Marquette Ranked #75 in latest US News & World Report's Rankings

[goodgreatgrand]

Exactly, Triple G is correct. Without the bread, you're stuck in neutral at best and MU's endowment is pitifully low.

With an annual rate of return of 7%, Emory would make more in interest (322 M) off of their 4.6 B than MU's actual total endowment. Throw in the fact that they have 1,200 less undergrads and you're talking about a lot of resources per student. 

Wow.

[Sir Lawrence]

Gotta disagree. I've seen plenty of colleges around the country as well as well as personal experience with the college search process with my own kids and others. As a double MU grad, who loves his alma mater, Marquette is middle of the road, particularly when comparing private schools. Nothing wrong with that by any means and no one should take it personally or be offended.

I'm in the same boat:  double MU grad, love MU, seen lots of other colleges with my own kids and my sibs kids, and agree with 4ever 100%.  It's a better institution than when I attended, but there are lots of really good schools out there.  As with anything in life, however, MU is what you make of it. 

[GGGG]

Middle of the road compared to what though.

MU is middle of the road when it comes to the large, private schools around the country.  But in the grand scheme of American higher education, it is a very good school.  Honestly, to be ranked as the #75 national school in the country is a good thing.

[4everwarriors]

Compare the profile (ACT, SAT, class rank, GPA, etc.) of university's incoming classes in addition to the campus, dormitories, degrees offered, faculty, endowment, social life, cost, research, etc. MU has improved and actually maximized it's existence in Milwaukee's inner city. Urban schools have appeal for some, but a ranking of 75 is probably Marquette's summit unless we all pony up to raise the endowment which results in improved facilities and faculty.

[GGGG]

I agree with you 4ever, but the other question is, do we really *want* that for Marquette?  Schools have missions, history and tradition.  Do we want MU to be a top 10 school if it means that it doesn't serve the same populations that it always has?

[chapman]

Funding was part of the methodology, and probably a part we didn't do so well. 

However, I also noticed they give weight to high school guidance counselors' opinions.  Really?  I hope my idiot guidance counselor who tries to send everyone to Madison or whatever UW hyphen school they can get into doesn't have a say, especially when I'm pretty sure over half my graduating class that went to four year schools ended up transferring to a different one.

[goodgreatgrand]

I agree with you 4ever, but the other question is, do we really *want* that for Marquette?  Schools have missions, history and tradition.  Do we want MU to be a top 10 school if it means that it doesn't serve the same populations that it always has?

That's what an endowment is for. The Ivy League schools stopped recruiting the smartest, richest kids in the world about a decade ago. Now, they just recruit the smartest and the endowment takes care of their tuition. The Kennedy families are sending their kids to BC and BU because Harvard doesnt care who they are anymore and fame and money doesnt cut it; they would rather accept a poor kid from Estonia than John Kennedy XVI.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I agree with you 4ever, but the other question is, do we really *want* that for Marquette?  Schools have missions, history and tradition.  Do we want MU to be a top 10 school if it means that it doesn't serve the same populations that it always has?

Top 10 school? You know what that means...

[4everwarriors]

I agree with you 4ever, but the other question is, do we really *want* that for Marquette?  Schools have missions, history and tradition.  Do we want MU to be a top 10 school if it means that it doesn't serve the same populations that it always has?

Marquette is what it is. The "culture" of any school is difficult to alter.

[Ari Gold]

Funding was part of the methodology, and probably a part we didn't do so well. 

However, I also noticed they give weight to high school guidance counselors' opinions.  Really?  I hope my idiot guidance counselor who tries to send everyone to Madison or whatever UW hyphen school they can get into doesn't have a say, especially when I'm pretty sure over half my graduating class that went to four year schools ended up transferring to a different one.

Half my HS grad class went to UW-zero. another piece went to UW-Madison, because thats where you go.

To Say MU is middle of the road is a gross understatement in my opinion. I do give people a lot of crap for being suck ups to the administration but MU is still at top 100 University. Best Private school in the state and 2nd best school in the state. And we're moving up while UW is dropping. I think that's huge.

I'll agree that endowment is a huge part of an institutions success in rankings, especially at a private school that doesn't receive a whole lot of public money. We may have (or will) hit a ceiling for our rank with out a bunch more money. But to stay I attended at top 75 school in the country is a good thing.

[KipsBayEagle]

              I am not surprised to see Marquette jump this far, and to be quite honest, I wouldn't be surprised to see Marquette continuously rise up these rankings annually.  When Marquette joined the Big East, it really had two goals.
          
              The first and most obvious was to be a part of a major conference, and all the benefits that come along with it (such as money).  The second goal was exposure to the east coast.  Marquette has always been a strong academic institution, and has always carried a very solid reputation, a reputation that may even exceed its ranking.  Marquette has also always been a regional school, comprised almost exclusively of students from the upper midwest.  That demographic is changing.  Many people who had never even heard of Marquette a few years ago on the atlantic coast now know quite a bit about it.  When college counselors from the major private schools in the east coast recommend schools such as Villanova, Boston College, Rutgers, and others like these, they also now mention Marquette.  
            
                 When i was applying to schools I had to mention Marquette before they talked to me about it.  Now it has brochures and posters next to the big time east coast schools in the senior commons of my school.  The reputation of Milwaukee has also made a big difference.  I don't know why, but Milwaukee has gone through some kind of perception renaissance.  When I first left for school my friends back home thought I was going to hickville.  Now they ask me when I am going back out there and want to know if they could tag along.  People for some reason are more interested now in Milwaukee more than ever.  College kids are also craving to go to a school in a major city.  With Milwaukee's reputation for beer and alchohol, college kids are paying more attention to Marquette now than ever.  
            
               Imagine your a kid from new jersey, and you are debating between Marquette and the university of delaware.  Marquette has a major college basketball team, and a major city, milwaukke.  delaware has delaware.  east coast kids have been wanting to go the midwest for school since the dawn of time (see notre dame, ohio state, wisconsin, i am convinced wisconsin has more kids from new jersey than marquette has undergrads) It was only a matter of time before the east coast kids found out about Marquette, and as the Marquette brand expands, so will its ranking and prestige.

[GGGG]

When i was applying to schools I had to mention Marquette before they talked to me about it.  Now it has brochures and posters next to the big time east coast schools in the senior commons of my school.  The reputation of Milwaukee has also made a big difference.  I don't know why, but Milwaukee has gone through some kind of perception renaissance.              

I think Milwaukee is going through a renaissance in general.  A decade ago, people were calling it the next Detroit, but since then the population of the city itself has actually increased.  When I was back there a few weeks ago, I came away impressed with how much many of the neighborhoods have improved and how "tidy" the City is.

Yeah, the schools are a mess, and downtown has a few too many vacancies, but it seems to me that the City has turned the corner.

[Coleman]

4ever...

Middle of the road compared to what? There are over 400 national research universities in US News' Rankings (all tiers). I don't think 75 is middle of the road. Now throw in all of the liberal arts schools, small state schools, etc. and theres no way you can say MU is middle of the road.

Just think of all the Jesuit schools out there (I believe there are over 20). You can really only say that Georgetown, BC and Fordham are better, and we are just about even with SLU.

Ok, now compare us to all schools in Wisconsin. Who is better, besides UW-Madison?

You can make comparisons in a variety of pools, and really "middle of the road" holds up in very few of them. Just as someone said earlier, not being "elite" doesn't mean we are automatically "middle of the road." 

I'll concede our endowment is a weak spot. It is very very very important. I think Fr. Wild has stated this is a major area of emphasis presently and in the future. It kind of proves my point even more. If we are 75 with a crappy endowment, where will we be if we can double it within 10-15 years? Top 50 is not an unpossibility.

And when did you graduate? I'm not trying to put down the value of your degree compared to mine but Marquette has changed tremendously in the past 15 years, and especially the last 10. The updating of the library, the new law school, the new engineering facilities etc. all play a huge part in research, prestige, acceptance rates, quality of students, etc. For instance, I guarantee you the average ACT scores, GPAs and the like are much higher now than when you (and probably me) entered. It might have been middle of the road back then, but its not now.

I kind of get the sense that a lot of older alum have this nostalgia for Marquette as a decent (nothing more) school where there are tons of bars and people just party and go to basketball games and get hammered. I hate to be the bearer of bad news: the bars are gone, everyone is doing homework, applicants are getting rejected the prestige is going WAY up, people party but not nearly as much, basketball is still important but most people will be studying at home before a final rather than at the Bradley Center. I'm not saying its right or wrong, but it is what it is.

[Lennys Tap]

That's what an endowment is for. The Ivy League schools stopped recruiting the smartest, richest kids in the world about a decade ago. Now, they just recruit the smartest and the endowment takes care of their tuition. The Kennedy families are sending their kids to BC and BU because Harvard doesnt care who they are anymore and fame and money doesnt cut it; they would rather accept a poor kid from Estonia than John Kennedy XVI.

Thank goodness the days of the Ivies discriminating on behalf of the priviledged are mostly over, but please don't be naive enough to say they now only recruit (admit) the smartest. The average SAT scores of Harvard freshman is as follows: Blacks 1150, Hispanic 1240, Caucasion 1440 and Asian 1550. This is because Harvard wants to "look" diverse (5-7% Black, 5-7% Hispanic, etc.). One thing wrong with this is you can still end up being an elitist institution as the daughter of the Ambassador from Trinidad and the son of an Argentinian doctor are admitted in favor of the son and daughter of a Vietnamese shopkeeper. True diversity would be a better idea, with the emphasis being on recruiting in all areas - urban, rural, rich, middle class and poor with a sliding scale on scores based on family income and quality of high school. It would result in an even greater disbursement re test scores but would result in much greater true diversity.

[HoopsMalone]

I remember my freshman year (graduated in 08) we were in the 100s (between 100-110, I recall), and then we were 90s, 80s, and I think 75 is the highest I remember.

If you started then I don't think the undergrad was in the 100s.  Maybe something like the law school, but I don't think MU has been out of the top 100 for a while.

[GGGG]

I kind of get the sense that a lot of older alum have this nostalgia for Marquette as a decent (nothing more) school where there are tons of bars and people just party and go to basketball games and get hammered. I hate to be the bearer of bad news: the bars are gone, everyone is doing homework, applicants are getting rejected the prestige is going WAY up, people party but not nearly as much, basketball is still important but most people will be studying at home before a final rather than at the Bradley Center. I'm not saying its right or wrong, but it is what it is.

MU has always been more than decent.  It just hasn't needed USN&WR and a douchebag student / young alum to validate that.

[GGGG]

And BTW, you do realize that many institutions manipulate the data to up their rankings right?  They send publications to college/university CEOs across the country right around the time the peer rankings are voted upon....they do everything possible to up applications from all sorts students to appear more "exclusive....I even know of a college in Michigan that intentionally doesn't find lost alumni because it would cause a decrease in its alumni giving rate.

MU does a number of these things.  For instance, no application fee.

My favorite personal story is when my son was looking at schools.  He had one highly ranked private school send him a bunch of information, call him, etc. even though he had no interest whatsoever in attending and likely was outside their profile anyway.  Finally, they actually sent him a pre-filled out written application.  All he had to do was sign it, and get transcripts in.  They waived the essay requirement! 

Of course, the only reason they did this was to get him to apply....reject him...and look more exclusive.

[Lennys Tap]

And BTW, you do realize that many institutions manipulate the data to up their rankings right?  They send publications to college/university CEOs across the country right around the time the peer rankings are voted upon....they do everything possible to up applications from all sorts students to appear more "exclusive....I even know of a college in Michigan that intentionally doesn't find lost alumni because it would cause a decrease in its alumni giving rate.

MU does a number of these things.  For instance, no application fee.

My favorite personal story is when my son was looking at schools.  He had one highly ranked private school send him a bunch of information, call him, etc. even though he had no interest whatsoever in attending and likely was outside their profile anyway.  Finally, they actually sent him a pre-filled out written application.  All he had to do was sign it, and get transcripts in.  They waived the essay requirement! 

Of course, the only reason they did this was to get him to apply....reject him...and look more exclusive.

Interesting story. Who would have thought they would "cook the books" like that in the hallowed halls of academia? First they price gouge (tuitions are WAY out of line) and they follow things up with a little fraud. Guess that's only looked down upon in the private sector.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm in the same boat:  double MU grad, love MU, seen lots of other colleges with my own kids and my sibs kids, and agree with 4ever 100%.  It's a better institution than when I attended, but there are lots of really good schools out there.  As with anything in life, however, MU is what you make of it.  

The problem is that you are comparing it to other schools that you have attended or your kids have gone through in the selection process (same for 4ever).   One has to think that your kids are going to very good schools or only considering very good schools.  The fact of the matter is that there are 1000's of really crap crap average schools in this country that you aren't comparing it too.  In other words, your sample pool is extremely and not representative.

I'll give you an example...the Cal State system has 20 schools.  There is ONE of the 20 that could remotely compete with Marquette.  ONE.  I'm betting most of you guys haven't even heard of 70% of the Cal State Universities.

The same is true with EVERY UW school sans Madison.  The same is true with most New York state schools (SUNY), Florida state schools, Indiana State schools, etc, etc.  

As I said, you guys really need to get out more because there are just loads of crap all over the place which is why you have US News stating we're 75th vs all the crap that is out there you guys aren't exploring.  I sincerely doubt that your kids are applying to Cal State Los Angeles, Cal State San Bernardino, Can State Stanislaus, Cal State Hayward, Cal State Channel Islands, Cal State Dominguez Hills, Indiana State, Illinois State, Western Illinois, Eastern Illinois, etc, etc, etc.   Think of the best of the best schools in some states that don't come close and then all the smaller schools in those same states that are even worse.  Hawaii.  Nebraska.  North Dakota.  South Dakota.  Montana.  Nevada.  New Mexico.  Alaska.  Idaho.  Oregon. Alabama.  Arkansas.  Arizona.  Kentucky.  Maine.  Etc, etc.  None of those states have one school ranked higher than MU and I only went through a few states.  The state of Indiana had only one...Notre Dame.  You get the idea.

You guys need to expand your pool and not limit it to only the schools you know or where your kids considered, because there are a ton that are WAY below MU, let alone MU just middle of the pack.

[Coleman]

The problem is that you are comparing it to other schools that you have attended or your kids have gone through in the selection process (same for 4ever).   One has to think that your kids are going to very good schools or only considering very good schools.  The fact of the matter is that there are 1000's of really crap crap average schools in this country that you aren't comparing it too.  In other words, your sample pool is terrible and not representative.

I'll give you an example...the Cal State system has 20 schools.  There is ONE of the 20 that could remotely compete with Marquette.  ONE.  I'm betting most of you guys haven't even heard of 70% of the Cal State Universities.

The same is true with EVERY UW school sans Madison.  The same is true with most New York state schools (SUNY), Florida state schools, Indiana State schools, etc, etc.  

As I said, you guys really need to get out more because there are just loads of crap all over the place which is why you have US News stating we're 75th vs all the crap that is out there you guys aren't exploring.  I sincerely doubt that your kids are applying to Cal State Los Angeles, Cal State San Bernardino, Can State Stanislaus, Cal State Hayward, Cal State Channel Islands, Cal State Dominguez Hills, Indiana State, Illinois State, Western Illinois, Eastern Illinois, etc, etc, etc.  

+1

[Coleman]

MU has always been more than decent.  It just hasn't needed USN&WR and a douchebag student / young alum to validate that.

Well hello there friendly.

Look, I'm not making this crap up. I have 10+ uncles and aunts who are alum who all talk about how wasted they got and how they got in with an 18 on their ACT and there's no way they could get in now. That wasn't everybody, but you're missing the point. The school has improved in the last 15 years.

And its not my position that MU was only "decent." I was just asking 4ever when he graduated...because that might have something to do with why he said MU was "middle of the road."

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well hello there friendly.

Look, I'm not making this crap up. I have 10+ uncles and aunts who are alum who all talk about how wasted they got and how they got in with an 18 on their ACT and there's no way they could get in now. That wasn't everybody, but you're missing the point. The school has improved in the last 15 years.

Look at Canadian Dimes, he proves this point daily.  Mid 1980's graduate, no chance in hell he sniffs the admissions office today.

[4everwarriors]

Vic, you make some valid points in response. As Chicos points out, some of my remarks are rooted in personal experience. Yet, I understand the business of selling a university. Select schools often have a $75-85 application fee and receive 25,000+ applications. It is a very, very large, competitive business. And, whether kids believe it at the time or not, there is more than one right fit for everyone.
Two factors play heavily in the application process from the college's perspective. First, they constantly want to enhance their profile. Profile consists of incoming freshman class GPA, ACT, SAT, class rank, etc.
Secondly, yield of acceptances is critical. Yes, schools play games also. They may entice an application from a student even though the kid doesn't fit the profile, just to reject the applicatant to increase selectivity. Similarly, an overqualified applicant will likely be rejected if the school feels they are merely a "safety" school. Again, think yield, yield, yield.
For the record, I graduated in '73 and '77. However, I am on campus weekly as a member of the adjunct faculty. Rest assured your degrees are valid and something to be proud of. Yet, while MU has taken giant steps to improve over time, in the grand scheme of academia, it is middle of the road.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well, I am glad that most folks don't consider us middle of the road, but rather in the upper quartile.  I'll take it.  I've always wondered if I should have attended UC Irvine or UC San Diego, both schools I was admitted to and ranked currently top 40 schools according to US News.

Nationally, most people have never heard of UC Irvine and they confuse UC San Diego with USD or San Diego State.  I'm happy with MU's strides and it's national reputation.

[GGGG]

Well hello there friendly.

Look, I'm not making this crap up. I have 10+ uncles and aunts who are alum who all talk about how wasted they got and how they got in with an 18 on their ACT and there's no way they could get in now. That wasn't everybody, but you're missing the point. The school has improved in the last 15 years.

I'm not arguing the fact that MU has improved...I am arguing that your attitude that older alumni "want it to stay the way it was" is wrong.