Undergrad school does it matter?

[weir1]

Is it worth extra $$ to go to Marquette or other Private undergrad university?  My son will be a freshman next year, undecided major.  He has delayed choosing a school due to covid.   I am looking for input regarding: is it worth it to go to an undergrad at Marquette, DePaul, or Loyola versus a state school such as UW-Milwaukee or UW-whitewater.   He does not want to go to UW-Madison or Univ of Minnesota due to size of school.   After scholarships cost difference is about $14,000 per year.   Is networking, contacts made, professors, etc.  better in the private schools?     Major undecided but most likely business or liberal arts😕.  He is really struggling with decision as no school jumped out as being “the one”.  Thanks in advance.

[#UnleashSean]

The answer is pretty much, no not at all. Your undergrad doesn't really matter much at all.



If you really wanna look into it. Your first two years all your doing is taking general Ed classes and that really doesn't matter where you go. I went to UW Waukesha for two years where I paid 1500 in tuition each semester.

If you get above a 2.5 you get auto accepted into any uw school (all credits transfer) as well as Marquette, Carol, and others. Though credit transfer is harder.

I then moved on to uw lacrosse where fafsa paid for the entire tuition. So I got all 4 years of undergrad for around 6000.

Then I went to grad school at Marquette.

[🏀]

Depends on your field. In my experience, it very much did matter.

That being said, two years at community college and then Marquette isn’t a bad choice. End result is the same.

[MU82]

Totally agree with Unleash. For most, it does not matter, and certainly not for the schools you are discussing. If we were talking Ivies or Stanford or Northwestern or ND, maybe ... but we're not. And that's nothing against MU, Loyola and DePaul.

I could hit you with all kinds of anecdotes, but I won't bore you with them. All I'll say is based on dozens of family members and friends (and the kids of family members and friends), I have seen enough evidence to firmly believe that school is what you put into it. And every school is a "party school" if a student wants it to be.

IMHO, your son would thrive at the UW schools you mentioned if he wants to thrive, and he'd be just as likely to find suitable employment after graduation (or get into another school/grad school if that's what he wants) as he would if he went to MU, LU or DU.

[mu_hilltopper]

Is it worth extra $$ to go to Marquette or other Private undergrad university?   Is networking, contacts made, professors, etc.  better in the private schools?     Major undecided but most likely business or liberal arts😕.  He is really struggling with decision as no school jumped out as being “the one”.  Thanks in advance.

Yeah, the answer you are seeking is: Nope.  While you will find fans of private ed, fans of Marquette here, the older you get, the more you realize the name of your school has little impact on your success later in life.    Sure, elite schools may open doors in your 20s, but MU is certainly not an ivy school. 


As for networking, the school is a factor, but the bigger factor is your student.  Tons of kids are .. just getting through school .. I don't mean they are scraping by, I mean they are focused on the class at hand.   The more extroverted your kid is, the more 'networking' they will get out of a school.   The Marquette name has some cache, but it rapidly disappears if you're 100 miles away.  Frankly, UW, in this region, has a 10x the alumni base and network capacity.


And no .. I don't think there's an edge with professors or curriculum on private vs public.   Each school has their average, and better than average programs and profs.[size=78%] [/size]

[MUBurrow]

I am also on board with most all of this. One thing that I think can be overlooked if your son is likely to pursue a major that will require him to go grad school, especially business or liberal arts, or law school, god forbid, is undergrad class size.  My high school was small, and I tended to get lost and intimidated in the larger lectures my freshman and even sophomore years. There will be a bunch of those gen-ed, big lecture hall type classes your first couple years no matter where you go.  But I think those wind down earlier at smaller schools. And in a competetive grad school market, minimizing hits to your GPA from things like that can matter.

Grain of salt warning though - I was in the honors program at MU, which meant even a lot of my gen eds were in a smaller environment.  Ironically, I think my graduating GPA would have been significantly worse had I not been in the honors program, even if the classes have a reputation as being "harder."

[muwarrior69]

Depends on your field. In my experience, it very much did matter.

That being said, two years at community college and then Marquette isn’t a bad choice. End result is the same.

My daughter went that route (not MU but another 4 year school) after community college as she changed majors 3 times. She graduated with a BA in accounting. Hated all her accounting jobs and wound up getting her RN which in the long run she found much more satisfying. Sometimes it takes a kid awhile to know what they really want to do.

[4everwarriors]

Here's the skinny:
Do very well academically wherever he chooses to go to college and it won't matter one bit. If he's smart and does school well, then all door's are open. However, the competition will be greater at select universities. Everyone at NU, Stanford, Harvard, etc. is smart. If professional school is in his plans, admission committees make very little distinction between an undergrad degree from UW-Whitewater and one from Duke. And, you can be at a disadvantage by opting for the "better" school and falling short on the GPA.  Grade point and entrance exams such as MCAT, DAT, and LSAT are heavily weighted. For example, 3.80 GPA and a DAT score of 21 is more important to a dental school admission committee than a 3.00 GPA and a DAT score of 23.
Financially, as for public vs private, save the money, unless you really value the school's culture.

[MU82]

My daughter went that route (not MU but another 4 year school) after community college as she changed majors 3 times. She graduated with a BA in accounting. Hated all her accounting jobs and wound up getting her RN which in the long run she found much more satisfying. Sometimes it takes a kid awhile to know what they really want to do.

So true. My daughter went to Lawrence. Pricey! She is now a mortgage broker, and apparently a very good one because she does quite well. But she got hired by this company despite having zero experience in the industry and having graduated Lawrence with a paleontology degree after changing majors. She could have gone to pretty much any state school and ended up in the exact same place. Similarly, my wife got a journalism degree from Marquette but never used it. At the age of 40, she went to a community college to get her associate's degree in nursing. And after she worked as an RN for 12 years, she got her Bach in Nursing from an online program.

All kinds of ways to accomplish one's goals ... and often an 18-year-old doesn't even know what his or her goals are!

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Here's the skinny:
Do very well academically wherever he chooses to go to college and it won't matter one bit. If he's smart and does school well, then all door's are open. However, the competition will be greater at select universities. Everyone at NU, Stanford, Harvard, etc. is smart. If professional school is in his plans, admission committees make very little distinction between an undergrad degree from UW-Whitewater and one from Duke. And, you can be at a disadvantage by opting for the "better" school and falling short on the GPA.  Grade point and entrance exams such as MCAT, DAT, and LSAT are heavily weighted. For example, 3.80 GPA and a DAT score of 21 is more important to a dental school admission committee than a 3.00 GPA and a DAT score of 23.
Financially, as for public vs private, save the money, unless you really value the school's culture.

The bolded really isn't always the case.  For instance, as good of a business school that Whitewater is, Marquette's is better.  You will have a different caliber of business recruiting there and MBA schools are going to look at a degree from MU different than one from UWW.

For most people though, you are correct.  A degree from one isn't going to be that much different than another. 

[Billy Hoyle]

Here's the skinny:
Do very well academically wherever he chooses to go to college and it won't matter one bit. If he's smart and does school well, then all door's are open. However, the competition will be greater at select universities. Everyone at NU, Stanford, Harvard, etc. is smart. If professional school is in his plans, admission committees make very little distinction between an undergrad degree from UW-Whitewater and one from Duke. And, you can be at a disadvantage by opting for the "better" school and falling short on the GPA.  Grade point and entrance exams such as MCAT, DAT, and LSAT are heavily weighted. For example, 3.80 GPA and a DAT score of 21 is more important to a dental school admission committee than a 3.00 GPA and a DAT score of 23.
Financially, as for public vs private, save the money, unless you really value the school's culture.

Maybe that’s the case for dental school but law schools are all about the LSAT. It’s the great equalizer with schools having different grading scales and kids in different classes and majors (no set pre-law curriculum). Many of the “elite schools” have ridiculous grade inflation. Over 80% graduate Harvard with a 3.5 and above.

As for the grad school point you made, for the majority of schools that is true. However, at the “elite” grad schools like the Ivies, Berkeley, Stanford, Duke, Michigan, NW, etc., preference is given to their fellow grads and an applicants from outside that circle has to be extraordinary to get admitted. An Ivy grad gets extra points on their app to another Ivy school, just for being an Ivy grad as opposed to a MU grad. They want to keep the circle small.

Hell, at Ivy schools you are encourage to marry another Ivy grad so you’ll have “extraordinary” children.

[MU82]

Hell, at Ivy schools you are encourage to marry another Ivy grad so you’ll have “extraordinary” children.

I showed them! I married a Marquette girl and we have extra-extraordinary children! Damn adorable grandkids, too!!!

[Billy Hoyle]

I showed them! I married a Marquette girl and we have extra-extraordinary children! Damn adorable grandkids, too!!!

I married a Marquette girl too. We have an extraordinary, uh, cat.

My wife’s sister likes to throw her Harvard degree in our faces every 30 seconds or so. My response has been “ well, you’ll never attend a Final Four to see your alma mater play, I’ll take that.”

[DegenerateDish]

Depends on your field. In my experience, it very much did matter.

That being said, two years at community college and then Marquette isn’t a bad choice. End result is the same.

My wife is a counselor at a community college. She’s worked there for 12 years and I agree with this statement. Save the money and worry if a kid is undecided, go to a community college, figure things out. I think some kids need that adjustment period between high school and college to figure things out, and can still go then get the full college experience at half the price.

[lostpassword]

Is it worth extra $$ to go to Marquette or other Private undergrad university?

There is lots of legitimate advice above relative to education and career opportunities.  I'm going to answer this "Yes, it is worth it" but from a wholly different angle... admittedly one heavily influenced from personal experience.  I don't doubt that I would have done similar career-wise had I gone to UW (which I had a housing deposit into) or a UW-Hyphen, but I don't believe I'd have grown in other ways the same.  I came to Marquette from a small town in WI which lacked diversity (in color, thought, religion, sexual-orientation, etc.).  Marquette exposed me to an urban and diverse environment and course/service-work which made me think critically about things I'd never witnessed or thought critically about before.  "I get it now" was a mental refrain I had often

I'd encourage you and your son to consider the environment(s) and missions of the institutions being considered.

[Billy Hoyle]

There is lots of legitimate advice above relative to education and career opportunities.  I'm going to answer this "Yes, it is worth it" but from a wholly different angle... admittedly one heavily influenced from personal experience.  I don't doubt that I would have done similar career-wise had I gone to UW (which I had a housing deposit into) or a UW-Hyphen, but I don't believe I'd have grown in other ways the same.  I came to Marquette from a small town in WI which lacked diversity (in color, thought, religion, sexual-orientation, etc.).  Marquette exposed me to an urban and diverse environment and course/service-work which made me think critically about things I'd never witnessed or thought critically about before. "I get it now" was a mental refrain I had often

I'd encourage you and your son to consider the environment(s) and missions of the institutions being considered.

Same here. Living in the halls was an extremely important aspect of Marquette. I had more ethnic diversity on my floor in McCormick than in my high school of 750 and those I am closest with from college were dorm mates.

[JWags85]

As someone who had major issues with employment about a decade ago post graduation, I’m pretty connected to this question.

If you’re an exceptional or especially driven student, undergrad and major don’t matter.  You network, extra-curriculars, etc.. and you come out attractive and with connections.

Much less if you’re going to go to grad school. I have two friends, one a Harvard Law grad and the other a Wharton MBA. Neither went to even “good” undergrad schools, but excelled there. And if you’re talking just intro marketing/sales jobs or the like, then it’s probably not important.

But more competitive fields, even as a good/normal bright student, you’re gonna have trouble even getting an interview if they don’t like the undergrad school.  I had a great story about why I chose my major/minor combo and one of my college clubs, and the only time I got to tell it in an interview after graduation was cause I met someone at a Cubs game who got my resume out of the garbage at his firm after the fact. And I went to a really good undergrad school, but it wasn’t a target school for Chicago finance firms and I didn’t have a highlighted major.

I was blessed to have parental assistance with tuition. But for those not getting a scholarship, I am hugely in favor of CC or branch campus attendance before transferring for your last 2-3 years at a good school. I know a few people who excelled in that way

[GooooMarquette]

Add me to the list of people who supports two years at a community college or perhaps a UW-hyphen or UM-hyphen school. At that point, your son should have a better idea of his direction and can make a more informed decision about where to spend the next couple of years.

If he is looking at UW-Milwaukee or Whitewater because of the size, I would suggest he also consider University of Minnesota-Duluth. Solid school in an awesome city and more manageable campus than UW-Madison or UM-Twin Cities.

[Herman Cain]

Is it worth extra $$ to go to Marquette or other Private undergrad university?  My son will be a freshman next year, undecided major.  He has delayed choosing a school due to covid.   I am looking for input regarding: is it worth it to go to an undergrad at Marquette, DePaul, or Loyola versus a state school such as UW-Milwaukee or UW-whitewater.   He does not want to go to UW-Madison or Univ of Minnesota due to size of school.   After scholarships cost difference is about $14,000 per year.   Is networking, contacts made, professors, etc.  better in the private schools?     Major undecided but most likely business or liberal arts😕.  He is really struggling with decision as no school jumped out as being “the one”.  Thanks in advance.

In looking at your son's situation, ordinarily I would say go the schools with the most tradition and history and best reputation. Which in his case , would be UW Madison or University of Minnesota. There is value in the quality of students and alumni base. However, he has expressed reservations due to size of the school. So those are out.

Marquette , DePaul and Loyola will likely be a much better experience than UWW or UWM. Primarily because his odds of making quality lifelong friends are amplified at the private schools. Also the private schools have some national  name recognition and respect. If your family can afford the private schools then by all means go for them over the second tier state schools. However, if  money is a big issue, the private schools are not worth the premium. In the more economically  focused case , I would recommend two years at a community college to find a direction, and then go to the state schools which will minimize the cost. If it came down to UWW versus UWM, I would go with UWW in that the school spirit etc there would likely lead to more meaningful friendships than the commuter school orientation of UWM.

No matter where he goes, he must maximize grades and position himself to do well on applicable grad school entrance exams. While at the same investing time in building relationships.

[WarriorFan]

From my experience with my oldest son, I'd have rather he waited a year and worked at Starbucks or something like that while figuring out that he's got a high school education and working the same job as people with psychology and sociology history and other useless degrees. Then when he figures that out he would get a degree that leads to a job - like PT or Nursing or Engineering.

Now, after almost 3 years working towards a degree he's finally realized won't get him a job, we're looking at a transfer to engineering and having serious discussions about maximizing "returns" on the educational expenses. 

Sorry if I've offended those with sociology and history and psychology degrees.  My experience is that those folks who are "amazing" for their intellect and personality got good jobs anyway, and those who are "average" struggled, or don't get paid as much as their counterparts in Nursing or PT or Engineering etc. 

[muwarrior69]

I showed them! I married a Marquette girl and we have extra-extraordinary children! Damn adorable grandkids, too!!!

After I graduated and came back home I joined the Princeton Junction & Back theatre group. Many of the members were Princeton undergrads. During rehearsals many of the Princeton students would bring their text books and study. Many of the text books were exactly the same as the ones we used at Marquette and thought, Wow, I got a Princeton education at MU.

[dgies9156]

Where one gets and undergrad degree matters. It really does.

I have a degree in Journalism. Worked for newspapers and magazines for awhile before heading to business school and obtaining and MBA. Received my MBA in 2.75 years even though I had not taken a STEM-type class since I was a junior in high school.

Morale: The academic discipline required by the Jesuits to be graduated from Marquette changed me. It made me inquisitive, intrigued by a wide variety of things and really helped make me what we now call a "life long learner." I'm amazed at what I still retain, years later, from even obscure classes back in the day at MU.

That said, I'm an outspoken critic of what's happened to MU tuition in the years since I was graduated. The cost of an MU education, no matter how valuable the experience might be, is out of line. It's like healthcare in that third-party providers pick up so much of the cost that the financial geeks just pass through whatever increase they want.

I'll note that Marquette isn't for everybody (even without absurd costs). College is an experience that should be savored. For some, the best option is that tech school over in Madison. For others, it might be a smaller state school. A school might have a program that has a particularly attractive to a student. My children both found Southern Illinois University -- Carbondale optimal for their needs. My son liked it so much, he's talked about living in Southern Illinois!

[warriorchick]

My wife is a counselor at a community college. She’s worked there for 12 years and I agree with this statement. Save the money and worry if a kid is undecided, go to a community college, figure things out. I think some kids need that adjustment period between high school and college to figure things out, and can still go then get the full college experience at half the price.

I agree with this in principle, but  I would be interested to now often this actually happens.  My kids had tons of friends from high school who said they were going to do this and started out at community college, but my rough estimate is that at this point, 8-10 years later, fewer than half of them have bachelor's degrees, and this includes kids that were honor students.  I think most of them started out with the best of intentions, but chose classes too randomly, started working more at their part-time jobs and taking fewer classes each semester, various life situations got in the way, etc.

It's way easier to stay focused if you have a definite, 4-year plan, and frankly, the cost does act as an incentive to stay on task.  I agree that if your kid has no idea what he wants to do, and is not a particularly motivated student, enrolling him him in an expensive university is probably not the best idea.  But I would stay on that kid and make sure that every semester he is taking worthwhile classes and is actively working towards an educational goal.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I agree with this in principle, but  I would be interested to now often this actually happens.  My kids had tons of friends from high school who said they were going to do this and started out at community college, but my rough estimate is that at this point, 8-10 years later, fewer than half of them have bachelor's degrees, and this includes kids that were honor students.  I think most of them started out with the best of intentions, but chose classes too randomly, started working more at their part-time jobs and taking fewer classes each semester, various life situations got in the way, etc.

This is my anecdotal experience as well.  And I would add that a number of my kids classmates headed off to a four year school with no idea what they wanted to do, or changed majors sometimes multiple times while they were in school, and are doing great now. 

I think it would be better to go to a good, regional comprehensive four year school instead.  A Whitewater, NIU or something similar I think is better set up for "finding yourself" and sticking with it than most two year schools. 

[JWags85]

Sorry if I've offended those with sociology and history and psychology degrees.  My experience is that those folks who are "amazing" for their intellect and personality got good jobs anyway, and those who are "average" struggled, or don't get paid as much as their counterparts in Nursing or PT or Engineering etc.

I was a Psych major and have since advised against/recommended otherwise to any younger student I’ve talked to, unless they want to be an actual psychologist/psychiatrist. I was a Psych major, minored in Finance, had an intense interest in Behavioral Finance and worked on a joint paper/study with a Finance professor and Business Psych expert. Want to know how many people in finance saw past “Psych Major” to the other portions...ZERO.

I learned a ton, don’t regret it at all from a knowledge gained standpoint and really think it helped me with how I approach and process emotions and interactions...but I’d say at least half of my classes within my major were kids that had no viable plan within Psych, they just thought it was “cool”. And that’s reflected in job opportunities.  If it’s an interest, pick up a minor while attached to a more substantial major

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

The egalitarian part of me would like to believe all these sentiments, but there is a good reason Lori Laughlin is in hot water and there is a such thing as a gentleman’s C. 

[shoothoops]

The one thing I believe everyone can agree with, is one size does not fit all. The original poster isn't going to get the answer from here or someone else. Each individual kid has to make his or her own choice that best suits their interests, needs, experience and research.

One thing I do recommend generally, is for high school kids to visit as many colleges as they can of interest throughout their four years of high school. Not everyone can do this but this can be done inexpensively. I would also encourage anyone to take advantage of any programs that allow for travel to other geographies near and far while in high school. Don't wait for late in high school.

I disagree quite a bit with some of the major/course of study discussion. I am a big believer in taking courses of interest, in areas of study interest, to explore what one likes and doesn't if unsure. I also recommend to research those teaching the courses. Not enough is discussed about how much the individual professors matter in education. Course quality, professor quality, interest quality, are things to look for.

I would add that I have known well and worked with many high level executives that worked in fields they did not remotely study in college, not even close, self included. Some of these people were running multi billion dollar entities. Some of the best advice I ever received was study what you like and be well rounded. There will always be people who study something extremely specific and work in that field a long time. That works for them. There will be many others that are successful by doing it in a wide variety of ways. I would never tell someone not study liberal arts etc...which teaches reading, writing, critical thinking as opposed to something else that may appear more lucrarive on the surface. Much of what happens in a career happens after you get your foot into the door of an industry or specific place. Experience, relationships, being a good worker matter a lot.

What works for one person is not necessarily going to work for another.

When you do arrive at school, explore all interests early on to narrow down where you will be spending your time more specifically.

One kid might be working two jobs, taking care of family when going to college. Another may have spent a year abroad after high school. Another may be a student athlete, another may be this or that.

I do recommend if possible taking as many college level courses as one can in high school. I also recommend 
taking less desired required courses at a community college at times.

I definitely know now what I would have done the same and differently for myself and how I would approach things. But what works for me isn't going to be the same for others.

Let the kids be themselves and explore their own interests, make their own decisions. Acquire as much information and experiences as you can before and then narrow down and make a decision. Any decision can be changed or improved over time. Don't be afraid to make a mistake.

[MU82]

shoothoops:

I really like the tone and spirit of your comment and agree with most of it. The nits I might have are so insignificant that I won't even bother with them. Well done.

The egalitarian part of me would like to believe all these sentiments, but there is a good reason Lori Laughlin is in hot water and there is a such thing as a gentleman’s C. 

FLD, I think few would dispute that an Ivy or Stanford or other elite school could open avenues for many students. But the OP wasn't talking about the kinds of schools that those rich, cheating, enabling parents were paying to admit their spoiled, entitled kids.

He was asking if folks thought it was "worth" at least $14K per year extra for his son to go to "Marquette, DePaul, or Loyola versus a state school such as UW-Milwaukee or UW-whitewater."

As a few other posters said, "worth" is in the eye of the beholder. For example, is a Catholic education important? If so, one of those schools might be "worth" it. Is there a certain appealing area of study at one of those schools that isn't at the public schools? Is being in an urban environment like Chicago important? Etc, etc, etc.

But, in general, I personally don't think the Marquette/DePaul/Loyola experience and/or potential connections is "worth" at least $56k more over 4 years than the UWM or UWW experience and connections would be.

The OP was asking for opinions and reasons for our opinions, so there's mine. I'm not saying it's more "right" than anybody else's opinion.

[weir1]

Thank you to everyone for your input.  I am going to read these over with him and put it in the “blender” with other advise/thoughts/research he has received and help “guide” him on his decision.   I graduated Marquette in 87 and It is mind blowing how much the cost have gone up.  Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to comment.

[reinko]

Thank you to everyone for your input.  I am going to read these over with him and put it in the “blender” with other advise/thoughts/research he has received and help “guide” him on his decision.   I graduated Marquette in 87 and It is mind blowing how much the cost have gone up.  Thanks again to everyone for taking the time to comment.

I will also say, this year for incoming freshman will be no like any other with COVID.  Every residential campus is saying they will be opening, but so much is unknown at this time.  I was a college counselor for 10 years, and ethically I never recommended students double depositing, but the way higher education is just assuming things will be back to normal, I am of the opinion that families do what is there best interest.

[WarriorFan]

One more point on this:

If you want to know the true measure of a school, go to the career services department and look at the job postings.  Even though Marquette is a borderline regional/national school, it had (for engineering) national job postings from fortune 100 companies with real career paths.

I have seen the same at UWSP (paper science and chemical engineering) and UW Platteville (engineering) so clearly some of the UW system graduate candidates who are in demand at the national level.

Bottom line - if the career board has jobs that are interesting to your kid, then that's a good school for your kid. 

[Not A Serious Person]

This thread is forgetting the real reason for an undergraduate ... credentialing.

It is not about vocational training.

[vogue65]

For me it was about learning how the system works, how to develop character, and to learn values.  I learned how to learn over my lifetime.  I'm still learning.
"You get what you pay for, IF you're lucky".

[drewm88]

There is lots of legitimate advice above relative to education and career opportunities.  I'm going to answer this "Yes, it is worth it" but from a wholly different angle... admittedly one heavily influenced from personal experience.  I don't doubt that I would have done similar career-wise had I gone to UW (which I had a housing deposit into) or a UW-Hyphen, but I don't believe I'd have grown in other ways the same.  I came to Marquette from a small town in WI which lacked diversity (in color, thought, religion, sexual-orientation, etc.).  Marquette exposed me to an urban and diverse environment and course/service-work which made me think critically about things I'd never witnessed or thought critically about before.  "I get it now" was a mental refrain I had often

I'd encourage you and your son to consider the environment(s) and missions of the institutions being considered.

This is pretty close to how I'd answer the question. My time at Marquette helped me figure out who I am and what I value in a different way than if I had gone to a UW extension school, and that's driven my career more than anything on my resume.

Also keep in mind that 2 years at CC followed by MU isn't just a matter of transcripts. It's relationships and experiences that get cut off or missed entirely. But $$$ is obviously a huge factor, and it's a massive privilege to look beyond that. I don't know that a Marquette education will pay for itself over a UW school in the long run in strict dollar terms, but for me it has in the big picture.

[muwarrior69]

This is pretty close to how I'd answer the question. My time at Marquette helped me figure out who I am and what I value in a different way than if I had gone to a UW extension school, and that's driven my career more than anything on my resume.

Also keep in mind that 2 years at CC followed by MU isn't just a matter of transcripts. It's relationships and experiences that get cut off or missed entirely. But $$$ is obviously a huge factor, and it's a massive privilege to look beyond that. I don't know that a Marquette education will pay for itself over a UW school in the long run in strict dollar terms, but for me it has in the big picture.

Marquette was affordable in my day. Tuition, room and board, and books cost my parents just over 12,000 for my 9 semesters at MU.

[Disco Hippie]

But more competitive fields, even as a good/normal bright student, you’re gonna have trouble even getting an interview if they don’t like the undergrad school.  I had a great story about why I chose my major/minor combo and one of my college clubs, and the only time I got to tell it in an interview after graduation was cause I met someone at a Cubs game who got my resume out of the garbage at his firm after the fact. And I went to a really good undergrad school, but it wasn’t a target school for Chicago finance firms and I didn’t have a highlighted major.

This was certainly the case 10 years ago and before but even in elite professions such as I-Banking and finance the process has been democratized considerably in recent years.  Firms have responded to pressure that they don't cast a wide enough net and have expanded the schools from which they recruit considerably.  More MU grads than ever before are landing plum entry level positions on Wall St.   It's still a very small number overall but when I graduated in the early early 90s it would have been unheard of for someone from MU to even get an interview at an elite firm because they only recruited from the Top 20.  Even if one went to one of those schools it was pretty hard to land one of those jobs back in the day.  Still not easy today but if you have the smarts, they don't put quite as much emphasis on the prestige of the undergrad institution.  My sense is it still matters more than it should at many of these places, just not as much as it used to where it really was the be all and the end all. 

Overall I agree with most of the sentiment expressed here that it doesn't matter that much in terms of employment prospects, especially after one's first entry level job, with the exception of highly competitive industries such as finance and a few others.  Geography plays a role, and it probably matters more on the coasts, particularly the east coast but even there, I think the biggest factor is the individual hiring manager and their personal biases.  If it matters to them it's important.  If it doesn't it isn't.  In my industry, probably 1/3 to maybe 40% do and to them, it's a very big deal.  Thankfully these folks are still the minority.

[Jables1604]

I married a Marquette girl too. We have an extraordinary, uh, cat.

My wife’s sister likes to throw her Harvard degree in our faces every 30 seconds or so. My response has been “ well, you’ll never attend a Final Four to see your alma mater play, I’ll take that.”

Sorry if someone already suggested this...Next time your sister in law throws that Harvard degree in your face remind her that you went to the Harvard of Milwaukee.

[Marquette Gyros]

Echoing (some) others - depending on career choice undergrad makes a difference. If interested in the corporate/professional track I’d probably advise MU, DePaul, Loyola and maybe in that order (you could flip flop the first two but I think our brand is better). If not, or if grad school is planned right after, it’s less important.

Sure this will be controversial - but IMO, more important for personal growth would be to get out of the high school routine and use the collegiate experience to broaden the students understanding of “who they are” and who they can be. For me it was important to get on a plane and go to MU to grow, build new relationships, do chit for myself etc.  Probably a different outcome if I kept living at home and went to State U or State U-Exurb, in the same bubble, with the same people. YMMV.

Covid throws a wrench in this last part. Tough time to make a decision.

[Billy Hoyle]

Sorry if someone already suggested this...Next time your sister in law throws that Harvard degree in your face remind her that you went to the Harvard of Milwaukee.

Nah, not our style. Let her play academic elitist. Besides, I’ve successfully avoided seeing her for nearly 12 years now.

Echoing (some) others - depending on career choice undergrad makes a difference. If interested in the corporate/professional track I’d probably advise MU, DePaul, Loyola and maybe in that order (you could flip flop the first two but I think our brand is better). If not, or if grad school is planned right after, it’s less important.

Sure this will be controversial - but IMO, more important for personal growth would be to get out of the high school routine and use the collegiate experience to broaden the students understanding of “who they are” and who they can be. For me it was important to get on a plane and go to MU to grow, build new relationships, do chit for myself etc.  Probably a different outcome if I kept living at home and went to State U or State U-Exurb, in the same bubble, with the same people. YMMV.

Covid throws a wrench in this last part. Tough time to make a decision.

I don’t think it’s controversial at all. I experienced more diversity of opinions, culture, ethicists, etc as a freshman than the first 18 years of my life. That’s the most important part of the collegiate experience.

[keefe]

I married a Marquette girl too. We have an extraordinary, uh, cat.

My wife’s sister likes to throw her Harvard degree in our faces every 30 seconds or so. My response has been “ well, you’ll never attend a Final Four to see your alma mater play, I’ll take that.”

Hoyle: "Well, you'll never attend a Finar Four to see your alma mater play"

Harvard: "Neither will you with that floor slappin' sonuvabitch as the coach!"

[keefe]

Go to the best school you can get into beginning with high school. It improves both the quantity and quality of subsequent options. It's a fact.

[rocky_warrior]

Go to the best school you can get into beginning with high school. It improves both the quantity and quality of subsequent options. It's a fact.

Work harder than those in your school and subsequent schools / jobs.  It improves your income.  It's a fact.

[keefe]

Work harder than those in your school and subsequent schools / jobs.  It improves your income.  It's a fact.

Some jobs have a couple more zeros on the paycheck. It's a fact.

[rocky_warrior]

Some jobs have a couple more zeros on the paycheck. It's a fact.

I don't think we're disagreeing.  Those jobs aren't usually born from just an education.  It's a fact.

[keefe]

I don't think we're disagreeing.  Those jobs aren't usually born from just an education.  It's a fact.

We are in complete agreement: nothing replaces hard work. But the right academic credentials never hurts one's professional, social, or political prospects.

There is a reason why parents fight ferociously to get their newborn lined up with the right pre-school.

[rocky_warrior]

There is a reason why parents fight ferociously to get their newborn lined up with the right pre-school.

Oh god, that's a good one.  "Could you tell me a little about the preschool you attended and what it meant to your 5 year goal at that time".  lol.  Where's the reset button.

[Billy Hoyle]

Oh god, that's a good one.  "Could you tell me a little about the preschool you attended and what it meant to your 5 year goal at that time".  lol.  Where's the reset button.

You’ve never lived in NYC. It’s a real thing. I saw coworkers jump through ridiculous hoops just to get their kids into “elite” preschools.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/manhattan-mom-sues-19k-yr-preschool-damaging-4-year-old-daughter-ivy-league-chances-article-1.117712

[Its DJOver]

I don't think one Karen pulling her kid out of preschool after three weeks, getting her lawsuit thrown out, all of which happening almost a decade ago, is enough evidence to properly use the phrase "it's a real thing".  Just seems like an extreme example of a snowplow parent.

[Billy Hoyle]

I don't think one Karen pulling her kid out of preschool after three weeks, getting her lawsuit thrown out, all of which happening almost a decade ago, is enough evidence to properly use the phrase "it's a real thing".  Just seems like an extreme example of a snowplow parent.

no, what this shows is how important preschools are in NYC and the East Coast because of the path it sets kids on from the time they're two years old. Get shut out of an "elite" preschool then you get shutout of elite elementary schools. Then, you get shutout of elite high schools and so on. My buddy paid $40K a year to send his daughter to an "elite" kindergarten but that way, when it was time, she could go to one of the top private high schools like Dalton. Marymount, Trinity, etc., or one of the elite NE boarding schools instead of hoping to get into one of the top eight public schools via the SHSAT (my old neighbor has been prepping her daughter for the SHSAT since she was in sixth grade since she doesn't go to one of the elite Manhattan schools).

Karen here was made that her daughter didn't get into the #1 ranked Kindergarten.

[Its DJOver]

Or it shows that people way overpay for luxury goods in certain parts of the country as a status symbol.  From your article. 

At the York Ave. campus, where many kids were being picked up by nannies pushing luxury strollers,

Far too many stories of people having extreme levels of success and obtaining access to Ivy or other prestigious Universities without access to these "elite" preschools.  No one in their right mind would think that they're child's chances of success are locked in or squashed that early in their life.

[keefe]

Oh god, that's a good one.  "Could you tell me a little about the preschool you attended and what it meant to your 5 year goal at that time".  lol.  Where's the reset button.

Obviously you don't live in that world so you don't understand it. Competition for the best pre-schools is very real.

In Japan, it is life defining.

[Disco Hippie]

Obviously you don't live in that world so you don't understand it. Competition for the best pre-schools is very real.

In Japan, it is life defining.

Well I lived in that world for most of my adult life until moving to the suburbs a couple of years ago and I don't understand it either.   Not saying the competition in NYC isn't real.  It definitely is and we had deal with it ourselves with our child when he was younger.  That doesn't mean it's remotely rational or true.  It has far more to do with social status and keeping up with the Joneses as It's DJOver rightly points out.  I thought it was total BS!   
 
Now the high school in our suburban town is definitely a pressure cooker and there is intense competition to gain entrance to the most prestigious colleges and universities.   A lot of that is nonsensical as well given the consensus that undergrad school doesn't matter all that much which for the most part I agree with.  Has as much to do with parent bragging more than anything else.

Most of the research that I've read seems to conclude that the biggest beneficiaries of IVY League and elite higher education are the students of low income parents who are the first in their families to go to college due to their presumptive previous lack of exposure to the professional world.  For your garden variety upper middle class or even upper class rich kid, it makes no difference.   

If true, that's a shame because the conclusion is that it's not about what you learn but who you meet.  I've never heard a better argument against higher education in my life.

[rocket surgeon]

Is it worth extra $$ to go to Marquette or other Private undergrad university?  My son will be a freshman next year, undecided major.  He has delayed choosing a school due to covid.   I am looking for input regarding: is it worth it to go to an undergrad at Marquette, DePaul, or Loyola versus a state school such as UW-Milwaukee or UW-whitewater.   He does not want to go to UW-Madison or Univ of Minnesota due to size of school.   After scholarships cost difference is about $14,000 per year.   Is networking, contacts made, professors, etc.  better in the private schools?     Major undecided but most likely business or liberal arts😕.  He is really struggling with decision as no school jumped out as being “the one”.  Thanks in advance.

  i had 3 or 4 dental school classmates who completed their undergraduate studies at UW-parkside

[warriorchick]

  i had 3 or 4 dental school classmates who completed their undergraduate studies at UW-parkside

But it was Marquette Dental School, so in Disco Hippie's world, that's about as prestigious as a medieval barber apprenticeship.

[vogue65]

Are we talking about being a "preppy"?
Either you are or you are not.

In my day Marquette was probably 30% preppy.
Today I would guess it is 80% preppy.
Please set me straight if I'm off base.

Networking needs to be taught from very early in life.  Networkers have parents who network.  It is a learned skill.   Snobs hang with snobs.

It is not the college, but the class polish that matters.

Class matters, read Hillbilly Elegy.

[Hards Alumni]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLEIun5deEU

[vogue65]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLEIun5deEU

Where do I sign up?

[keefe]

UW-parkside

Is that really a school?

[GOO]

So, a few of us have been in the camp that Marquette needs to plan for the future for a downsized school, more selective. That the future, online schools, not needing a degree, etc, is part of the future.  Sure, those with money will want the traditional education/college experience, etc.  Why not.  But, traditional colleges will be undercut.  Leaving top colleges, the rest, and then online/non-degree options.

instead it seems that MU is acting like the big ship in the ocean, slow to change and doubling down on staying large with a tuition based model.

These discussions were all way pre-corona virus (which to me makes this trend/future even more obvious, of course).

I came across this today:

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/13/google-announces-certificates-in-data-project-management-and-ux.html

FYI: Parkside is a "real" school and actually has some decent programs and a very good pre-med program.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I just don't see how "not needing a degree is part of the future."  Sure there will always be professions where that is the case, but the gap in lifetime earnings between those with and without degrees continues to grow.  Online schools sure.  But those have been a thing for awhile and haven't dented the traditional model all that much yet.  Of course that can change with what is going on now, but that's hardly a given.

[GOO]

Going forward, it would/will be great to have a four year degree, sure. For those with money, that will be the way to go.

But it won't be needed to get a great job at great companies and advance - the question will be (is) can you do the work, etc.  And now, we can easily and cheaply test if you can in fact do the work before we hire you.  And if you can do the work and manage people as well, you can advance.  The degree won't/doesn't matter like it used to for a lot of positions.

Online College will be accepted as a degree. 

Pressure on Colleges as fewer students seek the 200K traditional college degree. Doesn't mean it doesn't matter and that those in a good position won't seek out the four year traditional degree.  I just don't see it being as important.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Going forward, it would/will be great to have a four year degree, sure. For those with money, that will be the way to go.

But it won't be needed to get a great job at great companies and advance - the question will be (is) can you do the work, etc.  And now, we can easily and cheaply test if you can in fact do the work before we hire you.  And if you can do the work and manage people as well, you can advance.  The degree won't/doesn't matter like it used to for a lot of positions.

I'll be honest, I have been hearing this for almost 30 years, only to see the value of a degree continue to increase versus the value of not having one.

Until I see that actually change, I am skeptical of statements like these.

Online College will be accepted as a degree. 

Pressure on Colleges as fewer students seek the 200K traditional college degree. Doesn't mean it doesn't matter and that those in a good position won't seek out the four year traditional degree.  I just don't see it being as important.

I don't disagree with this however.  A lot of bias to overcome still.

[Babybluejeans]

If your kid can get into a top 25 school, he/she should go regardless of cost. Most of my high school friends went to Ivies (or thereabouts) and their networks—meaning their college friends—are highly accomplished. Those networks are now mine too, which is awesome, but also (like many things in life) lucky. MU connections have been helpful and I absolutely loved my in-class experience there...but I leverage my high school network way more than MU.

Which is to say, go to a top school price be damned or, failing that, go to an affordable school and work your ass off to get into a top grad school. 

[JWags85]

Going forward, it would/will be great to have a four year degree, sure. For those with money, that will be the way to go.

But it won't be needed to get a great job at great companies and advance - the question will be (is) can you do the work, etc.  And now, we can easily and cheaply test if you can in fact do the work before we hire you.  And if you can do the work and manage people as well, you can advance.  The degree won't/doesn't matter like it used to for a lot of positions.

Online College will be accepted as a degree. 

Pressure on Colleges as fewer students seek the 200K traditional college degree. Doesn't mean it doesn't matter and that those in a good position won't seek out the four year traditional degree.  I just don't see it being as important.

What great companies are going to suddenly say “hey, college degrees aren’t important anymore, here’s a test that puts you on par with the kid with a degree from (insert good not great school here). I just don’t buy it at all.

And unless there is a true and pronounced shift in online degrees from legitimate brick and mortar schools (like we’ve seen in graduate degrees), I still remain skeptical on the broad adoption of online degrees as appealing to employers. With the exception of “non-traditional” older students or military vets, I’ve never encountered an applicant from one of the online only schools that didn’t red flag. It’s not the same sort of foresight as someone who went to CC for 2 years and transferred, or like my future BIL who went to an affordable low level 4 year school in NYC and then crushed it with his sole focus on the top 5 law school he ended up at.

There are always exceptions, but I feel it’s far more likely we see a reckoning and student loan bubble popping that forces colleges to rethink financials than us see degrees be de-emphasized and U of Phoenix/DeVry/Capella, etc... become on par with even a UWM, Illinois State, Directional Michigan sort of realm