MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: ChicosBailBonds on May 28, 2016, 10:27:56 AM
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That is all
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Seconded!
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They had great chocolate chip cookies if I recall.
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In ohare about to fly from Chicago to La on spirit for $140 bucks. The duffle bag ("personal item") I have is a good size that hold enough cloths for 8 days including beach wear and thick layers for hiking mt Whitney. You can have your cookie and comfy seat. I'll take my cheap flight
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In ohare about to fly from Chicago to La on spirit for $140 bucks. The duffle bag ("personal item") I have is a good size that hold enough cloths for 8 days including beach wear and thick layers for hiking mt Whitney. You can have your cookie and comfy seat. I'll take my cheap flight
Each way or RT? Chick and I work hard to get super cheap tix to LAS. I've done it as cheaply as $128 RT, but that's extraordinary. Always SWA.
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Definitely miss The Best Care in the Air :'(
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Each way or RT? Chick and I work hard to get super cheap tix to LAS. I've done it as cheaply as $128 RT, but that's extraordinary. Always SWA.
You dont get a carry-on in that price. Or water. Or even choosing row, aisle, or window. Im not fan of SW compared to a lot of people, but I'll fly it any day over the no-frills flying Greyhound experience on Spirit. Ive known multiple people whose planes hasn't been cleaned in between trips on that airline.
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They had great chocolate chip cookies if I recall.
And vino
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For another throw back our family always used ATA when we went to Florida.
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You dont get a carry-on in that price. Or water. Or even choosing row, aisle, or window. Im not fan of SW compared to a lot of people, but I'll fly it any day over the no-frills flying Greyhound experience on Spirit. Ive known multiple people whose planes hasn't been cleaned in between trips on that airline.
It's 140 rt. And I never understood the complaint about water. It's three bucks if you really want one. I saved over $150 rt compared to sw. I brought an empty water bottle and filled it up. If you are that concerned buy a water for 3 bucks. The personal item is a decent size. I have jeans, running shoes, sandals, six shirts, 2 swimsuits, a computer, 2 pairs of running shorts, tablet, another pair of sailing shoes, a dress shirt, socks and underwear. As long as you aren't going to a wedding with a tux you will be fine.
The only complaint I get is the small seats if you are are above average height or weight. The experience is flying in a tin can and I can't tell a difference between spirit and any other airline.
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For another throw back our family always used ATA when we went to Florida.
ATA got bought out by SWA.
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ATA got bought out by SWA.
Air Tran got bought out by SWA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirTran_Airways
ATA went bankrupt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATA_Airlines
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Air Tran got bought out by SWA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AirTran_Airways
ATA went bankrupt.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATA_Airlines
That's right....I always did those two confused. America Trans Air/AirTran
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These low fare guys...ugh. Spirit, Frontier, etc....just brutal
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These low fare guys...ugh. Spirit, Frontier, etc....just brutal
No one is forcing anyone to fly on them.
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These low fare guys...ugh. Spirit, Frontier, etc....just brutal
Hate every motherfookin' one of them. SWA sucks major ass. From MKE its basically SWA or nothin'. Been known to fly outta ORD to LAX on VX. At least they treat ya like a human bein'. Though, who knows what that'll be like after da Alaska Air acquistion, ai na?
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These low fare guys...ugh. Spirit, Frontier, etc....just brutal
I feel the same about Southwest. Some people swear by them, but the awkward check in and seating process is terrible for couples. Even on full flights, all the individuals take the window and aisle, preventing you from sitting with your spouse. And adding a sixth seat to each row when the planes were only built for 5 across...just bad and uncomfortable.
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Hate every motherfookin' one of them. SWA sucks major ass. From MKE its basically SWA or nothin'. Been known to fly outta ORD to LAX on VX. At least they treat ya like a human bein'. Though, who know what that'll be like after da Alaska Air acquistion, ai na?
Alaska is great. always a very good experience: cheerful employees and really reasonable upgrades to First where they are free with the booze and the food is edible and delicious.
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I feel the same about Southwest. Some people swear by them, but the awkward check in and seating process is terrible for couples. Even on full flights, all the individuals take the window and aisle, preventing you from sitting with your spouse. And adding a sixth seat to each row when the planes were only built for 5 across...just bad and uncomfortable.
Glow and i have been on dozens of SWA flights and have never been forced to sit apart. If you are in A or B, it isn't a problem. And we have saved thousands of dollars in the process.
We find legacy airlines to have old planes and surly flight attendants. And we hate getting nickel and dimed for everything.
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You dont get a carry-on in that price. Or water. Or even choosing row, aisle, or window. Im not fan of SW compared to a lot of people, but I'll fly it any day over the no-frills flying Greyhound experience on Spirit. Ive known multiple people whose planes hasn't been cleaned in between trips on that airline.
You are completely misinformed. Every SWA flight has beverage service with long flights getting fairly significant snacks. Carry-on luggage is also free, as are 2 checked bags. And I always get my choice of window/aisle, just not until I walk on the plane. Just because it's not for you.......
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I feel the same about Southwest. Some people swear by them, but the awkward check in and seating process is terrible for couples. Even on full flights, all the individuals take the window and aisle, preventing you from sitting with your spouse. And adding a sixth seat to each row when the planes were only built for 5 across...just bad and uncomfortable.
You know a domestic carrier that uses 737-700 series aircraft with 5 across? I don't.
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I love Southwest. If I have to change flights for whatever reason, there are no extra fees. They are usually nice and very flexible. If I don't like my seating number, I spring for the A1-15 spot.
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This airline was founded by Kimberly-Clark initially to support business travel from Appleton.
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I dislike Southwest because their employees are loud. Shuttup and let me fly.
Flying sucks no matter what the airline. If you can take a backpack, there's nothing wrong with Spirit.
I've never been on a flight (hundreds of flights) where I've thought, "wow, that was enjoyable. Great time!"
It sucks.
Midwest was good because the seats were relatively comfortable, they gave you warm cookie and wine... but it still sucked.
Just please be on time and let me not be around kids or extraordinarily gross people.
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So, children and F*ckin' bother you, hey?
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So, children and F*ckin' bother you, hey?
One in the same, a''inal?
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Glow and i have been on dozens of SWA flights and have never been forced to sit apart. If you are in A or B, it isn't a problem. And we have saved thousands of dollars in the process.
We find legacy airlines to have old planes and surly flight attendants. And we hate getting nickel and dimed for everything.
Last flight we took from New Orleans we were in B and had to sit apart. Walking down the plane, literally every side had one person in the window, one on the aisle. As we got to the back of the plane, some single kid took the last aisle seat so my wife and I had to sit a few aisles apart. Of course, it was a full flight so none of the people ended up with a vacant seat next to them.
I don't like the scramble trying to check in, or how you get screwed on selection if you have something going on at the time you're supposed to check in. Glow is right that it's not for me, but that's why I said what I said. I don't like the airline and generally haven't enjoyed all the extra hassles flying with them in the past. I'm willing to pay a little extra for better treatment and not having to rush and fight for a seat.
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Last flight we took from New Orleans we were in B and had to sit apart. Walking down the plane, literally every side had one person in the window, one on the aisle. As we got to the back of the plane, some single kid took the last aisle seat so my wife and I had to sit a few aisles apart. Of course, it was a full flight so none of the people ended up with a vacant seat next to them.
I don't like the scramble trying to check in, or how you get screwed on selection if you have something going on at the time you're supposed to check in. Glow is right that it's not for me, but that's why I said what I said. I don't like the airline and generally haven't enjoyed all the extra hassles flying with them in the past. I'm willing to pay a little extra for better treatment and not having to rush and fight for a seat.
You understand that paying something like $12 extra puts you in line automatically following priority boarders, yes? Almost certainly within the first 45 or so onboard and certainly able to get 2 seats together on a 137 seat airplane. But I'm not trying to sell you. Everyone's mileage varies. But we fly them by choice. I even did for business when I had A List status.
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MWE was the last airline that actually treated people in coach like human beings. Nowadays, they all treat you as self-loading cargo.
Anything under 500 miles these days, I just drive. And I try really hard not to go more than 500 miles.
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Crean sucks
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I dislike Southwest because their employees are loud. Shuttup and let me fly.
Flying sucks no matter what the airline. If you can take a backpack, there's nothing wrong with Spirit.
I've never been on a flight (hundreds of flights) where I've thought, "wow, that was enjoyable. Great time!"
It sucks.
Midwest was good because the seats were relatively comfortable, they gave you warm cookie and wine... but it still sucked.
Just please be on time and let me not be around kids or extraordinarily gross people.
Agreed with just about all of this.
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MWE was the last airline that actually treated people in coach like human beings. Nowadays, they all treat you as self-loading cargo.
Anything under 500 miles these days, I just drive. And I try really hard not to go more than 500 miles.
Totally agree on the driving. If it's less than a seven hour drive you will save time driving. Once you factor in waiting and car rentals.
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A lot of cheap, miserable people here.
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A lot of cheap, miserable people here.
And one who apparently can't read.
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I love Southwest. If I have to change flights for whatever reason, there are no extra fees. They are usually nice and very flexible. If I don't like my seating number, I spring for the A1-15 spot.
That's another perk about Southwest I forgot to mention. There is no such thing as a completely nonrefundable airfare. If you need to cancel, they give you a credit for the amount of the airfare that is good for a year.
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No one is forcing anyone to fly on them.
I know, though some places those are the only routes out there so in a way you are stuck. Depends on the city. I just miss having a middle of the road airline that costs a little more, but has some amenities.
Is what it is....the marketplace decided.
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I dislike Southwest because their employees are loud. Shuttup and let me fly.
Flying sucks no matter what the airline. If you can take a backpack, there's nothing wrong with Spirit.
I've never been on a flight (hundreds of flights) where I've thought, "wow, that was enjoyable. Great time!"
It sucks.
Midwest was good because the seats were relatively comfortable, they gave you warm cookie and wine... but it still sucked.
Just please be on time and let me not be around kids or extraordinarily gross people.
I fly a lot, and there are some airlines I actually used to get semi excited, or at least not bummed out about taking. Midwest was one of them. Hot towels, cookies, wine, lobster bisque, wide seats, decent looking stewardesses (I don't use the FA terminology).
Flew United this week which I haven't flown in some time. Wow has that airline fallen down. Frontier I have to literally be on my last gasp, same for Spirit. SWA, I've never had a problem with because it's just always been that way for 30 years....so my expectation bias is different.
Jet Blue in 2 weeks. Virgin in 3. Then back to my old standard, American...only because I have more points than I can count, but not a great service either.
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I fly a lot, and there are some airlines I actually used to get semi excited, or at least not bummed out about taking. Midwest was one of them. Hot towels, cookies, wine, lobster bisque, wide seats, decent looking stewardesses (I don't use the FA terminology).
Flew United this week which I haven't flown in some time. Wow has that airline fallen down. Frontier I have to literally be on my last gasp, same for Spirit. SWA, I've never had a problem with because it's just always been that way for 30 years....so my expectation bias is different.
Jet Blue in 2 weeks. Virgin in 3. Then back to my old standard, American...only because I have more points than I can count, but not a great service either.
So brave.
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So brave.
50 years behind the times - and proud of it! Wonder how "Negro" flies with his many non traditional acquaintances?
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I've never had a problem with southwest. Took it most recently to LA and Vegas. Vegas flight was one of the smoothest flights I've ever had. From boarding to taking off, no delays or anything.
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You understand that paying something like $12 extra puts you in line automatically following priority boarders, yes? Almost certainly within the first 45 or so onboard and certainly able to get 2 seats together on a 137 seat airplane. But I'm not trying to sell you. Everyone's mileage varies. But we fly them by choice. I even did for business when I had A List status.
Thread started with discussion of Midwest Express, evolved to topics of airlines people dislike. I'm not a fan of Southwest for the aforementioned reasons. Really not sure why you guys seem to be taking that personally. Stockholders?
I don't begrudge you using or enjoying Southwest. My parents are big fans, obviously many other people also are. Just not my cup of tea and seemed an appropriate place to express why.
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Thread started with discussion of Midwest Express, evolved to topics of airlines people dislike. I'm not a fan of Southwest for the aforementioned reasons. Really not sure why you guys seem to be taking that personally. Stockholders?
I don't begrudge you using or enjoying Southwest. My parents are big fans, obviously many other people also are. Just not my cup of tea and seemed an appropriate place to express why.
Yep. Different strokes for different folks. Not suggesting you're in this camp brew but I'm routinely dumbfounded by folks who have never tried a particular product or service and yet still have an opinion. I've flown legacies with some reasonable frequency over the years. I typically find them inefficient and old school 'union like'. I have not flown Frontier or Spirit but I'd give both a go. I used to love Midwest but their business model just couldn't remain profitable.
Someone above mentioned that commercial air travel has become like 'people cargo'. No disagreement from me. So my goal is to do that as painlessly as possible for the lowest and most flexible dollar possible. And as chick mentioned, one of the huge SWA draws for us is their change/cancellation flexibility. We always have trips west 'in the bank'. Scheduled to go in about 3 weeks. Are we actually going? Maybe, maybe not.
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It's 140 rt. And I never understood the complaint about water. It's three bucks if you really want one. I saved over $150 rt compared to sw. I brought an empty water bottle and filled it up. If you are that concerned buy a water for 3 bucks. The personal item is a decent size. I have jeans, running shoes, sandals, six shirts, 2 swimsuits, a computer, 2 pairs of running shorts, tablet, another pair of sailing shoes, a dress shirt, socks and underwear. As long as you aren't going to a wedding with a tux you will be fine.
The only complaint I get is the small seats if you are are above average height or weight. The experience is flying in a tin can and I can't tell a difference between spirit and any other airline.
Damn good price.
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Totally agree on the driving. If it's less than a seven hour drive you will save time driving. Once you factor in waiting and car rentals.
So true. And let's add TSA to the misery index.
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Someone above mentioned that commercial air travel has become like 'people cargo'. No disagreement from me. So my goal is to do that as painlessly as possible for the lowest and most flexible dollar possible. And as chick mentioned, one of the huge SWA draws for us is their change/cancellation flexibility. We always have trips west 'in the bank'. Scheduled to go in about 3 weeks. Are we actually going? Maybe, maybe not.
This is pretty much my attitude. I don't need a meal. Don't really even need a snack. I'll take a bottle of water, spring the $8 for SWA wifi, fold myself into my seat and endure.
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This is pretty much my attitude. I don't need a meal. Don't really even need a snack. I'll take a bottle of water, spring the $8 for SWA wifi, fold myself into my seat and endure.
You done Frontier or Spirit? Be interested in your comparison.
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Frontier only after they purchased Midwest. Not since they have become ultra low cost like Spirit, which I have never flown.
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Yep. Different strokes for different folks. Not suggesting you're in this camp brew but I'm routinely dumbfounded by folks who have never tried a particular product or service and yet still have an opinion. I've flown legacies with some reasonable frequency over the years. I typically find them inefficient and old school 'union like'. I have not flown Frontier or Spirit but I'd give both a go. I used to love Midwest but their business model just couldn't remain profitable.
I've flown Southwest I believe 3 times. For me, while there are a few minor things, the seating always frustrates me. Hate having to time your login, or having to interrupt the last day of your vacation, and frankly don't see why they don't just go to assigned seats. Does forcing customers to play lineup roulette really save anyone money?
I agree that air travel on the whole isn't the experience we had 20-30 years ago. Maybe springing for the A1-15 seats would change my tune, but my past experiences haven't encouraged me much.
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You don't really have to time your login to get your boarding number. Buy the Early Bird Check In. It does it for you. $15 per ticket.
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What surprises me is the number of people I have met who trash SWA and upon further questioning, I discover that they have never actually flown on it. For all intents and purposes, they were basing their opinion on Jay Leno jokes.
One time I was attending a conference in Philadepphia with some coworkers and I was tasked with booking our flights. One executive was livid that I booked us on Southwest, because he wasn't going to fly that "cattle car airline out of that crappy old airport". I found out that not only had this 55-year-old lifelong Chicagoan never flown Southwest, he had never actually been to Midway Airport - ever.
I convinced him to give it a try, and he was pleasantly surprised.
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I fly a lot, and there are some airlines I actually used to get semi excited, or at least not bummed out about taking. Midwest was one of them. Hot towels, cookies, wine, lobster bisque, wide seats, decent looking stewardesses (I don't use the FA terminology).
Flew United this week which I haven't flown in some time. Wow has that airline fallen down. Frontier I have to literally be on my last gasp, same for Spirit. SWA, I've never had a problem with because it's just always been that way for 30 years....so my expectation bias is different.
Jet Blue in 2 weeks. Virgin in 3. Then back to my old standard, American...only because I have more points than I can count, but not a great service either.
I'm a United guy, living in Chicago. Once upon a time, United and the legacy carriers were great airlines with comfortable seats, even in coach. The food was marginally edible in coach and somewhat attractive in first class.
I travel up front most of the time and in some ways it's worse that coach 40 years ago. The seats are nicer but the food is horrible and the wines selected for domestic consumption, I swear, is the same stuff we used to drink on the back side of Nine Mile Hill in Nashville in 1973. It's awful. A step down from Ripple or Mad Dog 20/20.
What happened to Midwest as well as the legacy carriers is simple. The public would sell their own mothers for a low airfare. The public has been conditioned to accept crappy service in return for low fares. That's the only way Southwest, Spirit, Frontier, ATA, AirTran, Peoples Express etc., could exist. United, Delta and American tried (remember "more room in Coach" on American) and realized they could make more money jamming people into an aircraft cabin like sardines. So, if you can't beat 'em join 'em.
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What surprises me is the number of people I have met who trash SWA and upon further questioning, I discover that they have never actually flown on it. For all intents and purposes, they were basing their opinion on Jay Leno jokes.
I've flown SWA plenty and still find it annoying. The little jokes and 'playfulness' of their employees are not enjoyable for me. I realize a lot of people are into that. I'm not. STFU unless you're axing me for my beverage selection.
I will give them credit for the refund/change flight deal. A few weeks ago I utilized it to make a late change (early morning of 3pm flight, moved it to a 830am flight).
vs. Spirit: (a) SWA's seats seem to have just a bit more leg room. Still uncomfortable as sin, but probably more leg room; (b) if you have more than a backpack, pricing can become an issue with Spirit.
Generally, I'll take Spirit (paying extra to select seat in advance) over SWA if I'm travelling light. I simply get annoyed with the happy-face crap SWA does. Even their ticker symbol is upsetting.
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Years ago travelling on bidness on Midwest Express... I think it was a Sunday night.. they were really letting the wine flow.. my seatmate was a lady in her 50's.. and after about 6 glasses of wine was getting very talkative to everyone around us... standing up, holding court with the plane.. eventually as we were starting our descent, she grabbed the big phone out of the chair in front of us (they had big ass phones in the headrest you could use, IIRC).. and called the person who was picking her up from the airport... she was SCREAMING... "I can barely hear you!! Hey! I'm almost there!! Why can't I HEAR YOU?!?!?!?"...
Then another passenger pointed out to her that she was holding the phone the wrong way.. had the speaker not to her ear, but to the outside... we all laughed and took another swig of wine.
Anyway, this afternoon I'm off to a rap concert with 35,000 people. It'll make flying SWA seem like floating in heaven.
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What happened to Midwest as well as the legacy carriers is simple. The public would sell their own mothers for a low airfare. The public has been conditioned to accept crappy service in return for low fares. That's the only way Southwest, Spirit, Frontier, ATA, AirTran, Peoples Express etc., could exist. United, Delta and American tried (remember "more room in Coach" on American) and realized they could make more money jamming people into an aircraft cabin like sardines. So, if you can't beat 'em join 'em.
I am 100% in agreement with this. Bummer, but the market has spoken. Race to the bottom.
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Good conversation, I enjoy hearing all of your opinions. I travel a lot for work, all on United since I live in Chicago and they can get me anywhere direct. I have no love for United, even with the occasional first class upgrade, I fly them purely out of necessity.
I know it's starting to gain momentum, and it's much more difficult than Uber/Airbnb, but it'll be interesting to see if these little start ups flying 6-8 passengers out of small regional airports will become more popular. I know there's some LA-San Fran flights that have gained popularity (no TSA, show up and take off, leg room, food/drink options).
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You are completely misinformed. Every SWA flight has beverage service with long flights getting fairly significant snacks. Carry-on luggage is also free, as are 2 checked bags. And I always get my choice of window/aisle, just not until I walk on the plane. Just because it's not for you.......
To be fair, I was talking about Spirit, not SWA.
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To be fair, I was talking about Spirit, not SWA.
Yep. Figured that out later. All good.
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I've flown SWA plenty and still find it annoying. The little jokes and 'playfulness' of their employees are not enjoyable for me. I realize a lot of people are into that. I'm not. STFU unless you're axing me for my beverage selection.
I will give them credit for the refund/change flight deal. A few weeks ago I utilized it to make a late change (early morning of 3pm flight, moved it to a 830am flight).
vs. Spirit: (a) SWA's seats seem to have just a bit more leg room. Still uncomfortable as sin, but probably more leg room; (b) if you have more than a backpack, pricing can become an issue with Spirit.
Generally, I'll take Spirit (paying extra to select seat in advance) over SWA if I'm travelling light. I simply get annoyed with the happy-face crap SWA does. Even their ticker symbol is upsetting.
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Years ago travelling on bidness on Midwest Express... I think it was a Sunday night.. they were really letting the wine flow.. my seatmate was a lady in her 50's.. and after about 6 glasses of wine was getting very talkative to everyone around us... standing up, holding court with the plane.. eventually as we were starting our descent, she grabbed the big phone out of the chair in front of us (they had big ass phones in the headrest you could use, IIRC).. and called the person who was picking her up from the airport... she was SCREAMING... "I can barely hear you!! Hey! I'm almost there!! Why can't I HEAR YOU?!?!?!?"...
Then another passenger pointed out to her that she was holding the phone the wrong way.. had the speaker not to her ear, but to the outside... we all laughed and took another swig of wine.
Anyway, this afternoon I'm off to a rap concert with 35,000 people. It'll make flying SWA seem like floating in heaven.
I find it somewhat annoying too but let it roll off my back. Kind of similar to my feelings about all those folks heading to LAS who fly 'once in never' and have no clue what they're doing. I must say that I do get annoyed by the folks who think they can bring every worldly possession on as a carry-on. Frankly, I think that's far worse on the legacies where check bags are charged.
Not sure you are aware that about 2-3 years ago SWA tried to sell us a bill of goods about their 'new' seats. They lightened the load and enabled SWA to add one row without compromising legroom. But the reality is these new seats suck and after spending many millions, they are quietly dumping them for a more comfortable replacement. Live and learn.
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What surprises me is the number of people I have met who trash SWA and upon further questioning, I discover that they have never actually flown on it. For all intents and purposes, they were basing their opinion on Jay Leno jokes.
I have never watched Jay Leno, but I have flown Southwest multiple times.
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i fly swa A LOT. mke to las like clockwork. never had a problem. they are (for me) always on time or early. i don't need to check any bags as all my stuff is already in havasu. if i stay in vegas for a few days on my way down to havasu, i'm a simple guy like marty. if there were any issues, they are over-ridden by the ease with which to make changes. most times my flights are $170's to 225? one way-right glow? depending on when and how far ahead you book
on the other hand, i've probably flown american like 5 times-NEVER without an incident, including getting to my son's destination wedding in dominican a day LATE and having a flight from vegas cancelled altogether(blue flu) now that airline really sucks. got to las at 7;30 am arrived in mke at midnight via atlanta and ord. was supposed to be home at noon
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plus swa has free wifi! i have watched MU games, golf, etc on my ipad
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Good conversation, I enjoy hearing all of your opinions. I travel a lot for work, all on United since I live in Chicago and they can get me anywhere direct. I have no love for United, even with the occasional first class upgrade, I fly them purely out of necessity.
I know it's starting to gain momentum, and it's much more difficult than Uber/Airbnb, but it'll be interesting to see if these little start ups flying 6-8 passengers out of small regional airports will become more popular. I know there's some LA-San Fran flights that have gained popularity (no TSA, show up and take off, leg room, food/drink options).
I looked into one of the regionals the other day, as I have to get to Vegas in a few weeks. Problem was the cost was insane...I mean crazy insane difference. If it was semi-reasonable, I would consider it, but not $1500 difference, for a one hour flight.
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I find it somewhat annoying too but let it roll off my back. Kind of similar to my feelings about all those folks heading to LAS who fly 'once in never' and have no clue what they're doing. I must say that I do get annoyed by the folks who think they can bring every worldly possession on as a carry-on. Frankly, I think that's far worse on the legacies where check bags are charged.
+35 Flew back from Cleveland to Denver the other day and these two clowns in front of me....I thought there was going to be a mutiny on the plane with their stuff. Jeebbus Christmas.
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I am 100% in agreement with this. Bummer, but the market has spoken. Race to the bottom.
yes, BUT...people absolutely went ape-sheet when they started dropping meals. it was kinda amusing to me. first of all, the only airline that had decent food was midwest-all the others were like mccormick on a good day. and the last thing i want to do on a flight across the country is drop a deuce during turbulence and after some fat guy just exited the can doing the same after his 2 double steak n bean burritos. not my idea of the mile high thing
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plus swa has free wifi!
Lies!!
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i fly swa A LOT. mke to las like clockwork. never had a problem. they are (for me) always on time or early. i don't need to check any bags as all my stuff is already in havasu. if i stay in vegas for a few days on my way down to havasu, i'm a simple guy like marty. if there were any issues, they are over-ridden by the ease with which to make changes. most times my flights are $170's to 225? one way-right glow? depending on when and how far ahead you book
on the other hand, i've probably flown american like 5 times-NEVER without an incident, including getting to my son's destination wedding in dominican a day LATE and having a flight from vegas cancelled altogether(blue flu) now that airline really sucks. got to las at 7;30 am arrived in mke at midnight via atlanta and ord. was supposed to be home at noon
MKE different animal than MDW. With some reasonable flexibility we try to shoot for $99 each way. If I see a sale, I'll literally jump on tickets (bank them) in hopes we can go. Do recall that we own a home out there so we have significant flexibility. We just booked that June trip because we got some darn good Friday night flights.
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You don't really have to time your login to get your boarding number. Buy the Early Bird Check In. It does it for you. $15 per ticket.
Do you still have to wait in line to get a good seat? I usually travel with a small travel bag to squeeze under the seat so I've never been in a hurry to get on a plane. And 15 per ticket seems a little excessive. That's sixty bucks rt for a couple. I don't love my wife enough to have to sit next to her on a plane when I'm just reading or watching something on a tablet.
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One thing I have noticed is that when you talk price with swa guys, they are always talking about 1-way. Always confuses me when they say a price and I can't believe how cheap the flight to (insert city) is compared to what I was looking at for other airlines. I got to the site and realize they meant one way.
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Lies!!
sorry, not wifi, but hook up to a number of tv channels, movies and music and coolest of all, the flightware. tells you how fast how far and where you are on a map
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One thing I have noticed is that when you talk price with swa guys, they are always talking about 1-way. Always confuses me when they say a price and I can't believe how cheap the flight to (insert city) is compared to what I was looking at for other airlines. I got to the site and realize they meant one way.
That should not confuse you more than once.
I think it is a much simpler way to book. You pick any flight you want going each way instead of wading through the dozens of flight combos that you would have to go through if you are booking on another airline.
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sorry, not wifi, but hook up to a number of tv channels, movies and music and coolest of all, the flightware. tells you how fast how far and where you are on a map
I'm surprised more airlines don't have ipads on the plane. I'm cheap as hell but will throw down five bucks for a movie and more likely to get a drink while flipping through. For a small up front investment, I'm sure those things will pay for themselves within months.
I agree that the flight watch is fascinating, especially on international trips.
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That should not confuse you more than once.
I think it is a much simpler way to book. You pick any flight you want going each way instead of wading through the dozens of flight combos that you would have to go through if you are booking on another airline.
I book on google flights. It's will give me the cheapest rt based on times I select. Well everyone besides southwest.
And I don't know how it makes sense. I asked the buddy what his flight to Vegas was and he says $xx. Well the flight there was one amount and the flight back is a different price. I don't understand why a one way flight is less confusing when you only care about the total cost.
And it confuses me more than once cause anyone I ask that doesn't fly swa seem to think in rt and it throws me off everytime the swa guy said how much he paid.
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I've flown SWA plenty and still find it annoying. The little jokes and 'playfulness' of their employees are not enjoyable for me. I realize a lot of people are into that. I'm not. STFU unless you're axing me for my beverage selection.
I will give them credit for the refund/change flight deal. A few weeks ago I utilized it to make a late change (early morning of 3pm flight, moved it to a 830am flight).
vs. Spirit: (a) SWA's seats seem to have just a bit more leg room. Still uncomfortable as sin, but probably more leg room; (b) if you have more than a backpack, pricing can become an issue with Spirit.
Generally, I'll take Spirit (paying extra to select seat in advance) over SWA if I'm travelling light. I simply get annoyed with the happy-face crap SWA does. Even their ticker symbol is upsetting.
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Years ago travelling on bidness on Midwest Express... I think it was a Sunday night.. they were really letting the wine flow.. my seatmate was a lady in her 50's.. and after about 6 glasses of wine was getting very talkative to everyone around us... standing up, holding court with the plane.. eventually as we were starting our descent, she grabbed the big phone out of the chair in front of us (they had big ass phones in the headrest you could use, IIRC).. and called the person who was picking her up from the airport... she was SCREAMING... "I can barely hear you!! Hey! I'm almost there!! Why can't I HEAR YOU?!?!?!?"...
Then another passenger pointed out to her that she was holding the phone the wrong way.. had the speaker not to her ear, but to the outside... we all laughed and took another swig of wine.
Anyway, this afternoon I'm off to a rap concert with 35,000 people. It'll make flying SWA seem like floating in heaven.
Did ya get any too, hey?
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Do you still have to wait in line to get a good seat? I usually travel with a small travel bag to squeeze under the seat so I've never been in a hurry to get on a plane. And 15 per ticket seems a little excessive. That's sixty bucks rt for a couple. I don't love my wife enough to have to sit next to her on a plane when I'm just reading or watching something on a tablet.
early bird is $12.50 per ticket. then you don't have to log in/check-in at the 24 hour bell. your number is pre-registered when you book the flight. your seat is automatically given to you in the order you bought your ticket. i get this all the time. if i don't like my A number, i will ask them how many of the #'s 1-15 have been sold(extra $40) for longer flights, i jump on this if i can get under #5 so i am guaranteed the emergency exit seat without the seat in front of you
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I have flown 9 out of 13 in last year, and I would agree with this order. JetBlue wasn't one that I have flown, but friends and family swear by it.
"This is the worst complaints have been for 15 years, as a rate. The last time it got this high was in 2001..."
Overall airline ranking, with 2014 rankings in parentheses
1. Virgin America (1)
2. JetBlue (4)
3. Delta (3)
4. Hawaiian (2)
5. Alaska (5)
6. Southwest (6)
7. SkyWest (10)
8. United (9)
9. ExpressJet (11)
10. American (7)
11. Frontier (8)
12. Envoy Air (12)
13. Spirit (new to rating in 2015)
http://www.cnn.com/2016/04/04/aviation/airline-quality-rating-united-states-carriers/
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early bird is $12.50 per ticket. then you don't have to log in/check-in at the 24 hour bell. your number is pre-registered when you book the flight. your seat is automatically given to you in the order you bought your ticket. i get this all the time. if i don't like my A number, i will ask them how many of the #'s 1-15 have been sold(extra $40) for longer flights, i jump on this if i can get under #5 so i am guaranteed the emergency exit seat without the seat in front of you
EB now up ta $15.
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EB now up ta $15.
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One thing I have noticed is that when you talk price with swa guys, they are always talking about 1-way. Always confuses me when they say a price and I can't believe how cheap the flight to (insert city) is compared to what I was looking at for other airlines. I got to the site and realize they meant one way.
I think that's all about how you book SWA flights on the website. Even if booking a RT, you pick each leg at it's individual price. So we're used to thinking about it each way. In fact that's another benefit. One way does not have any upcharge associated. Same would be true for a three legged (eg. MDW-LAS-MKE).
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And I think most other airlines have followed suit. I have flown one way on other carriers at about half of the round trip.
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I think that's all about how you book SWA flights on the website. Even if booking a RT, you pick each leg at it's individual price. So we're used to thinking about it each way. In fact that's another benefit. One way does not have any upcharge associated. Same would be true for a three legged (eg. MDW-LAS-MKE).
When you book on Google you select each ticket individually. You can also do multi city. Swa is the only airline that won't allow Google to book flights. How is that a benefit?
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I know it's starting to gain momentum, and it's much more difficult than Uber/Airbnb, but it'll be interesting to see if these little start ups flying 6-8 passengers out of small regional airports will become more popular. I know there's some LA-San Fran flights that have gained popularity (no TSA, show up and take off, leg room, food/drink options).
Sounds like a great idea, and I'd certainly be willing to pay a premium if they do it right. My two concerns would be the experience level of the pilots, and whether they have to abide by the same maintenance standards as the major carriers. Premium service loses its appeal if you're significantly more likely to end up dead.
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looking at flights on swa right now for october-holy schnikees! then i googled some round trips mke-las and between priceline and kayak, etc., i can get a nonstop round trip($140ish) for less than a one way($185-300 something) on swa. they are my go to airline, but who do they think they are? emirates air?
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I bought a round trip to London even though I only needed a one way because the round trip was $800 cheaper. Are they gonna hunt me down if I don't use the return ticket?
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looking at flights on swa right now for october-holy schnikees! then i googled some round trips mke-las and between priceline and kayak, etc., i can get a nonstop round trip($140ish) for less than a one way($185-300 something) on swa. they are my go to airline, but who do they think they are? emirates air?
Don't book on Saturday or sunday night. Prices will be cheaper on Tuesday.
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Don't book on Saturday or sunday night. Prices will be cheaper on Tuesday.
i usually don't. thursdays into vegas are bad also, but i have a CE class on a friday and i don't want to take off anymore work than i have to prior to the class as i'm spending the following 10 days in havasu. so if i fly in on a wednesday to save $50 or so on the flight, even if i'm comped for the hotel, figure a couple of meals and gambling losses...and i'm bringing my associate who needs to get back to the office by monday...to make me some money while i'm golfing and atv'ing in the mountains ::)
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early bird is $12.50 per ticket. i get this all the time.
More lies!
How are you getting the $2.50 discount "all the time"??
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I bought a round trip to London even though I only needed a one way because the round trip was $800 cheaper. Are they gonna hunt me down if I don't use the return ticket?
You should be fine.
I believe the only time you get in trouble is if you book a round trip to go further than you want, and get off along the way (book MKE-DEN-LAX, then LAX-DEN-MKE, but get off in DEN on the outbound). If you try to get back for the return in DEN, you will find that most airlines will have canceled the return trip when you "missed" the second leg of the outbound.
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When you book on Google you select each ticket individually. You can also do multi city. Swa is the only airline that won't allow Google to book flights. How is that a benefit?
Doesn't this change the subject? It was asked why SWA folks speak about prices on a one way basis. I explained that. I suppose it's their choice that SWA tickets are only available through their own website. It's not like anyone doesn't know that.
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looking at flights on swa right now for october-holy schnikees! then i googled some round trips mke-las and between priceline and kayak, etc., i can get a nonstop round trip($140ish) for less than a one way($185-300 something) on swa. they are my go to airline, but who do they think they are? emirates air?
For sure. I'd anticipate a sale soon. I have some September SWA tix I got for as low as $64 a few weeks back.
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Just flew Spirit on a Vegas rounder from ORD.
No problems, FAs were nice and polite. $7 for a double crown and ginger.
Select better seats for the small upcharge, we did the Big Seats on the way home since it was a late Sunday night flight, it was fantastic and still much cheaper than any other airline.
I had 4 different changes of clothes, sandals and a pair of loafers in a backpack as the personal item.
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I had sandals and a pair of loafers
nh?
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Don't book on Saturday or sunday night. Prices will be cheaper on Tuesday.
It don't matter for SWA from dis one horse town. Prices are a function of supply and demand, ai na?
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It don't matter for SWA from dis one horse town. Prices are a function of supply and demand, ai na?
No doubt. Folks in smaller towns certainly pay up for airline tix. I do recall when SWA first came to MKE. Wow were they cheap as they built market share. We would drive up from Chicago to take advantage along with the $5 parking.
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What happened to Midwest as well as the legacy carriers is simple. The public would sell their own mothers for a low airfare. The public has been conditioned to accept crappy service in return for low fares.
But .. while I get jamming as many people in to planes as possible .. I don't get the cutbacks in service, food, etc. -- Or rather, why there isn't a Midwest Express sector.
What do warm cookies cost in bulk? Maybe 20 cents? How about wine? Buy the wine in gallons and maybe that's 50 cents a cup. Decent food, wifi .. what are we talking, $10 in cost? The costs of that stuff is figuratively peanuts.
If your choice was SW's cattle car for $179, or Midwest Express' premium service at $189 aren't you dropping the extra Hamilton for some cookies and wine and the perception you're travelling a better class?
Isn't there a price curve where the premium airline, giving up wifi and baggage revenue, will be so full they beat the cattle car airlines in seats sold/revenue?
Why can't there be an Apple iAirline, where people overpay for prestige and minuscule service benefits?
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But .. while I get jamming as many people in to planes as possible .. I don't get the cutbacks in service, food, etc. -- Or rather, why there isn't a Midwest Express sector.
What do warm cookies cost in bulk? Maybe 20 cents? How about wine? Buy the wine in gallons and maybe that's 50 cents a cup. Decent food, wifi .. what are we talking, $10 in cost? The costs of that stuff is figuratively peanuts.
If your choice was SW's cattle car for $179, or Midwest Express' premium service at $189 aren't you dropping the extra Hamilton for some cookies and wine and the perception you're travelling a better class?
Isn't there a price curve where the premium airline, giving up wifi and baggage revenue, will be so full they beat the cattle car airlines in seats sold/revenue?
Why can't there be an Apple iAirline, where people overpay for prestige and minuscule service benefits?
I've been waiting for it, but those airlines have failed. Is suspect it is because when you people use Kayak or Expedia or fill in the blank service, 95% of the time they select the lowest fare each and every time, thus that mere $10 increment fare doesn't get selected.
Too many of the traveling public today have no clue what it used to be like to fly, either. My God, I remember you got dressed up to fly, it was an experience. Now, it's taking the bus....and the fare price is all that matters.
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Not sure ya can insult bus riders like that these daze, hey?
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Not sure ya can insult bus riders like that these daze, hey?
You are probably right.
I've taken the bus plenty of times myself, or the rail.....my point is that what used to be an experience, a higher end experience, has been commoditized so much that it has turned into an awful experience unless you are willing to spend a lot of money for the first 8 rows.
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I've been waiting for it, but those airlines have failed. Is suspect it is because when you people use Kayak or Expedia or fill in the blank service, 95% of the time they select the lowest fare each and every time, thus that mere $10 increment fare doesn't get selected.
Too many of the traveling public today have no clue what it used to be like to fly, either. My God, I remember you got dressed up to fly, it was an experience. Now, it's taking the bus....and the fare price is all that matters.
True. But back then airline fares were regulated and next to no one could actually afford to fly. Midwest did try to provide that premium service and I liked their product a lot. But the reality is that the consumer airline business even for the business traveler is about getting from point A to point B as efficiently as possible. Midwest simply had no real chance to compete with their small fleet and limited coverage.
My regular route (MDW-LAS) is 3.5 hours airtime westbound. My chosen carrier does that probably 10 times N/S daily and usually (if you work at it) at a good price. Every moment from the time I lock my door until I unlock my other door is simply a chore that must be undertaken.
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True. But back then airline fares were regulated and next to no one could actually afford to fly. Midwest did try to provide that premium service and I liked their product a lot. But the reality is that the consumer airline business even for the business traveler is about getting from point A to point B as efficiently as possible. Midwest simply had no real chance to compete with their small fleet and limited coverage.
My regular route (MDW-LAS) is 3.5 hours airtime westbound. My chosen carrier does that probably 10 times N/S daily and usually (if you work at it) at a good price. Every moment from the time I lock my door until I unlock my other door is simply a chore that must be undertaken.
I'm actually talking post regulation. Don't get me wrong, I remember the pre regulation days and how difficult it was for affordable airfares. Then we had this period of a mixed time where there was higher end fares for a better experience, and cheap fares no frills. That existed for quite some time. Unfortunately the race to the bottom, no frills has won the day. The market has spoken.
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.. Sorry, even though search engines are going to sort by price .. I fail to see how an airline can't succeed with a premium brand and loyalty.
Otherwise, Spirit airlines would be destroying everyone.
Keep the price bump reasonable and they'd do fine. All those "frills" are just not that costly.
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But .. while I get jamming as many people in to planes as possible .. I don't get the cutbacks in service, food, etc. -- Or rather, why there isn't a Midwest Express sector.
What do warm cookies cost in bulk? Maybe 20 cents? How about wine? Buy the wine in gallons and maybe that's 50 cents a cup. Decent food, wifi .. what are we talking, $10 in cost? The costs of that stuff is figuratively peanuts.
If your choice was SW's cattle car for $179, or Midwest Express' premium service at $189 aren't you dropping the extra Hamilton for some cookies and wine and the perception you're travelling a better class?
Isn't there a price curve where the premium airline, giving up wifi and baggage revenue, will be so full they beat the cattle car airlines in seats sold/revenue?
Why can't there be an Apple iAirline, where people overpay for prestige and minuscule service benefits?
This +Infinity.
I think the reason it hasn't happened is Joe/Jane Business Traveler would LOVE this option, however, no one's corporate travel booking agency would allow them to pick this. I get dinged at my work every time I pick United, but Spirit has a stop over on my route and is $65 cheaper. The market is screaming for the option you described, I would never be able to have my employer allow me to pay a 10-15% premium for it though. Sucks, because I 100% agree that I'd fly that option in a heartbeat.
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More lies!
How are you getting the $2.50 discount "all the time"??
easy jb, i'm not purposely putting it out there-sooorrreeeeee!! ya don't have to hard arse me over something so trivial. and we thought the "other" board was tough? the last time i flew(march, but purchased tix in december, it was $12.50. i stood corrected on the wifi and lumped it in with the free tv, music etc-oops! i'm getting ready to book some flights as we speak so i promise not to make any more mistakes. swa has worked out really FOR ME, so far. if i find that other avenues save me money and maintain the conveniences i have had with swa, i'm going with them. it's the beauty of living in a free society
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Thinking about all the airlines I have flown over the years that are gone now
Pan Am
TWA
Eastern
Western
PSA
Air Cal
Laker
Midwest Express \ Midwest Airlines
AirTran
Aloha
America West
ATA
Braniff
Continental
Golden West
Midway
Northwest
Ozark
People Express
Piedmont
Reno Air
Ted
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North Central
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North Central
Those fabulous ducks on the tail.
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Trans American
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Chico's would never be involved with Trans-American.
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Chico's would never be involved with Trans-American.
I listed ATA
American Trans Air...I took it more than a few times....the bathrooms only allowed one person at a time, which was wise.
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I listed ATA
American Trans Air...I took it more than a few times....the bathrooms only allowed one person at a time, which was wise.
whaaaaaat? just another challenge fer the mile high'ers
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North Central
I miss Herman the Duck.
We used to call him Ruptured Duck, but the fact was that the Duck flew into more crappy weather than any other airline in history.
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But .. while I get jamming as many people in to planes as possible .. I don't get the cutbacks in service, food, etc. -- Or rather, why there isn't a Midwest Express sector.
What do warm cookies cost in bulk? Maybe 20 cents? How about wine? Buy the wine in gallons and maybe that's 50 cents a cup. Decent food, wifi .. what are we talking, $10 in cost? The costs of that stuff is figuratively peanuts.
If your choice was SW's cattle car for $179, or Midwest Express' premium service at $189 aren't you dropping the extra Hamilton for some cookies and wine and the perception you're travelling a better class?
Isn't there a price curve where the premium airline, giving up wifi and baggage revenue, will be so full they beat the cattle car airlines in seats sold/revenue?
Why can't there be an Apple iAirline, where people overpay for prestige and minuscule service benefits?
The answer is simple. If it were a matter of providing food service to you alone, OK. But multiply the food service by 44,000 passengers a day at ORD and similar amounts at ATL, LAX, IAH, DFW etc.... Plus all the safe food handling requirements, preparation, storage, spoilage and inspection to ensure that someone did not slip a bomb into a food cart. That isn't cheap.
Now add in airline executives who the only thing they know how to do is cut costs (are you listening Jeff Smisek, aka Commander Jeff) and a public that would sell their mothers for five percent off and you end up with what we have today. Coach sets that were built for anorexic midgets, food for sale that would have embarrassed Saga back in the 1970s and baggage fees that encourage people to carry on steamer trunks to avoid paying a $25.00 checked bag fee. Oh, and don't forget that your food and beverage is served by someone who probably has taken a 50% wage cut in the last 10 years and can marginally make it on her salary.
Airlines once were classy. I flew a lot in the 1970s, before the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 and it was glorious, especially when I had the fortune of meeting my Dad at ORD for the final leg home. When I am dressed in a suit for work, it still can be as most airline terminals staff and flight attendants will fuss over you. But for the average Jane and Joe, it's awful.
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The answer is simple. If it were a matter of providing food service to you alone, OK. But multiply the food service by 44,000 passengers a day at ORD and similar amounts at ATL, LAX, IAH, DFW etc.... Plus all the safe food handling requirements, preparation, storage, spoilage and inspection to ensure that someone did not slip a bomb into a food cart. That isn't cheap.
Now add in airline executives who the only thing they know how to do is cut costs (are you listening Jeff Smisek, aka Commander Jeff) and a public that would sell their mothers for five percent off and you end up with what we have today. Coach sets that were built for anorexic midgets, food for sale that would have embarrassed Saga back in the 1970s and baggage fees that encourage people to carry on steamer trunks to avoid paying a $25.00 checked bag fee. Oh, and don't forget that your food and beverage is served by someone who probably has taken a 50% wage cut in the last 10 years and can marginally make it on her salary.
Airlines once were classy. I flew a lot in the 1970s, before the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 and it was glorious, especially when I had the fortune of meeting my Dad at ORD for the final leg home. When I am dressed in a suit for work, it still can be as most airline terminals staff and flight attendants will fuss over you. But for the average Jane and Joe, it's awful.
Amen....stated very well.
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The answer is simple. If it were a matter of providing food service to you alone, OK. But multiply the food service by 44,000 passengers a day at ORD and similar amounts at ATL, LAX, IAH, DFW etc.... Plus all the safe food handling requirements, preparation, storage, spoilage and inspection to ensure that someone did not slip a bomb into a food cart. That isn't cheap.
Now add in airline executives who the only thing they know how to do is cut costs (are you listening Jeff Smisek, aka Commander Jeff) and a public that would sell their mothers for five percent off and you end up with what we have today. Coach sets that were built for anorexic midgets, food for sale that would have embarrassed Saga back in the 1970s and baggage fees that encourage people to carry on steamer trunks to avoid paying a $25.00 checked bag fee. Oh, and don't forget that your food and beverage is served by someone who probably has taken a 50% wage cut in the last 10 years and can marginally make it on her salary.
Airlines once were classy. I flew a lot in the 1970s, before the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 and it was glorious, especially when I had the fortune of meeting my Dad at ORD for the final leg home. When I am dressed in a suit for work, it still can be as most airline terminals staff and flight attendants will fuss over you. But for the average Jane and Joe, it's awful.
Me sorry, me can now afford ticket on flying metal tube. Me so sad, you feel sad cuz you have to sit next me.
(http://www.mskenny.com/uploads/1/2/7/4/12741188/5888854_orig.jpg)
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The answer is simple. If it were a matter of providing food service to you alone, OK. But multiply the food service by 44,000 passengers a day at ORD and similar amounts at ATL, LAX, IAH, DFW etc.... Plus all the safe food handling requirements, preparation, storage, spoilage and inspection to ensure that someone did not slip a bomb into a food cart. That isn't cheap.
Now add in airline executives who the only thing they know how to do is cut costs (are you listening Jeff Smisek, aka Commander Jeff) and a public that would sell their mothers for five percent off and you end up with what we have today. Coach sets that were built for anorexic midgets, food for sale that would have embarrassed Saga back in the 1970s and baggage fees that encourage people to carry on steamer trunks to avoid paying a $25.00 checked bag fee. Oh, and don't forget that your food and beverage is served by someone who probably has taken a 50% wage cut in the last 10 years and can marginally make it on her salary.
Airlines once were classy. I flew a lot in the 1970s, before the Airline Deregulation Act of 1978 and it was glorious, especially when I had the fortune of meeting my Dad at ORD for the final leg home. When I am dressed in a suit for work, it still can be as most airline terminals staff and flight attendants will fuss over you. But for the average Jane and Joe, it's awful.
You do understand that they provided that service precisely because they WERE regulated. Airlines had no ability to compete on price so turned to alternatives. And nobody except the wealthy and business travelers ever flew. As always, the free market gives folks what they want. What they want by the many millions is cheap, efficient and safe transportation from Point A to distant Point B. That is the essence of the commercial air business, yes?
Now if someone wants to provide upscale service, no one is stopping them. But the problem is that demand is so low for that product that the infrastructure required to launch it is prohibitive. You simply can't build a reasonable coverage model that way. Midwest Express tried and ultimately failed. 9/11 might have contributed to it's demise too. Actually, if you think about it, that service does exist at the extreme. They're called private jets.
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Me sorry, me can now afford ticket on flying metal tube. Me so sad, you feel sad cuz you have to sit next me.
(http://www.mskenny.com/uploads/1/2/7/4/12741188/5888854_orig.jpg)
Sorry dude, you got this one wrong. What I have problems with is crappy service that treats people like cattle and strips away the human dignity we all have. I don't care who I sit next to and trust me, as a Million Mile Flyer on United, I've sat next to just about everybody. I only complain when someone's child practices field goal kicking into the back of my seat!
One of the things I abhor is the lack of legroom and seat space on most airlines. The problem is comfort, I'll admit, but I also look at the bogus studies that suggest you can evacuate the coach section of a 777-200, 757-300 or any of the 737 variants in 90 seconds or less. That's the regulation and if an airline can do that with real people (not highly trained and taught airline employees), I'd be shocked. Oh, and by the way, deep vein thrombosis is not imaginary either.
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I noticed that the people that are complaining loudest appear to do the vast majority of their air travel on their company's nickel. One of the issues is that for domestic travel, you normally have the choice of either a coach seat or a first class seat that normally costs a multiple of the coach fare. Most companies are going to allow their employees to take first class unless it is a high-level executive (and sometimes, not even then).
I am kind of surprised that one of the legacies doesn't make a sincere effort to have a comfortable business class that has a reasonable upcharge from coach (say, 25 - 50% more). I would hope that at least some companies would let their folks fly that class - after all, most of them don't force people to stay at the Motel 6 when they have business travel. But at the moment the only alternative is the airplane version of the Four Seasons. Why couldn't there be a Hilton Garden/Embassy Suites level section?
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Dat woulda been Air Tran.
BTW, I've seen enough butt cracks, sat next ta enough gross, smelly folks, and inhaled enough KFC and pizza fumes on deez cattle cars ta consider drivin' any reasonable distance, hey?
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Southwest sucks. Everytime I've flown SWA I am stuck next to the most obnoxious people on the planet. The experience of flying is largely the people you are stuck next to for hours.
Of the airlines I've actually flown in the past 10 years....
Lufthansa > Aer Lingus > Virgin Atlantic > Virgin America > Alaska > Delta > American > United > Southwest
Unfortunately for work I travel United, which is the 2nd-worst circle of hell.
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I noticed that the people that are complaining loudest appear to do the vast majority of their air travel on their company's nickel. One of the issues is that for domestic travel, you normally have the choice of either a coach seat or a first class seat that normally costs a multiple of the coach fare. Most companies are going to allow their employees to take first class unless it is a high-level executive (and sometimes, not even then).
I am kind of surprised that one of the legacies doesn't make a sincere effort to have a comfortable business class that has a reasonable upcharge from coach (say, 25 - 50% more). I would hope that at least some companies would let their folks fly that class - after all, most of them don't force people to stay at the Motel 6 when they have business travel. But at the moment the only alternative is the airplane version of the Four Seasons. Why couldn't there be a Hilton Garden/Embassy Suites level section?
Legacy intercontinental flight already has 3 classes (coach, business, and first).
I think that's what they've tried to do domestically with "Economy Plus," which is just basically economy class plus more leg room, but the differentiation isn't enough.
I think the biggest barrier is that there not a market to support this. Most companies only pay their employees to fly coach on domestic flights. I don't think any company would be able to justify spending another 25%-50% for a domestic flight. Most intercontinental flights you will get business class covered by your employer.
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Sorry dude, you got this one wrong. What I have problems with is crappy service that treats people like cattle and strips away the human dignity we all have. I don't care who I sit next to and trust me, as a Million Mile Flyer on United, I've sat next to just about everybody. I only complain when someone's child practices field goal kicking into the back of my seat!
One of the things I abhor is the lack of legroom and seat space on most airlines. The problem is comfort, I'll admit, but I also look at the bogus studies that suggest you can evacuate the coach section of a 777-200, 757-300 or any of the 737 variants in 90 seconds or less. That's the regulation and if an airline can do that with real people (not highly trained and taught airline employees), I'd be shocked. Oh, and by the way, deep vein thrombosis is not imaginary either.
My uncle won a bid to go to Seattle to sit on the last plane taken by Continental with their livery. I don't know how many miles he had with Continental, but crazy number. He has some very choice words about Jeff Smisek as well as you did.
Definitely a face to the bottom, but that the market has spoken.
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Legacy intercontinental flight already has 3 classes (coach, business, and first).
I think that's what they've tried to do domestically with "Economy Plus," which is just basically economy class plus more leg room, but the differentiation isn't enough.
I think the biggest barrier is that there not a market to support this. Most companies only pay their employees to fly coach on domestic flights. I don't think any company would be able to justify spending another 25%-50% for a domestic flight. Most intercontinental flights you will get business class covered by your employer.
Has anyone actually studied it? Why is a company willing to spend and extra $300/week to put an employee in a mid-range hotel instead of the Red Roof? Would that same company be willing to spend an extra $100-$200 so that they could have a more pleasant flight? Maybe so. I am not sure anyone has given them the option on a wide scale.
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http://devour.com/video/why-flying-is-so-expensive/
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http://devour.com/video/why-flying-is-so-expensive/
Counter point.
http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2013/02/how-airline-ticket-prices-fell-50-in-30-years-and-why-nobody-noticed/273506/
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Sorry dude, you got this one wrong. What I have problems with is crappy service that treats people like cattle and strips away the human dignity we all have. I don't care who I sit next to and trust me, as a Million Mile Flyer on United, I've sat next to just about everybody. I only complain when someone's child practices field goal kicking into the back of my seat!
One of the things I abhor is the lack of legroom and seat space on most airlines. The problem is comfort, I'll admit, but I also look at the bogus studies that suggest you can evacuate the coach section of a 777-200, 757-300 or any of the 737 variants in 90 seconds or less. That's the regulation and if an airline can do that with real people (not highly trained and taught airline employees), I'd be shocked. Oh, and by the way, deep vein thrombosis is not imaginary either.
Mea culpa. I did take another way of something becoming affordable for the masses, then all of sudden those who could always afford it feeling slighted or jilted.
Cheers
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http://devour.com/video/why-flying-is-so-expensive/
Pretty good analysis. I think they missed a few, but the general point is there.
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Has anyone actually studied it? Why is a company willing to spend and extra $300/week to put an employee in a mid-range hotel instead of the Red Roof? Would that same company be willing to spend an extra $100-$200 so that they could have a more pleasant flight? Maybe so. I am not sure anyone has given them the option on a wide scale.
I imagine it has been studied, since airlines are always tweaking their cost structure (for example, the always changing fee structure), but I can't say for certain. What I can say is that my company (Fortune 500) would never support anything more than coach for a domestic fare. They don't even cover economy plus. I usually cover the "upgrade" on my own dime.
As for hotels, we have preferred pricing with Hilton brands, but you best book a Hampton Inn if it is available. Most corporations don't just spring for the nicest hotels anymore.
Corporate travel is not as glitzy as it used to be. Cost cutting measures from the recession have not been rescinded.
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My biggest issue with air travel is my fellow customer. I find them undignified, disrespectful, obnoxious, arrogant, and uncouth during every step of the process from unloading their bags at the curb, through the ticket kiosk elbowing, then their clueless happenings at security, especially the assholic approach they take to navigating the concourse, and finally to the blatant disregard of the gate agent's clear instructions for boarding.
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I'm not suggesting a Midwest Express experience, with food served on china.
Keep it simple and cheap.
First .. does great service cost that much?
There's a Taco Bell I hit a couple times a month. It's very clear the drive-thru people are trained to be happy and pleasant -- it's shocking, really. They are trained to greet you and ask you how you are. If there's a wait, they chit chat with you. My guess is that the owner hires them and says: This is the job. If you can't be pleasant and cheerful, you will be let go. -- Somehow, it works and frankly it's odd and disarming at the same time.
Second .. do cheap things to trick people into thinking you are premium. Cayman Air gives out free rum punch. It costs them like $25 a flight for a few gallons of that, and it buys them thousands in good PR. Be the free wi-fi or hot towel airliner. Minimal cost per flight, huge PR benefit.
Bump your ticket price by $15 to pay for them, and ok, yeah, you're going to lose some business travelers who are forced to Spirit because it's cheaper. Meanwhile, your planes are full because people are good with an extra $15-20 thinking they are getting a premium experience over Spirit's sh1ttiness.
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My biggest issue with air travel is my fellow customer. I find them undignified, disrespectful, obnoxious, arrogant, and uncouth during every step of the process from unloading their bags at the curb, through the ticket kiosk elbowing, then their clueless happenings at security, especially the assholic approach they take to navigating the concourse, and finally to the blatant disregard of the gate agent's clear instructions for boarding.
Nothing worse than arriving to your gate 45 min before a flight and the mouthbreathers have already lined up 15 min before boarding starts, and usually 20-25 min before their boarding section would begin.
If anyone on here doesn't have precheck and flies more than once a year, I dont even know what to say. Its inexpensive and is the best change to traveling that Ive had. I flew on a Thursday afternoon/early evening 2 weeks ago, in the midst of Ohare sending out warnings about 2 hour travel lines and walked into a crowded terminal. I went from uber to my gate in less than 15 min, and that was terminal C at ORD, so I even had to take the walkway to the farther gates.
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Pan Am
TWA
"Although we may run out of Pan Am coffee, we will never run out of TWA tea."
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Having flown occasionally for work since 2002, I first earned status in 2012 and have had gold status with American for 3 of the past 4 years, and I can tell everyone first hand that the experience is vastly different when you hit 25,000 miles or 30 segments. Sure, I'm not fawned over like the Platinum and Exec-Plat flyers, but it's a night and day difference dealing with the employees which - most people don't immediately realize - is actually a 100x bigger deal when you're on the ground than when you're in the air. I don't care if the FA is surly or spills a diet Sierra Mist all over me (which happened on my last flight)... it's when my phone buzzes me to tell me my flight is canceled that I want good customer service.
True story --- I've had return flights from Denver cancelled twice. This happened about four years apart, which isn't bad considering I fly to DEN about 10-12 times/year. Both times, I was at dinner at the exact same restaurant (which isn't much of a coincidence considering I eat at this place almost every time I'm in town) when the notification came. The first time, I did not have gold status but I was booked on a first-class ticket... I waited on hold for 45 minutes before a rep answered my call, at which point it took another 15 minutes to get me re-booked (on another airline); the only consolation was that I earned both AA and UAL miles for that return flight. The second time, I had gold status but was booked on a deep-discount ticket... customer service recognized my caller-ID, the computer system processed that my flight was canceled, I pressed something to acknowledge that was what I was calling about, and the call rep answered almost immediately... within five minutes, I was off the phone and was booked on a different flight home. Now maybe technology is a bit different in 2016 than it was in 2012, but if this is a coincidence, than it's one of twenty or thirty coincidences of better customer service with status.
The one year in between I didn't have status, I was fortunate enough to only have one flight issue where I was in Des Moines and had a flight cancelled... I immediately made friends with other flyers who did have status, and despite there being no more flights back to ORD until morning and no more cars available at any of the agencies, the six of us managed to drive home that evening because one of the guys had super-mega-ultra-diamond-preferred status with Hertz and after 10 minutes on the phone, we magically had a minivan that apparently didn't exist on this Earth a mere 15 minutes prior.
Few times are worse than finding out your plane is delayed, cancelled, etc. when you're 1,000+ miles from home and have a sick child, a full to-do list at work, and/or just a busy schedule... I no longer dread having flight/scheduling issues, they're merely a hiccup now, if that.
Plus it's nice to be seated away from the riff-raff. The crying baby doesn't bother me anymore... it's the petulant middle-aged, leisure flyers who act like babies who really make a flight miserable.
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Having flown occasionally for work since 2002, I first earned status in 2012 and have had gold status with American for 3 of the past 4 years, and I can tell everyone first hand that the experience is vastly different when you hit 25,000 miles or 30 segments.
Yep. It varies by airline and level of status (I was a Platinum with NWA and then Delta for about a decade), but elite status can make all the difference in the world.
The First/Biz upgrades were great, but as you stated, the perks you get when flights are cancelled or delayed are often even more important. I flew mostly via MSP and DTW, and there were many cancelled flights where I had been rebooked even before I knew the flight was cancelled. And when it was the last flight of the day, I'd usually already be booked in the Marriott while other passengers were fighting for Motel 6 vouchers.
The best experience though was when my family of four was flying to Paris for vacation when the girls were about 10 and 12. It was a full flight, but I had booked four seats together in the first row of coach. The agents had been calling people to the podium to try to rearrange passengers to get other families together. Then, I got called up. I started with "but I planed way in advance to get these seats..." when the agent handed me four new Biz class boarding passes.
As my youngest and I headed back to where my wife and other daughter were sitting, my daughter shouted "mommy, they moved us all to first class!" Priceless.
Now, I rarely travel for business, so I have returned to the world of self-loading cargo.
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Yep. A List or Super A List at SWA 'bout the same. For an airline that historically prided itself on 'everyone is the same' they have found small ways to treat loyal business customers more reasonably. Things like dedicated phone numbers, priority boarding, etc. I had gotten used to my chosen seat. Too bad I'm back to commoner status.
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I can tell everyone first hand that the experience is vastly different when you hit 25,000 miles or 30 segments.
Boy, you aren't kidding. When my wife historically flew with me, it was, "Hello Mrs. ___. How can we help you Mrs. ____? Is everything OK?" They addressed her by name and sought her out.
The reason: I'm a 1K on United and have had status on United since 1987.
When she flew alone, it was, "out of my way, Bi*ch. Line starts over there and maybe, we'll'' have time...."
There is poetic justice though. When I hit 1 million actual flight miles on United, I could designate anyone in my home to receive my status for as long as I live. My 21-year-old daughter begged me for it, as she knew what it meant. But since my wife will still be there, God willing, decades after my daughter is out on her own, my wife got it! And boy does it make a difference.
Benny, you hit the mark on this one.
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Boy, you aren't kidding. When my wife historically flew with me, it was, "Hello Mrs. ___. How can we help you Mrs. ____? Is everything OK?" They addressed her by name and sought her out.
The reason: I'm a 1K on United and have had status on United since 1987.
This goes back to my point though that, for me, flying sucks no matter what. I don't want some airline worker to check in on me.
STFU, keep sh1t moving, get me there on time.
Don't be loud and annoying (SWA), and I will pray some ahole doesn't bring fast food on the plane, forcing me to knock them out.
On a flight a few weeks ago we land.. taxi.. stop. Of course, everyone's in the usual mad rush to get up and go. As the rows are exiting, some dude (he appeared to be not from this country and carrying his clothes in a plastic Walgreens bag, but...) start cutting through the 'line' of people standing and waiting in the middle of the tiny aisle.. he got up to my row and I grabbed his effin Walgreens bag to let him know that's not how it goes down.
Cripes. People and flying are horrible.
Sitting in first class.. great, I board early and get a drink.. then I have to wait and wait, while hoards of dirty people walk past me to their seat. Yuck. It's awful.
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remember when cruises were something special? well, flying used to be almost exclusively for the "don't you know who i am" people too.
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Sounds like a great idea, and I'd certainly be willing to pay a premium if they do it right. My two concerns would be the experience level of the pilots, and whether they have to abide by the same maintenance standards as the major carriers. Premium service loses its appeal if you're significantly more likely to end up dead.
http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/11/airplane-maintenance-disturbing-truth
Probably should look more into the maintenance on those major carriers
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Sitting in first class.. great, I board early and get a drink.. then I have to wait and wait, while hoards of dirty people walk past me to their seat. Yuck. It's awful.
Never understood why anyone would want to board early. I want to be the last dude through the door. (Except on SW, of course.)
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The boarding process is one of the dumbest and most frustrating experiences in existence. I do not understand why it takes so long. Getting off the plane can be just as annoying. I always love the person who gets up to get their bag as soon as taxiing back to the gate starts. Highest risk of a plane accident is during taxiing, I feel like once every few months the pilot will slam on the breaks taxiing at ORD.
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Never understood why anyone would want to board early. I want to be the last dude through the door. (Except on SW, of course.)
Overhead space for carry on. Otherwise I agree.
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http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/11/airplane-maintenance-disturbing-truth
Probably should look more into the maintenance on those major carriers
Agreed. But if maintenance rules for small carriers are even less comprehensive....
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The boarding process is one of the dumbest and most frustrating experiences in existence. I do not understand why it takes so long.
Many years back I took a KLM flight home from the Netherlands. They boarded one row at a time, back to front, no exceptions. Most efficient boarding I have ever experienced.
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The boarding process is one of the dumbest and most frustrating experiences in existence. I do not understand why it takes so long. Getting off the plane can be just as annoying. I always love the person who gets up to get their bag as soon as taxiing back to the gate starts. Highest risk of a plane accident is during taxiing, I feel like once every few months the pilot will slam on the breaks taxiing at ORD.
Mythbusters did a piece on this several years ago. The process that CTWarrior describes was shown to be the fastest, most efficient method of any, but the explanation as to why it isn't done that way is because people pay more to sit up front, and when you pay more, there's an expectation of boarding first (or earlier). It's completely counter-intuitive because the reason people want to board early is so they don't have to wait in line on the jetway but the reason there's always a line on the jetway is because they aren't boarding back to front.
That said, with the advent of checked baggage fees, there's no way passengers would tolerate back to front boarding anymore with overhead bin space being in such high demand these days.
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Mythbusters did a piece on this several years ago. The process that CTWarrior describes was shown to be the fastest, most efficient method of any, but the explanation as to why it isn't done that way is because people pay more to sit up front, and when you pay more, there's an expectation of boarding first (or earlier). It's completely counter-intuitive because the reason people want to board early is so they don't have to wait in line on the jetway but the reason there's always a line on the jetway is because they aren't boarding back to front.
That said, with the advent of checked baggage fees, there's no way passengers would tolerate back to front boarding anymore with overhead bin space being in such high demand these days.
Even on my beloved SWA I worry more about the spot for my single carry-on bag than I do for my single carry-on butt. Damn do people abuse the rules. Crap folks carry-on is ridiculous.
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Even on my beloved SWA I worry more about the spot for my single carry-on bag than I do for my single carry-on butt. Damn do people abuse the rules. Crap folks carry-on is ridiculous.
Can't be polite about that stuff. If I see a coat or a small bag in the overhead bin, I would pull it down and say, "Whose is this? Do you mind putting it under your seat like the flight attendants instructed so I have a place for my carry-on?"
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Even on my beloved SWA I worry more about the spot for my single carry-on bag than I do for my single carry-on butt. Damn do people abuse the rules. Crap folks carry-on is ridiculous.
It gets a bit ridiculous, but I do respect the European budget carriers in a way for how they handle it. They actually use that size limit cube and people that appear to be borderline need to show that it fits. I have NEVER seen that in the US. For awhile, they would gate check anything that was a bit too big, so it was almost a sneaky trick to bring something you knew was a bit too big and play ignorant. Now its just a piece of checked luggage, so other than the fee it saves no time. But in reality, usually that a-hole puts it sideways in the overhead and takes up the space of two other bags.
I'll never forget being delayed in Atlanta cause two women threw a FIT while trying to board. Each had a large, about 4 inches too long on each side, "carry-on", a large-ish duffel, and a large purse and they were told they had to check one. Screaming about how they were allowed 2 pieces and a purse was not supposed to be a personal item. It was HORRIBLE. I have no doubt if a lazy gate agent let them on, they would have put both big items up top.
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It gets a bit ridiculous, but I do respect the European budget carriers in a way for how they handle it. They actually use that size limit cube and people that appear to be borderline need to show that it fits. I have NEVER seen that in the US. For awhile, they would gate check anything that was a bit too big, so it was almost a sneaky trick to bring something you knew was a bit too big and play ignorant. Now its just a piece of checked luggage, so other than the fee it saves no time. But in reality, usually that a-hole puts it sideways in the overhead and takes up the space of two other bags.
I'll never forget being delayed in Atlanta cause two women threw a FIT while trying to board. Each had a large, about 4 inches too long on each side, "carry-on", a large-ish duffel, and a large purse and they were told they had to check one. Screaming about how they were allowed 2 pieces and a purse was not supposed to be a personal item. It was HORRIBLE. I have no doubt if a lazy gate agent let them on, they would have put both big items up top.
My chosen business row on SWA was #3. It's where the luggage bin on a 737-700 becomes full size after the nose taper necessary for rows 1-2. My single bag fits comfortably. Anyway, I was always amused at those folks who 'liked' row 1 until they realized that the FAA required all their bags to go up and nothing was available nearby. I once had some d-bag ask the FA if a particular carry-on suitcase (MINE!) might be relocated so he could put his stuff up there. Hey a-hole, there's a middle seat with your name on it back in row 22. See ya.
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My chosen business row on SWA was #3. It's where the luggage bin on a 737-700 becomes full size after the nose taper necessary for rows 1-2. My single bag fits comfortably. Anyway, I was always amused at those folks who 'liked' row 1 until they realized that the FAA required all their bags to go up and nothing was available nearby. I once had some d-bag ask the FA if a particular carry-on suitcase (MINE!) might be relocated so he could put his stuff up there. Hey a-hole, there's a middle seat with your name on it back in row 22. See ya.
I think there should be reserved space for those seats. I always wait to get on the plane since I'm not in a rush and usually pack small so that I can fit it under the seat. Both are usually positive to the flying community. Every once in a while I get screwed and the only open space is way back so you have to let the entire plane get off before you can walk back to get it.
Also the restricted baggage is a positive for me on spirit. They have loosened their rules on enforcing oversized personal items but since overall everyone has less, it's more efficient getting on and off.
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I think there should be reserved space for those seats. I always wait to get on the plane since I'm not in a rush and usually pack small so that I can fit it under the seat. Both are usually positive to the flying community. Every once in a while I get screwed and the only open space is way back so you have to let the entire plane get off before you can walk back to get it.
Also the restricted baggage is a positive for me on spirit. They have loosened their rules on enforcing oversized personal items but since overall everyone has less, it's more efficient getting on and off.
I very much enjoy smart. experienced SWA travelers. For personal reasons, I'm a window guy. It's great to see a young college student with a tiny backpack get on as C-15 and immediately select the middle seat next to me in Row 3 slipping his/her tiny bag under the seat ahead.
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Can't be polite about that stuff. If I see a coat or a small bag in the overhead bin, I would pull it down and say, "Whose is this? Do you mind putting it under your seat like the flight attendants instructed so I have a place for my carry-on?"
I saw an incident like this a few years ago. A passenger took a relatively small backpack out of the overhead to put in his suitcase and asked who put the small backpack in the overhead instead of under the seat in front of them. Nobody answered, so the passenger called the flight attendant and said "I believe this might've been left on the plane by someone from the previous flight." The flight attendant was about to take it when the overhead hog who owned the backpack spoke up and grudgingly put it under the seat in front of him. :)
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Can't be polite about that stuff. If I see a coat or a small bag in the overhead bin, I would pull it down and say, "Whose is this? Do you mind putting it under your seat like the flight attendants instructed so I have a place for my carry-on?"
I had a related experience flying to Puerto Rico for work one time. By the time I boarded there was no space in the overhead except where the guy who laid his jacket across a space that could have fit two carry-on bags. I asked "Whose jacket is this?" No one replied, so I moved the jacket to put my carry-on bag in and the guy woke-up and went bonkers. Flight attendant told him to calm down and we need to make room for baggage.
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I had a related experience flying to Puerto Rico for work one time. By the time I boarded there was no space in the overhead except where the guy who laid his jacket across a space that could have fit two carry-on bags. I asked "Whose jacket is this?" No one replied, so I moved the jacket to put my carry-on bag in and the guy woke-up and went bonkers. Flight attendant told him to calm down and we need to make room for baggage.
Totally agree on jackets and small soft sided bags. Often in winter, I'll leave my coat in my lap until the bin is full. Very typically a couple of coats fit nice on top.
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I very much enjoy smart. experienced SWA travelers. For personal reasons, I'm a window guy. It's great to see a young college student with a tiny backpack get on as C-15 and immediately select the middle seat next to me in Row 3 slipping his/her tiny bag under the seat ahead.
If they're truly a smart and experienced SW flier, they wouldn't be C15.
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If they're truly a smart and experienced SW flier, they wouldn't be C15.
You make a good point.
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If they're truly a smart and experienced SW flier, they wouldn't be C15.
He could still be smart and experienced, but as a millennial, he might have had more important things to do 24 hours earlier, like riding a Divvy bike to a cool bar in Wicker Park for Happy Hour.
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He could still be smart and experienced, but as a millennial, he might have had more important things to do 24 hours earlier, like riding a Divvy bike to a cool bar in Wicker Park for Happy Hour.
LOL
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Never understood why anyone would want to board early. I want to be the last dude through the door. (Except on SW, of course.)
In today's world with the a-hole abusing rules and bringing everything on board with them....it's to get overhead space. That's the only reason.
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Sitting in first class.. great, I board early and get a drink.. then I have to wait and wait, while hoards of dirty people walk past me to their seat. Yuck. It's awful.
That's what is great about flying on a large enough plane where business class or first class is up front, and the door entry for all those "dirty people" board behind you....no one walking by you to knock those cute knees of yours.
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He could still be smart and experienced, but as a millennial, he might have had more important things to do 24 hours earlier, like riding a Divvy bike to a cool bar in Wicker Park for Happy Hour.
Just hoverboard, and then your hands are free to check in.