Break up California

[Coleman]

Facts don't bear this out as mentioned earlier in this thread. I also know of several people who recently were transferred here who moved out within a year. I just stayed with a friend, democrat, who closed his company which employed over 100 people because he got fed up with taxes and fees on his business. Police came by and charged him fees for having an alarm system, fire dept. inspected and feed him to death because of materials. City and state departments fee'ed him til he said the hell with it.

Those aren't facts. They are anecdotes. There are many others to the contrary

However I am willing to admit that perhaps my perception of California is skewed towards San Francisco and Silicon Valley. Perhaps LA is not experiencing the same growth. Chicos, that is where you live, no? 

[Hards Alumni]

Btw, the company I work for, based in the Midwest, just added several hundred jobs in California (San Diego). Our CEO obviously should have come on Scoop for consulting first  

Well, this is also anecdotal. 

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

No Cal residents answered the question, where are you moving?

[Coleman]

 

Well, this is also anecdotal.  

Indeed. But I never claimed it was anything else! I was just showing you could use anecdotes to argue either way

California is a massive state, you can find hundred of companies moving in, moving out, starting up or going out of business and it's all essentially meaningless without looking at a macro view

[ChicosBailBonds]

Those aren't facts. They are anecdotes. There are many others to the contrary

However I am willing to admit that perhaps my perception of California is skewed towards San Francisco and Silicon Valley. Perhaps LA is not experiencing the same growth. Chicos, that is where you live, no? 

I work in LA County, I live in Orange County.  The California "recovery" is basically an east-west divide.  The coastal cities are rebounding, the inland parts of the state struggling mightily.

The article I posted showing the millions that have left, 4 million MORE have left the state than those coming in from other states says a lot. Population in California is growing from two sources...illegal immigration and in state reproduction.  California used to be a beacon for growth from other states, it hasn't been that way in a long time.

In terms of "growth" in California.  Are you talking the unemployment report (U-3 report) or the real unemployment report (U-6)?  The unemployment reports that the media and Pols like to talk about is the one that doesn't include people that have given up finding work...that is the U-3 report.  Both sides do this, by the way, because it is convenient....it is also intellectually dishonest.  Imaging computing a free throw average for a player and removing some misses because he says he wasn't trying as hard on those shots, thus his FT average improves.  The U-6 unemployment report is the far more accurate report, and actually calculates working eligible people that aren't working...wow...like, you know, actual unemployed.

California according to the United States Labor Department in the U-6 report is at 17.3% unemployment.  Only Nevada is worse.  LA County, 19.8%.  The California unemployment report that is "official" and the media puts out there....8.9%.  Quite a difference between 8.9% and 17.3%.

http://www.bls.gov/lau/stalt.htm

Is it better now than last year...yup...slightly.  Hard not to improve on numbers that bad.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Dude! People are voting with their feet. By moving to California. It's where every educated Asian immigrant wants to be. It's where every computer or electrical engineering grad wants to work, including many of my MU buddies.

You really should read the article I gave to you.  Far more voting with their feet LEAVING than coming.  By several factors. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Btw, the company I work for, based in the Midwest, just added several hundred jobs in California (San Diego). Our CEO obviously should have come on Scoop for consulting first  

 

4 million MORE have left the state than came in from other states.  Facts be damned I guess.


I guess you missed Intel's recent decisions, Facebook, Twitter, Ebay, Oracle, Adobe, Apple, etc....all major expansions, all outside of California.

In 2011, 120 people moved out of the state for every 100 that came in. 

“According to a 2012 University of Southern California study on state demographics, you have to go back to the early 1990s to find a time when more Americans were moving to California than leaving it for other states,” he writes. “Thanks to high housing prices and a weak job market, California is now a net exporter of U.S. citizens to other states.”

Wonderful map here of how people leaving NY, California, Illinois, and Ohio...

 

[ChicosBailBonds]

So where are you moving?

TBD.  We have several options.  Right now, kids situation comes first and not disrupting their lives.  The initial task was to convince my wife, now that the light went on, the rest will come into place.  Most likely a mountain time zone state, though Oregon, Texas are in the mix.

[ChicosBailBonds]

[forgetful]

4 million MORE have left the state than came in from other states.  Facts be damned I guess.


I guess you missed Intel's recent decisions, Facebook, Twitter, Ebay, Oracle, Adobe, Apple, etc....all major expansions, all outside of California.

In 2011, 120 people moved out of the state for every 100 that came in. 

“According to a 2012 University of Southern California study on state demographics, you have to go back to the early 1990s to find a time when more Americans were moving to California than leaving it for other states,” he writes. “Thanks to high housing prices and a weak job market, California is now a net exporter of U.S. citizens to other states.”

Many of you here were blaming the changes on politics, the reality is that California was a classical bubble.  People flocking to the region because of the beautiful weather and diverse landscape.  Companies flocking to the area, because of the ample source of venture capital money in close proximity to large research centers (Caltech, Stanford, Berkeley, Scripps etc.)  This led to an unnatural influx of people to a state without the natural resources (water) to support them (hence new laws).

Rapid overpopulation leads to speculation and large increases in housing prices.  Higher cost of living necessitates higher pay.  Eventually like any bubble it reaches a breaking point, costs are too high to offset benefits and people will leave.  

The whole system regardless of politics was unsustainable.  Other research centers (besides California and Boston) started to do a better job of getting local venture capital money to invest locally.  They took the California model and did it at home in places like Texas (Austin and Dallas), Washington (Seattle), NC (research triangle park) etc.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Just another reason....when "life in prison" means sort of.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/24816456/california-lifers-leaving-prison-at-record-pace

[wildbill sb]

Many of you here were blaming the changes on politics, the reality is that California was a classical bubble.  People flocking to the region because of the beautiful weather and diverse landscape.  Companies flocking to the area, because of the ample source of venture capital money in close proximity to large research centers (Caltech, Stanford, Berkeley, Scripps etc.)  This led to an unnatural influx of people to a state without the natural resources (water) to support them (hence new laws).

Rapid overpopulation leads to speculation and large increases in housing prices.  Higher cost of living necessitates higher pay.  Eventually like any bubble it reaches a breaking point, costs are too high to offset benefits and people will leave.  

The whole system regardless of politics was unsustainable.  Other research centers (besides California and Boston) started to do a better job of getting local venture capital money to invest locally.  They took the California model and did it at home in places like Texas (Austin and Dallas), Washington (Seattle), NC (research triangle park) etc.

+1000

[brandx]

Just another reason....when "life in prison" means sort of.

http://www.myfoxdc.com/story/24816456/california-lifers-leaving-prison-at-record-pace

I'm assuming you think this is a good thing considering your views on gov't spending. Check the cost per inmate/per year sometime.

Of the 860 murderers paroled between 1990 and 2010 that Stanford tracked, only five inmates committed new crimes and none were convicted of murder.

Your state gov't is saving you a lot of money here.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm assuming you think this is a good thing considering your views on gov't spending. Check the cost per inmate/per year sometime.

Of the 860 murderers paroled between 1990 and 2010 that Stanford tracked, only five inmates committed new crimes and none were convicted of murder.

Your state gov't is saving you a lot of money here.

Nice try, not all gov't spending is bad, as I said military spending I have much less of a problem with.  Releasing lifers, yup I have a problem with that.  I'd prefer quicker exterminations...that would also save money.

[brandx]

Nice try, not all gov't spending is bad, as I said military spending I have much less of a problem with.  Releasing lifers, yup I have a problem with that.  I'd prefer quicker exterminations...that would also save money.

I always trusted you and now I find out you you were just playin' me

I saw an ad today where repubs are attacking dems for wanting to cut SS. Come on Chicos, who can I trust

[akmarq]

I'd prefer quicker exterminations...that would also save money.

That people can graduate from a Jesuit university and make comments like this (even if tongue in cheek) always amazes me. Not exactly something the current pope would endorse.

[Hards Alumni]

Nice try, not all gov't spending is bad, as I said military spending I have much less of a problem with.  Releasing lifers, yup I have a problem with that.  I'd prefer quicker exterminations...that would also save money.

It is actually far more expensive for state sanctioned murder.  Plus our justice system makes too many mistakes for us to be so quick to take life.

[GOO]

I just wish enough people would leave San Diego so I can afford that retirement home someday....    I know that won't be happening, however.  The weather is just too nice.

It will be interesting to see how traffic is in LA in 20 years.  With the technology coming up and with CA being the likely first adopter on a big scale, I bet traffic gets better.  God willing, the nerd wanna be in me looks forward to seeing how that plays out.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Many of you here were blaming the changes on politics, the reality is that California was a classical bubble.  People flocking to the region because of the beautiful weather and diverse landscape.  Companies flocking to the area, because of the ample source of venture capital money in close proximity to large research centers (Caltech, Stanford, Berkeley, Scripps etc.)  This led to an unnatural influx of people to a state without the natural resources (water) to support them (hence new laws).

Rapid overpopulation leads to speculation and large increases in housing prices.  Higher cost of living necessitates higher pay.  Eventually like any bubble it reaches a breaking point, costs are too high to offset benefits and people will leave.  

The whole system regardless of politics was unsustainable.  Other research centers (besides California and Boston) started to do a better job of getting local venture capital money to invest locally.  They took the California model and did it at home in places like Texas (Austin and Dallas), Washington (Seattle), NC (research triangle park) etc.

I'm sure there is truth to much of this.  We can't ignore that massive number of people and businesses that have left for reasons that are due to decisions around taxation, various regulatory policies, etc.  It is cited by people flocking out of state all the time. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I always trusted you and now I find out you you were just playin' me

I saw an ad today where repubs are attacking dems for wanting to cut SS. Come on Chicos, who can I trust

Stay away from those ads, both parties suck hairy cats.  Next thing you know one party will claim the other wants to start a nuclear war or will show grandma being pushed over a cliff in a wheel chair. 

Not playing with you Brand....I'm all for the right kind of expenditures and the right kind of taxes.  I certainly pay my fair share and that of many others that don't pay it at all....they are welcome.  I don't like it when we pay people not to work, pay farmers not to grow, etc.  It is counter productive.

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://variety.com/2014/film/news/even-films-set-in-california-are-shooting-elsewhere-to-save-money-1201125523/

[ChicosBailBonds]

Nissan left in the last decade, Toyota announced on Monday

We never learn. 


http://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebuss/2014/04/27/it-makes-sense-for-toyota-to-leave-california-for-texas/

[reinko]

Nissan left in the last decade, Toyota announced on Monday

We never learn.  


http://www.forbes.com/sites/dalebuss/2014/04/27/it-makes-sense-for-toyota-to-leave-california-for-texas/

Governor Rick used $40 million of tax payer dollars to bribe Toyota away from CA.   What's your take on that?   Honest question.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Governor Rick used $40 million of tax payer dollars to bribe Toyota away from CA.   What's your take on that?   Honest question.

Just the invisible hand of the government giving big business a reach-around. Pure capitalism. Totally fine when a R does it, cuz he did the right thing paying lip service to tax cuts and "freedom." Nothing to see here.

[Bocephys]

Just the invisible hand of the government giving big business a reach-around. Pure capitalism. Totally fine when a R does it, cuz he did the right thing paying lip service to tax cuts and "freedom." Nothing to see here.