Well that sucked

[tower912]

MU tried fought and had opportunities in the second half to make it interesting (looking at you, KR.  Make corner 3's), but....

1.  Size matters.   Many tried to convince themselves otherwise, but sometimes it does.   Pretty sure I said I was concerned about MU's ability to handle a genuine stretch 4 tonight. 
2.  Making 3's  matters.   MU shot poorly tonight.   Predictable outcome.  Because.... 
3.   Defense matters.   UM hired a coach in the offseason to do nothing but coach defense.   Long athletic defenders who are as quick as MU's 6'5 guys?   Predictable outcome.   Because.....
4.  The worst part is that MU got lazy and selfish on offense for most of the game. 
5.  Or maybe the worst part was that MU couldn't defend the 3 or the pick and roll. 
6.  But in the end, it was one game.   Most of us knew that MU wasn't going to go undefeated. 
7.  Most important game of the season is tomorrow night.    Let's see how the team bounces back. 

[fjm]

Tomorrow is going to be HUGE... it will show a lot. Can this team recover?

The first half we looked great the first 5 min but gees things got ugly quick.
Also that first half I felt like we were getting zero open 3 looks. They were in us so well.

[🏀]

Traci was not very good.

Kept looking to Luke too much.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I didnt love the offense -- too much standing around.  Our strength is our depth of guards and we seemed to tighten up in how we played and the depth of our rotation.

[Newsdreams]

Traci was not very good.

Kept looking to Luke too much.

UM was guarding the 3 pt line with bigs all nite long and when we had looks didn't make them. good coachingas expected

[dgies9156]

6.  But in the end, it was one game.   Most of us knew that MU wasn't going to go undefeated. 

Well, here's hoping we had an off night.

It's early. Our guys wake up tomorrow, shake the dust off and go kick some Panther backside/

[Earl Tatum]

Live by the three---Die by the three. Height and decision making matters

[GB Warrior]

I didnt love the offense -- too much standing around.  Our strength is our depth of guards and we seemed to tighten up in how we played and the depth of our rotation.

Agreed. On nights like that, we need to attack the rim and get to the line. Team looked soft tonight.

[mug644]

I didnt love the offense -- too much standing around.  Our strength is our depth of guards and we seemed to tighten up in how we played and the depth of our rotation.

I couldn't believe how much we relied on Fischer tonight. No one was willing to take an outside shot.

[Wade for President]

I don't know what you guys are talking about.  I thought we moved the ball well, hit timely 3 balls, and played above the rim. 

Oh wait...my bad.  I watched the entire game thinking we were wearing gold jerseys.

[Newsdreams]

Well, here's hoping we had an off night.

It's early. Our guys wake up tomorrow, shake the dust off and go kick some Panther backside/

Think we are exposed with teams that have athletic bigs that can guard perimeter. We were not good inside and were off rhythm from 3 pt line

[lohaus]

I don't think Luke can defend the pick  and roll. Michigan picked on him all night by getting him on the downhill side.  At a certain point show and get the Hell out of the way so the guards don't have to recover around Luke. I'd expect him to be put in the same situation all season

[The Thing]

I am not loving Reinhardt. He was especially bad tonight but I have commented negatively on his shot selection after the first two games as well. I'm not sure he deserves the minutes he is getting. I hope he proves me wrong at some point.

[rocky_warrior]

I am not loving Reinhardt. He was especially bad tonight but I have commented negatively on his shot selection after the first two games as well. I'm not sure he deserves the minutes he is getting. I hope he proves me wrong at some point.

Yup, at some point you could have at least tried Wilson, Cohen, or Rowsey.

[BM1090]

We got our asses kicked. It was miserable to watch. But every single one of us would have signed up for 3-1 before the season. Let's beat Pitt tomorrow...then feast on a few cupcakes.

[Bo Ryan's Massage Therapist]

I agree that Reinharts shot selection leaves a lot to be desired. I wish Wojo would mix up the defense from time to time. We have the horses so why not press or at least put full-court pressure on from time to time? 

[dgies9156]

Turnovers suck.

Cut the turnovers and we're in this game. Shades of last year.

[Newsdreams]

Yup, at some point you could have at least tried Wilson, Cowen, or Rowsey.

Who dat? 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Cut the turnovers and we're in this game. Shades of last year.

Time to bring back the balloon board!

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I was there. And it sucked.

[rocky_warrior]

Who dat? 

Hah.  Drinking too much I guess.

[Newsdreams]

I was there. And it sucked.

Go get drunk, I 'm but at home

[forgetful]

The title of this thread pretty much covered everything.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Ugly game. Had a chance to make a game of it late but missed a couple of key shots. I like that we didn't give up.

Let's see how they come back tomorrow and hope tonight was just an outlier. Not going to overreact yet.

[MU82]

Even with the crappy defense, if we had not committed so many lame turnovers -- many of which were unforced -- and hit a few 3s, it would have been a game.

It just wasn't our night.

Looking forward to tomorrow's game.

[Phuket MU Fan]

FWIW here is what I saw during the first half.  I saw a team that lost its composure five minutes into the game and reverted back to how they played last year.  I'm sure during the remaining 15 minutes of the first half Wojo reinforced that was the style of play he wanted to see. (Teal). We had three seniors on floor during most of that time.  They needed to step up, show some leadership and get the team back into their game plan. From my perspective they all failed. When you are an experienced senior there is more to the game than just playing your position. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Had really good seats at the garden. Gave me a great view of a painful loss. Don't think Michigan is that much better than us. They had a 12 minute stretch during that first half where everything went in Michigan's favor. Every shot was going in, every bounce went towards them, all our shots rimmed out, and we got foul after foul called on us. I think we won the other 28 minutes of the game, but we got our butts kicked so roundly during those 12 that there was no coming back. We put together a nice run in the 2nd half, good to see the boys not give up. 1 or 2 of those threes goes in (they were all good looks) and all of the sudden we are down single digits with 7 minutes left.

Really thought this came down to defensive game plans. Beilein ate Wojo's lunch on this one. They put a lot of length out at the three point line and neutralized all of our shooters. We seemed to forget how we won the first two games. We stopped swinging the ball. A lot of different players simply held the ball. I was behind the Marquette bench and Wojo was screaming for them to keep swinging. Guys just froze up. Then it became Katin, JJJ, and Haanif trying to take their guys 1 on 1 with no success.

On the other side of the ball, I feel like Wojo decided that since Michigan was good at hanging onto the ball (top 10 least turnovers per game in Division 1 last season), that we weren't going to try to pressure them. I think this was a huge mistake. We tried to beat them with half court defense and the systematically took it apart. I wrote in my PT Preview that Marquette needed to be picking up their guards at three quarter's court, if not full court. Use our depth to the fullest extent. They only have three guards on the roster who are any good. We should have been trying to wear them down, the mistakes would have come. Their bigs don't have the legs either to keep up in a track meet. Really think that was a poor game plan. That being said, Wojo made adjustments at the break and won the 2nd half. We went back to being more disruptive which frazzled them. They got open shots but they were rushed and frantic and they started missing. So poor game plan, good adjustment.

I have never seen so many travelling calls in a game. From where I was on the court, most of them (on both teams) seemed unnecessary. Maybe those watching at home got a better look. I also don't know how Michigan got to the line so much when they were mostly shooting jumpshots and we were the ones driving to the hoop.

I don't think Rowsey can play defense at this level. He's tenacious but gets lost on the court. Wojo literally yelled "Rowsey, where's your man?" Rowsey looked at the bench panicked and Michigan scored on an open jumper. Rowsey didn't see the floor the rest of the night. I'm convinced the offense is there but if he can't play defense at this level, I'm not sure what time he will see.

Katin caught a lot of flak this game but I didn't mind him. I didn't see any bad shots, just tough misses. Some say you should stop shooting when you miss a few, but I admire a player who has the guts to take an open shot after a few misses. He'll recover. Also, he is obnoxious on defense. I was close enough that I could hear him on the court. He talks constantly on defense to the guy he is guarding. He's pretty funny too.

Matt looked better tonight. Still a little frantic but some tough rebounds and a putback in traffic. He's not where I hoped he would be, but he'll get there.

We're gonna love Markus as long as he's here. Has to learn to play defense without fouling.

The Hausers were right behind the Marquette bench. Wish they could have come for a better game but glad to see them in attendance. Just mom and pop, no Joey.

I found Sacar! He was on the bench. Glad to see he could come along to NYC.

Luke did everything really well tonight....except guard the pick and roll. He was repeatedly brutalized. He overhelps on the guard and leaves his man with an open lane to the bucket. That has got to be corrected.

Got our butts kicked tonight. It happens. In the end, a 20 point loss is no different from a 1 point loss in overtime. We have plenty of opportunities to beat quality teams in the games ahead. Starting with those smelly kittens from Pitt. They've got a lot of big switchables, which is concerning. Though Luke and Matt will be the biggest guys on the court. However, they don't have a true PG on the roster besides a true freshman who is NOT ready. Should be turnover city tomorrow.

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

The over help/double team on the ball screen has been taught by wojo since he has been at MU it drives me crazy!!! Forces defensive rotation or a wide open layup if we dont get it. We are the worst ball screen defending team in the country. Its hugely frustrating and its not personnel.

[mileskishnish72]

Vandy must really suck.

[NCMUFan]

Sorry, missed the game completely.  Just looking at the box score when you add rebounds+ turnovers + steals we were even with Michigan.  Also personal fouls we were even.  Make you wonder how we lost by 18.    Oh well, on to Pitt.   From past Big East Tournaments, Pitt always did well at MSG.  I hope our boys will be ready.

[cschor]

 The first half was miserable. Still, I remember last year when Villanova got whacked by Oklahoma early in the season.  Let's hope we see Michigan again in a similar circumstance. 

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I don't think Luke can defend the pick  and roll. Michigan picked on him all night by getting him on the downhill side.  At a certain point show and get the Hell out of the way so the guards don't have to recover around Luke. I'd expect him to be put in the same situation all season

Agreed, disappointed that there was no adjustment even after the 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, etc. occurrence.  Actually, Heldt did a much better job defending against it than Luke.

[LloydsLegs]

UM won the first half.  MU won the second half.  It was like a tie.

[chapman]

I agree that Reinharts shot selection leaves a lot to be desired. I wish Wojo would mix up the defense from time to time. We have the horses so why not press or at least put full-court pressure on from time to time?

I know it's always the "when nothing else works" play, but I'd have liked to see the zone.  Maybe it makes you more susceptible to outside shooting, but they were getting 3's from easy penetration, so at least make them play differently.

[mug644]

I know it's always the "when nothing else works" play, but I'd have liked to see the zone.  Maybe it makes you more susceptible to outside shooting, but they were getting 3's from easy penetration, so at least make them play differently.

I was thinking the same thing, especially late in the 1st half. I figured they'd come out in the 2nd half in a zone, or with a 3/4 press at least. Neither happened.

[brewcity77]

I really wanted full court pressure last night and agree on using the zone. I know he came from man-to-man Duke, but he had the flexibility his first year. I thought that would lead to us being willing to switch up, but he seems just as adamant about man as Bo Ryan was.

[Jay Bee]

Live by the three---Die by the three. Height and decision making matters

But we didn't. We didn't work for the three, got frazzled and made dumb errors, turning over the ball. They didn't attempt many threes in the first half... about 25% of their rate in the first two games...

We need the three to be a very good team. Embrace it

[brewcity77]

But we didn't. We didn't work for the three, got frazzled and made dumb errors, turning over the ball. They didn't attempt many threes in the first half... about 25% of their rate in the first two games...

We need the three to be a very good team. Embrace it

Agreed. 3 attempts in the half ain't gonna cut it.

[tower912]

I said during the off-season that I feared an opponent constantly using Luke's man to screen for the high pick and roll, drawing him away from the basket.  I pictured dump offs to the other big.  Last night was just another way to exploit MU's lack of size.  Luke hedged, his 7 ft tall man rolled, only to be met at the rim by KR/JJ/HC/Hauser.   This will not be the last time we see this.   Get used to it.  Coach's adjustment will determine how the season goes.

[Boone]

Reinhardt needs to play less. His shooting is dreadful and he doesn't rebound a lick (zero in 19 minutes?!).

Heldt also credited with zero boards, although I specifically recall him grabbing one (evens out from the home cooking Dodds' stats crew dished out from the Howard game, where he came nowhere near grabbing 5 boards).

Rowsey looks overmatched at this level.

[tower912]

Duane should have got more run last night.  At the expense of JJ and KR.  Cohen, too.  MU was getting smoked.  Leave Cohen out there for 5 minutes and see if he can get his legs under him and his head on straight.

[DUNKS45]

To me in the first half they didn't make the extra pass to shoot more open 3's. Jae Bee is right we need to embrace the 3. Katin reminds me of Carlino, never saw a shot he didn't like. I liked the way we played in the second half, we didn't  roll over. Big game today. I hope Fraschilla isn't calling it.

[GGGG]

The most disheartening loss of the Wojo era.  The same damn things keep occurring.

**The team cannot guard anyone man to man who has any sense of how to move the ball.  They scored something like four baskets on simple pick and rolls in their first few possessions.  There comes a point where Luke's hedges have to be quick, and if he can't do that, take a chance with the outside shot versus giving up lay up after lay up.

**The offense just breaks down into hero ball.  If you are a small team that relies on shooting, you have to run something to create those shots.  That takes time and patience.  But these guys get going too fast and simply play frantic.  I know you want to push the pace, but there is a time and a place for that.  NOT when you are in the half court.

**Because the turnovers soon follow.  Mind-numbing bad turnovers.  Travelling...passes thrown with little chance of completion...charges because you aren't moving the ball.


Player thoughts:

**Traci Carter has no idea when he should just slow down.  He gets ramped up, goes to fast, and it impacts the entire team.  I have a feeling that Markus might be back to starting by the end of the year.

**Haanif and JJJ just try to do too much.

**Andrew Rowsey seems to be the lastest in a long line of "dominate in practice" type of players who don't do a lot during the actual games.

**Still think this team is better without Henry?  His size and mid-range game would have been very helpful.

This is exactly the type of game where I sympathize with the Wojo critics.  This is the third year he has been able to work on these issues, but the same things come up over and over again.  We are probably going to see a zone because no one can guard anyone and all that is going to do is take away transition.

As I said, very disheartening. 

[GGGG]

I liked the way we played in the second half,

Fool's gold. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The over help/double team on the ball screen has been taught by wojo since he has been at MU it drives me crazy!!! Forces defensive rotation or a wide open layup if we dont get it. We are the worst ball screen defending team in the country. Its hugely frustrating and its not personnel.

It's taught by most coaches actually. Its a very sound defensive strategy. The second player just can't overpursue.

[GGGG]

But we didn't. We didn't work for the three, got frazzled and made dumb errors, turning over the ball. They didn't attempt many threes in the first half... about 25% of their rate in the first two games...

We need the three to be a very good team. Embrace it

Exactly.  They need to run an offense with more movement to get people in a position to hit shots.  I have no clue what they were running last night. 

[muwarrior69]

Why didn't Wojo put Luke, Matt and Sam in at the same time to at least try to even out their hight advantage?

[GGGG]

Why didn't Wojo put Luke, Matt and Sam in at the same time to at least try to even out their hight advantage?

Three slow footed players against *that* offense? 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Why didn't Wojo put Luke, Matt and Sam in at the same time to at least try to even out their hight advantage?

That would have been a disaster. Matt and Luke should never be on the floor at the same time.

What I wish we would have seen was the death lineup. We only ran it for about 2 minutes. I think if sped the game up and abused their bigs with speed we would have had a better chance.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Wojo didn't bring a good defensive strategy to this game. The players didn't execute on offense.

[Marcus92]

Even with the crappy defense, if we had not committed so many lame turnovers -- many of which were unforced -- and hit a few 3s, it would have been a game.

The two most important factors for this team: eFG% and turnovers. If we've got the upper hand, we'll be in most games. But if we're not hitting threes, jumpers or even putbacks — and we're giving away 10 possessions a half — the odds are against us.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Wojo didn't bring a good defensive strategy to this game. The players didn't execute on offense.

Its amazing how often the players fail to execute recently

I think today will be a better day however

[Marcus92]

4. The worst part is that MU got lazy and selfish on offense for most of the game. 
5. Or maybe the worst part was that MU couldn't defend the 3 or the pick and roll. 

I feel the same way — couldn't decide where we were worst. About the only good thing was staying in the fight and holding Michigan to 29 second half points. Too little, too late.

7.  Most important game of the season is tomorrow night. Let's see how the team bounces back.

I'm not so worried about our effort or offense. Hope we can address some of the issues with defensive help and rotations.

[lurch91]

[tower912]

I dated a girl who could do that.

[frozena pizza]

I'm fine with living by the three but they have to be able to create open shots by playing up tempo and moving the ball to get the defense out of position.  Michigan defended the perimeter well and their size and athleticism prevented us from getting open looks.  Reinhardt seemed content to shoot anyway but showed that even great shooters are not going to hit many 3s when they are well defended or having to rush because of a good close out.  Unfortunately I think this scenario is going to play out a lot this year.  Hope it's better today.

[DienerTime34]

I thought colleges were cracking down on rape. Michigan should be ashamed of what it did to Marquette.

[tower912]

Last night, Michigan was the dog and MU was the hydrant.

[BobWildLoyalist]

Katin..WTF I know shooters have to keep shooting, but man this guy takes a lot of shots. Have not been impressed at all with him. Wojo needs to reel him in and shake the CA off him

[muwarrior69]

I thought colleges were cracking down on rape. Michigan should be ashamed of what it did to Marquette.

Well there is no crying in baseball and no safe spaces in basketball.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I thought colleges were cracking down on rape. Michigan should be ashamed of what it did to Marquette.

I know you're trying to be funny. This is just inappropriate.

[rocky_warrior]

OK, I was doubting on Michigan a lot.  But I did see bright side in our second half against them - some here didn't.  For those folks, look what they're doing to SMU.  Makes our game look a lot more respectable.

It's early in the season.  Yesterday was bad.  We should have won today.  But I refuse to believe that MU has a bad team.

edit: I should add, Kenpom had the Mich/SMU game as a 1 point win for Michigan.

[tower912]

Michigan looked like world beaters in NYC.   There defense looks markedly different from any other Bielein team I can remember.   If Billy Donlon keeps getting the credit and they keep playing defense like that, he is going to get a head gig somewhere next year. 

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

Michigan hits one 3 in the 1st half today against So Carolina. Unreal