MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: GoldenWarrior11 on February 01, 2014, 03:05:45 PM
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It goes without saying that this season has not gone how most of us (or the team for that matter) may have predicted. Everyone wants someone or something to point a finger at to place blame. Whether its Vander's decision to leave early, Duane's injury, the general lack of the upperclassmen's development, or the lack of minutes to supposedly more talented freshmen, reasons and excuses have been piling up.
After 5 consecutive NCAA tournament appearances, including two Sweet 16s and an Elite Eight, as well as the development of numerous players that have made it to the NBA (Blue, Butler, Buycks, Crowder, DJO, Hayward, Matthews, McNeal), I still fully stand behind and support Buzz Williams leading our team. He is a great example for our players to look up to, and he represents Marquette with the highest standards.
Thanks to his leadership, for the first time in a long time, Marquette is now recruiting blue-chippers left and right, and is becoming one of the top spots in the country for basketball. With Burton, Wilson, Dawson and Johnson in the fold this year, we still have Fischer, Hill, Shayok Pierce, Harris, Cohen and Noskowiak to look forward to in the coming years.
C'mon fellas! The future is BRIGHT! Let's get excited about the fun ride we will all experience!
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Good post! No question this has been a disappointing season for he reasons you cited, but I think it's just a temporary dip.
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Great post and I agree, though it is 8 consecutive NCAA tournament appearances. Maybe that is why people are so quick to turn on this team because we have developed and established a standard of being consistently good. Sure will be tough watching in March this year with MU absent for the first time since 2005.
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Great post and I agree, though it is 8 consecutive NCAA tournament appearances. Maybe that is why people are so quick to turn on this team because we have developed and established a standard of being consistently good. Sure will be tough watching in March this year with MU absent for the first time since 2005.
I was just listing Buzz's accomplishments with the team, but yes that only cements the core of the message: Marquette basketball will continue to be one of the top basketball programs in the country.
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Not to mention the strong chance we have of getting Stone to commit. We could have a significantly better front court in a couple years than we do this year, with some play making guards and a slew of wing players. Unfortunately this just isn't our year.
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Not to mention the strong chance we have of getting Stone to commit. We could have a significantly better front court in a couple years than we do this year, with some play making guards and a slew of wing players. Unfortunately this just isn't our year.
I am also optimistic about the future, but believe some of current issues are a result of poor (in hindsight) HS recruiting classed several years back. Another poster mentioned this a while back, and it was a good thought, IMHO. If you look at our current senior class, only Davante remains. Vander was great, but left. It also included Jamail Jones, Reggie Smith and DJ Newbill, none of whom worked out for various reasons. Jae also came in that year, but could only stay two years. The class has since been supplemented with Jamil and Jake, both transfers, and redshirt Chris, from a direct HS recruit standpoint, DG is all that's left.
The junior class has stayed, but has really been average, with Juan, Todd and Derrick
And the sophomore class is just Steve, with Ferguson leaving.
What's more, the JUCO route cooled off, with TJ Taylor and McKay taking scholarships and never touching the court. While juco transfers don't stay a full 4 years, they do contribute experience playing at a higher level of competition post HS.
I believe Buzz now has his gotten into the groove on recruiting. We have a very talented, highly rated freshman class here, and another arriving next year. While some may not stay, there are enough talented recruits in those two classes restock what we missed in prior years. We have the rest of this year to suffer through, and maybe some of next. But I believe this to shall pass.
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I am also optimistic about the future, but believe some of current issues are a result of poor (in hindsight) HS recruiting classed several years back. Another poster mentioned this a while back, and it was a good thought, IMHO. If you look at our current senior class, only Davante remains. Vander was great, but left. It also included Jamail Jones, Reggie Smith and DJ Newbill, none of whom worked out for various reasons. Jae also came in that year, but could only stay two years. The class has since been supplemented with Jamil and Jake, both transfers, and redshirt Chris, from a direct HS recruit standpoint, DG is all that's left.
The junior class has stayed, but has really been average, with Juan, Todd and Derrick
And the sophomore class is just Steve, with Ferguson leaving.
What's more, the JUCO route cooled off, with TJ Taylor and McKay taking scholarships and never touching the court. While juco transfers don't stay a full 4 years, they do contribute experience playing at a higher level of competition post HS.
The junior class is way below average, Todd is only average at best and on the road he is horrible, Juan can make some hustle plays but can not hit an open J as you saw today, and well
Derrick, everything possible there has been discussed.
I believe Buzz now has his gotten into the groove on recruiting. We have a very talented, highly rated freshman class here, and another arriving next year. While some may not stay, there are enough talented recruits in those two classes restock what we missed in prior years. We have the rest of this year to suffer through, and maybe some of next. But I believe this to shall pass.
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I agreee on below average. I started with well below average, then decided to be polite.
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I am also optimistic about the future, but believe some of current issues are a result of poor (in hindsight) HS recruiting classed several years back. Another poster mentioned this a while back, and it was a good thought, IMHO. If you look at our current senior class, only Davante remains. Vander was great, but left. It also included Jamail Jones, Reggie Smith and DJ Newbill, none of whom worked out for various reasons. Jae also came in that year, but could only stay two years. The class has since been supplemented with Jamil and Jake, both transfers, and redshirt Chris, from a direct HS recruit standpoint, DG is all that's left.
The junior class has stayed, but has really been average, with Juan, Todd and Derrick
And the sophomore class is just Steve, with Ferguson leaving.
What's more, the JUCO route cooled off, with TJ Taylor and McKay taking scholarships and never touching the court. While juco transfers don't stay a full 4 years, they do contribute experience playing at a higher level of competition post HS.
I believe Buzz now has his gotten into the groove on recruiting. We have a very talented, highly rated freshman class here, and another arriving next year. While some may not stay, there are enough talented recruits in those two classes restock what we missed in prior years. We have the rest of this year to suffer through, and maybe some of next. But I believe this to shall pass.
The transfer of TJ Taylor was probably a bigger detriment to this team than anyone will realize. Guy is killing it down at UNT
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I do think TJ Taylor would have been a good addition to this year's squad. He seems to have found his way at UNT and is contributingore after being hurt early.
http://www.meangreensports.com/sports/m-baskbl/mtt/tj_taylor_850581.html
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And totally agree with the OP's premise that we have had the most consistent success since the 70s under Buzz and have the highest level of talent coming in.
The guy is only 41 or so, I'm sure he's still learning. CEOs, teachers and pastors his age certainly continue to learn.
He's our guy. Go Marquette.
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Great post GoldenWarrior.
GO MARQUETTE!
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Hill is closing in on 3000 career points in Georgia. The rest of the class is highly rated. Duane will be healthy, Fischer shows up in December. I'm not sure how next year goes, but 15-16 is going to be ridiculous. This year is frustrating. No avoiding that. Into each life some rain must fall.
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I am completely fine with having a down season, it happens to all great programs. My issue is that I really do not see anything on the court this year to have me jacked up for next season. Not enough guys coming back have stepped it up and young guys will still be inexperienced next season. The team has not had even 15 minute run that you could say was great, exciting basketball. If the first half the other night was our best ball we have longer ways to go then most on here want to admit.
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My issue is that I really do not see anything on the court this year to have me jacked up for next season.
Understand the frustration however every time Burton touches the ball I think of how amazing he can be after a year in the system.
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Warrior Fan
I love Burton but needs more experience and better guys around him. Not sure pieces are out together to see what he is capable of next season.
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I think it is fair to wonder if next season will be frustrating, too. Still, I do believe all the young players who return will be better and healthier next year and they will be joined by a very good recruiting class, followed by another good class.
Yes, this year has tested the patience of everybody who cares about Marquette basketball -- starting with Buzz, himself. But programs do have an off year or two. For some, those off years bring 5-24 records, crappy recruiting classes and no hope. That isn't the case here.
Fans aren't good at being patient. I'm trying, and I think I will be rewarded handsomely.
But even those who refuse to be patient, what's your alternative? Root for Bucky? Green Bay? DePaul? Go ahead. Don't let the door hit you on the way out, and don't come back when we're great again.
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The future is brighter, but I think the bright future is not next year but the year after. When Burton, JJJ, Dawson and Fischer are juniors and the incoming class and Duane Wilson are sophomores. That will be at least a top 25 team and the next year a top 10 team.
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I think it is fair to wonder if next season will be frustrating, too. Still, I do believe all the young players who return will be better and healthier next year and they will be joined by a very good recruiting class, followed by another good class.
Yes, this year has tested the patience of everybody who cares about Marquette basketball -- starting with Buzz, himself. But programs do have an off year or two. For some, those off years bring 5-24 records, crappy recruiting classes and no hope. That isn't the case here.
Fans aren't good at being patient. I'm trying, and I think I will be rewarded handsomely.
But even those who refuse to be patient, what's your alternative? Root for Bucky? Green Bay? DePaul? Go ahead. Don't let the door hit you on the way out, and don't come back when we're great again.
Agree until the last paragraph. Some people need to vent. Some too much. But almost all will remain fans.
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I am completely fine with having a down season, it happens to all great programs. My issue is that I really do not see anything on the court this year to have me jacked up for next season. Not enough guys coming back have stepped it up and young guys will still be inexperienced next season. The team has not had even 15 minute run that you could say was great, exciting basketball. If the first half the other night was our best ball we have longer ways to go then most on here want to admit.
I may be over-optimistic but I think Duane Wilson will be a HUGE difference next year. Its obviously a big question mark as the guy has never had 1 minute in a collegiate game but everything I've been reading and seeing points to that he is going to be an immediate impact player. Between him, Dawson and Burton, plus a more mature Mayo, I think we are going to look very good in the backcourt. The Fischer transfer helps plug the holes in the frontcourt left by Gardner and Otule.
Next year will not be a full recovery. I don't think we crack the top 25 anytime. Hopefully we sneak into the NCAA as an 11 or 12 seed.
I think 2015-2016 is the year MU is back to the level of competition we have gotten used to over the last few years.
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My take on future seasons:
2014-2015: "Rebuilding year" of sorts. Buzz brings in most balanced recruiting class to date with 1 PG (Duane), 1 SG (Hill), 2 SF (Cohen/Shayock), 1 PF (Harris), and 2 C (Fischer and Pierce). Lack of upperclassmen leadership leads to a rough start in non-con (Would suggest a much easier non-con then this year). Derrick attempts to lead team with his words and Mayo attempts to lead team by "being the man." As conference play starts, the underclassmen begin to come into their own, especially the sophomores. Enter Luke Fischer to round out the rotation. Burton begins to lead the team with both words and his play. Have some decent runs in conference play and end up in the top half of the big east. Back in the tournament as mid to low seed.
2015-2016: We are back to what we have come to expect. A small class comes in but is powerful with top 60 Noskowiak and top 5 Stone (the more and more I hear, the more and more I like our chances). Taylor is the lone elder statesmen but the Junior class is the one that leads. The starting lineup of Duane, JJJ, Burton, Taylor, and Fischer (with Diamond being the 1st off the bench) dominates Big East play. We will be fighting Georgetown for the conference title (they will take a very similar path to us). End up with a four seed or higher and make a decent run in the tournament. We are in danger of losing JJJ, Burton, and Stone to the draft.
2016-2017: "The year." Assuming no major defections, this is the team we have been waiting for. Having only one scholarship, Buzz spends all of his time reeling in a stud, maybe Jayson Tatum? A starting a lineup of Duane, JJJ, Burton, Fischer, and Stone dominates non-conference play (Hill/Cohen getting major minutes off the bench). Would love to sign up for a major tournament like Maui this year. Burton conintues to be the leader on the team as he has been since the second half of his sophomore year. Roll through the BEast schedule and end up as conference champs. Get a 1/2 seed in the tournament and make a run all the way to the Final Four. Stone probably goes pro if he didn't already.
2017-2016: A down year, not as bad as the current year, but worse than expected. We come in with high hopes because our Juniors have looked solid as backups. But never having to be the "man" really affects players such as Hill/Cohen who we expected to rely on. Still come out with a NCAA tournament berth but not as high as we would have expected. Scoopers go crazy
Before anyone tries to tear this down as "blue and gold goggles" or "kool-aid slurping" let me say that I don't care. This is the trajectory I see and I am very aware of my position as one of the biggest optimists on the board. I think the future is very bright and I am looking forward to seeing this team grow.
RING OUT AHOYA!!!
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Hard working optimists eventually have success. Pessimist believe they are realists but, in fact, only end all hope. They defeat themselves. Some of us are a little bit of both but the good part is we have a choice and we can change. To second guess or worry about what others think only diffuses our focus on the goal.
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As bright as I things look going forward, this team will struggle next year. Once again, we're going to have an issue with upperclassman leadership, and I'm not sure who steps up. I think as the season evolves, Du Wilson and Burton develop into the heart of this team, but it's going to take time for this team to get its legs under it and develop an identity, especially if De Wilson is still playing long minutes next year. Would like to see Steve Taylor take a huge step forward and play with more intensity to separate himself from the Jamil Wilson mold.
Our defensive may be a mixed bag next year. Hope the defense of Burton, Taylor and JJJ improves immensely, or we're in a world of hurt. Steve having an offseason should help. All three are way too physically gifted (especially Burton and Taylor) to be lackluster defenders.
Our offense hinges on Burton's and JJJ's ability to learn to pass when they get great penetration and draw attention. Burton regularly draws three when he gets inside. That means options. If one more shooter presents himself (Du Wilson?), this could be a well-oiled offensive machine in the later stages of the season.
It will take time, though. Our lone big is a freshman and may struggle with fatigue and foul trouble, and we should expect freshman things out of him.
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I am completely fine with having a down season, it happens to all great programs. My issue is that I really do not see anything on the court this year to have me jacked up for next season. Not enough guys coming back have stepped it up and young guys will still be inexperienced next season. The team has not had even 15 minute run that you could say was great, exciting basketball. If the first half the other night was our best ball we have longer ways to go then most on here want to admit.
I can certainly understand the older generation of Marquette fans coping with the pathetic season given our streak of success over the past 10 years. You easily dismiss criticism because you're taking in a larger perspective. That's fine and I get it. But, if we're terrible next year, will you allow complaints on Buzz, recruiting, players? Great post, Goose. Next year might be just as frustrating.
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Our offense hinges on Burton's and JJJ's ability to learn to pass when they get great penetration and draw attention. Burton regularly draws three when he gets inside. That means options. If one more shooter presents himself (Du Wilson?), this could be a well-oiled offensive machine in the later stages of the season.
Agreed on Burton, but JJJ has shown remarkably passing ability for a freshman. He averages over 1 assist per game in 15 mins of action. His dish to Otule on his drive in the providence game was a thing of beauty
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Burton should become a great player, but he does have to become more polished.
He is an animal on the boards and goes aggressively to score. He has to learn control, better passing skills and better D. If he develops those, he will be a big time game changer.
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As bright as I things look going forward, this team will struggle next year. Once again, we're going to have an issue with upperclassman leadership, and I'm not sure who steps up. I think as the season evolves, Du Wilson and Burton develop into the heart of this team, but it's going to take time for this team to get its legs under it and develop an identity, especially if De Wilson is still playing long minutes next year. Would like to see Steve Taylor take a huge step forward and play with more intensity to separate himself from the Jamil Wilson mold.
I think next year will be more of the kind of team we are used to where they start out a little slow and get better as the year goes on. The lineup will be mostly young guys who will take coaching a little better.
Leadership has definitely been a problem this year - I don't think it will be next year. I think Derrick and Juan have shown they are fully invested in this team and will provide that leadership even tho' they may only play 20 minutes or less a game. As much as I have been critical of Derrick this year, he showed his heart in the 2nd half yesterday and that is going to carry over to next year. He showed the younger guys what it means to give everything even in a blowout.
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My take on future seasons:
2014-2015: "Rebuilding year" of sorts. Buzz brings in most balanced recruiting class to date with 1 PG (Duane), 1 SG (Hill), 2 SF (Cohen/Shayock), 1 PF (Harris), and 2 C (Fischer and Pierce). Lack of upperclassmen leadership leads to a rough start in non-con (Would suggest a much easier non-con then this year). Derrick attempts to lead team with his words and Mayo attempts to lead team by "being the man." As conference play starts, the underclassmen begin to come into their own, especially the sophomores. Enter Luke Fischer to round out the rotation. Burton begins to lead the team with both words and his play. Have some decent runs in conference play and end up in the top half of the big east. Back in the tournament as mid to low seed.
2015-2016: We are back to what we have come to expect. A small class comes in but is powerful with top 60 Noskowiak and top 5 Stone (the more and more I hear, the more and more I like our chances). Taylor is the lone elder statesmen but the Junior class is the one that leads. The starting lineup of Duane, JJJ, Burton, Taylor, and Fischer (with Diamond being the 1st off the bench) dominates Big East play. We will be fighting Georgetown for the conference title (they will take a very similar path to us). End up with a four seed or higher and make a decent run in the tournament. We are in danger of losing JJJ, Burton, and Stone to the draft.
2016-2017: "The year." Assuming no major defections, this is the team we have been waiting for. Having only one scholarship, Buzz spends all of his time reeling in a stud, maybe Jayson Tatum? A starting a lineup of Duane, JJJ, Burton, Fischer, and Stone dominates non-conference play (Hill/Cohen getting major minutes off the bench). Would love to sign up for a major tournament like Maui this year. Burton conintues to be the leader on the team as he has been since the second half of his sophomore year. Roll through the BEast schedule and end up as conference champs. Get a 1/2 seed in the tournament and make a run all the way to the Final Four. Stone probably goes pro if he didn't already.
2017-2016: A down year, not as bad as the current year, but worse than expected. We come in with high hopes because our Juniors have looked solid as backups. But never having to be the "man" really affects players such as Hill/Cohen who we expected to rely on. Still come out with a NCAA tournament berth but not as high as we would have expected. Scoopers go crazy
Before anyone tries to tear this down as "blue and gold goggles" or "kool-aid slurping" let me say that I don't care. This is the trajectory I see and I am very aware of my position as one of the biggest optimists on the board. I think the future is very bright and I am looking forward to seeing this team grow.
RING OUT AHOYA!!!
This is optimistic but it's not crazy-optimistic. Every single thing you state here could happen (except the final season being 2017-16, because they don't go backwards -- aren't typos fun!).
Nice job, TAMU.
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Hard working optimists eventually have success. Pessimist believe they are realists but, in fact, only end all hope. They defeat themselves. Some of us are a little bit of both but the good part is we have a choice and we can change. To second guess or worry about what others think only diffuses our focus on the goal.
I consider myself neither an optimist nor a pessimist. I am a realist.
This year was an aberration -- a confluence of confounding coaching, bad breaks and unsatisfactory guard play. Next season will be better but still not up to the standards of Buzz's first five years. 2015-16 and 2016-17 will be every bit as good as the S16-S16-E8 run -- and if breaks fall our way in The Chicos Crapshoot Tournament, a Final Four or more isn't out of the realm of possibility.
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Pretty good analysis, except I think 15-16 could be 'the year' if Stone is as good as advertised. we will have very good soph & junior classes to go along with stone.
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I consider myself neither an optimist nor a pessimist. I am a realist.
This year was an aberration -- a confluence of confounding coaching, bad breaks and unsatisfactory guard play. Next season will be better but still not up to the standards of Buzz's first five years. 2015-16 and 2016-17 will be every bit as good as the S16-S16-E8 run -- and if breaks fall our way in The Chicos Crapshoot Tournament, a Final Four or more isn't out of the realm of possibility.
My thinking exactly.
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My thinking exactly.
I'd also throw in the lack of a go-to guy.
Jamil's unwillingness or inability to take over the Lazar/Jimmy/Jae/Vander role made some of our other problems really stick out.
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With everything I've heard and read about Ahmed Hill, there's no way he's on the bench and not figuring into the mix at least by 15-16.
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I agree. Look at Nova the last couple of seasons and now look where they are at. Gtown is struggling as well though they managed to put a good game together agains MSU. Loosing Mckay, Wilson and Vander has not helped. If there are no drastic changes the future does look bright.