Is Wojo really a good recruiter?

[bilsu]

I think Wojo's biggest problem had been team building.

I am not going to go through the other team's statistics, but I believe MU has the least points in the Big East from bench players. This might still be true, even if Lewis is healthy.

Our second team might be the worst in the league.

[WarriorFan]

Recruiting:  B-
In Game Coaching:  C-
Player Development:  C-
Fitness/Conditioning:  B-
Strategy / Consistency / Scheme:  D
Team forming / Team Building / Teamwork:  C

The above is not the picture of what comprises a successful Big East coach. 

The thing that gets me about recruiting is there's no system to recruit to.  Nova, for example is always going to have big guards with multiple skills.  G-Town "back in the day" always had the stud centers and super quick point guards.  Cuse always had the 6-6 to 6-8 wings who could drive and shoot.  Buzz teams always had the toughness and the switchable.  These great programs (in their era) always had a freshman or sophomore who was basically a younger carbon copy of an upperclassman in the same position. 

[Stretchdeltsig]

As a coach in the Big East, he has not been able to recruit enough dominant players to compete at a high level. Agree with others on this board that he isn't able to coach them up and is a very poor game coach. If we were in a lesser conference like the Horizon league Wojo would do fine.

[MUDPT]

Goodman and Hummel’s podcast talked about how Duke only recruited 5 guys a year and never had to cast the net to find under the radar guys. It made me think of all of the people MU lost in the end with no backup plan: Grimes, Suggs, Davis.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Goodman and Hummel’s podcast talked about how Duke only recruited 5 guys a year and never had to cast the net to find under the radar guys. It made me think of all of the people MU lost in the end with no backup plan: Grimes, Suggs, Davis.

This is a good point.

[Lennys Tap]

Recruiting:  B-
In Game Coaching:  C-
Player Development:  C-
Fitness/Conditioning:  B-
Strategy / Consistency / Scheme:  D
Team forming / Team Building / Teamwork:  C

The above is not the picture of what comprises a successful Big East coach. 

So his overall GPA is 1.83. Will that hurt our APR?

[Galway Eagle]

Just gonna do this for top 100s because I think we can agree that while MU needs occasional under the radar guys we can't have a full cast of them

247/ESPN

2021
82/92 Mitchell
60/70 Aidoo

2020
37/49 Garcia
104/71 Lewis

2019
75/98 Torrence (247:51 before reclassifying)

2018
52/48 J Hauser (247:18 prior to injury)

2017

2016
92 Bailey
83/87 S Hauser
68/85 Howard (25/32 prior to reclassifying)

2015
75/85 Haanif
9/5 Henry

2014
76/83 Sandy

PSW (Pre Steve Woj...):

2013
32/27 JJJ
50/39 Burton
59/53 D Wilson

2012
96/84 Steve

2011
70 Juan

2010
28/31 Vander
99/53 Jamail

2009
70/76 Junior
72/79 Maymon
90/95 Williams


It's difficult for me to agree that the recruiting hasn't been good to better based on High School reports and such. I'd say that Wojo hasn't recruited a cohesive unit that fits together and that's the biggest issue. 

[Warrior of Law]

I would describe Wojo's recruiting as taking the "best available" similar to a NFL GM.  The result has been that some years we have great shooting and terrible defense, or all wing players who can't score.  That approach doesn't work for MU, or for most other college basketball teams.  You also don't have much space to make mistakes, and there are plenty of mistakes on this roster.

[Dr. Blackheart]

Just gonna do this for top 100s because I think we can agree that while MU needs occasional under the radar guys we can't have a full cast of them

247/ESPN

2021
82/92 Mitchell
60/70 Aidoo

2020
37/49 Garcia
104/71 Lewis

2019
75/98 Torrence (247:51 before reclassifying)

2018
52/48 J Hauser (247:18 prior to injury)

2017

2016
92 Bailey
83/87 S Hauser
68/85 Howard (25/32 prior to reclassifying)

2015
75/85 Haanif
9/5 Henry

2014
76/83 Sandy

PSW (Pre Steve Woj...):

2013
32/27 JJJ
50/39 Burton
59/53 D Wilson

2012
96/84 Steve

2011
70 Juan

2010
28/31 Vander
99/53 Jamail

2009
70/76 Junior
72/79 Maymon
90/95 Williams


It's difficult for me to agree that the recruiting hasn't been good to better based on High School reports and such. I'd say that Wojo hasn't recruited a cohesive unit that fits together and that's the biggest issue.

What you missed with Buzz was Prep (Mayo, DeWilson), JUCOs and transfers (Jamil, Jake, Lockett). You also missed Magic Dawson. Buzz had a strong ability to balance his classes including Buzz Cutting. Again for better or worse.

Wojo is fond of the packaged deal: The Ellenson Brothers, The Brothers Hauser, the Detroit Trio and apparently the Gardner Webb web. Instead of JUCOs, Woj has been hit or miss with his transfers and his packaged deals have been mixed.

When you are recruiting to fill so many one year holes (including one and dones), you are not program building or balancing very well.

[burger]

QUOTE:      This is why the coaches are the stars in college ball, not the players.  The players always change, but the coach and his system stay the same.

Totally agree......The coach makes all the difference.....

Look at what they guy from Buffalo has done for Alabama which has been nothing but a failure over the past 20+ years......Look at what has happened to Florida after Bill Donovan has left.....

We had Buzz.....He did not want to be here.....

We need to find the "right coach" that really wants to be here once "vultures" appear and try to "coax" him away.....

The problem is WOJO is bringing in some really high quality recruits......They may developing at an average rate.....But we not getting an Pudner Value Add Top 25 development......The Crowders.....The Wades.....etc....etc.....

Grit and "value add"......We have no sense of urgency.....

Perfect example.....Carton can be that player.....Sure he was "damaged" at the meat-grinder named Ohio State.....And we have to "push lightly"......But somehow.....someone on the coaching staff needs to get it through to him that his ceiling is "unlimited"......How......It is above my pay grade.....I am not get paid 6 or 7 zero's to do it.....But these guys are.....Figure it out......Or get a coach......Either head or assistant that can.....That simple.....

[Galway Eagle]

What you missed with Buzz was Prep (Mayo, DeWilson), JUCOs and transfers (Jamil, Jake, Lockett). You also missed Magic Dawson. Buzz had a strong ability to balance his classes including Buzz Cutting. Again for better or worse.

Wojo is fond of the packaged deal: The Ellenson Brothers, The Brothers Hauser, the Detroit Trio and apparently the Gardner Webb web. Instead of JUCOs, Woj has been hit or miss with his transfers and his packaged deals have been mixed.

When you are recruiting to fill so many one year holes (including one and dones), you are not program building or balancing very well.

Carlino DJ and Reinhardt vs Jamil Lockett and Jake seems like a wash. I can't dignify De Wilson with a response. I'm not arguing buzz was better at finding under the radar guys. (Jucos, Gardner, Mayo) but that just based on High School reports Wojo's objectively a great high school recruiter.

Please tell me that was sarcasm on Magic Dawson...

[Dr. Blackheart]

Carlino DJ and Reinhardt vs Jamil Lockett and Jake seems like a wash. I can't dignify De Wilson with a response. I'm not arguing buzz was better at finding under the radar guys. (Jucos, Gardner, Mayo) but that just based on High School reports Wojo's objectively a great high school recruiter.

Please tell me that was sarcasm on Magic Dawson...

I guess we missed Luke too for Buzz. To me the difference with the JUCO transfers, Jamil, Luke, and even Jake (situational shooter who started as a walk on) were the years. One year graduates or one and dones are still holes to fill with your current roster. I hope DJ stays more than one.

And Magic? The program saver?

[Galway Eagle]

I guess we missed Luke too for Buzz. To me the difference with the JUCO transfers, Jamil, Luke, and even Jake (situational shooter who started as a walk on) were the years. One year graduates or one and dones are still holes to fill with your current roster. I hope DJ stays more than one.

And Magic? The program saver?

Yeah I didn't know who to count luke for. He probably could've left and gotten a waiver to play for someone else if he didn't want to play for Wojo. Seemed more of a situation where he actually wanted to play close to home and NW and UW were B1G schools which left Marquette.

I agree with your point about holes which agrees with my point that Wojo's bringing in great players but has no cohesion, he's not developing them, they leave, and we're left plugging square pegs into round holes.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Wojo is fond of the packaged deal: The Ellenson Brothers, The Brothers Hauser, the Detroit Trio and apparently the Gardner Webb web. Instead of JUCOs, Woj has been hit or miss with his transfers and his packaged deals have been mixed.

Wojo Package deal?

[MUfan12]

He had a good enough roster to win the conference title in 2018-19, good enough to win 20 of 22 games that season; they just were done in by poor team chemistry and coaching. He has had a good enough roster to give a lot of trouble to Nova, Creighton and Madison over the years, and to make the NCAA tournament 3 out of the last 4 years.

But look at the way he's closed seasons. They completely fall apart, and I think a good deal of that has to do with a lack of physicality. They're not built for 20 games in this league. You mention Nova and Creighton, those are finesse teams like MU.

Looking at the guys they recruit, strength doesn't seem to be something they value as much. And I'm not sure it's something the S&C staff values as much as trying to build athleticism. These guys usually leave with the bodies they come in with.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I've seen a couple of people say Buzz had a "system." Recruiting switchables and "toughness" is not a system. Buzz was an absolute mad scientist when it comes to coaching. He has an elite ability to cater an offensive and defensive plan to fit his roster. Its what made him so good. Just for an example, here are the adjusted tempo rankings for Buzz' teams at Marquette:

08-09: 78
09-10: 305
10-11: 116
11-12: 15
12-13: 230
13-14: 186

Tempo isn't everything, but it shows wild swings in style of play from year to year, not the markings of a system coach. Buzz was good at balancing rosters and identifying players who would respond to his style of coaching and this allowed him to change the system yearly to best fit his players.

[4everwarriors]

Wee kneed a coach like Beard, hey?

[hairy worthen]

I've seen a couple of people say Buzz had a "system." Recruiting switchables and "toughness" is not a system. Buzz was an absolute mad scientist when it comes to coaching. He has an elite ability to cater an offensive and defensive plan to fit his roster. Its what made him so good. Just for an example, here are the adjusted tempo rankings for Buzz' teams at Marquette:

08-09: 78
09-10: 305
10-11: 116
11-12: 15
12-13: 230
13-14: 186

Tempo isn't everything, but it shows wild swings in style of play from year to year, not the markings of a system coach. Buzz was good at balancing rosters and identifying players who would respond to his style of coaching and this allowed him to change the system yearly to best fit his players.

Good coaches have a system and recruit players to fit their system AND/OR adjust their system to the strength of the players they recruit. I am not sure Wojo does either.

You are correct recruiting switchables and toughness is not a system it is an identity. Of course, Wojo’s teams do not have a consistent identity either.

[Galway Eagle]

Good coaches have a system and recruit players to fit their system AND/OR adjust their system to the strength of the players they recruit. I am not sure Wojo does either.

You are correct recruiting switchables and toughness is not a system it is an identity. Of course, Wojo’s teams do not have a consistent identity either.

This year it seems like he adjusted his system to make sure it doesn't fit his players

[MUfan12]

This year it seems like he adjusted his system to make sure it doesn't fit his players

This has bugged me so much. Their best stretches this season have been when they play with pace, and get aggressive defensively. Instead, they slow it down.

Playing slow hasn't prevented turnovers on offense. And the halfcourt defense sucks ass anyway, might as well throw some more pressure in there.

[cheebs09]

This has bugged me so much. Their best stretches this season have been when they play with pace, and get aggressive defensively. Instead, they slow it down.

Playing slow hasn't prevented turnovers on offense. And the halfcourt defense sucks ass anyway, might as well throw some more pressure in there.

It feels like all of our big runs include Carton or Koby creating some havoc up top.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

Yes.  Thank you.

Can they get out of control playing fast?  Definitely.  But the times when DJ is doing well for instance, is when he is pushing the ball. 

This is why ultimately I think he isn't very good.  Recruiting is fine.  Absolutely fine.  But the inability to see and fix things that seem obvious, or make adjustments when other coaches figure out what we are doing, is the issue.

[Billy Hoyle]

I guess we missed Luke too for Buzz. To me the difference with the JUCO transfers, Jamil, Luke, and even Jake (situational shooter who started as a walk on) were the years. One year graduates or one and dones are still holes to fill with your current roster. I hope DJ stays more than one.

And Magic? The program saver?

Sandy signed under Buzz too.

[Galway Eagle]

Sandy signed under Buzz too.

Recommitted under Wojo after being let out of his commitment. I didn't include Ahmed Hill, Nick Noskowiak, or Malek Harris either if everybody's going to get that nitpicky

[MU82]

Wee kneed a coach like Beard, hey?

He's a heck of a coach, but ...

++ He gives McClung the same kind of freedom Wojo gave Markus. Mac can shoot anytime from anywhere on the court. Mac puts his head down, gets spinning and flying around, totally ignores his teammates. I hope a letter isn't coming from a few of them!

++ If we ever hire a coach with the resume Beard had when Texas Tech signed him, you (and many other Scoopers) will proclaim it a terrible hire.

But yes, it would be nice if our AD/president could unearth a gem like Beard, somebody who coached only 1 season of D1 ball (at Arkansas Little Rock) but turns out to be an outstanding coach.

Buzz arguably had an even slimmer resume, of course, so it wouldn't be unprecedented. What were your feelings at the time about Buzz?