, I'd take Schwarber, Contreras, Cease and call it done.

Very difficult with that ownership to see that happening. Good owner for sure. But too loyal and too tied to the notion that fans deserve a short term winner even if it sacrifices long term success.

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Very difficult with that ownership to see that happening. Good owner for sure. But too loyal and too tied to the notion that fans deserve a short term winner even if it sacrifices long term success.

Weird, the Sox and the bulls seem to be having the same problems. Wonder why that could be...

[GGGG]

Weird, the Sox and the bulls seem to be having the same problems. Wonder why that could be...

Exactly. But both have won championships under his watch.

[DegenerateDish]

Very difficult with that ownership to see that happening. Good owner for sure. But too loyal and too tied to the notion that fans deserve a short term winner even if it sacrifices long term success.

Yeah, it bothers me because I think it's short sighted, especially in this baseball era.

I look at the excitement of Tim Anderson's call up, and how Sox fans have reacted, and want to scream at their front office and say "See?!?!". Who knows if Anderson will pan out, but I (and many Sox fans) see a young, athletic position player, showing some flash, and want more. Especially with the upcoming terrible FA market this winter, I'd be open for business for any assets I have.

Bottom out this year, be honest with the fan base, tell them 2017 will be tough, trade your assets. Between a few draft classes and picking up prospects via trade, I'd happily wait until 2018. The Dunn/LaRoche/Frazier pickups haven't worked, and none of them were/are terribly exciting. None of this will happen, frustrating for me.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

As a Sox fan, it's time to blow it up. They have two great starting pitchers in their 20's, who have incredibly team friendly contracts. The Red Sox, Dodgers, Rangers, Cubs have great farm systems. In a heartbeat I'd trade Sale and Quintana for 6-8 studs. If the Cubs wanted Sale, I'd take Schwarber, Contreras, Cease and call it done.

Sale is one of the few players I could actually live with Schwarber being moved for (although in this scenario I think you'd need to substitute another prospect for Contreras).

Serious question on the topic of a Sox rebuild from a Cubs fan.....Obviously, tearing it all down and rebuilding doesn't appear to be in the Sox DNA (I'm assuming this is driven by Reinsdorf). 

I don't mean this as a slam but the Sox typically have trouble drawing fans when they are playing well.  With that in mind, how much more of a negative impact on attendance would a rebuild actually have? 

That being said, I don't ever see them dealing Sale. 

[buckchuckler]

Look at the haul the Braves got for Shelby Miller.   The Marlins wanted Seager, Urias, De Leon and more for Fernandez.  Sale has market value faaaaaaaar beyond Miller and his contract makes him more valuable than Jose.  They can trade him, but is should be for major league talent as well as top prospects, which is what the braves got, but Sale should net substantially more.

[DegenerateDish]

Sale is one of the few players I could actually live with Schwarber being moved for (although in this scenario I think you'd need to substitute another prospect for Contreras).

Serious question on the topic of a Sox rebuild from a Cubs fan.....Obviously, tearing it all down and rebuilding doesn't appear to be in the Sox DNA (I'm assuming this is driven by Reinsdorf). 

I don't mean this as a slam but the Sox typically have trouble drawing fans when they are playing well.  With that in mind, how much more of a negative impact on attendance would a rebuild actually have? 

That being said, I don't ever see them dealing Sale.

I'd move Sale now. His velocity is down this year which is concerning to me. With his contract what it is, at a minimum they'd get 3 of 5 someone's best prospects. Quintana they'd get a similar return on (Quintana WAR 3.1, Sale 2.3). I don't think the Cubs necessarily need Sale or Quintana, but the Rangers, Dodgers, Red Sox absolutely do.

I don't think a rebuild would do much to attendance. As soon as the sweetheart deal with the state ends, and Reinsdorf's estate sells the team,then they'll move to the suburbs where they should be. They'll have a stadium in Rosemont in 20 years.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Look at the haul the Braves got for Shelby Miller.   The Marlins wanted Seager, Urias, De Leon and more for Fernandez.  Sale has market value faaaaaaaar beyond Miller and his contract makes him more valuable than Jose.  They can trade him, but is should be for major league talent as well as top prospects, which is what the braves got, but Sale should net substantially more.

I don't think it is that simple to an extent.  So because Dave Stewart made an absolutely horrendous trade you expect the same to hold true for other teams?  In fact, I think it becomes much more unlikely based on what Stewart gave up and how Miller has performed so far (and I completely get the Miller is not Sale, not even close).  To me, that trade was an anomaly.   

I've always maintained a trade for Sale was extremely unlikely because of what it would take for the Sox to deal him as well as what the other team would have to give up.  There might be 2-3 teams that could actually even make it happen.   

I've read the same things about Andrew Miller in regards to the Ken Giles trade.  Just because Houston made a horrendous trade doesn't mean you can expect another team to do the same. 

And I'm on the same page as you are - I think what it would take for the Sox to trade Sale is pretty unlikely.  Most likely all talk.   

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I'd move Sale now. His velocity is down this year which is concerning to me. With his contract what it is, at a minimum they'd get 3 of 5 someone's best prospects. Quintana they'd get a similar return on (Quintana WAR 3.1, Sale 2.3). I don't think the Cubs necessarily need Sale or Quintana, but the Rangers, Dodgers, Red Sox absolutely do.

I don't think a rebuild would do much to attendance. As soon as the sweetheart deal with the state ends, and Reinsdorf's estate sells the team,then they'll move to the suburbs where they should be. They'll have a stadium in Rosemont in 20 years.

So I've read that Sale has made the decision to cut down on velocity as a way to cut down on pitch count.  Do you think that is not the case?

Agreed that the Cubs don't need Sale but if he were ever legitimately made available they'd at least inquire. 

But the main point is your response on attendance.  To me, if things don't turn around this year for the Sox (or even in the next 40 days), that should at the very least make rebuilding an option.   

[DegenerateDish]

So I've read that Sale has made the decision to cut down on velocity as a way to cut down on pitch count.  Do you think that is not the case?

Agreed that the Cubs don't need Sale but if he were ever legitimately made available they'd at least inquire. 

But the main point is your response on attendance.  To me, if things don't turn around this year for the Sox (or even in the next 40 days), that should at the very least make rebuilding an option.

I don't buy it. He's routinely at 100 pitches in the 6th. If it's true, it's not working.

[buckchuckler]

So I've read that Sale has made the decision to cut down on velocity as a way to cut down on pitch count.  Do you think that is not the case?

Agreed that the Cubs don't need Sale but if he were ever legitimately made available they'd at least inquire. 

But the main point is your response on attendance.  To me, if things don't turn around this year for the Sox (or even in the next 40 days), that should at the very least make rebuilding an option.

 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

???

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Contreras hits the first pitch he sees for a HR.  Study up defensively - the bat is ready. 

[Blackhat]

nm

[brandx]

Contreras hits the first pitch he sees for a HR.  Study up defensively - the bat is ready.

It's been done 30 times in MLB history.

No player who did this has ever made the Hall of Fame.

[buckchuckler]

I don't buy it. He's routinely at 100 pitches in the 6th. If it's true, it's not working.

Well, he is still like 6th in the league in K's and 2nd in IP, so...

[brandx]

I don't buy it. He's routinely at 100 pitches in the 6th. If it's true, it's not working.

Not quite - just in the last few starts.

In games he has pitched 7 innings or more this year, including 3 CG, he has averaged 108 pitches, so it would be pretty hard to be over 100 pitches in 6.

[buckchuckler]

Any one cast All Star votes?  Here is how mine shook out.

C     S. Perez           J. Lucroy
1B   E. Hosmer        P. Goldschmidt
2B   I Kinsler           D. Murphy
SS   F. Lindor           T. Story
3B   J. Donaldson    N. Arenado
OF   M.Trout            A. Duvall       
OF   M. Betts           S. Marte
OF   I. Desmond      M. Ozuna

Some interesting races going on.  Just like last year, when Royal fans were skewing the numbers, Cub fans are this year in the NL.  Several worthy candidates at most positions, this is how I decided to go.  I know my NL OF votes are at least, well, unorthodox, but I thought those guys had earned my votes. 

[WI inferiority Complexes]

Any one cast All Star votes?  Here is how mine shook out.

C     S. Perez           J. Lucroy
1B   E. Hosmer        P. Goldschmidt
2B   I Kinsler           D. Murphy
SS   F. Lindor           T. Story
3B   J. Donaldson    N. Arenado
OF   M.Trout            A. Duvall       
OF   M. Betts           S. Marte
OF   I. Desmond      M. Ozuna

Some interesting races going on.  Just like last year, when Royal fans were skewing the numbers, Cub fans are this year in the NL.  Several worthy candidates at most positions, this is how I decided to go.  I know my NL OF votes are at least, well, unorthodox, but I thought those guys had earned my votes.

You don't think the best team in baseball should have any all-stars?  It almost seems like you went out of your way to take Ozuna; both Bryant and Fowler have a higher WAR.