Wojo's Seat April 4, 2017

[Pakuni]

The team that made Crean's coaching bones (and won all but 1 of the NCAA tournament games he won in 9 years at MU) was led by a non qualifier (who had an absent Father and a drug addicted Mother) and a product of the MPS system who was the SEC's newcomer of the year at Mississippi St (yech) who had fallen deep into his coach's doghouse there before transferring to Marquette.

Don't get me wrong - I'm not disparaging either one of those guys. In fact, I jumped for joy over Wade's commitment and was ecstatic over the Jackson transfer. They were both risky, though.

Dwyane didn't have an absent father. His father largely raised him.
I disagree on the level of risk but for sake of argument we're still only talking about two players who played a total of three seasons combined. To me, that hardly supports the statement that Crean's successful teams were full of high risk players.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

I call BS. Everybody involved at Marquette from Lovell on down knew that Henry was adios the minute his freshman season ended. I doubt if he even bothered to finish the spring semester. Jae may not have had a chance to complete his degree before his eligibility was finished, but he's light year's closer to a degree than Henry - hell, he was closer to a degree when he arrived than Henry was when he left. Their attitude drips with elitism and hypocrisy with a hint of racism. Cura Personalis, indeed.

Agree 100%. Hey, maybe the plan was for Jae earn his degree in 3 years; redshirt a year, then play 2 years.  But somehow the directions got all fouled up, and one thing lead to another...

Whew!  Now that those mental gymnastics are complete I can feel good about Jae Crowder again.

[Lennys Tap]

Dwyane didn't have an absent father. His father largely raised him.
I disagree on the level of risk but for sake of argument we're still only talking about two players who played a total of three seasons combined. To me, that hardly supports the statement that Crean's successful teams were full of high risk players.

My mistake. Dwyane's father wasn't absent. But Dwyane "absented" himself from him and pretty much lived at his girlfriend's house.

Without Wade (and later Jackson) there is no final four, just five consecutive season of futility to kick off the "Crean era". Doubt there would have been a sixth.

[Marcus92]

FWIW, calling Katin a "stretch 4" is stretching too far. He's a guard who may need to log minutes at "the 4"

Agreed. Calling Dan Fitzgerald a "stretch 4" was a stretch, as well. The term actually fit Steve Novak, in my opinion. And Henry, for the most part.

It's not just about height and outside shooting ability. (That's the reason for the "stretch" part, as in "stretch the floor.") A stretch 4 also has to be able to handle the duties of a traditional 4 — which include hauling down considerably more than 2 rebounds a game.

[Lennys Tap]

Lets' not forget Mike Deane had four straight 20-win seasons and two NCAA appearances largely (or in some cases entirely) with O'Neill players.
The complete antithesis of inheriting a  bare cupboard.

Deane went to the NIT with O'Nell's holdovers. In year 2, with his very own Aaron Hutchins leading the way, he went to the NCAAs.

[Lennys Tap]

I don't think you realize just how bad's Jae's transcript was prior to coming to MU. Not a reflection on his intelligence or capabilities but your statement that Jae was closer to a degree before he transferred here than Henry after a year is flat out false.

You may have a point that they are similarly disingenuous towards education. Henry's situation is certainly more "justifiable" to an outside audience than Jae's is even though both result in no degree.

I guess you're privy to student's transcripts. I'm not. But I'll bet anything Jae left school closer to a degree than Henry did - and everyone at Marquette including President Lovell knew that was going to be the case.

[Pakuni]

Deane went to the NIT with O'Nell's holdovers. In year 2, with his very own Aaron Hutchins leading the way, he went to the NCAAs.

Hutchins was an O'Neill recruit.
As were Pieper, Crawford, Eford, McCaskill and Abraham.

[MUfan12]

I certainly had no desire to paint with too broad a brush.  Certainly many of Buzz' recruits were outstanding kids.  Anyway, my main point was that going forward standards (behavior OR academic) weren't going to be relaxed for the sole purpose of winning basketball games and it's clear that the line moved away from where Buzz wanted it to be.  That doesn't make anyone right or wrong, just different.  Honestly, as much as we all love Jae, I think his admittance when graduation was impossible during his years here really had an impact and got them thinking about other things on the slippery slope, some of which should be considered intolerable at any institution.

Fair enough, appreciate the clarification.

I disagree in Jae's case. His first school losing accreditation was something he had no control over. And the prior administration singling him out was wrong as well.

[MUfan12]

You may have a point that they are similarly disingenuous towards education. Henry's situation is certainly more "justifiable" to an outside audience than Jae's is even though both result in no degree.

Lovell was 100% behind MU bringing Henry in, knowing full well he was gone after a year. I'm still trying to see how this is more justifiable beyond One and Done = Good, JUCO = Bad.

[GGGG]

Lovell was 100% behind MU bringing Henry in, knowing full well he was gone after a year. I'm still trying to see how this is more justifiable beyond One and Done = Good, JUCO = Bad.

Are there APR issues to consider?  I mean if you bring someone in knowing full well they can't graduate within their eligibility "window," is that a problem?

[jsglow]

While I think we've all stated our positions on this and in fact Jae is a fantastic guy from a wonderful family that I got to know a little bit down in Louisville, there's a big difference between his situation vs. a standard one and done. 

'Can't graduate vs. likely won't graduate' as defined by the NCAA requirement to use 4 years of eligibility in 5 years baring extreme circumstances.  Simply put, that's where MU has now drawn the line.  Agree or not, it's a defensible position to take.  It was viewed that the former involved 'using' a person for basketball purposes.  Lots of kids leave college every year and don't finish by their own choice. Heck, Scott Walker even did it. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

It was viewed that the former involved 'using' a person for basketball purposes. 

Jae actually used us....

IMO if this kind of stuff worries schools they should find ways (like MU has done in the past I believe) - to actually help these kids.  i.e. Free tuition to graduate in an orderly period (didn't Trend have to do this?).

The construct above is defensible but misses the key point in my opinion.

Sultan brings up a good point on APR.  clearly that needs to be factored when taking anyone (one and done or other).

[mu03eng]

Lovell was 100% behind MU bringing Henry in, knowing full well he was gone after a year. I'm still trying to see how this is more justifiable beyond One and Done = Good, JUCO = Bad.

Because MU had to jump through a lot of hoops for Jae to come to MU, he wasn't a "standard" JUCO. Having said that he was a victim of circumstances to a large extent so it's justifiable.

The problem is that Jae didn't happen in a vacuum and was part of a culmination of issues that the previous administration took issue with

[GGGG]

How about Facebook posts directly from the victim? Enough proof for me. Jeeze how any alum can still claim that it may or may not have happened is beyond me. Is your whole outlook on life essentially cover your eyes and ears so that you can claim "well maybe it didn't happen, I don't know"

I don't know if happened.  But the issue in this case is whether or not she got treated fairly by the University.  And knowing what I know, she did not.  And Buzz played a role in that.

EDIT:  And this is part of the reason he is gone.  It wasn't just about the Jae Crowders and taking a chance on kids from questionable backgrounds, it is how Buzz acted. 

[wadesworld]

How about Facebook posts directly from the victim? Enough proof for me. Jeeze how any alum can still claim that it may or may not have happened is beyond me. Is your whole outlook on life essentially cover your eyes and ears so that you can claim "well maybe it didn't happen, I don't know"

I don't know what was posted or any of those details but if you believe that, "well it's on Facebook so it has to be true!" then you believe there were no planes on 9/11 and there were bombs set up in the World Trade Centers to knock them down, all these mass shootings aren't actually happening they're just actors and actresses, including little kids, etc.

That's a scary thought.

[bilsu]

Are there APR issues to consider?  I mean if you bring someone in knowing full well they can't graduate within their eligibility "window," is that a problem?

Not if they leave early for the pros. This rule benefits the blue bloods and one of the reasons why the NCAA is seen as hypocritical.

[Dr. Blackheart]

I don't know if happened.  But the issue in this case is whether or not she got treated fairly by the University.  And knowing what I know, she did not.  And Buzz played a role in that.

Actually, the issue was much larger than that.  Certain powers that be tried to make this just an Athletiics only issue, when in fact the law was not followed in this and literally hundreds of cases over most of a decade. 

This case was actually adjudicated properly within the then (and illegal) university policy and processes.  This did not become a criminal investigation until months later.

[MUWarrior4Life]

Wojo on 105.7 @ 8am

[GGGG]

Actually, the issue was much larger than that.  Certain powers that be tried to make this just an Athletiics only issue, when in fact the law was not followed in this and literally hundreds of cases over most of a decade. 

This case was actually adjudicated properly within the then (and illegal) university policy and processes.  This did not become a criminal investigation until months later.

Yes and no.  My understanding is that Buzz did some things that were outside the bounds of what should have been considered proper even under Marquette's standards at the time.

But you are correct that Marquette screwed up the Title IX issue overall and IMO is largely the reason why Cottingham was booted.  (Since he was the legal counsel when the procedures were drafted.)

[mu03eng]

Yes and no.  My understanding is that Buzz did some things that were outside the bounds of what should have been considered proper even under Marquette's standards at the time.

But you are correct that Marquette screwed up the Title IX issue overall and IMO is largely the reason why Cottingham was booted.  (Since he was the legal counsel when the procedures were drafted.)

+1

[fjm]

Wojo on 105.7 right now.
Some things: "we should be able to make up for Henry's points, but the rebounding is what we need to focus on."

Last year: we played freshman 65% of the minutes in the BE which is a lot.

The new jerseys: it is the newest technology and fit from the Jordan brand, and they pay homage to the old classic jerseys, the kids have seen them and they love them.

Guards: expecting a lot from guards this year. He expects TC and Hanni to take a step up.

[MUWarrior4Life]

Wojo on 105.7 right now.
Some things: "we should be able to make up for Henry's points, but the rebounding is what we need to focus on."

Last year: we played freshman 65% of the minutes in the BE which is a lot.

The new jerseys: it is the newest technology and fit from the Jordan brand, and they pay homage to the old classic jerseys, the kids have seen them and they love them.

Guards: expecting a lot from guards this year. He expects TC and Hanni to take a step up.

[Galway Eagle]

I don't know what was posted or any of those details but if you believe that, "well it's on Facebook so it has to be true!" then you believe there were no planes on 9/11 and there were bombs set up in the World Trade Centers to knock them down, all these mass shootings aren't actually happening they're just actors and actresses, including little kids, etc.

That's a scary thought.

I know one of them dumba$$ read the second post on it. That's all I'm saying and I think it's disgusting that you're comparing her to the 9/11 conspiracy freaks.

[MUWarrior4Life]

Wojo on 105.7 right now.
Some things: "we should be able to make up for Henry's points, but the rebounding is what we need to focus on."

Last year: we played freshman 65% of the minutes in the BE which is a lot.

The new jerseys: it is the newest technology and fit from the Jordan brand, and they pay homage to the old classic jerseys, the kids have seen them and they love them.

Guards: expecting a lot from guards this year. He expects TC and Hanni to take a step up.

Thanks 4 the info, can't get that station here at work

[Dr. Blackheart]

Yes and no.  My understanding is that Buzz did some things that were outside the bounds of what should have been considered proper even under Marquette's standards at the time.

But you are correct that Marquette screwed up the Title IX issue overall and IMO is largely the reason why Cottingham was booted.  (Since he was the legal counsel when the procedures were drafted.)

Buzz?  Or some one on his coaching staff? 

Cottingham was largely fired because proper training and enforcement of policies were not communicated, instituted or followed within the department.  When alerted of the incident, an action plan and policy should have followed with the coaching staff and team. Instead, he called in a legal friend of the department.

As to the university policy, Cottingham wasn't in that counsel role for a number of years.  The university counsel should be on top of that particular issue as a normal review, making the university very culpable.  "Ignorance of the law..."

Thus, Cottingham was the convenient fall guy.  Pilarz would have loved to have found a lock tight legal cause to fire Buzz and get out of that contract.