MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: mileskishnish72 on April 21, 2020, 11:05:10 AM
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Bored here under house arrest. Was thinking about our history of highly-rated recruits that don't pan out.
1. Who was our most disappointing recruit?
2. Who was the biggest surprise on the upside?
Just off the top of my head, I thought Jamail Jones (RSCI in the 70's, career points at MU also in the 70's) and the Big Sheesh (although I don't know where or if DWade was ranked and he surpassed whatever ranking he had).
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Lloyd Moore by far!
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In my fandom I'd say Jamail Jones or Erik Williams. That being said if I remember correctly Jamal Ferguson was a 5 star at commitment and dropped to 3 star by the time he arrived so at the time of commitment he had huge expectations
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In my fandom I'd say Jamail Jones or Erik Williams. That being said if I remember correctly Jamal Ferguson was a 5 star at commitment and dropped to 3 star by the time he arrived so at the time of commitment he had huge expectations
I don't think he was ever ranked that high.
https://marquettewire.org/3781419/tribune/tribune-sports/marquette-lands-its-first-recruit-of-2012-class/
"On Thursday, Marquette coach Buzz Williams landed the first player of his 2012 recruiting class in guard Jamal Ferguson, ranked as the No. 69 player of the class according to Rivals.com."
Nice.
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I don't think he was ever ranked that high.
https://marquettewire.org/3781419/tribune/tribune-sports/marquette-lands-its-first-recruit-of-2012-class/
"On Thursday, Marquette coach Buzz Williams landed the first player of his 2012 recruiting class in guard Jamal Ferguson, ranked as the No. 69 player of the class according to Rivals.com."
Nice.
When he committed he was #69 on Rivals and #62 on ESPN.
When he signed he was #127 on Rivals and #237 on 247's composite.
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I don't think he was ever ranked that high.
https://marquettewire.org/3781419/tribune/tribune-sports/marquette-lands-its-first-recruit-of-2012-class/
"On Thursday, Marquette coach Buzz Williams landed the first player of his 2012 recruiting class in guard Jamal Ferguson, ranked as the No. 69 player of the class according to Rivals.com."
Nice.
Thanks for the fact check. My bad everyone
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Recruits/transfers that did not live up to expectation: Erik Williams, Jamail Jones, Jamil Wilson, Harry Froling, JaJuan Johnson, Dameon Mason, Joey Hauser, Luke, mythical big man that Crean could never land, Mbakwe.
Exceeded expectations: Gardner. Lazar. Butler. Jae. Markus.
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When he committed he was #69 on Rivals and #62 on ESPN.
When he signed he was #127 on Rivals and #237 on 247's composite.
Good job by 247.
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Recruits/transfers that did not live up to expectation: Erik Williams, Jamail Jones, Jamil Wilson, Harry Froling, JaJuan Johnson, Dameon Mason, Joey Hauser, Luke, mythical big man that Crean could never land, Mbakwe.
Exceeded expectations: Gardner. Lazar. Butler. Jae. Markus.
I actually disagree about Jae. He was the juco NPOY and we had seen what Butler and DJO were in 09-10 so idk about you all but I had huge expectations.
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Recruits/transfers that did not live up to expectation: Erik Williams, Jamail Jones, Jamil Wilson, Harry Froling, JaJuan Johnson, Dameon Mason, Joey Hauser, Luke, mythical big man that Crean could never land, Mbakwe.
Exceeded expectations: Gardner. Lazar. Butler. Jae. Markus.
just off the top of my head: Sandy Cohen, Juan Anderson
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just off the top of my head: Sandy Cohen, Juan Anderson
That Juan Anderson mixtape is why I can never trust a mixtape again.
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Lloyd Moore by far!
Roman Muller as well, but then he was the biggest sleeper of all time! ;)
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That Juan Anderson mixtape is why I can never trust a mixtape again.
Turned into an NBA player...
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Niv Berkowitz...the guy that one longtime NBA scout said reminded him of Pete Maravich, and who caused an MU fan to say he would no longer worry when Travis needed a rest....
https://247sports.com/college/marquette/Article/High-majors-after-Gardner-Webb-transfer-Jose-Perez-146263314
"Through the years, I never saw a player that played with the same style as Pistol Pete until I saw the tapes of Niv," Fleisher said. "From the tapes he reminded me of a young Pete Maravich, the way he handled the ball and saw the floor, the long hair at the time, the floppy socks, the flare to his game, which is kind of unusual for an international player."
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Berkowitz, who could not begin practicing until Dec. 19, played two minutes in his debut against Nebraska and in those two minutes made quite a splash with his quickness, no-look passes, and deft ball-handling.
"I'll never worry again about what happens when Travis Diener needs a rest," said 1980 Marquette graduate John Maher, who watched from the big-bucks courtside seats.
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Turned into an NBA player...
That doesn't make up for the fact that he was more-or-less underwhelming his whole career at MU. I wouldn't say he was near a "worst" recruit, however.
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Lloyd Moore by far!
Dude.
(https://media1.giphy.com/media/Qyi4BuyovbG3vO9DKR/giphy.gif)
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Roman Muller as well, but then he was the biggest sleeper of all time! ;)
IIRC he was dubbed the biggest sleeper since Rip Van Winkle.
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I'll go with Lloyd Moore as the most disappointing and the most surprising, Roney Eford.
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On the downside,
Gerald Posey
Keith Stewart
Charles Brakes
On the upside:
Tony Smith
Tony Miller
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How about Jimmy Butler for biggest surprise? Recall he was seen only as a second fiddle to Joseph Fulce. Of course, Fulce never meet his potential, but by senior year we had Jimmy Buckets taking responsibility at the end of games and playing lock down defense against Tu Holloway. He totally rose above what was anticipated.
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I think one of the recruits I was most excited for was Nick Noskowiak. A top 100 pg that helped recruit Ellenson yet never suited up. He was granted a release from his LOI and ended up at Iowa State long enough to take a sip of tea. Seemed like a drugs and alcohol situation because last I heard he was at a JUCO in Kansas and crickets since. It seemed like he was the great home state hope that you see every 20 years.
Exceeded expectations: John Dawson when he got the the floor time.
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In my fandom I'd say Jamail Jones or Erik Williams. That being said if I remember correctly Jamal Ferguson was a 5 star at commitment and dropped to 3 star by the time he arrived so at the time of commitment he had huge expectations
I thought Williams was going to be really good. Not sure how much his foot injury his senior year of HS hurt his development.
At least he can tell his kids he started over Jae Crowder.
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Rod Grosse
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Scott Christopherson was like top 25 as a sophomore when he committed.
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Going back a ways -- Kerry Trotter and Walter Downing
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Here's a list of recent commits not exactly murders row. Reading down I was amazed how many transferred. I remember most of these guys and the excitement of signing them now looking back and thinking man was he a disappointment
https://247sports.com/college/marquette/Sport/Basketball/AllTimeRecruits/
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Niv Berkowitz...the guy that one longtime NBA scout said reminded him of Pete Maravich, and who caused an MU fan to say he would no longer worry when Travis needed a rest....
https://247sports.com/college/marquette/Article/High-majors-after-Gardner-Webb-transfer-Jose-Perez-146263314
"Through the years, I never saw a player that played with the same style as Pistol Pete until I saw the tapes of Niv," Fleisher said. "From the tapes he reminded me of a young Pete Maravich, the way he handled the ball and saw the floor, the long hair at the time, the floppy socks, the flare to his game, which is kind of unusual for an international player."
______
Berkowitz, who could not begin practicing until Dec. 19, played two minutes in his debut against Nebraska and in those two minutes made quite a splash with his quickness, no-look passes, and deft ball-handling.
"I'll never worry again about what happens when Travis Diener needs a rest," said 1980 Marquette graduate John Maher, who watched from the big-bucks courtside seats.
Which one of you fools is John Maher?
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Lloyd Chocolate Moose Moore gets my vote. Supposed to be something special. Was something that could barely be classified ordinary.
Jamil Jones, the big man who did no play inside, and Joe Fulce are on my list.
What about Tom Copa? Someone else who never lived up to the hype.
DWade was the biggest surprise ever as a recruit. We knew we had someone who was good. We didn't know we had one of the best ever to play for us.
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Copa had a cup of coffee in the NBA.
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Copa had a cup of coffee in the NBA.
Might be better characterized as a teaspoon.
My recollection was he was supposed to be a game-changer. He wasn't.
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Lloyd Chocolate Moose Moore gets my vote. Supposed to be something special. Was something that could barely be classified ordinary.
Jamil Jones, the big man who did no play inside, and Joe Fulce are on my list.
What about Tom Copa? Someone else who never lived up to the hype.
DWade was the biggest surprise ever as a recruit. We knew we had someone who was good. We didn't know we had one of the best ever to play for us.
I don’t think Jamail Jones was ever considered a big man. I think he was always a wing and a sharpshooter. The disappointment for me was he never turned into the shooter he was billed to be. That would have been big for a Buzz team.
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Scott Christopherson was like top 25 as a sophomore when he committed.
"Diener with hops"
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2005/03/marquette-lands-another-tremendous.html
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"Diener with hops"
http://www.crackedsidewalks.com/2005/03/marquette-lands-another-tremendous.html
Hahaha Dodd's a "guru"
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I don’t think Jamail Jones was ever considered a big man. I think he was always a wing and a sharpshooter. The disappointment for me was he never turned into the shooter he was billed to be. That would have been big for a Buzz team.
Yup. And Fulce was really the victim of injuries.
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Lloyd Chocolate Moose Moore gets my vote. Supposed to be something special. Was something that could barely be classified ordinary.
I always thought it was ironic that Majerus would not play him because hew was out of shape.
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"Things are looking way up for the future of Marquette basketball. Expect to see many three guard lineups, with Dominic James, Jerel McNeal, Wesley Matthews, Anthony Green, Matt Mortensen and Scott Christopherson all coming in the next three years."
What ever happened to Matt Mortensen? I know he got kicked off the team but I don't know why or where he went.
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Mortenson and Amo got run at the same time. Lots of rumors and innuendoes. IIRC, the AD said something along the lines of ...most egregious actions... referencing what Mortenson had done.
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"Things are looking way up for the future of Marquette basketball. Expect to see many three guard lineups, with Dominic James, Jerel McNeal, Wesley Matthews, Anthony Green, Matt Mortensen and Scott Christopherson all coming in the next three years."
What ever happened to Matt Mortensen? I know he got kicked off the team but I don't know why or where he went.
Pretty sure Mort was betting on college basketball games. He was banned by the NC2A iirc.
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I remember Mike Deane would excitedly rattle off Bart Miller's stats from his high school game the night before.
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The Good: Amal and Jimmy arrived as teammates' luggage.
The Bad: JJJ had Jeff Goodman saying he was a sleeper one and done, Buzz's annual Top 100 swing man who would transfer
The Ugly: Harry & Niv, one day we're lucky to steal them from the NBA, the next day they're Scoop Memes
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Pretty sure Mort was betting on college basketball games. He was banned by the NC2A iirc.
I don’t know about batting but he did get popped for steroids. He was later kicked off his JUCO team for showboating during warmups
and telling the coach to F off. Now... https://twitter.com/mattwmortensen. As for his buddy Amo, his ego grew out of control after the GAS title game and the coaches had enough of him buy the end of the season.
For me, Mason is #1. He was going to take Wade’s spot and some had him as better than Shannon Brown who was going to MSU out of Chicago. Not even close, but he was a legend in his own mind.
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Copa had a cup of coffee in the NBA.
Also found out he did play for the La Crosse Bobcats right after his little nba stint
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Lloyd Moore most disappointing, but he was a super nice guy.
Biggest happy surprise- Chris Crawford
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From my years at Marquette
Biggest surprise on the upside: Michael Wilson.
Most disappointing: Dean Marquardt, Artie Green.
Post-graduation to pre-my-time-on-Scoop (1983-2010)
Biggest surprise on the upside: Tony Smith, Amal McCaskill, Tony Miller, Chris Crawford, Ousmane Barro, Jimmy Butler.
Most disappointing: Lloyd Moore, Walter Downing, Roman Muller, Tom Copa, Rod Grosse, William Gates, Trevor Mbakwe, Jeronne Maymon, Erik Williams.
2010-Present
Biggest surprise on the upside: Davante Gardner, Sacar Anim, Markus Howard, Sam Hauser, Andrew Rowsey, Theo John.
Most disappointing: Jamail Jones, Juan Anderson, Jamil Wilson, Steve Taylor, JaJuan Johnson, Deonte Burton, Sandy Cohen, Harry Froling, Joey Hauser, Ed Morrow, Joseph Chartouney.
If I had to do overall ...
Biggest surprise on the upside: Jimmy Butler and Davante Gardner. One was a juco who few had heard of but went on to be a stud who won numerous games for us; the other was a low-rated, vertically challenged guy who went on to be a valuable contributor for an Elite Eight team.
Most disappointing: Lloyd Moore. He was a much-hyped, can't-miss guy ... until it turned out he could barely get out of his own way. Excelled mostly on the buffet line. Runners-up (for a variety of reasons): Downing, Gates, Jamil, Froling.
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From my years at Marquette
Biggest surprise on the upside: Michael Wilson.
Most disappointing: Dean Marquardt, Artie Green.
Post-graduation to pre-my-time-on-Scoop (1983-2010)
Biggest surprise on the upside: Tony Smith, Amal McCaskill, Tony Miller, Chris Crawford, Ousmane Barro, Jimmy Butler.
Most disappointing: Lloyd Moore, Walter Downing, Roman Muller, Tom Copa, Rod Grosse, William Gates, Trevor Mbakwe, Jeronne Maymon, Erik Williams.
2010-Present
Biggest surprise on the upside: Davante Gardner, Sacar Anim, Markus Howard, Sam Hauser, Andrew Rowsey, Theo John.
Most disappointing: Jamail Jones, Juan Anderson, Jamil Wilson, Steve Taylor, JaJuan Johnson, Deonte Burton, Sandy Cohen, Harry Froling, Joey Hauser, Ed Morrow, Joseph Chartouney.
If I had to do overall ...
Biggest surprise on the upside: Jimmy Butler and Davante Gardner. One was a juco who few had heard of but went on to be a stud who won numerous games for us; the other was a low-rated, vertically challenged guy who went on to be a valuable contributor for an Elite Eight team.
Most disappointing: Lloyd Moore. He was a much-hyped, can't-miss guy ... until it turned out he could barely get out of his own way. Excelled mostly on the buffet line. Runners-up (for a variety of reasons): Downing, Gates, Jamil, Froling.
Dean Marquardt was not really a disappointment. He was in that tragic accident that killed his girlfriend and left him with a crushed chest , shoulder, etc. He was lucky to be alive. Took quite a while to get back to playing condition, but he was never the same after that.
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Jamil might not have been the stud his physical gifts could’ve helped him become, but he was far from some giant bust. To put him in the category of biggest disappointment in program history is way off in my opinion.
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Yup. And Fulce was really the victim of injuries.
Tough to play without knees
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Surprised at no "Beast" mentions.
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for the young ones here, what happened to lloyd moore? Like what is the story
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for the young ones here, what happened to lloyd moore? Like what is the story
Ate himself out of a chance to be a really good player.
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Dean Marquardt was not really a disappointment. He was in that tragic accident that killed his girlfriend and left him with a crushed chest , shoulder, etc. He was lucky to be alive. Took quite a while to get back to playing condition, but he was never the same after that.
Yeah, I hate to knock a guy because of injuries. But he was an extremely highly rated prospect from nearby and he just didn't play very well until into his senior year. So it was "disappointing." Same kind of thing for Gates, who obviously was hurting. Maybe Taylor too.
Jamil might not have been the stud his physical gifts could’ve helped him become, but he was far from some giant bust. To put him in the category of biggest disappointment in program history is way off in my opinion.
As I said, "for a variety of reasons." I was so excited when Jamil decided to transfer to MU and I, like many, expected him to be an absolute stud. It was disappointing to watch him play timidly, go through the motions, etc. It was especially frustrating when he'd tease us with a great game only to disappear for the next couple/few games. In my opinion, which is all any of this is.
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Ate himself out of a chance to be a really good player.
explain
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Yeah, I hate to knock a guy because of injuries. But he was an extremely highly rated prospect from nearby and he just didn't play very well until into his senior year. So it was "disappointing." Same kind of thing for Gates, who obviously was hurting. Maybe Taylor too.
As I said, "for a variety of reasons." I was so excited when Jamil decided to transfer to MU and I, like many, expected him to be an absolute stud. It was disappointing to watch him play timidly, go through the motions, etc. It was especially frustrating when he'd tease us with a great game only to disappear for the next couple/few games. In my opinion, which is all any of this is.
Jamil averaged 12, 6, and 2.5 his senior season (and 10, 5, and 2 his junior season). Just don’t see any possible way he’s one of the biggest disappointments in the history of the program. If he is, then his expectations must’ve been NPOY, #1 overall draft pick, and basketball HOFer, which really isn’t fair.
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Jamil averaged 12, 6, and 2.5 his senior season (and 10, 5, and 2 his junior season). Just don’t see any possible way he’s one of the biggest disappointments in the history of the program. If he is, then his expectations must’ve been NPOY, #1 overall draft pick, and basketball HOFer, which really isn’t fair.
You are entitled to your opinion, sir.
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Yeah, I hate to knock a guy because of injuries. But he was an extremely highly rated prospect from nearby and he just didn't play very well until into his senior year. So it was "disappointing." Same kind of thing for Gates, who obviously was hurting. Maybe Taylor too
So, why say “disappointing”. Sad perhaps, but......
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Berkowitz was terrible, so completely overwhelmed once he became eligible that he simply left. Guy couldnt even get the ball up the court. Completely over whelmed, was prolly a D3 type talent no where a high D1 player.
Brandon Bell was pretty disappointing during that period when Cream couldnt dind us a capable point guard. A highly regarded PG his junior year of HS, brother of Charlie Bell n the natl champs MSU. Came in and absolutely stunk. Saw the writing on the wall and left.
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explain
Went from Charles Barkley big to Sumo wrestler big.
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Berkowitz was terrible, so completely overwhelmed once he became eligible that he simply left. Guy couldnt even get the ball up the court. Completely over whelmed, was prolly a D3 type talent no where a high D1 player.
Brandon Bell was pretty disappointing during that period when Cream couldnt dind us a capable point guard. A highly regarded PG his junior year of HS, brother of Charlie Bell n the natl champs MSU. Came in and absolutely stunk. Saw the writing on the wall and left.
That’s not why he left.
.Jamil averaged 12, 6, and 2.5 his senior season (and 10, 5, and 2 his junior season). Just don’t see any possible way he’s one of the biggest disappointments in the history of the program. If he is, then his expectations must’ve been NPOY, #1 overall draft pick, and basketball HOFer, which really isn’t fair.
IMO, the reason Wilson had such high expectations was he was a top 10 kid as a sophomore and the hype train started. People expected first round pick stats out of him based upon that hype when he was 15. Others got better and passed him. He was good but not what people thought he was going to be many years prior.
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So, why say “disappointing”. Sad perhaps, but......
Because the question in the OP was: "Who was our most disappointing recruit?"
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explain
Chocolate Moose was one of the biggest recruits of the Raymonds era. He was recruited in 1982, after being a high school all-American. Before his freshman year, he tore a ligament in his knee. When he showed up on campus, he was like 50 pounds heavier than when he was recruited.
He was badly out of shape his freshman year and played in only 15 games. In short, he was terrible. The Moose transferred to Rutgers, when he played a year and then disappeared behind the same buffet line that beget Refrigerator Perry.
Seriously, the Moose was a bust, big time. It’s sad because he apparently had quite a bit of talent. Would have loved to see the Moose turn to Thunder but it was not to be.
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Jamil averaged 12, 6, and 2.5 his senior season (and 10, 5, and 2 his junior season). Just don’t see any possible way he’s one of the biggest disappointments in the history of the program. If he is, then his expectations must’ve been NPOY, #1 overall draft pick, and basketball HOFer, which really isn’t fair.
Didn't help that "insiders" were saying that he was the best player they'd seen since wade during Jamil's RS year
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Didn't help that "insiders" were saying that he was the best player they'd seen since wade during Jamil's RS year
Exactly. We were expecting D-Wade Lite ... or at least Wes Lite. Instead we got a guy who showed us flashes of greatness but far too often was willing to be mediocre (or worse). It was "disappointing," at least to me, which was exactly what the question in the OP asked.
It doesn't mean he was horrible or bad or I hated him or I wish he never was a Warrior. Heck, the shots at the end against Davidson and his performance against Miami -- those two games alone -- were huge contributions to Warriordom.
He simply wasn't close to what we thought he would be.