Heat/Spurs Game 6

[NavinRJohnson]

PG - Kyrie Irving
SG- Dion Waiters
SF - Lebron James
PF - Tristan Thomas
C - Nerlans Noel

That is a pretty good team.  And there is plenty of money for someone to come along and play with him.

Doesn't include next year's potential lottery pick either.

[GGGG]

PG - Kyrie Irving
SG- Dion Waiters
SF - Lebron James
PF - Tristan Thomas
C - Nerlans Noel

That is a pretty good team.  And there is plenty of money for someone to come along and play with him.

You could put the third guy on any roster and make it a "pretty good team."

[forgetful]

Lebron James could be hit by a car tomorrow, and he'd have a better career than Larry Bird did.

And really, the Oscar Robertson thing is very misguided.

And while I loved Magic, you need to account for the fact that he was at best an average defender...whereas James is an elite defender.

This makes me think that you never watched Larry Legend play.  He averaged 24, 10 and 6 for his entire career, while out shooting Lebron from every spot on the floor, all this while having a completely broken body.  Bird did absurd things to will his team to victory, things Lebron hasn't done yet in his career, despite having infinitely more athleticism. 

As for Robertson, he averaged a triple double...no one else has ever done that.  Saying the caliber of teams weren't the same then...well we could say with all the NBA expansion talent in the NBA is diluted so much that Lebron's abilities are artificially inflated.  Legitimate argument maybe, can't prove anything, so until we can reincarnate people I'll stick with the guy that did something no one else ever has.

Magic...hands down.  Lebron is a very very overrated defender.  Yeah, he can guard all 5 positions, but not well.  Just like Magic, not a great overall defender, but could guard all 5 players. 

Someone else posted about defending Parker, he had an almost completely torn hamstring and he didn't guard him the whole game.  When he was on Leonard, Leonard lit him up.  They put him on Ginobli and he shot right over him.  Lebron gets his reputation as a defender because of flashy blocks...on ball he has poor lateral quickness and players easily take him off the bounce.  Watch him every play, poor help defense, poor on the ball defense a few showcase blocks that get you out of your chair...I'd rather have no flash and a shutdown defender.

[Sunbelt15]

PG - Kyrie Irving
SG- Dion Waiters
SF - Lebron James
PF - Tristan Thomas
C - Nerlans Noel

That is a pretty good team.  And there is plenty of money for someone to come along and play with him.

Pretty good team on paper.

[GGGG]

This makes me think that you never watched Larry Legend play.  He averaged 24, 10 and 6 for his entire career, while out shooting Lebron from every spot on the floor, all this while having a completely broken body.  Bird did absurd things to will his team to victory, things Lebron hasn't done yet in his career, despite having infinitely more athleticism. 

Lebron...27/7.3/6.9   Fairly similar.  Bird a better shooter.  James a much better defender.

And please, the last sentence is complete trash.  What "absurd" things did Bird do to "will his team to victory?"  And tell me how that wasn't done by Lebron in this series.

As for Robertson, he averaged a triple double...no one else has ever done that.  Saying the caliber of teams weren't the same then...well we could say with all the NBA expansion talent in the NBA is diluted so much that Lebron's abilities are artificially inflated. 

Well actually no we couldn't.  Robertson played at a time when defenses were terrible and he was simply more athletic than anyone else.  (A point that you seem to hold against Lebron.)  The game being played back then bears no resemblance to the game being played now.

Magic...hands down.  Lebron is a very very overrated defender.  Yeah, he can guard all 5 positions, but not well.  Just like Magic, not a great overall defender, but could guard all 5 players. 

I think you need a new television set because yours apparently doesn't work.  "Overrated defender?"  I really think you need to watch a little more basketball.

[Hards Alumni]

This makes me think that you never watched Larry Legend play.  He averaged 24, 10 and 6 for his entire career, while out shooting Lebron from every spot on the floor, all this while having a completely broken body.  Bird did absurd things to will his team to victory, things Lebron hasn't done yet in his career, despite having infinitely more athleticism. 

As for Robertson, he averaged a triple double...no one else has ever done that.  Saying the caliber of teams weren't the same then...well we could say with all the NBA expansion talent in the NBA is diluted so much that Lebron's abilities are artificially inflated.  Legitimate argument maybe, can't prove anything, so until we can reincarnate people I'll stick with the guy that did something no one else ever has.

Magic...hands down.  Lebron is a very very overrated defender.  Yeah, he can guard all 5 positions, but not well.  Just like Magic, not a great overall defender, but could guard all 5 players. 

Someone else posted about defending Parker, he had an almost completely torn hamstring and he didn't guard him the whole game.  When he was on Leonard, Leonard lit him up.  They put him on Ginobli and he shot right over him.  Lebron gets his reputation as a defender because of flashy blocks...on ball he has poor lateral quickness and players easily take him off the bounce.  Watch him every play, poor help defense, poor on the ball defense a few showcase blocks that get you out of your chair...I'd rather have no flash and a shutdown defender.

Your username is especially relevant.

I guess that a 5 time all NBA defender is totally overrated.

Get real.

[forgetful]

Lebron...27/7.3/6.9   Fairly similar.  Bird a better shooter.  James a much better defender.

And please, the last sentence is complete trash.  What "absurd" things did Bird do to "will his team to victory?"  And tell me how that wasn't done by Lebron in this series.


Well actually no we couldn't.  Robertson played at a time when defenses were terrible and he was simply more athletic than anyone else.  (A point that you seem to hold against Lebron.)  The game being played back then bears no resemblance to the game being played now.


I think you need a new television set because yours apparently doesn't work.  "Overrated defender?"  I really think you need to watch a little more basketball.

We clearly disagree, neither of us will change our minds.  But at least for point 1, here is an example of smart clutch play from Bird, baited one of the all time great point guards to throw it just where he wanted it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_RJ5XN8TK8

Or we could go to the 91 series where he was injured and had to leave the game and came back to lead the team to victory.

Also I'm not alone in my opinions.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-120301/nba-lebron-james-all-time-greats

Granted they like Lebron over Robertson.

[forgetful]

Your username is especially relevant.

I guess that a 5 time all NBA defender is totally overrated.

Get real.

Honestly, NBA awards and honors mean nothing.  Others have pointed it out in terms of MVP awards.  If you had to pick a team solely based on defense, offense having no role whatsoever, you would have to be an idiot to choose Lebron. 

[jmayer1]

PG - Kyrie Irving
SG- Dion Waiters
SF - Lebron James
PF - Tristan Thomas
C - Nerlans Noel

That is a pretty good team.  And there is plenty of money for someone to come along and play with him.

Besides Irving, that's a lot of potential and not much actual production yet (obviously those guys are young). I'm not as high on Waiters and Thompson, and we'll see if Noel/#1 pick in a weak draft is ready. If I'm Lebron, not sure if that's enough to get me to come back home. Does he really want to take a chance on those guys' potential/wait for them to grow after having just won 2 (maybe 3) titles in Miami?

If he leaves it may be tough for him to find a team with the right mix of established veterans/young potential on a team that also has enough cap flexibility to sign him under the stricter CBA.

[Hards Alumni]

Besides Irving, that's a lot of potential and not much actual production yet (obviously those guys are young). I'm not as high on Waiters and Thompson, and we'll see if Noel/#1 pick in a weak draft is ready. If I'm Lebron, not sure if that's enough to get me to come back home. Does he really want to take a chance on those guys' potential/wait for them to grow after having just won 2 (maybe 3) titles in Miami?

If he leaves it may be tough for him to find a team with the right mix of established veterans/young potential on a team that also has enough cap flexibility to sign him under the stricter CBA.

Its a lot of potential that many other teams won't have after next year, which is really my point.  Obviously, there will be a bunch of big time retirements over the next year or two, so yes, a lot could change.  I just think that in the next year or two the Cavs could set the table nicely for Lebron to take his talents back to the mistake by the lake.  Plus, the Cavs will be flush with cash, and could probably sign not just LBJ, but another star as well.

[keefe]

People in L.A. talking hard the last 6 months that they will make a hard run at him.  I don't think it happens, but just saying.  I'd love to see him go back to Cleveland, but think the owner didn't do himself any favors when he made his comments and continued to make his comments.

Then there is whole lifestyle thing...South Beach or Cleveland? Fulfillment in life distills down to just a few basics but location is certainly one of them. Since he isn't actually from Cleveland I wonder what the draw would be for him.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Honestly, NBA awards and honors mean nothing.  Others have pointed it out in terms of MVP awards.  If you had to pick a team solely based on defense, offense having no role whatsoever, you would have to be an idiot to choose Lebron. 

Others have opined about MVP awards, but none of it is necessarily true.  Shaq was dominant in his day and he only won one.   Much of it is about timing, who else is good, etc, etc.  I would hardly call putting Lebron on a team based on his defensive abilities an idiot.  Not many players can defend Tony Parker for half of one game, slide over to defend their center, defend their interior power forward but also have the ability to defend the 2 guard effectively, all in the same game while logging 45 minutes and being asked to score 30 points per game.

[Lennys Tap]

Others have opined about MVP awards, but none of it is necessarily true.  Shaq was dominant in his day and he only won one.   Much of it is about timing, who else is good, etc, etc.  I would hardly call putting Lebron on a team based on his defensive abilities an idiot.  Not many players can defend Tony Parker for half of one game, slide over to defend their center, defend their interior power forward but also have the ability to defend the 2 guard effectively, all in the same game while logging 45 minutes and being asked to score 30 points per game.

Agree on all counts. LeBron is the best and most complete player the NBA has seen since Jordan. If he was a mean SOB like Jordan, he'd be the best ever. Even given that he basically nice and easy going, he's still in the team photo of the all time greats, just a shade behind Michael.

[MU82]

Who0ps, not Jermaine O'neill, but Rashard Lewis.  Both are alike. 

When they actually could play, Lewis was a 3-point shooter and O'Neal was an inside player.

Then again, they are both tall and black.

So pretty much, the exact same.

[🏀]

Lebron isn't Jordan, but he's all-time starting 5.

1 - Magic
2 - Jordan
3 - Lebron
4- Duncan
5 - Hakeem

[GGGG]

Hakeem????

[nyg]

Hakeem????

Guess he had a better career than Russell, Jabbar, Wilt and Shaq. 

[GGGG]

Guess he had a better career than Russell, Jabbar, Wilt and Shaq. 

I'm hoping he meant Kareem and just misspelled it.

[MU82]

LeBron, Magic and Bird all are/were incredible, not only the individual things they do/did but the way they make/made their teammates better.

Saying one is head and shoulders better than the other doesn't help advance the cause for any. When LeBron's career is finished, he very well could be the best ever, or at least top three. But we're not there yet.

And for those who would give the edge to Jordan just because of the championships, well, I guess that would make Russell the best ever, right?

[ATL MU Warrior]

Someone else posted about defending Parker, he had an almost completely torn hamstring and he didn't guard him the whole game.  When he was on Leonard, Leonard lit him up.  They put him on Ginobli and he shot right over him.  Lebron gets his reputation as a defender because of flashy blocks...on ball he has poor lateral quickness and players easily take him off the bounce.  Watch him every play, poor help defense, poor on the ball defense a few showcase blocks that get you out of your chair...I'd rather have no flash and a shutdown defender.

you are living in a different (and highly delusional) world than the rest of humanity.  Come back to us forgetful!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Someone else posted about defending Parker, he had an almost completely torn hamstring and he didn't guard him the whole game.  When he was on Leonard, Leonard lit him up.  They put him on Ginobli and he shot right over him.  Lebron gets his reputation as a defender because of flashy blocks...on ball he has poor lateral quickness and players easily take him off the bounce.  Watch him every play, poor help defense, poor on the ball defense a few showcase blocks that get you out of your chair...I'd rather have no flash and a shutdown defender.

I posted he guarded Parker, he guarded all 5 positions.  Just as in the Chicago series he was able to guard Nate and a number of other positions.  Very few players have that ability.

He isn't voted to the all defense team by a bunch of morons...in fact his fellow peers also voted him to the team in addition to the writers.

[Sunbelt15]

Jordan is the best ever. The eye test says so. It's not just what you can do on the court, but also how you do it. Nobody did it, on the court, like Jordan. That's why we wanted "to be like Mike".