Tyler the Creator

[DoctorV]

So Tyler is the best PG in America, full stop.

Tyler, however, has been a less effective and efficient passer this season.

We came into the season talking about the all-time assist leader. We came in talking about the possibility of 10 APG.

Assists are down about 2 per game, which is quite the drop. He hasn’t had a single game of 10 assists this season.

So, how come? And follow up, does it even matter? Extra follow up, is it by design?

I’ll admit I don’t know, and that’s why this thread.
I will say he’s better in all other facets, much better.

If I had to guess, and I want others thoughts, I’ll say that
1- I think it does matter, and I think it’ll change as the season gets deeper.

2- I think it’s partly by design- I see a lot of non TyKo sets on the ball. He’s playing much more off the ball, and Kam/Oso seem to be starting a lot of sets. My guess is that this is a Shaka wrinkle, and that he’s conserving Tyler for the deeper portion of the season, as well as getting him in killer scorer mode- like we saw tonight- for games where teams sag and take away his most elite skill.

3- How come- well this is three parts.
A) shooters not gone shoot just yet, a lot of misses on his passes. B) off the ball a lot more by design, see above. C) his killer scorer mentality is developing before our eyes, so less ‘do everything to pass and find the open guy’ as we’ve seen in the past.

Thoughts?

[MuggsyB]

So Tyler is the best PG in America, full stop.

Tyler, however, has been a less effective and efficient passer this season.

We came into the season talking about the all-time assist leader. We came in talking about the possibility of 10 APG.

Assists are down about 2 per game, which is quite the drop. He hasn’t had a single game of 10 assists this season.

So, how come? And follow up, does it even matter? Extra follow up, is it by design?

I’ll admit I don’t know, and that’s why this thread.
I will say he’s better in all other facets, much better.

If I had to guess, and I want others thoughts, I’ll say that
1- I think it does matter, and I think it’ll change as the season gets deeper.

2- I think it’s partly by design- I see a lot of non TyKo sets on the ball. He’s playing much more off the ball, and Kam/Oso seem to be starting a lot of sets. My guess is that this is a Shaka wrinkle, and that he’s conserving Tyler for the deeper portion of the season, as well as getting him in killer scorer mode- like we saw tonight- for games where teams sag and take away his most elite skill.

3- How come- well this is three parts.
A) shooters not gone shoot just yet, a lot of misses on his passes. B) off the ball a lot more by design, see above. C) his killer scorer mentality is developing before our eyes, so less ‘do everything to pass and find the open guy’ as we’ve seen in the past.

Thoughts?

He should have probably had 11 tonight.  Guys are dropping passes and missing shots.  I also think teams are making a concerted effort to stop the Tyko/Oso two man game.   And yes, he's playing off the ball more. 

[Goose]

Doctor

I think he is playing more off the ball by choice. He was not a PG for most of his playing career and I think he wants to play more non PG. IMO, he could play center and I would still love him.

[DoctorV]

He should have probably had 11 tonight.  Guys are dropping passes abd missing shots.  I also think teams are making a concerted effort to stop the Tyko/Oso two man game.

Fair, and many have talked about how Oso is missing passes from Tyler that he shouldn’t miss.

It’s a 2 man game though, and Oso is pretty damn smart.

I think Tyler is a bit rushed, slinging em a bit too much or too fast and not delaying the delivery enough.

There was a play today on a 3 or even 4 on 1 where Tyler had the ball and gave it to Kam way too damn soon and Kam got swatted baaaad right at the rim.
Last season, TyKo gives that pass right in a position to score.

[DoctorV]

Doctor

I think he is playing more off the ball by choice. He was not a PG for most of his playing career and I think he wants to play more non PG. IMO, he could play center and I would still love him.

Yea Goose, same. He has the guts and grit to fill it up anywhere on the court.

That said, he’s not the coach, Shaka is, and Shaka has a National Title to win.

Maybe it’s a case of Kam wants to run more point and TyKo wants to play more 2 and Shaka sees that at this point in the season it just makes sense to keep them both happy and diversified?
Or maybe I’m over thinking it and everyone is dropping his passes?

I just don’t see the same passing PG, even though I see a better overall player.

BTW this is probably improving BOTH TyKo and Kams draft stock, so maybe there is some of that

[MuggsyB]

Kam's passing had improved significantly.  Maybe he and Shaka should have a discussion with Jop about moving the rock off the bounce?

[PGsHeroes32]

Less assists is obvious. He hasnt forgetten how to pass nor is he doing it worse. The reasons why are clear

1. Guys literally are not catching passes.

2. Hes upped his ability as a scoring tenfold since Feb of last year and it allows him to hunt buckets which is just as good

3. More off ball, part to let him rest. Part to let him focus on buckets. But also because players like SJ are quite literally a -1000000000000 on the court if they dont have the ball in their hands to set up the O

TK had elite passes tonight. I said it in the game thread, I almost wonder if because hes gotten so good at scoring our players have randomly forgot how good he is at passing. Oso especially is not ready frequently.

[Goose]

Doctor

I hate to say it, but getting guys to the next level means a lot to Shaka and the program. I think Shaka knows what Kolek has meant to his career as a coach and is giving him a ton of rope.

I do not think this is overstating things, but we may never see another Tyler Kolek for a very long time. I am 60y and doubt if I will ever see anything close to him again. The kid is beyond special as a college player and everything I love in player.

Just want to say again, I love Ben Gold as a player!! He is the next guy to make a long lasting mark at MU.

[MU82]

Kolek is wonderful, a generational talent for our alma mater. I wouldn’t change a thing he (and Shaka) are doing.

[DoctorV]

Doctor

I hate to say it, but getting guys to the next level means a lot to Shaka and the program. I think Shaka knows what Kolek has meant to his career as a coach and is giving him a ton of rope.

I do not think this is overstating things, but we may never see another Tyler Kolek for a very long time. I am 60y and doubt if I will ever see anything close to him again. The kid is beyond special as a college player and everything I love in player.

Just want to say again, I love Ben Gold as a player!! He is the next guy to make a long lasting mark at MU.

Goose, I love Tyler but I’m not there yet. I’m really glad you’re there, but I want to see March and April.

I also love how much you love Ben, and makes me more excited about him in the future.
Someone get the kid to guard someone in soace though, give me that lateral quickness!
I think he will be a great shooter/scorer and rebounder in his career, showing his early chops as a big 6th man this March

[Goose]

Doctor

I am 100% about winning and winning big. I want Kolek to deliver in March to put his place in MU basketball history as much as his Dad does. That said, he changed MU basketball in a similar way that George Thompson changed MU basketball.

He is the most important recruit in a half century and every fan should look at where things were when he arrived and where they are now. Enjoy the ride.

As for Gold, I would bet my money in him. tower was high on Kolek early and I think I was there early as well, and I am higher on Gold. Different high and expectations, but he will be a major part of MU future success.

[MuggsyB]

Doctor

I am 100% about winning and winning big. I want Kolek to deliver in March to put his place in MU basketball history as much as his Dad does. That said, he changed MU basketball in a similar way that George Thompson changed MU basketball.

He is the most important recruit in a half century and every fan should look at where things were when he arrived and where they are now. Enjoy the ride.

As for Gold, I would bet my money in him. tower was high on Kolek early and I think I was there early as well, and I am higher on Gold. Different high and expectations, but he will be a major part of MU future success.

Goose,

A lefty Steve Nash?

[Jockey]

Goose,

A lefty Steve Nash?

No. Nash is a HoFer, an MVP in the NBA.

[MuggsyB]

No. Nash is a HoFer, an MVP in the NBA.

No one thought he would be coming out of Santa Clara. 

[Goose]

Muggsy

I have noticed a bit more posting from a couple of the mods of scoop and I suggest you get their take on Kolek being a left handed Nash. I am just a simple guy that goes by eye test as my first judgement. There is no doubt in my mind that they can offer more insight into your question.


On a sidebar, pretty good win, huh? I enjoyed the game and I want to thank a fellow scooper for the tickets.

[MuggsyB]

Muggsy

I have noticed a bit more posting from a couple of the mods of scoop and I suggest you get their take on Kolek being a left handed Nash. I am just a simple guy that goes by eye test as my first judgement. There is no doubt in my mind that they can offer more insight into your question.


On a sidebar, pretty good win, huh? I enjoyed the game and I want to thank a fellow scooper for the tickets.

Definitely a good win.  Eviscerate ND, then dispose of St. Tommy.  9-2 would be acceptable heading into BEast play. 

[Goose]

Muggsy
 

You ever get back for a game? We need you in MKE for a game.

[El Guerrero 2]

Tyler’s assists are down because Shaka is intentionally playing him off ball a lot and our team has sucked at shooting. Just watch how often. Tyler gives the ball off to another guard or Oso to bring the ball up court.

[DoctorV]

Muggsy

I have noticed a bit more posting from a couple of the mods of scoop and I suggest you get their take on Kolek being a left handed Nash. I am just a simple guy that goes by eye test as my first judgement. There is no doubt in my mind that they can offer more insight into your question.


On a sidebar, pretty good win, huh? I enjoyed the game and I want to thank a fellow scooper for the tickets.

My take is that from the moment we laid eyes on him at Marquette you could tell that Tyler was one of the best passers we’ve ever seen.

Then you could quickly tell that he was one of the best readers of the game we’ve ever seen.

I’m a harsh critic though, I demanded more. I wanted to see him be able to shoot, and not only shoot but also be able to score in a variety of ways in order to make himself and Marquette elite.

I never expected that turnaround the way we’ve seen it, but it’s here.

You also can’t understate the intangibles- his rebounding, his grit, his toughness.
His ability to cry when he fails.

He’s got it all. And he may lack athleticism but he makes up for it with his old man’s game, his elite moxie.

If those NBA teams pass on him next summer they are missing a chromosome, but I’m fairly certain they won’t pass on him if he stays in.

Here’s to hoping that our All American cuts em down and heads for the Association, or comes back and wins it all next year.

Imagining Kam and Tyler back as super seniors next season has all preseason #1 pick predictions on lock. I won’t wish it, because that would likely mean we failed this year, and Marquette won’t.

[MuggsyB]

Muggsy
 

You ever get back for a game? We need you in MKE for a game.

It's been awhile since I moved to the West Coast.  i tend to get more nervous attending the games as well. 

[Goose]

Muggsy

I am part of a secret group on scoop and we would LOVE to have you in for a game and a “summit”.

[Daniel]

Kolek is just a joy to watch…. And now he does it all.  There isn’t another guard on the team who can even to begin to fill Kolek’s shoes at this time.   He is simply amazing

[MuggsyB]

My take is that from the moment we laid eyes on him at Marquette you could tell that Tyler was one of the best passers we’ve ever seen.

Then you could quickly tell that he was one of the best readers of the game we’ve ever seen.

I’m a harsh critic though, I demanded more. I wanted to see him be able to shoot, and not only shoot but also be able to score in a variety of ways in order to make himself and Marquette elite.

I never expected that turnaround the way we’ve seen it, but it’s here.

You also can’t understate the intangibles- his rebounding, his grit, his toughness.
His ability to cry when he fails.

He’s got it all. And he may lack athleticism but he makes up for it with his old man’s game, his elite moxie.

If those NBA teams pass on him next summer they are missing a chromosome, but I’m fairly certain they won’t pass on him if he stays in.

Here’s to hoping that our All American cuts em down and heads for the Association, or comes back and wins it all next year.

Imagining Kam and Tyler back as super seniors next season has all preseason #1 pick predictions on lock. I won’t wish it, because that would likely mean we failed this year, and Marquette won’t.

My only real  question mark is can he defend on the next level.  I think the Brunson comparison is pretty interesting although Jalen. Is a better scorer off the dribble and Tyko is a bette passer.  Brunson also has elite footwork and can get to any spot he wants.  The pure PG position doesn't really exist any more in tbe NBA.  TyKo has shown he can score the ball as well as dime drop. 

[MuggsyB]

Muggsy

I am part of a secret group on scoop and we would LOVE to have you in for a game and a “summit”.

I appreciate that.  I will certainly let you know if I'm ever in town for a game. 

[DoctorV]

Muggsy

I am part of a secret group on scoop and we would LOVE to have you in for a game and a “summit”.

Plus 1000

Hashtag get Muggsy to a game.

Heck, I’d pay his ticket if he DM’ed me and said he wanted to come one to one, including this saturday