scary article

[bigdog]

March Madness: Is public college football killing private schools' basketball?
By: Neal McCluskey
OpEd Contributor
March 18, 2010   
Georgetown's Greg Monroe, top, shoots over Marquette's Lazar Hayward during the first half of a semifinal round NCAA college basketball game at the Big East Conference Championships on Friday, March 12, 2010 in New York. (AP Photo/Frank Franklin II) (AP)
Twenty-five years ago, the Big East Conference pulled off two feats not since repeated: It put three teams in the NCAA Tournament’s Final Four, and all were private schools. Unfortunately, both the Big East, and private schools regularly contending for championships, are in danger of extinction. The reason? Football.

The Big East’s greatest year was 1985. Yes, this year the league has several top seeds, and last season it produced three number-one seeds and two Final Four teams. But none of that can compare.

In ’85, St. John’s, Georgetown and Villanova all made the Final Four, and Villanova defeated the Hoyas in perhaps the greatest upset in tourney history.

The conference has remained a hoops powerhouse since then. But it has also been in constant flux thanks to its need to compete in big-time football, by far the biggest moneymaker in college sports.

Founded in 1979, the Big East didn’t sponsor football until 1991. When it did, its overwhelmingly private complexion was drastically altered, with Virginia Tech, West Virginia, Rutgers and Temple, as well as the private University of Miami, joining primarily for football.

Meanwhile, many original members didn’t hit the gridiron at all.

With football conferences of at least 12 members able to stage cash-cow championship games, the relatively small Big East remained vulnerable to poaching. And poached it was: In 2003, the Atlantic Coast Conference grabbed Miami, Virginia Tech and Boston College.

To save its life, the Big East brought in Louisville, South Florida and Cincinnati for football and basketball, and Marquette and DePaul for hoops.

The Big East has survived, but only with eight basketball-only and eight football schools. That balances football and non-football membership, but also makes it impossible to bring in more football schools.

Meanwhile, the gridiron market hasn’t cooled off: In pursuit of conference championship dough, last year the Big Ten announced that it would explore expansion. And the Big East is in its sights. According to an assessment released two weeks ago, Rutgers is a very attractive candidate, as are Pitt and Syracuse.

So why can’t schools like Georgetown and St. John’s play Big East football and end the constant poaching? After all, Notre Dame is private and plays top-level football. Ditto Southern Cal.

A few private institutions do, indeed, play major college football. But of 120 Bowl Division schools only 17 are private. Many of those, such as Duke and Vanderbilt, are perennial doormats.

Most private institutions simply aren’t large enough to compete with the publics. Thanks to massive taxpayer subsidies, public universities are much bigger and cheaper, and can bring in far more students. That leads to many more fans and more potential sports donors.

The problem is reflected brilliantly in game attendance. In 2009, average crowd size for Southeastern Conference games was 76,288. At SEC-member Vanderbilt, it was only 35,015. In the ACC, the average draw was 51,249; at Duke, just 26,314. The Big Ten average was 71,769; but Northwestern a mere 24,190.

The upshot of all this is smaller schools have less money to hire big-name coaching staffs and build Taj Mahal athletic facilities. And private schools need donors to contribute to their whole operation – unlike publics, taxpayers don’t underwrite private schools’ academics – making it less likely that benefactors will focus on sports.

Unfortunately, football’s massive weight is smothering college basketball. In particular, the game is being dominated by “power conferences” – which except for the Big East consist overwhelmingly of public institutions – that not only play Bowl Division football, but are part of the exclusive Bowl Championship Series.

Since 1998, the year the BCS started, only three non-BCS teams have made the Final Four, and pre-Big East membership Marquette was the only private school among them. In contrast, in the 1970s and 80s, such private institutions as Jacksonville University, UPenn, and St. Bonaventure made the promised land.

If the Big 10 nabs Rutgers, Pitt or Syracuse, private-school hoops will sink even lower, with the Big East likely to crumble and ’85 contenders Georgetown, St. John’s and Villanova forced into mid-major status.

Twenty-five years after the greatest postseason ever for a college basketball conference, we could be staring at both the end of that conference, and another nail in the private-school hoops coffin.

Neal McCluskey is a higher education expert at the Cato Institute.



Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns/OpEd-Contributor/Is-public-college-football-killing-private-schools-basketball--88479987.html#ixzz0ii02GYeo

[sailwi]

The reason for all of the conference re-alignments is football and it will likely split the BE sometime in the future.  Seems the author missed an obvious final four private school since 98 in Georgetown and the author is from DC.

[muwarrior69]

The reason for all of the conference re-alignments is football and it will likely split the BE sometime in the future.  Seems the author missed an obvious final four private school since 98 in Georgetown and the author is from DC.

Georgetown was in the Big East, though not having football and a private school, a BCS team. Marquette was in CUSA when we made the final 4. 

[GGGG]

Can't disagree with much in the article.  College football drives the college sports bus...and its power is growing.

[Litehouse]

Just a thought, what if the non-football schools form their own organization.  They could even pay their players a reasonable stipend to attract top talent.  As long as the product on the court is good, the market will be there.

[Tugg Speedman]

Just a thought, what if the non-football schools form their own organization.  They could even pay their players a reasonable stipend to attract top talent.  As long as the product on the court is good, the market will be there.

Other than the private schools of the Big East, how many other schools are legit top 25 programs?  You can probably count them on one hand.

What the non-football schools can do is form one conference and that's about it.

[Litehouse]

Well, you could have the Big East teams in one conference
Villanova
Marquette
Georgetown
Notre Dame (who knows what they would do?)
Seton Hall
St. Johns
Providence
DePaul

The A10 could make up their own conference
Xavier
Richmond
Dayton
Lasalle
Duquesne
St. Louis
St. Bonaventure
Fordham
George Washington
Temple
St. Joseph's

Throw some MVC and Horizon schools together
Bradley
Creighton
Drake
Evansville
Butler
Detroit
Loyola
Valpo

The WCC could stay in-tact
Gonzaga
St. Marys
Santa Clara
Loyola Maraymount
Pepperdine
San Francisco
San Diego
Portland

Not sure what the Ivy League would do?

Maybe some Patriot League teams
American
Bucknell
Colgate
Holy Cross
Lafayette
Lehigh

Throw in some other schools that could fit in somewhere...
Boston University
Siena
George Mason
Drexel
Hartford
Charleston
Davidson
Wofford

[goodgreatgrand]

Couldnt agree more with this article.

I have no idea why some think the BE is the best it has ever been. If you have been a fan of college basketball, it clearly got worse after the CUSA expansion. The regular season is watered down. The conference tournament is watered down. It's a geographic mess. And that's not even brining up the football side of things.

Mid 80's to early 90's was it's peak, at least for basketball.

[hairy worthen]

The non football schools of the big east would still make up a pretty strong conference obviously not as stong as the current big east but still formidable. Throw in two other Catholic schools Xavier and Dayton or perhaps St Louis and/or Butler? and it would be a strong conference.

The question is how would a non football conference compete going forward. Would not having football help or hurt as far as bringing in recruits? Could the conference itself compete financially with football/basketball conferences? The individual non football schools are doing ok without football but if they were in a basketball only conference would the conference bring in the money to compete with the big conferences?  Not sure.

[cheebs09]

Also, I wonder if Villanova would decide to move their football program to D-1 if the choice is a basketball only conference or moving to one of the superconferences. I think that they would move to D-1 Football and that would be a major hit to the basketball only programs in my mind because they have been very good as of late and are one of the big name basketball only teams.

[hairy worthen]

Also, I wonder if Villanova would decide to move their football program to D-1 if the choice is a basketball only conference or moving to one of the superconferences. I think that they would move to D-1 Football and that would be a major hit to the basketball only programs in my mind because they have been very good as of late and are one of the big name basketball only teams.

Not having villanova would be a problem. Not sure why they are not D1 football now maybe they don't have the facilities or infrastructure to do it.  I don't know

[ChicosBailBonds]

Couldnt agree more with this article.

I have no idea why some think the BE is the best it has ever been. If you have been a fan of college basketball, it clearly got worse after the CUSA expansion. The regular season is watered down. The conference tournament is watered down. It's a geographic mess. And that's not even brining up the football side of things.

Mid 80's to early 90's was it's peak, at least for basketball.

Abe....is that you?  Abe?

[Tugg Speedman]

Well, you could have the Big East teams in one conference
Villanova
Marquette
Georgetown
Notre Dame (who knows what they would do?)
Seton Hall
St. Johns
Providence
DePaul

The A10 could make up their own conference
Xavier
Richmond
Dayton
Lasalle
Duquesne
St. Louis
St. Bonaventure
Fordham
George Washington
Temple
St. Joseph's

Throw some MVC and Horizon schools together
Bradley
Creighton
Drake
Evansville
Butler
Detroit
Loyola
Valpo

The WCC could stay in-tact
Gonzaga
St. Marys
Santa Clara
Loyola Maraymount
Pepperdine
San Francisco
San Diego
Portland

Not sure what the Ivy League would do?

Maybe some Patriot League teams
American
Bucknell
Colgate
Holy Cross
Lafayette
Lehigh

Throw in some other schools that could fit in somewhere...
Boston University
Siena
George Mason
Drexel
Hartford
Charleston
Davidson
Wofford

Other than the BE schools, and some of the A-10 Schools, how many of these other schools have even been ranked since the invention of color TV?

Answer Drake and Butler in the MVC, George Mason and Davidson in the other category.


So here are the schools that matter ....

Villanova
Marquette
Georgetown
Notre Dame
Seton Hall
St. Johns
Providence
DePaul
Xavier
Richmond
Dayton
Lasalle
Duquesne
St. Louis
St. Bonaventure
Fordham
George Washington
Temple
St. Joseph's
Drake
Butler
George Mason
Davidson


This is totals 23 schools.

Throw out ... Fordham, St. Bonaventure, George Washington, Lasalle, Duquesne, St. Louis, Providence

Then you're left with 16 .... one conference that could probably get a decent TV deal (remember that is the purpose of a conference).

The rest collectively couldn't get a deal deal with The Ouch if it existed.

[hairy worthen]

Abe....is that you?  Abe?

I thought abe was gumbeyandpokey. Where has his depressing ass been. Now that he dosen't post, I will have to get rid of that prozac.

[MarquetteDano]

Couldnt agree more with this article.

I have no idea why some think the BE is the best it has ever been.

Yeah, the two Final Four teams last year, the twenty wins in the NCAA tournament (five from the new C-USA teams), the four Elite Teams.  Definitely on the way down.  

Now, if you want to argue the future may be in trouble, that's one thing.  But to act like the conference is not one of the best conferences right now?

[ChicosBailBonds]

I thought abe was gumbeyandpokey. Where has his depressing ass been. Now that he dosen't post, I will have to get rid of that prozac.

I'm still wondering who the new Mr. Hayward is.....looks he they found out who he was on the IU board as they pretty much killed him over there.  He's been AWOL over here.

[Litehouse]

Other than the BE schools, and some of the A-10 Schools, how many of these other schools have even been ranked since the invention of color TV?

Answer Drake and Butler in the MVC, George Mason and Davidson in the other category.


So here are the schools that matter ....

Villanova
Marquette
Georgetown
Notre Dame
Seton Hall
St. Johns
Providence
DePaul
Xavier
Richmond
Dayton
Lasalle
Duquesne
St. Louis
St. Bonaventure
Fordham
George Washington
Temple
St. Joseph's
Drake
Butler
George Mason
Davidson


This is totals 23 schools.

Throw out ... Fordham, St. Bonaventure, George Washington, Lasalle, Duquesne, St. Louis, Providence

Then you're left with 16 .... one conference that could probably get a decent TV deal (remember that is the purpose of a conference).

The rest collectively couldn't get a deal deal with The Ouch if it existed.

I guess my point isn't that this would be a good option, it's that the football schools in the NCAA could kick the basketball-only schools out anyway and have their own tournament, and we'd be screwed anyway.  Then schools like us would have to do something to stay competitive, like pay players.  Like you said, a lot of those schools aren't that competitive right now.  But if they committed to taking it serious and possibly paying players, a lot of those schools could improve to at least be legitimate options.  If we're shut out of the top level tourney, then there's really no use for the NCAA anymore and their rules, and we would have to do whatever we could stay relevant.

[Tugg Speedman]

I guess my point isn't that this would be a good option, it's that the football schools in the NCAA could kick the basketball-only schools out anyway and have their own tournament, and we'd be screwed anyway.  Then schools like us would have to do something to stay competitive, like pay players.  Like you said, a lot of those schools aren't that competitive right now.  But if they committed to taking it serious and possibly paying players, a lot of those schools could improve to at least be legitimate options.  If we're shut out of the top level tourney, then there's really no use for the NCAA anymore and their rules, and we would have to do whatever we could stay relevant.

Where has this been discussed?  The NCAA would never ever do this.

The issue is conferences and TV revenue.  Right now this bus is being driven by football considerations.

[HoopsMalone]

So the Big East loses their BCS automatic bid in football?  The Big East is still a BCS conference right? They have to be able to find a way to make money.

[goodgreatgrand]

Yeah, the two Final Four teams last year, the twenty wins in the NCAA tournament (five from the new C-USA teams), the four Elite Teams.  Definitely on the way down.  

Now, if you want to argue the future may be in trouble, that's one thing.  But to act like the conference is not one of the best conferences right now?

Compared to the mid 80's to early 90's? No. Im not saying its not one of the best right now. However, when was it ever truly an "average" conference anyways? It has always been one of the best.

Just look at the coaches from the period I mentioned:
Calhoun
Pitino @ Providence
Boeheim
Carlesimo
the "real" John Thompson
Massimino
Carnesecca

These guys made the BE and captivated the college hoops world.

Just sayin...

[Aughnanure]

Other than the BE schools, and some of the A-10 Schools, how many of these other schools have even been ranked since the invention of color TV?

Answer Drake and Butler in the MVC, George Mason and Davidson in the other category.


So here are the schools that matter ....

Villanova
Marquette
Georgetown
Notre Dame
Seton Hall
St. Johns
Providence
DePaul
Xavier
Richmond
Dayton
Lasalle
Duquesne
St. Louis
St. Bonaventure
Fordham
George Washington
Temple
St. Joseph's
Drake
Butler
George Mason
Davidson


This is totals 23 schools.

Throw out ... Fordham, St. Bonaventure, George Washington, Lasalle, Duquesne, St. Louis, Providence

Then you're left with 16 .... one conference that could probably get a decent TV deal (remember that is the purpose of a conference).

The rest collectively couldn't get a deal deal with The Ouch if it existed.

I don't know how to go back and look at rankings over the years, and if they would only list the final rankings form the year and not throughout the year. But to put Richmond, Lasalle, Duquesne, St. Bonaventure, Fordham, George Mason, Drake, Davidson in the discussion is wrong, and especially to not even mention Creighton which has had much more consistent success and are always competitive. And why are you throwing out Providence, who has a history of being consistently competitive in the Big East while Richmond has literally only had 2 good seasons in the last 15 years in the A-10.

I think 1 conference split into three divisions of 6-8 team could be interesting, and would limit the amount of extensive travel (WCC already travels very far) by playing only a few games outside of conference . The West is obviously harder to come up with a solid nucleus, but if Temple is a possibility in the East, I don't know why UNLV and UTEP (who have their fair share of trouble in football) wouldn't be at least interested in joining just for basketball. Just a thought...

WEST
Gonzaga
St. Mary’s
Wichita St.
UNLV
UTEP
Portland or Santa Clara?
Loyola Marymount or Santa Clara?

MIDWEST
Marquette
Xavier
St. Louis
DePaul
Butler
Dayton
Creighton

EAST
Villanova
Georgetown
Temple
Seton Hall
St. John’s
Providence
St. Joe’s or GW?

[1990Warrior]

Could someone give me an example of a college football team that has improved its fortunes by changing conferences?  Also, tell me how changing conferences changed it.   What about a conference that has improved?

To me, low academic standards and recruiting geography keep the SEC and Big 12 on top.  The other teams and conferences can realign all they want.  It is not going to help them.  This begs the question - why do it?  Will it bring the schools more TV money?

[HoopsMalone]

To me, low academic standards and recruiting geography keep the SEC and Big 12 on top.  

Texas is one of the best academic schools in the country and is doing pretty well in football and men's basketball.  The academic standards in the Big 10 are the same as in the SEC and Big 12:  if you are good enough, there really are not any for you. 

Ohio and Michigan used to have a vibrant working class and growing population.  The demographics have changed.  That is a key factor in the Big Ten's relative fall from what it once was in football. 

[MarquetteDano]

Texas is one of the best academic schools in the country and is doing pretty well in football and men's basketball.  The academic standards in the Big 10 are the same as in the SEC and Big 12:  if you are good enough, there really are not any for you.  

Ohio and Michigan used to have a vibrant working class and growing population.  The demographics have changed.  That is a key factor in the Big Ten's relative fall from what it once was in football.  

Are we talking about the academic standards for athletes or the school overall?  If we are talking overall, Big Ten has much stronger academic institutions than SEC or Big Twelve.  Think of Mississippi State, Oklahoma State, LSU, Missouri... we are comparing them to any Big Ten school?

Especially in the research arena.  If you compared Nobel prizes and other major awards based on research there would be a HUGE difference between the conferences.

If we talking athletes, than yeah... Big Ten alum live in a dreamworld that somehow their athletes are better students than other schools.

[HoopsMalone]

Are we talking about the academic standards for athletes or the school overall?  If we are talking overall, Big Ten has much stronger academic institutions than SEC or Big Twelve.  Think of Mississippi State, Oklahoma State, LSU, Missouri... we are comparing them to any Big Ten school?

You are right.  The bottom schools in the Big 12 and SEC are worse than the Big Ten schools.  I was talking about athletics.  Athletes can choose to do nothing at any of these schools.  Good academics is useful in recruiting because an athlete can choose to get a lot out of his classes if he wants to.  However, athletes can slack at any school (to a reasonable degree of course) they want to and the top schools still find ways to get good players through.