Author Topic: 2010 Pre-season Poll (Read 9615 times)

nyg · « **on:** October 29, 2009, 08:39:29 AM »

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/rankings?pollId=2

Poll is out and needless to say, not one vote for MU.

Hards Alumni · « **Reply #1 on:** October 29, 2009, 08:40:07 AM »

nor should there be.

6 Big East teams

5 Big Ten teams

3 Big 12 teams

4 ACC teams

3 SEC teams

2 PAC 10 teams

1 Horizon team

1 A10 team

{Juggernaut} · « **Reply #2 on:** October 29, 2009, 08:49:16 AM »

How is Syracuse in the top 25?

Hards Alumni · « **Reply #3 on:** October 29, 2009, 08:57:10 AM »

Quote from: muhannan on October 29, 2009, 08:49:16 AM

How is Syracuse in the top 25?

coaches poll.

{Juggernaut} · « **Reply #4 on:** October 29, 2009, 09:00:01 AM »

ahhh if you look down at the bottom you see Jim Boeheim as one of the voters...
How does one become a registered voter?

dsfire · « **Reply #5 on:** October 29, 2009, 09:21:00 AM »

Is the Pac-10 really down that much this year?

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #6 on:** October 29, 2009, 10:48:18 AM »

No Marquette, no UCLA. It's been awhile since those two teams didn't appear in the pre-season top 25.

Hards Alumni · « **Reply #7 on:** October 29, 2009, 11:16:44 AM »

please see other thread.

esotericmindguy · « **Reply #8 on:** October 29, 2009, 11:24:38 AM »

The Big Ten, in the past three years, has fewer victories in the men's tournament (17-16 record) than any of the six BCS conferences. And the league has had only one team in that span get past the third round (Ohio State in 2006) -- also the fewest among the BCS leagues; the Big East, Pac-10 and Big 12 have each had four teams get past the third round.

Yet they get 5 teams in the preseason top 25....this is important because it effects RPI and will overinflate the Big Ten's strength. Therefore once they get into conference they'll likely still have 5 teams ranked because of the cupcakes and send 6 or 7 to the tourney again to get crushed.

tower912 · « **Reply #9 on:** October 29, 2009, 11:27:31 AM »

esoteric, I am no fan of the B10, but I do believe you need to check your data. Pretty sure that the Spartans made it to the finals last year where they got rolled by UNC.

chapman · « **Reply #10 on:** October 29, 2009, 11:29:40 AM »

Even Rob Jeter gets to vote.

Butler overranked as usual. Thankfully their nonconference schedule is somewhat challenging this year and they can prove their worth, though I'm sure they will still only drop a couple of spots following their 2-3 losses against terrible Horizon teams.

Big Ten is going to be tough this year. All their teams in the poll to deserve their ranking. A lot of returning talent and that's the key.

Might be tough for the Badgers this year. You have 5 teams in the top 18 while they have no votes, and sorry to say but getting 7 teams out of 11 in the tournament is a stretch, 8 will never happen. We've seen the same thing happen in the Big East, and the talk of 9 or 10 teams in the tournament never materialized once conference season hit and they beat each other up. Bottom line is if they don't prove to be better than any of the 5 teams that are currently positioned in the top 18 as well as the other unranked teams the best scenario is to squeeze in as a 12 seed again.

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #11 on:** October 29, 2009, 11:32:36 AM »

The Big Ten will be the number 1 conference this year.

mugrad99 · « **Reply #12 on:** October 29, 2009, 11:38:19 AM »

Quote from: chapman on October 29, 2009, 11:29:40 AM

Butler overranked as usual.

Could not disagree more. Everyone is back and Hayward had a dynamite summer playing on a national team. Some are saying he and Howard are future first rounders. This team has a lot of talent.

esotericmindguy · « **Reply #13 on:** October 29, 2009, 11:54:25 AM »

Quote from: tower912 on October 29, 2009, 11:27:31 AM

esoteric, I am no fan of the B10, but I do believe you need to check your data. Pretty sure that the Spartans made it to the finals last year where they got rolled by UNC.

Yeah sorry, missed them.

jmayer1 · « **Reply #14 on:** October 29, 2009, 11:59:57 AM »

Quote from: esotericmindguy on October 29, 2009, 11:24:38 AM

Yet they get 5 teams in the preseason top 25....this is important because it effects RPI and will overinflate the Big Ten's strength. Therefore once they get into conference they'll likely still have 5 teams ranked because of the cupcakes and send 6 or 7 to the tourney again to get crushed.

Rankings have no effect on RPI. The formula is quite simple:

RPI = (Winning % * .25) + (Opponents' Winning % * .50) + (Opponents' Opponents' Winning % * .25)

However, in compupting a team's winning % (not opponents' or opponenents' opponents') a home win counts as only .6 wins while an away win counts as 1.4 wins, with neutral being 1. Conversely, a home loss counts as 1.4 losses, a road loss counts as .6 losses, and a neutral court loss is 1. You will see some difference between various RPIs during the season if the sources have differences considering which games are road/home/neutral (ie-MU vs Tenn in Nashville, some consider that neutral while some say home vs road).

DJO's Pump Fake · « **Reply #15 on:** October 29, 2009, 12:23:01 PM »

Quote

The Big Ten will be the number 1 conference this year.

Haha-made ma laugh a bit

chapman · « **Reply #16 on:** October 29, 2009, 12:54:35 PM »

Quote from: indeelaw90 on October 29, 2009, 11:38:19 AM

Could not disagree more. Everyone is back and Hayward had a dynamite summer playing on a national team. Some are saying he and Howard are future first rounders. This team has a lot of talent.

They're still back from a team that lost three games in the Horizon League and barely deserved a nine seed. I'm tired of seeing them as a top 15 staple every year based on two or three decent early season wins when they drop at least as many against terrible teams. As I said, we'll see where they stand once their non-conference schedule is over. With Minnesota, Georgetown, Ohio State, Xavier, and a potential matchup with Clemson or WVU they will get a chance to earn their ranking. After all, the pollsters believe they're better than five of those six teams. I think they're better than one or two.

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #17 on:** October 29, 2009, 12:56:23 PM »

Quote from: warrior55 on October 29, 2009, 12:23:01 PM

Haha-made ma laugh a bit

Not trying to be funny, they are loaded this year.

chapman · « **Reply #18 on:** October 29, 2009, 01:03:01 PM »

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/polls/ap

AP Poll out as well. 6 Big Ten teams make this one. 5 Big East.

dsfire · « **Reply #19 on:** October 29, 2009, 01:24:13 PM »

Quote from: chapman on October 29, 2009, 12:54:35 PM

They're still back from a team that lost three games in the Horizon League and barely deserved a nine seed. I'm tired of seeing them as a top 15 staple every year based on two or three decent early season wins when they drop at least as many against terrible teams. As I said, we'll see where they stand once their non-conference schedule is over. With Minnesota, Georgetown, Ohio State, Xavier, and a potential matchup with Clemson or WVU they will get a chance to earn their ranking. After all, the pollsters believe they're better than five of those six teams. I think they're better than one or two.

They may not live up to their preseason ranking, but it's not ridiculous to put a team that was top 25 for most of last year starting 3 freshmen, a sophomore and a junior and really lost no one.

dsfire · « **Reply #20 on:** October 29, 2009, 01:35:48 PM »

Quote from: chapman on October 29, 2009, 11:29:40 AM

Might be tough for the Badgers this year. You have 5 teams in the top 18 while they have no votes, and sorry to say but getting 7 teams out of 11 in the tournament is a stretch, 8 will never happen. We've seen the same thing happen in the Big East, and the talk of 9 or 10 teams in the tournament never materialized once conference season hit and they beat each other up. Bottom line is if they don't prove to be better than any of the 5 teams that are currently positioned in the top 18 as well as the other unranked teams the best scenario is to squeeze in as a 12 seed again.

Honestly, if Providence won one or two more non-conference games last year and Georgetown or Notre Dame hadn't choked against some of the non-NCAA teams during conference play last year, the BE could've sent 9-10 teams. The middle of the conference didn't sag just because the top of the conference beat up on them, it was also failing to capitalize on opportunities when they had them.

Agree that 8 from the Big 10 would really be a stretch - they really squeezed to get 7 in last year, and most of those teams had some decent quality wins in non-conference. They could move their seeds up (and should this year) but it'd be hard to get more in, and that's considering Penn State won the NIT last year.

4everwarriors · « **Reply #21 on:** October 29, 2009, 01:40:04 PM »

Haven't checked the polls, but is IU ranked?

dsfire · « **Reply #22 on:** October 29, 2009, 01:48:48 PM »

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 29, 2009, 01:40:04 PM

Haven't checked the polls, but is IU ranked?

Looks like Big Ten media day is today, but they should be top ten in their conference.

Chili · « **Reply #23 on:** October 29, 2009, 02:10:03 PM »

Quote from: dsfire on October 29, 2009, 01:24:13 PM

They may not live up to their preseason ranking, but it's not ridiculous to put a team that was top 25 for most of last year starting 3 freshmen, a sophomore and a junior and really lost no one.

Butler is a legit top 10 team this year. They will do some damage.

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #24 on:** October 29, 2009, 02:14:29 PM »

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 29, 2009, 01:40:04 PM

Haven't checked the polls, but is IU ranked?

Nope....neither is all-world 200 straight appearances coached by God...UW-Madison.

mugrad99 · « **Reply #25 on:** October 29, 2009, 02:37:00 PM »

Quote from: dsfire on October 29, 2009, 01:48:48 PM

Looks like Big Ten media day is today, but they should be top ten in their conference.

INDIANA UNIVERSITY BASKETBALL #10 PRESEASON RANKING *in conference

4everwarriors · « **Reply #26 on:** October 29, 2009, 02:42:13 PM »

Is this the new banner hoisted up in Assembly Hall?

Which team finishes behind the ElectricBeachBum?

chapman · « **Reply #27 on:** October 29, 2009, 03:35:38 PM »

Quote from: 4everwarriors on October 29, 2009, 02:42:13 PM

Is this the new banner hoisted up in Assembly Hall?

Which team finishes behind the ElectricBeachBum?

My guess is Iowa. Two of their best three players transferred from an already bad team. No reason IU shouldn't finish ahead of them.

dsfire · « **Reply #28 on:** October 29, 2009, 03:46:04 PM »

They should beat Northwestern as well. Not sure after that since IU is sort of rebuilding again this year, given that this year's recruits may start ahead of most of the guys on last year's team.

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #29 on:** October 29, 2009, 04:55:13 PM »

Quote from: dsfire on October 29, 2009, 03:46:04 PM

They should beat Northwestern as well. Not sure after that since IU is sort of rebuilding again this year, given that this year's recruits may start ahead of most of the guys on last year's team.

IU is picked 10th this year, Iowa 11th. The results came out today for the Big Ten.

dsfire · « **Reply #30 on:** October 29, 2009, 05:20:45 PM »

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 29, 2009, 04:55:13 PM

IU is picked 10th this year, Iowa 11th. The results came out today for the Big Ten.

Oof, behind Northwestern? It's not like they've got Evan Eschmeyer!

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #31 on:** October 29, 2009, 05:40:08 PM »

Quote from: dsfire on October 29, 2009, 05:20:45 PM

Oof, behind Northwestern? It's not like they've got Evan Eschmeyer!

Northwestern was as close to the NCAA's last year as they've been in a long time (they've never made it). NW made the NIT last year and they have a shot at the big dance this season. Northwestern is picked 8th this year, which is a bubble NCAA team for that league. They are probably going to get 6 teams in for sure, 7 a possibility and 8 on the very outside (unlikely, but not impossible). UW-Madison is picked for 7th....bubble as well. Will the Badgers streak end this year? Last year they were one of the last 4 teams in. They return 11 scholarship players but lost their best players. The league is also much better than last season. 9-9 is very possible for them, so is 8-10 or 10-8.

dsfire · « **Reply #32 on:** October 29, 2009, 06:43:33 PM »

It was mostly tongue-in-cheek. That said, I think Northwestern is probably NIT-bound again this year, and that's a fairly likely destination for Indiana too.

4everwarriors · « **Reply #33 on:** October 29, 2009, 07:29:48 PM »

I've stated this before, but it's worth repeating. NU (yes, it's properly abbreviated as NU, not NW) is not your father's basketball team. Carmody has his own players and they execute the Princeton offense as expected. Last year's team beat Florida State and UW at Welch-Ryan Arena and defeated Michigan State on the road. Don't make the mistake of selling the Wildcats short. They play smart, intelligent basketball and execute their offense and defense very well. While Northwestern may not have the athletes other schools have, their games are fun and entertaining to watch.

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #34 on:** October 29, 2009, 07:30:27 PM »

Quote from: dsfire on October 29, 2009, 06:43:33 PM

It was mostly tongue-in-cheek. That said, I think Northwestern is probably NIT-bound again this year, and that's a fairly likely destination for Indiana too.

I'd be really surprised if IU makes the NIT this year. The conference is really good and they just don't have the horses or experience yet. But, if they did make it and MU made the NIT also......

4everwarriors · « **Reply #35 on:** October 29, 2009, 07:36:14 PM »

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 29, 2009, 07:30:27 PM

I'd be really surprised if IU makes the NIT this year. The conference is really good and they just don't have the horses or experience yet. But, if they did make it and MU made the NIT also......

Maybe Crean uses his connections to cop an invite.

ChicosBailBonds · « **Reply #36 on:** October 29, 2009, 09:49:50 PM »

At the very least, I would expect better treatment then the last time we played them in the NIT.

4everwarriors · « **Reply #37 on:** October 29, 2009, 10:05:03 PM »

Knight and Majerus will not be there and we probably won't have to play 4 on 5 either.

Benny B · « **Reply #38 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:17:47 AM »

Quote from: muhannan on October 29, 2009, 09:00:01 AM

ahhh if you look down at the bottom you see Jim Boeheim as one of the voters...
How does one become a registered voter?

Back on track... I firmly agree that MU should not have received any votes in the pre-season polls, but the Coaches Poll is, and always has been, a joke. I have read in more than one place that in many cases, it is not the coach who actually votes but instead, one of his assistants who fills out the ballot. Additionally, once the season is in full swing, these coaches are so engrossed into their own schedule and upcoming opponents (not to mention recruiting), that they have nowhere near the time to effectively assess the performance of and evaluate as many as 50 teams across the country that may deserve consideration. Remember when some AP football voters said last year that they didn't see a single game Utah played... these are guys whose sole job is to watch & write about college football. Coaches are paid to coach first, recruit second (or vice versa) and vote third... how many games do you think they watch?

My guess is that the simple, yet nearly universal, process for whomever is filling out the ballot on Sunday evening goes like this:

1) Look at last week's poll.
2) Look at last week's AP poll.
3) Watch Sportscenter.
4) Fill out the ballot.

Either way, you have a) a coach who probably hasn't seen a single game played by half of the top 25 teams or b) some graduate student filling out a ballot based on what he saw on Sportcenter last night.

It bears repeating - the Coaches Poll is a joke.

Daniel · « **Reply #39 on:** October 30, 2009, 09:16:06 PM »

Quote from: nyg on October 29, 2009, 08:39:29 AM

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/rankings?pollId=2

Poll is out and needless to say, not one vote for MU.

Did someone somewhere have us like in the 80's or something? So not getting any votes at all makes sense. I'd rather surpirse some people and beat somme rtanked teams so we can creep in sometime this season

77ncaachamps · « **Reply #40 on:** October 30, 2009, 10:38:24 PM »

Interesting note by Goodman (Fox Sports):

How in the world did USC get 22 votes in the Preseason Coaches Poll? Well, my guess is that coaches meant to vote for South Carolina instead of a Trojans team that lost Demar DeRozan, Daniel Hackett and Taj Gibson.

chapman · « **Reply #41 on:** October 30, 2009, 11:02:12 PM »

Quote from: 77ncaachamps on October 30, 2009, 10:38:24 PM

Interesting note by Goodman (Fox Sports):

How in the world did USC get 22 votes in the Preseason Coaches Poll? Well, my guess is that coaches meant to vote for South Carolina instead of a Trojans team that lost Demar DeRozan, Daniel Hackett and Taj Gibson.

Gary Parrish of CBSSports said the same thing, only in a harsher tone. I love his Poll Attacks column, where he singles out one or two individual voters each week and points out how stupid they are.

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Author Topic: 2010 Pre-season Poll (Read 9615 times)