Break up California

[Hards Alumni]

http://news.yahoo.com/plan-divide-california-6-states-advances-003356451.html?vp=1

I'd like to hear what our Californians here think about the proposed break up.

I'd venture to guess that CBB is for it.   

[keefe]

All we want is to send our Californians back to the Bay Area.

[ChicosBailBonds]

http://news.yahoo.com/plan-divide-california-6-states-advances-003356451.html?vp=1

I'd like to hear what our Californians here think about the proposed break up.

I'd venture to guess that CBB is for it.   

I'm breaking up with the state, so I don't particularly care any more.  Long ago lost, nothing like it used to be.  Sad. 

[WellsstreetWanderer]

I am with CBB, I have been here 30+ years and watched California deteriorate.  Seen  many good people leave and others planning to once they retire. Legislature passes more onerous laws each year.
Soon it will be the Uber-Rich and the underemployed service workers.

[keefe]

I am with CBB, I have been here 30+ years and watched California deteriorate.  Seen  many good people leave and others planning to once they retire. Legislature passes more onerous laws each year.
Soon it will be the Uber-Rich and the underemployed service workers.

What will happen to Barbra Streisand, Ed Asner, and the Scientologists?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I am with CBB, I have been here 30+ years and watched California deteriorate.  Seen  many good people leave and others planning to once they retire. Legislature passes more onerous laws each year.
Soon it will be the Uber-Rich and the underemployed service workers.

I will miss the amazing weather...absolutely amazing and I'll miss the mountains, beaches, forests, deserts.  Unfortunately, the taxes, traffic, cost of living, schools, the outright refusal to enforce our laws, the outright creation of some of the dumbest laws on the planet, etc...we gone.  So many quality folks have left.  Really sad.  We are not far behind.  My wife, a native, is bummed but she finally has accepted reality and said ok last year.  She's been here more than 40 years sans one year in Milwaukee.  Personally, I can't wait.  This place used to be incredible, truly incredible.  It was Disneyland all the time.  4th highest GDP in the world, limited gov't, free spirit..."can do" attitudes, hard working dreamers, etc.  Now the 9th highest GDP, we protect Delta Smelt fish over farmers, we have droughts because we release trillions of gallons of water into the ocean, we give legal documents to people that broke laws and are here illegally...the irony.

Oh what a place it was.

[warriorchick]

I will miss the amazing weather...absolutely amazing and I'll miss the mountains, beaches, forests, deserts.  Unfortunately, the taxes, traffic, cost of living, schools, the outright refusal to enforce our laws, the outright creation of some of the dumbest laws on the planet, etc...we gone.  So many quality folks have left.  Really sad.  We are not far behind.  My wife, a native, is bummed but she finally has accepted reality and said ok last year.  She's been here more than 40 years sans one year in Milwaukee.  Personally, I can't wait.  This place used to be incredible, truly incredible.  It was Disneyland all the time.  4th highest GDP in the world, limited gov't, free spirit..."can do" attitudes, hard working dreamers, etc.  Now the 9th highest GDP, we protect Delta Smelt fish over farmers, we have droughts because we release trillions of gallons of water into the ocean, we give legal documents to people that broke laws and are here illegally...the irony.

Oh what a place it was.

I thought I had heard it all about California until we met a couple while on a cruise of the BVIs who were very well-off arborists.  Apparently in California (or at least where they lived in the San Jose area) you have to get government permission to cut down a tree on your own property.  And said tree basically has to be completely dead or your request will be denied.  This couple made a crapload of money because they were among the few that know how to navigate the reams of bureaucratic paperwork.

[Coleman]

I will miss the amazing weather...absolutely amazing and I'll miss the mountains, beaches, forests, deserts.  Unfortunately, the taxes, traffic, cost of living, schools, the outright refusal to enforce our laws, the outright creation of some of the dumbest laws on the planet, etc...we gone.  So many quality folks have left.  Really sad.  We are not far behind.  My wife, a native, is bummed but she finally has accepted reality and said ok last year.  She's been here more than 40 years sans one year in Milwaukee.  Personally, I can't wait.  This place used to be incredible, truly incredible.  It was Disneyland all the time.  4th highest GDP in the world, limited gov't, free spirit..."can do" attitudes, hard working dreamers, etc.  Now the 9th highest GDP, we protect Delta Smelt fish over farmers, we have droughts because we release trillions of gallons of water into the ocean, we give legal documents to people that broke laws and are here illegally...the irony.

Oh what a place it was.

You guys are also getting a lot of quality folks too. San Fran/Silicon Valley will be the worlds economic center in 20 years, most of the immigrants moving to California are Asian/South Asian, who are the wealthiest people in the country. Their GDP still continues to outpace the rest of the USA. Of course the rank is going to drop, the rest of the world is industrializing. California's brightest days are yet to come.

Btw, where are you moving to?

[WellsstreetWanderer]

I thought I had heard it all about California until we met a couple while on a cruise of the BVIs who were very well-off arborists.  Apparently in California (or at least where they lived in the San Jose area) you have to get government permission to cut down a tree on your own property.  And said tree basically has to be completely dead or your request will be denied.  This couple made a crapload of money because they were among the few that know how to navigate the reams of bureaucratic paperwork.

Was looking to buy a house that had giant oak tree on property. A large branch was literally laying on a neighbor's roof. Because the town is ThousandOaks, I knew I had to get permission to touch the tree. Went to the town hall and spoke to the correct person. I would have to hire an arborist who would prepare a plan. The town would then hire an arborist,at my expense and,most likely, the same one. They would then review the reports and decide.
I asked the guy at city hall if he would every consider buying a house with an oak on the property and he said,"no".  Backed out of the deal.

[keefe]

I thought I had heard it all about California until we met a couple while on a cruise of the BVIs who were very well-off arborists.  Apparently in California (or at least where they lived in the San Jose area) you have to get government permission to cut down a tree on your own property.  And said tree basically has to be completely dead or your request will be denied.  This couple made a crapload of money because they were among the few that know how to navigate the reams of bureaucratic paperwork.

Cal planned to build a Sports Training Complex on University property next to the football stadium. A group of chuckleheads lived in the oak trees for two years to prevent the construction. The cost of this protest was mind boggling.

It is ridiculous sh it like this that makes me think California is utterly uninhabitable.


http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/One-year-into-protest-UC-Berkeley-s-tree-sitters-3233836.php#photo-2376750

[ChicosBailBonds]

Was looking to buy a house that had giant oak tree on property. A large branch was literally laying on a neighbor's roof. Because the town is ThousandOaks, I knew I had to get permission to touch the tree. Went to the town hall and spoke to the correct person. I would have to hire an arborist who would prepare a plan. The town would then hire an arborist,at my expense and,most likely, the same one. They would then review the reports and decide.
I asked the guy at city hall if he would every consider buying a house with an oak on the property and he said,"no".  Backed out of the deal.

Small world...I spent 12 years of my life in Thousand Oaks.  And yes, getting rid of a tree there was quite an ordeal.  It's amazing as a property owner just how much  you don't own in this state.

[ChicosBailBonds]

You guys are also getting a lot of quality folks too. San Fran/Silicon Valley will be the worlds economic center in 20 years, most of the immigrants moving to California are Asian/South Asian, who are the wealthiest people in the country. Their GDP still continues to outpace the rest of the USA. Of course the rank is going to drop, the rest of the world is industrializing. California's brightest days are yet to come.

Btw, where are you moving to?

That's somewhat what Elephant was talking about, sure you get talented people here, our company brings in folks from all over the world.  The total lack of any semblance of enforcing our laws or borders, also brings in folks that are an incredible drain on resources, too.  You end up having a state that is inhabited by the rich and the poor.  Adding far more poor than rich, either through offspring or lack of enforcement.

I don't see how California's brightest days are yet to come.  Will there be times where it is better than today...sure.  Will it be like it was, I sincerely doubt it.  The number of people that have moved out is breath taking.  When I was growing up here it was blasphemy to even contemplate moving out of state.  I was one of the very few that left the state from my high school for college...people couldn't believe it.  People have left in droves and the replacements in population (legal and illegal) hasn't always been an equal exchange.  The amount of money beholden to the state employees now is so large it has strangled the state.  They can't get it under control and this will prevent it from getting back to where it was.  The pension liability is staggering.

[thekahoona]

I'm breaking up with the state, so I don't particularly care any more.  Long ago lost, nothing like it used to be.  Sad. 

Yep. Same here. I grew up in SoCal. I love the outdoor activities that are unique to the state. But, when I was young and stupid I moved to Illinois to be closer to my buds from MU.

Frying pan --> Fire.

Now I am about two years from leaving this place too, but California will not be on the "potential" list.

It's nice to visit to see family, but that's it.

[Coleman]

That's somewhat what Elephant was talking about, sure you get talented people here, our company brings in folks from all over the world.  The total lack of any semblance of enforcing our laws or borders, also brings in folks that are an incredible drain on resources, too.  You end up having a state that is inhabited by the rich and the poor.  Adding far more poor than rich, either through offspring or lack of enforcement.

I don't see how California's brightest days are yet to come.  Will there be times where it is better than today...sure.  Will it be like it was, I sincerely doubt it.  The number of people that have moved out is breath taking.  When I was growing up here it was blasphemy to even contemplate moving out of state.  I was one of the very few that left the state from my high school for college...people couldn't believe it.  People have left in droves and the replacements in population (legal and illegal) hasn't always been an equal exchange.  The amount of money beholden to the state employees now is so large it has strangled the state.  They can't get it under control and this will prevent it from getting back to where it was.  The pension liability is staggering.

So where are you moving?

[77ncaachamps]

Native born NorCaler here.

Saw the boom of Silicon Valley, when it was still utilizing silicon.
Born at the end of the demolition of farmland and orchards which made Santa Clara County famous.

Success here attracts everyone.
Weather here attracts everyone.
Diversity here attracts most.

Growth went unchecked and in some areas still does.

Because of the wealth, the disparities between rich and poor are amplified.

Fortunately, CA is still inhabitable: smaller, denser properties in the cities or larger lots in the country. Commutes remain nightmares since the recovery.

Unfortunately, pushing more residents toward the country means less nature to enjoy and more urban sprawl.

"You get what you pay for" is a relative phrase.
It really should be "If you derive more pleasure than pain, then it's probably worth it."

[ChicosBailBonds]

Success here attracts everyone.
Weather here attracts everyone.
Diversity here attracts most.

Don't tell that to the millions that have left, including many companies like Nissan.  158 companies since Jan of 2013 alone.  254 left in 2011.  Only 59 in 2009.....anyone see a trend?

Over 4 million MORE people have left the state than have come in from other states.  AMAZING.

Chevron-Texaco now has more employees in Texas now than California....something my dad, a petroleum geologist geophysicist is probably spinning in his grave about.

When you have the CEO of Intel saying California is on the downhill, that's speaking volumes.  http://blogs.wsj.com/digits/2012/10/03/intel-otellini-california-greece/     As a result, Intel chose to expand out of state, in Oregon, resulting in $8 billion moving out of the state.

Down here, movie business continues to leave because of the outrageous taxes.  So much so that now the state is trying to incentivize the movie industry to shoot in California with low taxes...wait, low taxes drives business.  Oh the irony.

A pretty good article about a year and a half ago of the exodus from the state and how it used to be.  Very sad. Article written by a US Demographer and self proclaimed Truman Democrat

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304444604577340531861056966



 

[brandx]

Don't tell that to the millions that have left, including many companies like Nissan.  158 companies since Jan of 2013 alone.  254 left in 2011.  Only 59 in 2009.....anyone see a trend?
 

No - the information is meaningless because it is incomplete. How many companies came to California in those same years. Without that information, the rest doesn't tell me anything. Companies move all the time to and from many different states.

[77ncaachamps]

No - the information is meaningless because it is incomplete. How many companies came to California in those same years. Without that information, the rest doesn't tell me anything. Companies move all the time to and from many different states.

And for different reasons.

Not to mention those started in CA and moving employees in.

CA may not be ideal for some business but it has its advantages.

[warriorchick]

And for different reasons.

Not to mention those started in CA and moving employees in.

CA may not be ideal for some business but it has its advantages.

Such as?

Its employment laws are ridiculously biased towards workers.
The workers comp rates are unbelievable (a company I worked for had a 5% rate in Illinois - in California the state's fixed rate was 19% for our industry).
Environmental regulations are crazy.
Cost of living and taxes are among the highest in the U.S.

I could go on and on.  The same company I mentioned above expanded while I worked there from 7 states to all 50, and California was the absolute last one we entered, and only because we had to in order to obtain nationwide contracts.

[brandx]

Such as?

Its employment laws are ridiculously biased towards workers.
The workers comp rates are unbelievable (a company I worked for had a 5% rate in Illinois - in California the state's fixed rate was 19% for our industry).
Environmental regulations are crazy.
Cost of living and taxes are among the highest in the U.S.

So you would prefer that the companies be allowed to add poisons to the air & water?

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Please!    Who Wants to breath bad air or drink polluted water.? When lawmakers and beaurocrats impede the ability of companies to do honest business ,everyone suffers.
Don't forget we're called the land of Fruits and Nuts for a reason. Wacko fringe politicians passing laws that feel good but ignore the reality of us intended consequences.
Dude! People are voting with their feet.

[Coleman]

Such as?

Its employment laws are ridiculously biased towards workers.
The workers comp rates are unbelievable (a company I worked for had a 5% rate in Illinois - in California the state's fixed rate was 19% for our industry).
Environmental regulations are crazy.
Cost of living and taxes are among the highest in the U.S.

I could go on and on.  The same company I mentioned above expanded while I worked there from 7 states to all 50, and California was the absolute last one we entered, and only because we had to in order to obtain nationwide contracts.

Yet every new technology company wants to be there

[Coleman]

Please!    Who Wants to breath bad air or drink polluted water.? When lawmakers and beaurocrats impede the ability of companies to do honest business ,everyone suffers.
Don't forget we're called the land of Fruits and Nuts for a reason. Wacko fringe politicians passing laws that feel good but ignore the reality of us intended consequences.
Dude! People are voting with their feet.

Dude! People are voting with their feet. By moving to California. It's where every educated Asian immigrant wants to be. It's where every computer or electrical engineering grad wants to work, including many of my MU buddies.

[Coleman]

Btw, the company I work for, based in the Midwest, just added several hundred jobs in California (San Diego). Our CEO obviously should have come on Scoop for consulting first  

[WellsstreetWanderer]

Dude! People are voting with their feet. By moving to California. It's where every educated Asian immigrant wants to be. It's where every computer or electrical engineering grad wants to work, including many of my MU buddies.

Facts don't bear this out as mentioned earlier in this thread. I also know of several people who recently were transferred here who moved out within a year. I just stayed with a friend, democrat, who closed his company which employed over 100 people because he got fed up with taxes and fees on his business. Police came by and charged him fees for having an alarm system, fire dept. inspected and feed him to death because of materials. City and state departments fee'ed him til he said the hell with it.