Latest Notre Dame Scandal

[TallTitan34]

Notre Dame is keeping silent about a St Mary's student who killed herself after she claimed a football player sexually assaulted her.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-met-notre-dame-story-20101121,0,3185959.story

[🏀]

Wow. Can't hide that forever...just like a priest.

So did Notre Dame just transfer the football player to another catholic institution?

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I'm sorry, but this "story" stinks and I don't think it's the ND football program that is responsible for the odor. Say what you want about them, but they're not going to allow a rapist on the field. There's nothing here.

[TallTitan34]

The part that "stinks" is that Notre Dame police still haven't filed a report with the legit police department despite the alleged sexual assault happening months ago.  Don't you think an accusation as severe as sexual assault should be turned in to an actual police department?

In the Declan Sullivan case, ND's Athletic director tried to cover his ass by saying there was a strong gust of wind that came out of nowhere.  That's really strange considering the entire midwest was hit with huge gusts of wind all day.  They have tried to cover their ass with lies before over the death of a student, how do we know they aren't doing it again by not turning it over to the legit police?

During his conference call, Brian Kelly was asked about the incident by a tribune reporter.  Kelly decided to repined with a joke about how the Tribune is bankrupt.  Real classy Notre Dame.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

The part that "stinks" is that Notre Dame police still haven't filed a report with the legit police department despite the alleged sexual assault happening months ago.  Don't you think an accusation as severe as sexual assault should be turned in to an actual police department?

In the Declan Sullivan case, ND's Athletic director tried to cover his ass by saying there was a strong gust of wind that came out of nowhere.  That's really strange considering the entire midwest was hit with huge gusts of wind all day.  They have tried to cover their ass with lies before over the death of a student, how do we know they aren't doing it again by not turning it over to the legit police?

During his conference call, Brian Kelly was asked about the incident by a tribune reporter.  Kelly decided to repined with a joke about how the Tribune is bankrupt.  Real classy Notre Dame.

I cannot stand ND, but for whom are they trying to "cover their ass" over the death of Sullivan? The family hasn't been screaming from the rooftops. It was an inexcusable and completely avoidable death, but what do you think they're covering up? I think it's still be investigated, actually.

And don't you think it's possible that this rape allegation was 100 percent fabricated? I certainly do. Sorry...no way do I think ND would let this happen. Don't you think a wrongfully accused rapist has rights, too? Being an accused rapist is almost as bad as being an actual rapist in the court of public opinion.

[GGGG]

PRN, Tall Titan is right here.  The issue is that the University Police should have moved this up to the county officials like pretty much every university police squad does in cases of serious crimes.  At worse, this thing has an appearance of conflict of interest that could have easilly been avoided.

[TallTitan34]

PRN, my initial thought was that the alligation was fabricated and the girl killed herself when she got caught in a lie.

But then I saw that Notre Dame police never turned the sexual assult report over to the real authorities.  Why would they do that?  Even after the suicide they still haven't filed a sexual assult report with the local police department.  Why is that?

It's still possible my inital thought was correct, but Notre Dame is making it look like something very shady is going on.

[TallTitan34]

I cannot stand ND, but for whom are they trying to "cover their ass" over the death of Sullivan? The family hasn't been screaming from the rooftops. It was an inexcusable and completely avoidable death, but what do you think they're covering up? I think it's still be investigated, actually.

The athletic director's statement was that everything was fine except for one extraordinary gust of wind that took down the lift.  They are trying to make it seem like the wind was a freak occurance that noone could have seen coming. 

Everyone in the midwest knew there were wind gusts of 50 mph or more all day long.  They should have known not to put a kid 60 feet in the air on a lift. 

[MUBurrow]

and for what its worth the family hasn't made a public issue of this, but they have privately hired a formal federal prosecutor to look into the University's conduct after their daughter reported the sexual assault.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

The athletic director's statement was that everything was fine except for one extraordinary gust of wind that took down the lift.  They are trying to make it seem like the wind was a freak occurance that noone could have seen coming. 

Everyone in the midwest knew there were wind gusts of 50 mph or more all day long.  They should have known not to put a kid 60 feet in the air on a lift. 

I agree with everything you said. The ADs comments were an embarrassment. I was nervous just walking down the street that day...falling tree limbs, et. al. I just don't think they're truly trying to cover it up. I think the entire ND community is still in a state of shock over that. And again, I cannot stand ND.

But I think in the case of this tragic suicide, the university has its hands tied as they don't want to comment on this allegation (and rightfully so) because whatever they say will be deemed insensitive or inappropriate. They literally cannot comment at all. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. And suspending this player, as is suggested in the Chicago Tribune today, would be convicting the player. I don't know how to handle this situation, but I don't see anything alarming. Maybe that's just me.

[mu03eng]

I agree with everything you said. The ADs comments were an embarrassment. I was nervous just walking down the street that day...falling tree limbs, et. al. I just don't think they're truly trying to cover it up. I think the entire ND community is still in a state of shock over that. And again, I cannot stand ND.

But I think in the case of this tragic suicide, the university has its hands tied as they don't want to comment on this allegation (and rightfully so) because whatever they say will be deemed insensitive or inappropriate. They literally cannot comment at all. Damned if they do, damned if they don't. And suspending this player, as is suggested in the Chicago Tribune today, would be convicting the player. I don't know how to handle this situation, but I don't see anything alarming. Maybe that's just me.

PRN, I agree with you with the only exception, they absolutely should have turned the charges over to a higher police authority and the fact that they didn't is absolutely alarming.  There is no reason to avoid giving it to a "real" police force to investigate and the fact that they didn't makes it look very shady as TallTitan said.  It doesn't make sense from a PR standpoint let alone a legal and moral standpoint.

[TallTitan34]

I agree with you PRN that the player shouldn't be suspended because charges haven't been brought on him....... but how can charges be brought on him when the University hasn't filed a report.

[Blackhat]

Notre Dame's Response:

Notre Dame will never be silent or passive when it comes to the careful, thorough and fair determination of whether or not laws or university policies have been broken on our campus. This is an important obligation and one that we take very seriously. We have a longstanding, effective and consistent process in place that gathers information, eliminates rumors and makes informed, fact-based determinations, all while adhering to university policies and the federal student privacy laws that restrict us from discussing specific disciplinary cases.

In addition, it is important to note that the Notre Dame Security Police Department is a fully authorized police agency that works closely and collaboratively with local law enforcement agencies, including the St. Joseph County Prosecutor's Office. All investigations of sexual assault are forwarded to the prosecutor's office so that action, if warranted, can be taken.

[MUBurrow]

"Cmooooooooon. Trust us, we're good guys. Why wouldn't you trust us to do the right thing?"
    - Notre Dame

[Blackhat]

"Cmooooooooon. Trust us, we're good guys. Why wouldn't you trust us to do the right thing?"
    - Notre Dame

Sounds like they followed their protocol.   According to them they did nothing out of the ordinary, so unless you can confirm ND is doing something they don't usually do, not sure how they are covering up.

[MUBurrow]

Sounds like they followed their protocol.   According to them they did nothing out of the ordinary, so unless you can confirm ND is doing something they don't usually do, not sure how they are covering up.

Did they???

All investigations of sexual assault are forwarded to the prosecutor's office so that action, if warranted, can be taken.

[Blackhat]

Did they???

They did forward information to the prosecution's office as they say.   Obviously the prosecutor hasn't found enough there yet to charge anyone.   The poor girl died in September and obviously this case was investigated before then.


 I know you want us all to get pitch forks on a whim but sometimes it's better to listen to both sides and look at it from both sides and all angles before acting all enraged like we know the story.

[Pakuni]

The part that "stinks" is that Notre Dame police still haven't filed a report with the legit police department despite the alleged sexual assault happening months ago.  Don't you think an accusation as severe as sexual assault should be turned in to an actual police department?

In the Declan Sullivan case, ND's Athletic director tried to cover his ass by saying there was a strong gust of wind that came out of nowhere.  That's really strange considering the entire midwest was hit with huge gusts of wind all day.  They have tried to cover their ass with lies before over the death of a student, how do we know they aren't doing it again by not turning it over to the legit police?

During his conference call, Brian Kelly was asked about the incident by a tribune reporter.  Kelly decided to repined with a joke about how the Tribune is bankrupt.  Real classy Notre Dame.

The Notre Dame Police Department is the legit police force in these circumstances. It is a certified police force with sworn officers who have the exact same authorities as the South Bend police or the local county sheriff. And, given that Notre Dame is an unincorporated community - not within South Bend's borders - Notre Dame police hold jurisdiction in any crime occurred on campus. They are the local and legitimate police here.
Like PRN, I hate Notre Dame. But I'm not going to rip them without knowing any facts of this incident, nor will I rip them with incorrect facts (i.e. for not contacting a "legit" police force when they have). For all we know, Notre Dame has investigated this and found credible exculpatory evidence clearing the accused.

As for the rest, Kelly is an idiot. But Notre Dame really hasn't done anything wrong in the Declan Sullivan thing  ... after the kid's death, I mean. To the contrary, the school's president has publicly accepted blame for the death. Not sure what else you want, short of firing Kelly.

[MUBurrow]

I know you want us all to get pitch forks on a whim but sometimes it's better to listen to both sides and look at it from both sides and all angles before acting all enraged like we know the story.

yeah thats fair to assume. considering that all the uproar was over the NDPD allegedly not forwarding anything to higher authorities, I think its a fair question to trace what really happened.

[Blackhat]

Somebody owes ND an apology...... 

Beautiful girl, depression is a serious disease.

http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20101123/News01/311239997/-1/XML

[mu03eng]

Somebody owes ND an apology...... 

Beautiful girl, depression is a serious disease.

http://www.southbendtribune.com/article/20101123/News01/311239997/-1/XML

Did you read the article?  The county detective assigned to the case didn't know about the assault allegation until "a couple of days" after the suicide.  I'm not calling for pitch forks, but I think its worth investigating who knew what and when.  I just think this fits into the pattern of lack of institutional control at Notre Dame, and a propensity to not take the moral high road.

[mu03eng]

They did forward information to the prosecution's office as they say.   Obviously the prosecutor hasn't found enough there yet to charge anyone.   The poor girl died in September and obviously this case was investigated before then.


 I know you want us all to get pitch forks on a whim but sometimes it's better to listen to both sides and look at it from both sides and all angles before acting all enraged like we know the story.

The article says they passed info onto the prosecutor but implies it was given after the suicide.  It took them more than 10 days to pass information onto a prosecutor to decide how to move forward?  Again, I don't know that anything untoward is happening at ND with this stuff, but I think there is enough smoke to make it legit to search for fire.

[MerrittsMustache]

As for the rest, Kelly is an idiot. But Notre Dame really hasn't done anything wrong in the Declan Sullivan thing  ... after the kid's death, I mean. To the contrary, the school's president has publicly accepted blame for the death. Not sure what else you want, short of firing Kelly.

First of all, ND's negligence led to Sullivan's death so not doing anything wrong after the fact would be inconsequential. Second, if you really don't think ND did anything wrong after the tragedy, read the AD's comments. He was in full CYA mode and showed very little sympathy.

[Pakuni]

Did you read the article?  The county detective assigned to the case didn't know about the assault allegation until "a couple of days" after the suicide.  I'm not calling for pitch forks, but I think its worth investigating who knew what and when.  I just think this fits into the pattern of lack of institutional control at Notre Dame, and a propensity to not take the moral high road.

Just so we're clear, there's no reason for Notre Dame to have told the county detective about the assault allegation any sooner. Essentially, what they're being ripped for here would be like criticizing the Chicago PD for not informing the Cook County Sheriff's Department of a crime. The ND police have jurisdiction over the case. They have no obligation - nor would it be standard procedure - for them to inform other police agencies every time a complaint is filed.

[Blackhat]

As far as I can tell ND followed their prescribed procedures for handling sexual assault cases.  Unless you can tell me how they didn't, I'm not willing to think ill of them in this instance.   ND essentially has their own police authority and detectives.