Number 34

[bilsu]

MacIllvanie was not the third best player on his team. All you have to do is look at pro careers. While not a star in the NBA Mac was in the pros for several years. Mac was more of a defensive player than an offensive player. I do not believe Miller or Key played a single minute in the pros. Tony Miller was a very good passer and had a lot of assists for two reasons. First he could not shoot and knew it, which is one of the differences between Miller and James. James can't shoot either, but that does not stop him from shooting. Second he was surrounded by players who could score. Diener was averaging close to 24 points a game as a senior before he hurt his foot. He was virtually unstopable those first few games.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

MacIllvanie was not the third best player on his team. All you have to do is look at pro careers. While not a star in the NBA Mac was in the pros for several years. Mac was more of a defensive player than an offensive player. I do not believe Miller or Key played a single minute in the pros. Tony Miller was a very good passer and had a lot of assists for two reasons. First he could not shoot and knew it, which is one of the differences between Miller and James. James can't shoot either, but that does not stop him from shooting. Second he was surrounded by players who could score. Diener was averaging close to 24 points a game as a senior before he hurt his foot. He was virtually unstopable those first few games.

This is just idiotic. You're saying that because McIlvaine has a spotty pro career due soley to his size and a ridiculous contract thrown at him because of like a 4 game stretch at the end of one season that he was a great college player? That makes zero sense.

What do pro careers have to do with how an individual did in college? Are you saying Karl Malone must have been a better college player than Christian Laettner because he had a better pro career? How about Bo Ellis? Was McIlvaine a better college player than Ellis? I believe Jim played longer in the NBA. If you insist on using that as a barometer, you'll see that Tony Smith played 9 years in the NBA. Diener will not. I loved Diener, but he was not on Smith's level.

Where in the world do you get an average of 24 ppg for Diener? Are you insane? And was far from unstoppable. DePaul found a way to stop him in Rosemont as he could barely get the ball over half court and was forcing shots left and right. He was never unstoppable -- though Smith appeared to be at times.

I believe they both should be honored, but Smith was (in my mind) clearly the better player.

[AlumKCof93]

I could be convinced that both Smith and Diener could have their jerseys retired.  Diener was such a gamer and so critical to the final four run.  MU didn't have the same success under Smith, but in my opinion, he's one of the top 5 players MU's had in the past 20 years.  His senior year was incredible.

I don't think McIllvaine deserves it.  He was a good, solid player with an incredible knack for blocking shots, but I don't think his career measures up.  I'd put Key before Mac.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

I could be convinced that both Smith and Diener could have their jerseys retired.  Diener was such a gamer and so critical to the final four run.  MU didn't have the same success under Smith, but in my opinion, he's one of the top 5 players MU's had in the past 20 years.  His senior year was incredible.

I don't think McIllvaine deserves it.  He was a good, solid player with an incredible knack for blocking shots, but I don't think his career measures up.  I'd put Key before Mac.

Agreed. Actually, other than his remarkable shot blocking, his game bore a striking resemblance to Ousmane Barro -- same loping gait, same stone hands and similar coordination. 

[tonyreeder]

None of the three.  Retire the elites.  I think they've already been stretching with Earl Tatum especially. Macilvaine is by far the least deserving.  I loved Tony Smith and he was there when I was but those teams stunk and if you were to ask a college basketball fan who Tony Smith is-- they'd say "who?"  He'd be a stretch.  Diener's a tough call and he was a very very good player but not great.    This has been beaten to death on this board before but I'd absolutely retire Tony Miller's number before Diener's. (and I don't think Tony Miller's number should be retired either).   If anyone, it should be Jim Chones.

[MR.HAYWARD]

1st team AA and graduate or no retired.

[mosarsour]

1st team AA and graduate or no retired.

...and Captain Incoherent chimes in again!

[NCMUFan]

Jim MacIlvaine had 214 starts in the NBA
Tony Smith had 87,
and Travis Diener - Zippo.

[🏀]

Jim MacIlvaine had 214 starts in the NBA
Tony Smith had 87,
and Travis Diener - Zippo.

McIlvaine (note the spelling) also was known for the following:
1.) Being a poster boy for Shaq
2.) One of the worst free-agent signings ever, in all sports
3.) The reason why the Seattle SuperSonics team broke apart while they were good.

But sure, why not retire a guys jersey at Marquette when he had such an illustrious pro career.

[77ncaachamps]

None of the three.  Retire the elites.  I think they've already been stretching with Earl Tatum especially. Macilvaine is by far the least deserving.  I loved Tony Smith and he was there when I was but those teams stunk and if you were to ask a college basketball fan who Tony Smith is-- they'd say "who?"  He'd be a stretch.  Diener's a tough call and he was a very very good player but not great.    This has been beaten to death on this board before but I'd absolutely retire Tony Miller's number before Diener's. (and I don't think Tony Miller's number should be retired either).   If anyone, it should be Jim Chones.

That sounds fine and dandy, but I'm curious as to your definition of "elite".

I agree, Miller should NOT have his number retired.

But there are many fans today who would say, "Who?" when you mention the names of Maurice Lucas, Butch Lee, Jim Chones, Don Kojis, Dean Meminger, even Chris Crawford, Jim McIlvaine, Travis Diener, and Steve Novak!

[NCMUFan]

When Shaq was in his prime, who wasn't run over by him.
I mean a free agent signing and a team breakup, how can you pin that on a player, that is primarily management.  But if you want to pull out a microscope on someone, no one can stop you.

[ChicosBailBonds]

None of the three.  Retire the elites.  I think they've already been stretching with Earl Tatum especially. Macilvaine is by far the least deserving.  I loved Tony Smith and he was there when I was but those teams stunk and if you were to ask a college basketball fan who Tony Smith is-- they'd say "who?"  He'd be a stretch.  Diener's a tough call and he was a very very good player but not great.    This has been beaten to death on this board before but I'd absolutely retire Tony Miller's number before Diener's. (and I don't think Tony Miller's number should be retired either).   If anyone, it should be Jim Chones.

It isn't about asking a college basketball fan who "Tony Smith" is, it's about asking Marquette.

There are many players around the country that have had their numbers retired that many fans outside of that area don't know who they are.

Chones is probably next.