MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: 1SE on February 03, 2022, 03:24:21 AM
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We're sitting on February 3rd far beyond where all but the most optimistic of us thought we would be. Time to recalibrate our overall season expectations.
My head says both us and Shaka need to get the getting past the first round monkey off our backs and that a R32 outcome at the start of the season would have been thrilling to us all and should remain the goal. But my heart says we've beaten 5 t-25 teams, have been competitive in every game since mid-Dec, and have a defense that travels - key to post-season success. So, TBH, I'm going to be a bit disappointed if we don't snag the BET or 2nd weekend this year.
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This year has already exceeded my expectations. I thought we would be better than 9th, but with all the new pieces thought we might peak late and sneak into the tournament conversation at the end.
Anything above a 6 seed in the tourney and our first tournament win since 2013 would be adding a scoop of ice cream on top of an already decadent cake.
Would love a second weekend appearance but all it takes is one team having a lights out night and you are heading home, hopefully the moments continue to not be too big for this very young tem.
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This year has already exceeded my expectations. I thought we would be better than 9th, but with all the new pieces thought we might peak late and sneak into the tournament conversation at the end.
Anything above a 6 seed in the tourney and our first tournament win since 2013 would be adding a scoop of ice cream on top of an already decadent cake.
Would love a second weekend appearance but all it takes is one team having a lights out night and you are heading home, hopefully the moments continue to not be too big for this very young tem.
Yeah, I get crapshoot and all which is why I went for BET title OR S16 - (again my heart thinks) this team is dangerous enough that they should string together a few wins in either the BET OR the NCAAT.
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I’m the guy sitting slack jawed trying to mentally catch up with what is going on. I love it.
My expectations were a team that played hard for Shaka, solid coaching, and a painful offense to watch. I thought Kolek would be a stud, in time. But not adding enough on offense for a point guard; and who’d be hitting 3’s and scoring.
Wow. Still trying to recalibrate expectations with reality in a good way. Fun fun stuff.
I’ll be happy with a NCAA appearance, but voted for one win to get that off our backs and Shaka’s back. Could see getting a few more if things go right for us. All about matchups and still along way to go this season. It I’ll take one win. And a couple of wins in NYC would be nice.
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I am sticking to what I said. No expectations. Just enjoying the ride.
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I am sticking to what I said. No expectations. Just enjoying the ride.
In fairness, you are consistent.
(https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/f/f7/The_Leader.jpg)
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Shaka already massively overachieved so I'm "happy" no matter what. But I won't be satisfied until we get another final 4 so might as well get it earlier than expected
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Going with consistency as well - I just appreciate each game Marquette scores more than 59.
I am sticking to what I said. No expectations. Just enjoying the ride.
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TAMU
This year is as good as any to be playing late in March. Defense travels and so does a team oriented system. This year is giving the faithful a taste of what the future holds for the program.
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I am sticking to what I said. No expectations. Just enjoying the ride.
Yep this. My goal for the team was
1. Play hard, sound basketball
2. Sum better than the parts
3. Fun to watch
4. Get better as the year goes on.
Just out of curiosity, where is the final four this year? ;D
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Going with consistency as well - I just appreciate each game Marquette scores more than 59.
Me, too. But the two losses where MU scored in the 50's didn't bother me. The end of regulation against Creighton where MU was in the 50's didn't bother me. Beating Nova while only scoring in the 50's elated me. Having a fan like you who keeps propping me up about how right I was actually brings a smile to my face. So, thanks. Let's enjoy the ride.
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Going with consistency as well - I just appreciate each game Marquette scores more than 59.
You know we've had more games in the 50s this year than any regular season since Wojos first? That's despite having a top 10 tempo. Tower was correct that there would be games where we struggled to score. Others (and Tower) were correct that we would get better as the season went on. I certainly didn't expect that we would be this much better, glad I was off
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This year has already exceeded my expectations. I thought we would be better than 9th, but with all the new pieces thought we might peak late and sneak into the tournament conversation at the end.
Anything above a 6 seed in the tourney and our first tournament win since 2013 would be adding a scoop of ice cream on top of an already decadent cake.
Would love a second weekend appearance but all it takes is one team having a lights out night and you are heading home, hopefully the moments continue to not be too big for this very young tem.
Our Strength of Schedule is 5th in the nation. With our non-conference schedule plus a brutal Big East schedule, we have grown tremendously. We won at Villanova and had a chance to force OT at Providence.
If Kolek finds some consistently with his shot, we become extremely dangerous. This is the most balanced MU team I’ve seen in the past 30 years with the possible exception of the 2003 team…but they had a HOF player.
We should be playing the second weekend this year for the first time since the peak of the Buzz era.
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TAMU
Again, you are correct on the numbers, but there is more to the story. This team controlled tempo in every game for a month and won in different methods. The points scored does not reflect the overall team capabilities. We never were going to be a low scoring team because defense gives you opportunities to score. Numbers are great, but not everything.
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Our Strength of Schedule is 5th in the nation. With our non-conference schedule plus a brutal Big East schedule, we have grown tremendously. We won at Villanova and had a chance to force OT at Providence.
If Kolek finds some consistently with his shot, we become extremely dangerous. This is the most balanced MU team I’ve seen in the past 30 years with the possible exception of the 2003 team…but they had a HOF player.
We should be playing the second weekend this year for the first time since the peak of the Buzz era.
That’s my feeling exactly. If Kolek shoots with any type of consistency watch out. This will be a second weekend team looking for more.
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I still can't completely shake 7 years of Wojo out of my brain, so my expectations are MU is a week away from a 9 game losing streak to end the season so the fan base can go back to asking if Shaka is the right coach for the program. #Arbys
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If everyone stays healthy, this is a second weekend team.
With the way they can defend, they will be competitive with anyone.
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I still can't completely shake 7 years of Wojo out of my brain, so my expectations are MU is a week away from a 9 game losing streak to end the season so the fan base can go back to asking if Shaka is the right coach for the program. #Arbys
I am slowly coming out of that position, but yeah, I'm kind of like the beaten dog that flinches when someone goes to pet it.
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Look gang, the pundits and most of you were wrong.
When Kur Kuath, Darryl Morsell, Tyler Kolak and OMax showed up on campus, I was sold on the notion of an NCAA berth.
Guys like Kuath and Morsell don't go someplace to play for a ninth place team. Coach Shaka too had a need for redemption after that ugly Abilene Christian loss last year.
Coach Shaka got 12 guys who bought into the concept of team and defense. The rest is history.
Did I figure we'd sweep Nova? Of course not, but I hoped so. Did I figure we'd be good enough for an NCAA berth? Yes, I did.
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Shaka already massively overachieved so I'm "happy" no matter what. But I won't be satisfied until we get another final 4 so might as well get it earlier than expected
All credit to the blog boys who last March put #mubb on their back and said “we got this”
The pen is definitely mightier than the sword.
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TAMU
Again, you are correct on the numbers, but there is more to the story. This team controlled tempo in every game for a month and won in different methods. The points scored does not reflect the overall team capabilities. We never were going to be a low scoring team because defense gives you opportunities to score. Numbers are great, but not everything.
MU started the year without proven scorers. MU had some games where they would have fallen out of the boat and missed water. Lots of possessions with one pass and a three. They got better. They learned how to work for a shot. Their 3 pt shooting has improved. I love the progress and am enjoying the ride.
One guy keeps 'point'-ing out that I predicted games in the 50's. I did. And I was right. I don't think we will have another one in the regular season unless we have a terrible night at Hinkle.
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That’s my feeling exactly. If Kolek shoots with any type of consistency watch out. This will be a second weekend team looking for more.
He's fine on catch and shoot opportunites, he's bad poor to outright bad off shooting 3s off the bounce. More of the former and less of the latter in shot selection would do it.
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He's fine on catch and shoot opportunites, he's bad poor to outright bad off shooting 3s off the bounce. More of the former and less of the latter in shot selection would do it.
Yeah his shots aren't always in rhythm. I think he's still getting used to the speed of the Big East, and he'll stop feeling so rushed.
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Thrilled that we’re relevant again. And if we can keep our poise… sweet 16 is easily attainable. To infinity and beyond!
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don't flatter yourself too much, there were plenty of other know-it-alls proclaiming scoring in the 50's as well...
Me, too. But the two losses where MU scored in the 50's didn't bother me. The end of regulation against Creighton where MU was in the 50's didn't bother me. Beating Nova while only scoring in the 50's elated me. Having a fan like you who keeps propping me up about how right I was actually brings a smile to my face. So, thanks. Let's enjoy the ride.
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I think it was me, TAMU, and J5.
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I think it was me, TAMU, and J5.
And one dude who agreed with J5.
J5 and friend deserve a good ribbing. Their thoughts were a little more along the lines of most games would be in the 50s, that was a silly bad prediction.
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Imagine where we'd be if Shaka had made winning a priority. ;)
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Imagine where we'd be if Shaka had made winning a priority. ;)
I know you don't believe me, but he didn't. That's was so exciting.
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I know you don't believe me, but he didn't. That's was so exciting.
Then I hope he relents a bit and makes it a priority for a few weeks in March. I'll trade just a little bit of the long term "process" for tickets to New Orleans.
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TAMU
Again, you are correct on the numbers, but there is more to the story. This team controlled tempo in every game for a month and won in different methods. The points scored does not reflect the overall team capabilities. We never were going to be a low scoring team because defense gives you opportunities to score. Numbers are great, but not everything.
Maybe by the end season, but we were always going to be a team that on some nights would struggle to score to start the season. That was evident to anyone going to practices or scrimmages. It's a night and day difference now but remember this team managed all of 10 points in the first 16 and a half minutes against UCLA. Fortunately, non-three point shooter Greg Elliott went off for 9 points and alley-ooped a dunk to Kuath to get us to 21 in the last 3.5 minutes ;)
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Yes, it was primarily J5 but Tower plays the “your so vain” role well for this topic.
And one dude who agreed with J5.
J5 and friend deserve a good ribbing. Their thoughts were a little more along the lines of most games would be in the 50s, that was a silly bad prediction.
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I was expecting a losing record this year. 7-4 non-con and 8-12 BE, 15-16 overall, but some competitive losses and getting better as the season went on.
This team has completely blown my expectations out of the water.
I did not expect:
1. The defense to be this good this year, maybe by year three.
2. Kolek to be a true PG and an assist machine. Thought he was a rich man's Jake Thomas.
3. Lewis, Morsell, and Jones to shoot this well from 3. Thought they would each shoot about 5% lower.
4. Role players stepping up virtually every game.
5. Morsell having stretches of clutch iso scoring.
6. Excellent team chemistry on both offense and defense.
My new expectations are 20+ wins, winning BE record, 6 seed or better.
Potential to win BE tourney or Sweet 16. Matchups and luck play a part in the NCAA tournament, so I'm not ready to pencil in a trip to the 2nd weekend.
But there's also the possibility to go on deep tourney run with the right matchups, especially if there are upsets in our bracket. And that's very exciting!
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Tower does get credit for his 20k posts on “process not outcomes” expectation setting mantra he was trying to force on the board however. Gigantic miss there as well.
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Thanks. You play the sycophantic fan boy pointing out accurate predictions very well, yourself.
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Tower does get credit for his 20k posts on “process not outcomes” expectation setting mantra he was trying to force on the board however. Gigantic miss there as well.
He's not really wrong on that either. I mean the win/loss predictions were off, but this season is about process. Ask Shaka himself and he will tell you that this season was all about process and building culture. I doubt even he expected the kind of run we are currently on. He and the team have done an incredible job. Now they have to finish this season strong and then build on it next season.
Though I must admit, I'm hoping for an NCAAT victory for the sole purpose of Texas fan schadenfreude
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If you filter T-Rank from the start of the year (including Creighton) Marquette is the 7th best team in the country. If you filter to January 2nd, Marquette is the 2nd best team in the country. I'll be happy with whatever comes from here, but this team is playing like a legitimate Final Four contender the past month.
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If you filter T-Rank from the start of the year (including Creighton) Marquette is the 7th best team in the country. If you filter to January 2nd, Marquette is the 2nd best team in the country. I'll be happy with whatever comes from here, but this team is playing like a legitimate Final Four contender the past month.
Yes - this - this season as already been a resounding success in "process" regardless of what happens from here out. No one credible is going to call for Shaka's head irrespective of how the rest of the season plays out (speaking of which, where is NLW?)
But we have a team that, right now, is playing as well as almost any team in the country. Yes I want that consistently season on season, but that's no reason not to expect that they keep performing at this level and hope that we reach the ceiling of our potential.
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I know you don't believe me, but he didn't. That's was so exciting.
It's not that I don't believe you, TAMU.
It's that I believe it to be utterly ridiculous that a competitive, high-major coach (in any sport) would intentionally downplay the importance of winning as some sort of culture-building exercise. I'm not sure there are many things - or any things - more important to building a successful team sports culture than winning.
Success breeds success, no?
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The pen is definitely mightier than the sword.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E5zV8dGXEAEtNdZ?format=jpg&name=medium)
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It's not that I don't believe you, TAMU.
It's that I believe it to be utterly ridiculous that a competitive, high-major coach (in any sport) would intentionally downplay the importance of winning as some sort of culture-building exercise. I'm not sure there are many things - or any things - more important to building a successful team sports culture than winning.
Success breeds success, no?
When did anyone say any of that?
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My goal going into the season was to be on the bubble and possibly win a NIT game or two.
Now my goal is at least one NCAA win and I'm pretty sure I'm aiming low with that one.
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When did anyone say any of that?
Seriously?
For weeks leading up to and including the Creighton loss, a certain segment of Scoop preached that, for Shaka, this season is about process and culture, not winning (because somehow they're mutually exclusive?).
And any of us who suggested that this team had realistic NCAA tourney hopes needed to keep our wild expectations in check. After all, KenPom says we weren't a tournament team, so it must be true.
I'm not going to go through every thread, so if you remember things differently, ¯_(ツ)_/¯.
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Seriously?
For weeks leading up to and including the Creighton loss, a certain segment of Scoop preached that, for Shaka, this season is about process and culture, not winning (because somehow they're mutually exclusive?).
And any of us who suggested that this team had realistic NCAA tourney hopes needed to keep our wild expectations in check. After all, KenPom says we weren't a tournament team, so it must be true.
I'm not going to go through every thread, so if you remember things differently, ¯_(ツ)_/¯.
I was one who said that Shaka prioritized the "process" (for lack of better word) over winning this season. It was, of course, a narrative pushed repeatedly by Shaka -- who spoke about a "drip-by-drip process" and about not expecting "instant gratification." Shaka IMHO never meant it as him not trying to win in the moment of each game, and I didn't mean it that way, either.
I don't think Shaka was being dishonest. Some might say it was merely "coachspeak." Perhaps, but I don't think so. If any of us could sit down with Shaka today over a couple of beers, I think he would admit that this team has exceeded his expectations, maybe significantly so.
And obviously, once we actually started to win some Big East games, it very much became about winning this season. Hence Elliott playing as many minutes as Kam and Stevie combined last night even though Greg wasn't hitting his 3s; it's why Joplin never saw the court again despite him contributing nicely in the first half.
So was I "wrong" earlier? Sure. I'll cop to being at least as "wrong" as Shaka was.
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The implication of folks saying this team would struggle to score 50 points at the beginning of the season is that this team would struggle mightily on the offensive end for large portions of the year. That has been wildly incorrect.
It is correct we have played two 40 minute games in the 50’s.
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My new expectation is a banner.
3 ways to get a banner:
- Win your conference
- Win your conference tourney
- Go to a Final Four
Every coach in the last 30 years has delivered on that except for Wojo.
This team has all 3 in their sight.
Let’s go.
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My new expectation is a banner.
3 ways to get a banner:
- Win your conference
- Win your conference tourney
- Go to a Final Four
Every coach in the last 30 years has delivered on that except for Wojo.
This team has all 3 in their sight.
Let’s go.
Pretty much impossible to win the regular season with Providence not making up games against Creightion, UConn, and Seton Hall.
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I was one who said that Shaka prioritized the "process" (for lack of better word) over winning this season. It was, of course, a narrative pushed repeatedly by Shaka -- who spoke about a "drip-by-drip process" and about not expecting "instant gratification." Shaka IMHO never meant it as him not trying to win in the moment of each game, and I didn't mean it that way, either.
I don't think Shaka was being dishonest. Some might say it was merely "coachspeak." Perhaps, but I don't think so. If any of us could sit down with Shaka today over a couple of beers, I think he would admit that this team has exceeded his expectations, maybe significantly so.
And obviously, once we actually started to win some Big East games, it very much became about winning this season. Hence Elliott playing as many minutes as Kam and Stevie combined last night even though Greg wasn't hitting his 3s; it's why Joplin never saw the court again despite him contributing nicely in the first half.
So was I "wrong" earlier? Sure. I'll cop to being at least as "wrong" as Shaka was.
What an absolutely bizarre signature to have on a college basketball fan forum lmao
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Standing by my start of year expectations still of "it'll be nice if we make the tourney." Might feel greedier soon with a "let's at least win one."
Over the moon on where this team is at. It feels nice to be the team that does what Nova usually did to us--wear the other team down and control it.
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Pretty much impossible to win the regular season with Providence not making up games against Creightion, UConn, and Seton Hall.
Impossible? No
Improbable? Yes
If the “luck” metrics are correct, PC could go on a MU2019 like dive. It’s unlikely but possible. That loss stings with respects to big goals.
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Seriously?
For weeks leading up to and including the Creighton loss, a certain segment of Scoop preached that, for Shaka, this season is about process and culture, not winning (because somehow they're mutually exclusive?).
And any of us who suggested that this team had realistic NCAA tourney hopes needed to keep our wild expectations in check. After all, KenPom says we weren't a tournament team, so it must be true.
I'm not going to go through every thread, so if you remember things differently, ¯_(ツ)_/¯.
Okay...but this is different from what you just said. Who said anything about Shaka downplaying winning?
Let me help because I don't want this to be a long drawn out thing. Shaka could have kept at least two of the COVID seniors from last season. He told them to go. He could have made promises to DJ Carton and Dawson Garcia, both of whom made it clear that they would stay for a year and then go pro. He told them to go. He could have recruited a bunch of upperclassmen transfers who were more game ready than the transfers we got. He didn't. He recruited 5 freshmen, none of whom were ranked in the top 75. He recruited Tyler Kolek and O-Max Prosper, two young transfers who no one listed amongst the top 100 transfers in the country and as we saw, were very much works in progress when they got here. He then recruited Kur Kuath and Darryl Morsell, two COVID seniors who were known for defense and leadership, one of whom no one had in the top 100 transfers, and the other was ranked in the 30s-50s by most. And it's not just that these are the guys he landed, we weren't mentioned as recruiting any of the top transfers. This is a different approach from what many first year coaches did this season. Chris Beard, Porter Moser, TJO, they all infused their rosters with high level upperclassmen transfers to varying degrees of success.
Shaka never downplayed winning. No one has ever said that. What they said was, that Shaka's number one goal was to build the program and wouldn't win this season at the expense of that number one goal. That doesn't mean that he can't do both. Shaka could have had a much more formidable day one roster than he put together. The dude knows how to recruit, we could have landed some of those top transfers. Instead, he invested in a bunch of young, less heralded transfers/recruits with the goal of building them up...which will give us a better chance of being better next season than we are this season. Beard, Moser, TJO...they might be better next season than they are this season, but they will likely need to reload on the transfer market more than we will...which is a perfectly fine approach but is susceptible to pitfalls.
To Shaka's credit, he's having his cake and eating it to. We were a bad team at the beginning of the season. We were stumbling against the likes of SIU-E and New Hampshire. We beat Illinois but without Cockburn they are just a team. Beating Ole Miss and West Virginia was fun but time has shown that they weren't very good. We got our clocks cleaned by what has turned out to be a very mediocre St. Bonaventure team. If Shaka had approached the season differently, I doubt we struggle in that way...but I also doubt we see the development that we have. I anticipated development in season, but hot damn what Shaka has done in-season for this team is so f*cking impressive. Can't wait to see how he builds on it.
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If you filter T-Rank from the start of the year (including Creighton) Marquette is the 7th best team in the country. If you filter to January 2nd, Marquette is the 2nd best team in the country. I'll be happy with whatever comes from here, but this team is playing like a legitimate Final Four contender the past month.
What was Marquette's t rank before conference Jan 1?
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I love how this whole board is basically just a Bayesian-Frequentist debate.
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The implication of folks saying this team would struggle to score 50 points at the beginning of the season is that this team would struggle mightily on the offensive end for large portions of the year. That has been wildly incorrect.
I was one of those people and no, I didn't mean that implication at all. I expected us to struggle at the beginning of the season and get better.
It is correct we have played two 40 minute games in the 50’s.
Three 40 minutes games in the 50s. Plus another that after 40 minutes was in the 50s and broke 50s in overtime.
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Shaka said both. He would talk about process etc but he never gave the Tom Crean: it's gonna be a long rebuild speech. He embraced expectations. He made comments at the tip luncheon and other places that he thought he could win now (I took that as be a bubble team).
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What was Marquette's t rank before conference Jan 1?
From the start of the season to December 31st, they were 105th. Quite the turnaround.
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I was one of those people and no, I didn't mean that implication at all. I expected us to struggle at the beginning of the season and get better.
Three 40 minutes games in the 50s. Plus another that after 40 minutes was in the 50s and broke 50s in overtime.
The vague statement is factually true, but the implication as the season moves along is quite wrong.
I believe you so no need to check receipts but others certainly made the 50 point statement with the implication our offense would be poor, which is false.
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Shaka last night when asked what his was and where the team is at: “Our expectation is that we win every game”.
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Shaka said both. He would talk about process etc but he never gave the Tom Crean: it's gonna be a long rebuild speech. He embraced expectations. He made comments at the tip luncheon and other places that he thought he could win now (I took that as be a bubble team).
Shaka said on many occasions that it was not going to be about "instant gratification." He did an interview with The Athletic in which he definitely tamped down expectations. Otherwise, I think TAMU captured things very nicely with his longer comment a few posts back.
Shaka last night when asked what his was and where the team is at: “Our expectation is that we win every game”.
As it damn well should be at this point. And that includes NCAA tourney games!
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The implication My inference of folks saying this team would struggle to score 50 points at the beginning of the season is that this team would struggle mightily on the offensive end for large portions of the year. That has been wildly incorrect.
It is correct we have played two 40 minute games in the 50’s.
FIFY
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Last night was the 288th win of Shaka's career. If we win the games we are favored in per kenpom, he will hit 294 heading into the Big East Tournament. I'm hoping he gets to 300 before this season is over.
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I love how this whole board is basically just a Bayesian-Frequentist debate.
I was thinking of giving you a +1, but this sort of high quality comment is already baked into my expectations of your commenting ability
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I am slowly coming out of that position, but yeah, I'm kind of like the beaten dog that flinches when someone goes to pet it.
Yup. Wojo-Dukiet 7 years of mediocrity can definitely take away from enthusiasm for MU. But Shaka and this team have been fun to watch. Just cannot imagine them getting blown out of a game at this point in the season. Things looking up.
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TAMU,
Thanks for the lengthy response.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
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Last night was the 288th win of Shaka's career. If we win the games we are favored in per kenpom, he will hit 294 heading into the Big East Tournament. I'm hoping he gets to 300 before this season is over.
Hope that means he'll also be hitting 294 (to 65) for a trip to Indy and then back up to Chicago after that weekend.
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TAMU,
Thanks for the lengthy response.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXD6TQmiW18
In the press conference last night, Shaka flat out says that they did not have a schedule this year because they didn't know how good they were. 7:00 mark has the question and answer.
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FIFY
Sure…….
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I was thinking of giving you a +1, but this sort of high quality comment is already baked into my expectations of your commenting ability
Well, now that we've all seen Shaka's posterior we know what we've got
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nXD6TQmiW18
In the press conference last night, Shaka flat out says that they did not have a schedule this year because they didn't know how good they were. 7:00 mark has the question and answer.
I don't see how this contradicts anything I'm saying.
I do see how it contradicts with the idea that there was some yearslong process.
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I think it buttresses what TAMU said. He didn't have a schedule. He was trying to build culture.
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I think it buttresses what TAMU said. He didn't have a schedule. He was trying to build culture.
What does "schedule" have to do with trying to win? And how are building a culture and on-court success mutually exclusive?
I didn't really want to invest the time in responding to TAMU point-by-point (and I still don't) but his claim that Shaka is "having his cake and eating it too" is, IMO, misguided. It's premised on a completely false choice that you can either a) win right away or b) build a culture.
That's bull----, and Shaka is proving it's bull----. Winning isn't separate from building a successful culture, it's inherent to building a successful culture.
What are some examples of college basketball programs with great cultures that got that way by losing?
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I didn't really want to invest the time in responding to TAMU point-by-point (and I still don't) but his claim that Shaka is "having his cake and eating it too" is, IMO, misguided. It's premised on a completely false choice that you can either a) win right away or b) build a culture.
Pakuni, I've never said this. I don't know why you have insisted for months that I have. Let me be clear you can win and build culture at the same time. What I said was that Shaka wouldn't win at the expense of building culture. I hope that clears it up for you.
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Honest question: Do you think that Marquette is the best team in the Big East?
Truthfully, I do. I do not think that there is another team in the conference that is better than Marquette. I think Marquette has a very legitimate chance to win every Big East game they play. I'm not saying that they are head and shoulders above the other top teams in the conference or will win every game, but I honestly think they're at the top. I am well aware of my blue and gold colored glasses, but I don't think that this is a ridiculous take.
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On January 24, 2022 I had a vision that MU would win the national championship.
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On January 24, 2022 I had a vision that MU would win the national championship.
I wanted to do that when I was in Vegas over the summer. Unfortunately, it wasn't available. Instead, I bet on the Browns winning the Super Bowl. It never occurred to me that I might be backing the wrong Ohio NFL team.
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Pakuni, I've never said this. I don't know why you have insisted for months that I have. Let me be clear you can win and build culture at the same time. What I said was that Shaka wouldn't win at the expense of building culture. I hope that clears it up for you.
OK, but when you write about Shaka "having his cake and eating it too," it suggests otherwise. That phrase, in the context in which you used it, literally means he can't win and build culture at the same time.
have your cake and eat it (too)
to have or do two good things at the same time that are impossible to have or do at the same time:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too
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What an absolutely bizarre signature to have on a college basketball fan forum lmao
This is a basketball forum?
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OK, but when you write about Shaka "having his cake and eating it too," it suggests otherwise. That phrase, in the context in which you used it, literally means he can't win and build culture at the same time.
have your cake and eat it (too)
to have or do two good things at the same time that are impossible to have or do at the same time:
https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/have-your-cake-and-eat-it-too
Huh, I honestly didn't know that's how that phrase was supposed to be used. I've always used it to mean "doing two good things at the same time." So this one is my bad
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Huh, I honestly didn't know that's how that phrase was supposed to be used. I've always used it to mean "doing two good things at the same time." So this one is my bad
Next you're gonna tell me that "blood is thicker than water" is about standing with your chosen family, not your actual family.
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From the start of the season to December 31st, they were 105th. Quite the turnaround.
Thanks.
Quite the turnaround indeed! Went from a sub-100 team to a top 10 team overnight.
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Let’s just say Shaka can walk and chew bubble gum at the same time.
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Having expectations leads to disappointment.
I certainly would love to see them make a run at the National Title.
It appears most Marquette fans are hungry to be in the NCAA tourney and win the first game.
Getting to play the 2nd week would be great.
I think any team ranked 20 or less could win the title.
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Huh, I honestly didn't know that's how that phrase was supposed to be used. I've always used it to mean "doing two good things at the same time." So this one is my bad
There’s two ways to skin a cat
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There’s two ways to skin a cat
I've always suspected there could be at least a dozen ways
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My expectations have gone from bubble to championship
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Oops
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Frankly, I don't care how many points we score -- as long as we score more than the other guys.
I want to go back to the Creighton game for a moment. I was one of those people who was really upset by that game. My thought process was less about hiring Coach Shaka or the direction of the program and more about the moment. We had a horrible breakdown in the first overtime after battling back and fighting our way to what appeared to be a win. With a very tough segment of our schedule coming, I felt we had wasted away an opportunity to "steal one" from Greg McDermott and those blue turdbirds.
At the time, I said that one was on Coach Shaka. The next eight wins against only one loss are on Coach Shaka as well! The way Coach Shaka coached our guys out of what must have been an awful funk and motivated them to do what's happened this year is nothing short of amazing. It speaks to his character and to that of the 12 members of our basketball team, most of whom he recruited.
We're what I thought we'd be at the beginning of the season -- an NCAA team. Losing to the Turdbirds may have been a character builder that propels us further than even most optimistic of us (yeah, me and Goose) expected.
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I'm usually of the opinion that a loss never "helps." But for some reason, I do wonder if the Creighton loss served as some kind of propellant for what has happened since.
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I'm usually of the opinion that a loss never "helps." But for some reason, I do wonder if the Creighton loss served as some kind of propellant for what has happened since.
I've had the same thought. It's weird, but sometimes a loss can generate wins in its wake. This may well have been one of those times. To be clear, I'm not the least bit happy that we lost, but if it was indeed the spark that ignited our run....that's the silver lining.
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I've had the same thought. It's weird, but sometimes a loss can generate wins in its wake. This may well have been one of those times. To be clear, I'm not the least bit happy that we lost, but if it was indeed the spark that ignited our run....that's the silver lining.
Obviously no way to prove it, so it's just a feeling. And I acknowledge that there could be no validity to it whatsoever.
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Obviously no way to prove it, so it's just a feeling. And I acknowledge that there could be no validity to it whatsoever.
I've told myself for a month to stop thinking about that game, but I can't stop thinking about 'what if'. But at the same time, did everyone's focus and resolve get just a little bit crisper (coaches included) since then, and is that why we're seeing the results?
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Really amazing that the VAST majority now expect at least one NCAA win. What an incredible turnaround for the program.
Incidentally, what do people prefer between S16 and BET Title? I feel like the former is better even though there is no banner. Conference tourney titles get lost in the shuffle of Championship week and probably don't register too much with the casual fan. I feel like S16s get noticed - I'm pretty sure the time I ever heard anything about Marquette (beyond knowing it was where my aunt had gone to law school) was the 1994 S16.
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Really amazing that the VAST majority now expect at least one NCAA win. What an incredible turnaround for the program.
Incidentally, what do people prefer between S16 and BET Title? I feel like the former is better even though there is no banner. Conference tourney titles get lost in the shuffle of Championship week and probably don't register too much with the casual fan. I feel like S16s get noticed - I'm pretty sure the time I ever heard anything about Marquette (beyond knowing it was where my aunt had gone to Law School) was the 1994 S16.
Sweet 16 every single time.
It would be cool to finally win the BET, heck even make the title game. But its ultimately meaningless.
Sweet 16 is surviving a full weekend of the NCAA tourney. A great feat. An extra week of pub and a shot to compete for a final four.
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Really amazing that the VAST majority now expect at least one NCAA win. What an incredible turnaround for the program.
Incidentally, what do people prefer between S16 and BET Title? I feel like the former is better even though there is no banner. Conference tourney titles get lost in the shuffle of Championship week and probably don't register too much with the casual fan. I feel like S16s get noticed - I'm pretty sure the time I ever heard anything about Marquette (beyond knowing it was where my aunt had gone to law school) was the 1994 S16.
Agree with your first sentence. Hope you're part of the majority and not part of the cult!
Unquestionably Sweet 16. Also, it's a much bigger accomplishment to win a regular-season title IMHO ... although this season will be a little screwy due to Covid.
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Really amazing that the VAST majority now expect at least one NCAA win. What an incredible turnaround for the program.
Incidentally, what do people prefer between S16 and BET Title? I feel like the former is better even though there is no banner. Conference tourney titles get lost in the shuffle of Championship week and probably don't register too much with the casual fan. I feel like S16s get noticed - I'm pretty sure the time I ever heard anything about Marquette (beyond knowing it was where my aunt had gone to law school) was the 1994 S16.
I would rather have the Sweet Sixteen, but hopefully we can have both. Shaka has built the foundation for a Final Four or even National Championship team over the next few years. The Sweet Sixteen would result in a greater harvest of recruits and transfers to accomplish the goal(s) than a BE title.
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Obviously no way to prove it, so it's just a feeling. And I acknowledge that there could be no validity to it whatsoever.
Maybe, Mike, but Shaka and this team seem pretty self motivated. I think that if we bear Creighton the only difference would be a 9-3 conference record instead of 8-4.
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A fantastic season to date.
An added perk is we do not have to "respect the process" for 5 - 6 years to assess the coach's skill set.
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This season has been incredible.
I came into the season with only one wish as a fan when it comes to overall season success- a wish that I’ll admit I considered a long shot. I wanted one NCAA tourney win.
I was, and still am, sick and tired of all the years of NCAA tourney futility. We had gotten spoiled with the success in the Buzz years and it was a hard fall from grace.
I actually remember telling a fellow MU fan after the E8 run that we were beginning to get very spoiled and it seemed like we were due to a “correction” of sorts, and boy were we ever.
Admittedly, I had hope that our new coach would pull a miracle and get MU in position to make the dance and maybe “steal” a win this season. I loved the hire and had that hope.
I refuse to change my pre-season wish.
I still just want one tourney win.
I’ve seen enough (although not quite as much as many here) to know how quickly things can change.
We are riding the highest of highs, but it doesn’t take much for things to unravel. After all, one bad loss at the wrong time can make you feel like it’s all gone wrong.
I promise I’m not trying to be a Debbie downer, but lets not forget that Coach Shaka has had some brutal recent NCAA tourney “luck” and still has to get the monkey off his own back.
Lucky for him he came to the right place to do just that, so he can once again start his own and Marquettes new era of better luck and winnings ways.
One tournament win.
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Maybe, Mike, but Shaka and this team seem pretty self motivated. I think that if we bear Creighton the only difference would be a 9-3 conference record instead of 8-4.
Agreed Lenny I think the corner was already turned that game and we just didn’t finish it off. Many times grind it out ugly wins especially at home propel a team to a win streak just like we are seeing. That should have been a grind it out win but wasn’t. Regardless the tenacity was there that game and hinted at future success. We may just not have recognized it at the time due to the nature of the loss and the concern for the schedule ahead.
Definitely an inflection point in the season regardless.
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I don’t get this whole “calibrate your expectations” thing. Given the nature of our program, the expectation every year should be NCAA tourney berth and win a game or 2. Anything more than that range is exceeding expectations, anything less than that range is falling short of expectations.
We can talk about recalibrating our expectations for the program over the long-term (for example we somehow become a blue blood a la Nova, maybe we start expecting Elite Eights or Final Fours), but recalibrating mid season simply because you didn’t necessarily see this coming is silly. This constant recalibrations (downward) of expectations is what resulted in people somehow rationalizing 7 years of general suck just 10 short months ago.
Expectations do not equal predictions.
Expectations = what do you EXPECT the program to do. This is the bar. Hit this bar or above - you’re good. Consistently fall short of this bar you’re in trouble.
Predictions = what do I think the team is capable of in any given season based upon what I know about the players, coaches, etc. Go ahead an recalibrate your predictions as much as you’d like.
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Maybe, Mike, but Shaka and this team seem pretty self motivated. I think that if we bear Creighton the only difference would be a 9-3 conference record instead of 8-4.
You're probably right, Tony.
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I don’t get this whole “calibrate your expectations” thing. Given the nature of our program, the expectation every year should be NCAA tourney berth and win a game or 2. Anything more than that range is exceeding expectations, anything less than that range is falling short of expectations.
We can talk about recalibrating our expectations for the program over the long-term (for example we somehow become a blue blood a la Nova, maybe we start expecting Elite Eights or Final Fours), but recalibrating mid season simply because you didn’t necessarily see this coming is silly. This constant recalibrations (downward) of expectations is what resulted in people somehow rationalizing 7 years of general suck just 10 short months ago.
Expectations do not equal predictions.
Expectations = what do you EXPECT the program to do. This is the bar. Hit this bar or above - you’re good. Consistently fall short of this bar you’re in trouble.
Predictions = what do I think the team is capable of in any given season based upon what I know about the players, coaches, etc. Go ahead an recalibrate your predictions as much as you’d like.
Since the tournament expanded to 64 teams, Marquette has won tournament games in 1994, 1996, 2003, 2008, 2009, 2011-13. A Shaka Smart coached team hasn’t won a tournament game since 2013.
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Since the tournament expanded to 64 teams, Marquette has won tournament games in 1994, 1996, 2003, 2008, 2009, 2011-13. A Shaka Smart coached team hasn’t won a tournament game since 2013.
Kevin: 2
Mike: 1
Tom: 5
Buzz: 8
Y’all wonder why we say Buzz is the 🐐
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Kevin: 2
Mike: 1
Tom: 5
Buzz: 8
Y’all wonder why we say Buzz is the 🐐
He’s a 🐀🐐 hybrid
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He’s a 🐀🐐 hybrid
Hahah y’all too much
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I was expecting 16 wins this year. One more win and my expectations were wrong. Barring a Wojo like collapse my expectations were wrong.
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Since the tournament expanded to 64 teams, Marquette has won tournament games in 1994, 1996, 2003, 2008, 2009, 2011-13. A Shaka Smart coached team hasn’t won a tournament game since 2013.
And? I expect the program to make the NCAA tournament every year and win a game or two. If you’d like to lower expectations to calibrate toward the lower end of our historical scale, be my guest.
Looks to me like 2008-2013 we generally met or exceeded expectations with the rare exception.
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And? I expect the program to make the NCAA tournament every year and win a game or two. If you’d like to lower expectations to calibrate toward the lower end of our historical scale, be my guest.
Looks to me like 2008-2013 we generally met or exceeded expectations with the rare exception.
You’re expectations aren’t reality. Don’t feel bad. Most college basketball fans live in a world of unrealistic expectations
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You’re expectations aren’t reality. Don’t feel bad. Most college basketball fans live in a world of unrealistic expectations
2008-2013 we met my expectations 5 of 6 years. That is reality. Then we immediately entered W*j* hell.
What are you talking about?
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2008-2013 we met my expectations 5 of 6 years. That is reality. Then we immediately entered W*j* hell.
What are you talking about?
Reality
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Reality
Saying it again doesn’t make you right. I literally just proved you wrong using statistics from your own post.
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Saying it again doesn’t make you right. I literally just proved you wrong using statistics from your own post.
It’s almost as though MU didn’t have a basketball team prior to 2008.
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Saying it again doesn’t make you right. I literally just proved you wrong using statistics from your own post.
Since 1985, Marquette has won tournament games in 8 seasons total. Your expectations aren’t reality.
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My expectations during crean/buzz were, at a minimum, to make the tournament each year and make a run every few years. That’s modern day Marquette basketball.
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My expectations during crean/buzz were, at a minimum, to make the tournament each year and make a run every few years. That’s modern day Marquette basketball.
That’s more realistic
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It’s almost as though MU didn’t have a basketball team prior to 2008.
Ancient history. I don’t care about stats from the W Bush administration.
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Ancient history. I don’t care about stats from the W Bush administration.
Those that choose to ignore history often repeat it
What should the expectations be for Butler then? They’ve been to two national title games since then and weren’t to any before?
What should Georgetown’s expectations be? They haven’t been to a Sweet 16 since the W administration?
Which program should have what expectations?
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Ancient history. I don’t care about stats from the W Bush administration.
LOL, so only you get to determine when history starts to matter?
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LOL, so only you get to determine when history starts to matter?
Marquette should probably be a tournament team year-in, year-out. Expecting a win or two a year in the tournament? Very few programs accomplish that
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LOL, so only you get to determine when history starts to matter?
Give Bitcher a break. His entire college experience was ruined.
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Give Bitcher a break. His entire college experience was ruined.
I like when you go after me due to your own insecurities about how wrong you were about nearly everything from the beginning to the end of the Wojo era.
Hauser thread is in Superbar - run along eh?
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Give Bitcher a break. His entire college experience was ruined.
If your college experience is ruined by the results of basketball games, you have larger issues anyway
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I like when you go after me due to your own insecurities about how wrong you were about nearly everything from the beginning to the end of the Wojo era.
Hauser thread is in Superbar - run along eh?
Every thread is a Nojo Glory Hole thread to you, nu?
I hope you found a puppy to hug so you're not scarred for life from the worst college experience ever, twinkles.
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If your college experience is ruined by the results of basketball games, you have larger issues anyway
I like that you take 82’s uninformed blithering as immediate fact. It says a lot about you.
He singlehandedly ruined the basketball product for the duration of my college attendance. I doubt most of you can say the same.
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Ruined is hyperbolic but I would be pretty disappointed as a life long Marquette fan if my four years in college were down seasons with Wojo.
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Every thread is a Nojo Glory Hole thread to you, nu?
I hope you found a puppy to hug so you're not scarred for life from the worst college experience ever, twinkles.
Ignorant as usual, “twinkles”. You should get the quote right, “twinkles”. Go find the Hauser thread, “twinkles”.
He singlehandedly ruined the basketball product for the duration of my college attendance. I doubt most of you can say the same.
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A weekend with no MU game, who would have guessed that every thread would divulge into exactly the same conversation? I'm gonna guess that the Monday morning bump of the "What are we ranked" thread will be the next time anything remotely relevant to this season is posted.
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Ignorant as usual, “twinkles”. You should get the quote right, “twinkles”. Go find the Hauser thread, “twinkles”.
Go get a hug, twinkles.
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Go get a hug, twinkles.
Your posts are always value-add
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Ruined is hyperbolic but I would be pretty disappointed as a life long Marquette fan if my four years in college were down seasons with Wojo.
Mine were Dukiet and early O’Neill. A couple fun things my senior year but a lot of bad. Way worse than Wojo.
But it in no way ruined my college experience.
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Your posts are always value-add
Oh ... adding value is what you care about most with your Scoop experience. OK then ... Wojo sucks!
There. Value added!
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But it in no way ruined my college experience.
Who said it did? Astounding lack of reading comprehension from presumed Marquette grads.
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Oh ... adding value is what you care about most with your Scoop experience. OK then ... Wojo sucks!
There. Value added!
Right on cue
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We Are Marquette!
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Who said it did? Astounding lack of reading comprehension from presumed Marquette grads.
No one. My statement wasn’t attributed to anyone.
Talk about lack of comprehension.
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Mine were Dukiet and early O’Neill. A couple fun things my senior year but a lot of bad. Way worse than Wojo.
But it in no way ruined my college experience.
Everyone has unique life experiences. Best not to judge others.
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Everyone has unique life experiences. Best not to judge others.
Unless you wait 5 years
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Unless you wait 5 years
Well 7… nobody can say for sure what would’ve happened in 2020 so Final Four should be the baseline assumption.
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When does the committee release the top 16? I think once we see that we can recalibrate our expectations.
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When does the committee release the top 16? I think once we see that we can recalibrate our expectations.
2 weeks from today I believe.
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So if it’s 2 weeks from today (I’m not sure when it is) does a 2-1 record in the next 3 games @UConn, @Butler, v GTown put Marquette in that top 16?
Calling Brew
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So if it’s 2 weeks from today (I’m not sure when it is) does a 2-1 record in the next 3 games @UConn, @Butler, v GTown put Marquette in that top 16?
Calling Brew
I'm not brew but I think it will be close.
I personally said before Providence that I thought 4-1 would do it when someone(not Brew) figured 3-2 would be enough.
Its tough to know because most likely 2-1 scenario is a loss at Uconn and winning the other 2. The Uconn loss isnt gonna hurt ya much. But the other two also dont help.
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Whoa. This thread turned into a circle jerk of people hating people who didn’t think MU would be ranked #1 in the country.
Can’t we all just say “wow I was right” or “wow I was wrong” dumb thread. Dumb people.
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Whoa. This thread turned into a circle jerk of people hating people who didn’t think MU would be ranked #1 in the country.
Can’t we all just say “wow I was right” or “wow I was wrong” dumb thread. Dumb people.
Not my clowns, not my circus
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https://youtu.be/aCtwyV-1DZw
There are 2 brief Marquette mentions.
Fast forward to 1:12:20 and 1:31:20.
I think everyone on here will enjoy!
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https://youtu.be/aCtwyV-1DZw
There are 2 brief Marquette mentions.
Fast forward to 1:12:20 and 1:31:20.
I think everyone on here will enjoy!
Gotta say, if we win it all this year I think we might as hang the banner, close up the Al, and turn off the lights because there won't even be a better season. Become a soccer school or something.
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Incidentally, Paddypower currently giving MU better odds on the FF (18/1) than winning the Big East Title (20/1).
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So if it’s 2 weeks from today (I’m not sure when it is) does a 2-1 record in the next 3 games @UConn, @Butler, v GTown put Marquette in that top 16?
Calling Brew
Depends, but it's a decent shot. Close loss to UConn and handle Butler and Georgetown? Probably top-16. The thing with the reveal is it typically mirrors the top-16 of the NCAA metric, with 2-4 differences. It was two each of the first two years of the NET with 4 outliers last year, I suspect largely because the minimized non-con schedules had teams like Colgate and Loyola in the top-16.
Currently we're 15, I'd like to see that closer to 20 to have real confidence. I feel good about us being ahead of 15-LSU and 16-Texas, maybe 13-Tennessee too, but that's a longer discussion. But if those last two aren't in, it creates a fight between 18-Ohio State, 19-Michigan State, 21-Wisconsin, 23-Alabama, 25-Marquette, and 29-Providence. I don't think at this moment anyone else is in the mix, but a lot can change in 2 weeks.
Gun to my head today, I think we're a 5. Win our next three, likely a 4, but 2-1 would be very questionable and depend a lot on the margins.
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Mine were Dukiet and early O’Neill. A couple fun things my senior year but a lot of bad. Way worse than Wojo.
But it in no way ruined my college experience.
Yes but you went during the block party / homecoming era. IMO, MU’s greatest era. Truly the only time where Hoops didn’t matter
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Yes but you went during the block party / homecoming era. IMO, MU’s greatest era. Truly the obit time where Hoops didn’t matter
No the block party ended before I got there. Jigglesfest tho'...
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No the block party ended before I got there. Jigglesfest tho'...
Fall 85 was last block party, my Frosh year.....1 year of Rick, 3 years of Dukiet...not very good, but some memorable games.....the Dayton/UNC weekend in 86, Oregon State torching us with Gary Payton, Bradly Center opening....we weren't very good, but games were still fun
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Richie, you and I were there at the same time. From a basketball perspective, the downward spiral of the last two years Majerus into the first two years of Dukiet. Uggh. At least we had Block Party, Jigglesfest, and the bars on Wells St.
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Richie, you and I were there at the same time. From a basketball perspective, the downward spiral of the last two years Majerus into the first two years of Dukiet. Uggh. At least we had Block Party, Jigglesfest, and the bars on Wells St.
Don’t forget about Lake front bash. And didn’t you guys have a legal drinking age of 18? That had to help during the dark times. I think that it changed to 21 when I got there in 1988 (also very dark but with an O’Neill light at the end of the tunnel).
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Don’t forget about Lake front bash. And didn’t you guys have a legal drinking age of 18? That had to help during the dark times. I think that it changed to 21 when I got there in 1988 (also very dark but with an O’Neill light at the end of the tunnel).
Yes, our class was grandfathered in on the drinking age...it went up 9/1/86...my roommate's birthday was 9/2, he wasn't pleased
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I slid under the drinking age change twice. The first was from 18 to 19 on July 1, 1985.
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I slid under the drinking age change twice. The first was from 18 to 19 on July 1, 1985.
That's right, I had forgotten all about that... now that you mention it, I recall turning the 7 for 1967 to a 5 for 1965 until I hit my birthday. Back in those stone ages, a piece of tape to change the number worked fine
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What I would like to achieve (my expectations).
1. Lose less than 10 games a year.
2. Never lose in first round of Big East tournament
3. NIT bad year.
4. NCAA bid at least 4 out of 5 years.
5. 3 out 4 years win at least one game in NCAA tournament.
6. 2 out of 4 years win at least two games in NCCA tournament.
I think No. 1 is the hardest to achieve.
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What I would like to achieve (my expectations).
1. Lose less than 10 games a year.
2. Never lose in first round of Big East tournament
3. NIT bad year.
4. NCAA bid at least 4 out of 5 years.
5. 3 out 4 years win at least one game in NCAA tournament.
6. 2 out of 4 years win at least two games in NCCA tournament.
I think No. 1 is the hardest to achieve.
That’s a good list. Can we sprinkle in a final four every ten years?
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That’s a good list. Can we sprinkle in a final four every ten years?
I of course would like that, but that is extremely hard to achieve. It would be more doable, if the blue bloods (Kentucky, Duke, North Carolina and Kansas) stopped dominating the recruiting rankings.
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I started in fall 86. Those were dark times for MU basketball. At least we had Tony Smith to watch and I still went to almost every game.
My birthday was in November 1967 so I just missed the grandfather from 18 to 19 and 19 to 21. Easy fix though. I cut out the first “1” with a razor from my MU ID and melted a white crayon to fill the hole. Suddenly I was 1/9/67. Only had one bouncer question it out of a whole lot of ID checks.
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I started in fall 86. Those were dark times for MU basketball. At least we had Tony Smith to watch and I still went to almost every game.
My birthday was in November 1967 so I just missed the grandfather from 18 to 19 and 19 to 21. Easy fix though. I cut out the first “1” with a razor from my MU ID and melted a white crayon to fill the hole. Suddenly I was 1/9/67. Only had one bouncer question it out of a whole lot of ID checks.
We started the exact same year with the exact same November birth month. It was very easy at the time to get cheap, fake IDs that 2/3 of the bars allowed.
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My birthday was in November 1967 so I just missed the grandfather from 18 to 19 and 19 to 21. Easy fix though. I cut out the first “1” with a razor from my MU ID and melted a white crayon to fill the hole. Suddenly I was 1/9/67. Only had one bouncer question it out of a whole lot of ID checks.
I am outraged by your lawlessness!
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I started in fall 86. Those were dark times for MU basketball. At least we had Tony Smith to watch and I still went to almost every game.
My birthday was in November 1967 so I just missed the grandfather from 18 to 19 and 19 to 21. Easy fix though. I cut out the first “1” with a razor from my MU ID and melted a white crayon to fill the hole. Suddenly I was 1/9/67. Only had one bouncer question it out of a whole lot of ID checks.
I had a "creatively produced" ID that listed my home town as Sparta, Wisconsin. In one store a guy looked at it and said "Sparta! I know some people there. Do you know,,,," Of course I said yes.
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I’m a 97 grad. The ‘Lanche was shutdown on my watch (technically my roommate’s).
We had Hegs, new Murph’s, new Gym Bar, Theo’s, The Glocc, Conways and Harp & Shamrock. Plus Angelos.
It wasn’t bad but I know we got a fraction of the greatness MU offered establishment wise in the late 70s / 80s.
I just missed O’D’s and Thoma’s.
Wish my parents had me earlier but 3 out of 4 NCAAs, two conference champs and a NIT runner up soften the blow of the scarcity of bars.