Do It Right Because.....

[RubyWiscy]

Saw John Wooden once and he commented that one of the reasons he won so much was that he had the right facilities and administration's support. 

I also remember Rick commenting that one of the reasons he could not be successful at MU was that his efforts were constantly being compared (by the administration) to Al and the "Al did it without a weight room, etc., why can't you?" attitude.

Perhaps Hank and Rick should have been passed over at MU because they were too close to the Al years. Maybe they unwittingly contributed to the culture of deterioration as they were too close and too loyal to demand changes in the culture. We will never know with Hank. Rick, on the other hand, did go on and prove that he could coach. I still think they were both great coaches.

[Badgerhater]

There are several more pro teams now and today's NBA rosters are bigger.

There were virtually no foreign players then, which now take up lots of the new roster spots you just mentioned.

[augoman]

I remember the game too well.  Today it would have been reviewed and probably changed, and no T for Hank.  Painful to remember.
If Marquardt hadn't been hurt Doc would have stayed rather than going early to nba.  If my aunt had balls shed be my uncle.

Point is Hank was a great man, good AD, good coach.  Rick was not yet a good coach.  He should have paid MU and the Bucks for the experience he received.  I believe he was the source of the UW rumors in a power play much as TC was during his tenure.

[bilsu]

What?  How do you expect people to take you seriously when you say stuff like this?

None of the above had anything to do with "fate" or "destiny."  It had everything to do with coaches and players performing relatively better on one team when compared to the other.  Nothing mystical about it.

I really do not care if you take me seriously. However, how many people would even remember McGuire, if he lost in 1970 NIT after rejecting NCAA bid and if he had not won title in 1977 after announcing he was retiring? Some people are destined for greatness and some are not. Besides that if you talk to any old North Carolina fan, the only reason MU won the 1977 title was because Mitch Kupchik (sp) was hurt. A lot of things had to go right for MU to win title in 1977. They were a borderline team to get a bid and were actually up at half at Michigan when the bid came out. MU lost that game and some people speculated they would not have even got a bid, if the game had been completed prior to bid announcements. Then you have MU winning on a Whitehead tip in on a full court pass. Was that players playing great or was that destiny? On paper the 1977 was a great team, but the whole year they significantly underperformed and still won the title. I say that was destiny. At least it ended up being a great story and added to McGuire's legacy as much or more than McGuire stupidly turning down NCAA bid with a team that missed the final 4 the year before because of a Rick Mount buzzer beater.

[bilsu]

There were virtually no foreign players then, which now take up lots of the new roster spots you just mentioned.

This is a valid point.

[Goose]

bilsu

Wasn't MU preseason #1 going into Al's final season?

[GGGG]

I really do not care if you take me seriously. However, how many people would even remember McGuire, if he lost in 1970 NIT after rejecting NCAA bid and if he had not won title in 1977 after announcing he was retiring? Some people are destined for greatness and some are not. Besides that if you talk to any old North Carolina fan, the only reason MU won the 1977 title was because Mitch Kupchik (sp) was hurt. A lot of things had to go right for MU to win title in 1977. They were a borderline team to get a bid and were actually up at half at Michigan when the bid came out. MU lost that game and some people speculated they would not have even got a bid, if the game had been completed prior to bid announcements. Then you have MU winning on a Whitehead tip in on a full court pass. Was that players playing great or was that destiny? On paper the 1977 was a great team, but the whole year they significantly underperformed and still won the title. I say that was destiny. At least it ended up being a great story and added to McGuire's legacy as much or more than McGuire stupidly turning down NCAA bid with a team that missed the final 4 the year before because of a Rick Mount buzzer beater.

Or it was simply a case of an "underperforming" team getting its head out its asses when it mattered.

My dad used to say about that team that it was on the one hand Al's worst coaching job during the regular season, but his best during the tournament.

[Goose]

Sultan,

I would agree with your Dad. When chips were all in and we ran the table. We let down in 2nd half against Michigan after the getting the bid and lost. If bid would have been on the line we win that game. After final loss at home to Wichita State we played like national champs. NC fans can say all they want about why we won and means nothing to me. We started season #1 and ended it #1.

[keefe]

The area around Marquette was seedy well before Hank took over.

And that's not including the bars, which were seedy - in a good way.

Depends on one's point of view. I rather liked the earthy atmosphere north of Wells.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Sultan,

I would agree with your Dad. When chips were all in and we ran the table. We let down in 2nd half against Michigan after the getting the bid and lost. If bid would have been on the line we win that game. After final loss at home to Wichita State we played like national champs. NC fans can say all they want about why we won and means nothing to me. We started season #1 and ended it #1.

Close, but not quite.

MU was preseason #2 behind Michigan at #1. 

By the December 21st poll, we dropped to #6.  A week later we were 12th.  By Feb 1st, we had worked our way back up to 6th.  However, by March 1st we had fallen all the way down to 19th.  In the final poll (after the championship) we finished 7th.  Michigan was 1st, followed by UCLA.

[Goose]

Chico's

I do believe we were #1 in SI and Basketball Weekly preseason. I meant we were #1 at season end because we won the whole thing.

[4everwarriors]

I'm here to tell you Mitch Kupschak left UNC in '76 and consequently didn't figure in the Warriors vs Tarheels game at the Omni. On the other hand, Tom Lagarde was the injured member of the UNC team referred to earlier in this thread. There also was uncertainty prior to the game whether Phil Ford could compete due to injury. As we know, O'Koren, Davis, Kuester, Ford, et al did compete, but Butch and Bo, Rosie, BT, Jay, JB, Cloudpiercer, Bill, Robert, and friends kicked ass.

[dgies9156]

Nice history lessons one and all. The give and take on our championship season and on Hank has been wonderful.

Now back to the real question: Will history repeat itself? Are we confident that our administration, be it LW, Father Pilarz or others will make the business decisions that keep our program one of the best in the country?

We've been down this road before. As I said in the beginning, I'm worried.

[keefe]

bilsu

Wasn't MU preseason #1 going into Al's final season?

No. Michigan was. Marquette stayed #2 behind Michigan until Feb when the losses started pilingv up then plummeted to 16 before the tournament. Remember, MU lost 7 games going into the Tourney.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chico's

I do believe we were #1 in SI and Basketball Weekly preseason. I meant we were #1 at season end because we won the whole thing.

Could be, I was going off the AP. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

No. Michigan was. Marquette stayed #2 behind Michigan until Feb when the losses started pilingv up then plummeted to 16 before the tournament. Remember, MU lost 7 games going into the Tourney.

Actually we fell in December

http://www.collegepollarchive.com/mbasketball/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?seasonid=1977&teamid=100

[4everwarriors]

That's 'cuz immediately after Al announced, in early December, his pending retirement, the Warriors lost at home to both Louisville and Minnesota.

[DoggyDaddy]

And in the following year 77-78, Hank's first, wasn't MU the preseason #1?  I think they held on to it for a good while, too.
All I can recall is that horrible ending in the first round of the tournament (we may still have been #1) to who?  Miami of Ohio?  This was crushing.  It was the beginning of a long, slow, painful slide.  That team was loaded (only Bo was gone).  Like the 1971 group, it deserved a much longer run against the best teams in the country.  The 78 and 71 teams may have been MU's finest.  Maybe this is best left to another thread. 
I loved Hank and Rick but whatever Al added: flair, panache, NYC connections--was missing.  National TV coverage dropped off with the graduation of Butch, Boylen and Whitehead after that sour finish.  MU's prospects diminished as a national power.  It remained a very well-coached team with very good players like Doc but not a real contender anymore-- at least not for #1 status.

[Dr. Blackheart]

The Big East basketball conference was started in 1979, combined with the start of East Coast cable and ESPN was the beginning of the end...combined with Al's retirement which effectively shut MU's door to the NYC talent pool.  More so, DePaul was also on the rise with cable giant WGN...and also combined with Al's retirement, started to close the door to the Chicago pipeline...with Doc being the last out for a while...and even Rick losing out at first with Sir Walter whom he coached in camp for years.  

There are lessens learned here for striking first with a strong hoops first conference rather than waiting and watching a quick slide followed by a couple of decades in the dumpster. The fabric of success is thin.

[bilsu]

And in the following year 77-78, Hank's first, wasn't MU the preseason #1?  I think they held on to it for a good while, too.
All I can recall is that horrible ending in the first round of the tournament (we may still have been #1) to who?  Miami of Ohio?  This was crushing.  It was the beginning of a long, slow, painful slide.  That team was loaded (only Bo was gone).  Like the 1971 group, it deserved a much longer run against the best teams in the country.  The 78 and 71 teams may have been MU's finest.  Maybe this is best left to another thread. 
I loved Hank and Rick but whatever Al added: flair, panache, NYC connections--was missing.  National TV coverage dropped off with the graduation of Butch, Boylen and Whitehead after that sour finish.  MU's prospects diminished as a national power.  It remained a very well-coached team with very good players like Doc but not a real contender anymore-- at least not for #1 status.

There are a lot of similarities between Hank and Buzz. They both inherited very strong senior laden teams without much talent returning beyond that. Hank went 24-4. I remember one of the losses being at Louisville with Butch Lee missing free throws at end of game. Of course I remember the Miami of Ohio game. I do not remember the other two losses. Al's last recruiting class had one player Robert Byrd. Crean's last recruiting class after defections ended up being Chris Otule. The 4 man class before that flamed out with Saunder's(?) not being admitted, and the other three transferring out. Hank's first recruiting class was horrible. After that he did quite well in recruiting. Buzz had some immediate success with bringing in Butler and then DJO and Buycks, but most of his freshmen recruits were flameouts. Raymonds of course was hurt by Miami of Ohio loss and Buzz was hurt by James breaking his foot. Raymonds went by memory 24-4, 22-9 and 18-9 before going on an upswing. Buzz went 25-10, 22-12 and 22-15 before going on an upswing last year.

[GGGG]

And in the following year 77-78, Hank's first, wasn't MU the preseason #1? 

My recollection is that back then, defending champions were routinely ranked #1.  Not always...

[ChicosBailBonds]

And in the following year 77-78, Hank's first, wasn't MU the preseason #1?  I think they held on to it for a good while, too.

No, we were preseason #3...got up to number 1 late in the season in February, but lost.  That team lost 61-60 to Louisville, 68-64 to Loyola, 65-59 to Notre Dame (they knocked off #1 MU) and then in the NCAAs to Miami.

http://www.collegepollarchive.com/mbasketball/ap/teams/by_season.cfm?teamid=100&seasonid=1978


We've held the number 1 ranking three times in our history, and each time we lost that week to drop from the top spot.

[keefe]

That's 'cuz immediately after Al announced, in early December, his pending retirement, the Warriors lost at home to both Louisville and Minnesota.

That Minnesota game was great. We fell behind by 20 then staged a furious rally to take the lead. That Minnesota team was no slouch. It had Kevin McHale, Flip Saunders, and the Bahamian Brute, Mychal Thompson. There is no shame in losing to that squad.

[keefe]

Besides that if you talk to any old North Carolina fan, the only reason MU won the 1977 title was because Mitch Kupchik (sp) was hurt.

Kupchak was gone by then. An interesting note is that Jimmy Boylan contacted Dean Smith about transferring from Assumption. Dean had John Kuester and Phil Ford so he picked up the phone and called Al. The rest is history.

[MU82]

No, we were preseason #3...got up to number 1 late in the season in February, but lost.  That team lost 61-60 to Louisville, 68-64 to Loyola, 65-59 to Notre Dame (they knocked off #1 MU) and then in the NCAAs to Miami.

We've held the number 1 ranking three times in our history, and each time we lost that week to drop from the top spot.

I'd love to get back up to No. 1 to see what happens next time!