2011-12 NFC North Division

[jmayer1]

Should be over Jennings.

Trade Flynn for a high pick, but he is not better than Cutler. Third best QB in the division for sure.

I'd take Stafford over Cutler, Cutler over Flynn, and my high school qb over anybody the Vikes are trotting out these days.

[MUMac]

I'd take Stafford over Cutler, Cutler over Flynn, and my high school qb over anybody the Vikes are trotting out these days.

I agree with that.  Stafford really showed his development this year.  He has a nice arm, but also has a nice touch.  He is a very good QB right now.  Some of his decision making is still questionable.  But, he has the tools and weapons to continue to have success.

I am surprised, though, at Detroits D.  They are not what I thought they would be.  The D-line is not nearly as strong as most predicted.  They gave up a ton of points this year (based upon their reputation).

[tower912]

Detroit's defense has been decent, but the D-line has failed to dominate like they need to.   D-coordinator Gunther Cunningham has been reluctant to blitz, particularly against QB's who get the ball out quick, but if they only rush 4 against Brees next week, they will lose big.   Fun game today.   I don't think either fanbase is going to have positive things to say about the refs, but you can say that most weeks.   

[MUMac]

Detroit's defense has been decent, but the D-line has failed to dominate like they need to.   D-coordinator Gunther Cunningham has been reluctant to blitz, particularly against QB's who get the ball out quick, but if they only rush 4 against Brees next week, they will lose big.   Fun game today.   I don't think either fanbase is going to have positive things to say about the refs, but you can say that most weeks.   

It really was a fun game to watch.  Both offenses were exciting.  I also agree about the officiating.  It really was a poor effort today.  Both teams deserved better.

[Blackhat]

Game was pretty disturbing, more than entertaining (then again I prefer defense, in f-ball and b-ball but realize Matthews & Woodson weren't in).

Only possible reasons I can think of for GB's D regression this year are:
1) Jenkins/ no pass rush
2) thus Capers has to blitz, vacating space and O coordinators know it.
3) Dave Redding the established S&C coach retired, the previously demoted S&C coach took control again. (hard to prove or disprove but we've been getting run on all year and Lovat was demoted previously)

Been a frustrating year to watch our D with much the same personnel go from a top 10 unit to what we saw from them this year.  

Buckle your belts a playoff run is far from a sure thing for the Pack.

[MUMac]

Game was pretty disturbing, more than entertaining (then again I prefer defense, in f-ball and b-ball but realize Matthews & Woodson weren't in).

Only possible reasons I can think of for GB's D regression this year are:
1) Jenkins/ no pass rush
2) thus Capers has to blitz, vacating space and O coordinators know it.
3) Dave Redding the established S&C coach retired, the previously demoted S&C coach took control again. (hard to prove or disprove but we've been getting run on all year and Lovat was demoted previously)

Been a frustrating year to watch our D with much the same personnel go from a top 10 unit to what we saw from them this year.  

Buckle your belts a playoff run is far from a sure thing for the Pack.

I think it is more a combination of loss of Jenkins and Collins.  With either, the D would be different.  With both, much different.  Last year Pehprah was able to adequately replace Burnett, because he had Collins back there to make up for mistakes.  Burnett, currently, does not have that same capability.  That, to me, has been a HUGE loss in both the pass and run game.

Add to that, TWilliams and Shields have not played as well.  Woodson has lost a step, but still can make huge plays.  Still, he is susceptible to giving up big plays.

TT did make a mistake not resigning Jenkins.  I always wanted him to resign.  I think TT calculated that the market would be higher for him than it was.  In addition, I think the loss of Neal has hurt.  He is still, for practical purposes, in his first year of football and missed most of this years camp.  He does not play with strength, power, or explosion that I expected.

Jenkins would definitely have made Raji and Pickett better players.

The D is the one concern I have with getting to the SB, much less repeating.

[Blackhat]

I agree with Collins being a big loss in the secondary.   Not much we can do about it now but I hope obviously TT focuses on D in the draft and Lovat is replaced.  I feel Capers deserves another shot next year and if we win out I'm sure he will, if not I don't know.

wonder what we could've gotten for Flynn this off season if he wasn't a FA.  Holy crap. 

[jmayer1]

I agree with Collins being a big loss in the secondary.   Not much we can do about it now but I hope obviously TT focuses on D in the draft and Lovat is replaced.  I feel Capers deserves another shot next year and if we win out I'm sure he will, if not I don't know.

wonder what we could've gotten for Flynn this off season if he wasn't a FA.  Holy crap. 

Capers will absolutely, 100% be back no matter what happens, unless he gets a hc job or retires, both of which seem unlikely.

[MUMac]

I hope looks at the draft and goes D in Rd's 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.  Gurley and Simpson are in place if Driver retires.  With Sherrod's injury, the OL has a minor concern.  Otherwise, D all the way.

Capers will be back.  It's not scheme, it's personnel.  The loss of Jenkins showed that the Packers do not have a right side LB.  Jenkins created push from the right side, allowing Raji to collapse the middle with Matthews on the left.  The lack of any right side threat has allowed offenses to shift to Raji and Matthews.  That is personnel, not scheme.  TT knows it.

[MUMac]

Tower, I hope you don't mind my question.  What are your impressions of Schwarz?  I am more interested in a Lions fan perspective.  I will admit, up front, my impression is that he brings a lot of positives, but his emotions need to be checked a bit more - both on and off the field.  The tantrum that cost them a TO when the officials blew the TD call should not happen at that level.  His emotions play into the players and that, IMHO, is a reason why I think the Lions are getting a reputation for being cheap and dirty.

The reason for the question is I heard some of his press conference from today.  I was not impressed.  He threw everyone under the bus.  After the way he acted on the field, well I just wanted your perspective ...

[MU B2002]

Tower, I hope you don't mind my question.  What are your impressions of Schwarz?  I am more interested in a Lions fan perspective.  I will admit, up front, my impression is that he brings a lot of positives, but his emotions need to be checked a bit more - both on and off the field.  The tantrum that cost them a TO when the officials blew the TD call should not happen at that level.  His emotions play into the players and that, IMHO, is a reason why I think the Lions are getting a reputation for being cheap and dirty.

The reason for the question is I heard some of his press conference from today.  I was not impressed.  He threw everyone under the bus.  After the way he acted on the field, well I just wanted your perspective ...

Bill Simmons of ESPN's Grantland agrees with you(on Schwartz acting like a hothead) and has been pushing this for about 1/2 the season.

[DegenerateDish]

I was wondering if Flynn hurt Rodgers MVP chances today. Too bad for GB they won't get solid compensation for Flynn this offseason (other than late round comp pick).

[GGGG]

Capers will absolutely, 100% be back no matter what happens, unless he gets a hc job or retires, both of which seem unlikely.

It really wouldn't be consistent with the "philosophy" of the Packers to fire their defensive coordinator after a 15-1 season even if they lose in the Divisional round of the playoffs.

[tower912]

Compared to what we've had.... he's an improvement.    Little trivia here.   No head coach of the Lions has EVER been a head coach again in the NFL after he leaves the Lions.   Morninwheg at Philly may be the first.   Graveyard of coaches.   There is something to the idea that a team reflects its coach.   Especially on a team like Detroit that really only had two veterans, and no one who had ever been to the playoffs when he arrived.   Not a lot of experienced team leaders in the locker room so they really became an extension of the coach.   I think he is a good coach who lets his emotions get the better of him.    He needs to learn to control himself.
     He is usually brutally honest in his pressers.   He didn't say anything about his defense that wasn't true, he just said it publicly whereas other coaches look for more diplomatic ways to say it or don't say it at all.    He sounded like a fan on MUScoop referencing MU's last performance instead of a head coach.   I can see him burning himself out.   Only a few NFL coaches last 10 years in any one spot and considering the amount of effort he has put into turning this team around from 0-16, I can see him only lasting a couple more years.
    So, like all of us, he is a work in progress.   

[dwaderoy2004]

Dish, don't you think the pack will franchise flynn and then trade him to the highest bidder?

[mugrad2006]

Dish, don't you think the pack will franchise flynn and then trade him to the highest bidder?

The franchise tag requires paying the average of the last five years of the highest player at the position.  I doubt the Packers are willing to risk somewhere between $14-16M for Flynn on the chance that another team will provide a more lucrative offer. That's a lot of money to pay a backup, and I doubt another team will match such a lucrative offer.  Flynn has no risk of taking it, as teams will just wait one more year to sign him, high potential quarterbacks are always in demand.

Plus, you've got Jermichael Finley and Scott Wells coming up as Unrestricted Free Agents.

[MUMac]

Dish, don't you think the pack will franchise flynn and then trade him to the highest bidder?

I am not Dish, but my answer is no.  Flynn is not worth the Franchise amount.  Far too risky.

The Packers made the decision in the off season to keep Flynn rather than trade him.  That would have been the time to do it, to get some value.  They felt it was too important to have him as a backup and worth the opportunity cost.

[GGGG]

Plus, you've got Jermichael Finley and Scott Wells coming up as Unrestricted Free Agents.

I would be surprised if Finley is in a GB uniform next year.  I think someone will overpay for him.

[MUMac]

I would be surprised if Finley is in a GB uniform next year.  I think someone will overpay for him.

The only way Finley is in a Packer uniform is if they Franchise him.  I don't see them giving him big bucks and a long term contract.  I could see them franchising him and paying him one year.  See if the drops were an anomaly or not.

[GGGG]

The only way Finley is in a Packer uniform is if they Franchise him.  I don't see them giving him big bucks and a long term contract.  I could see them franchising him and paying him one year.  See if the drops were an anomaly or not.

I think they would franchise Wells before Finley.

[MUMac]

I think they would franchise Wells before Finley.

I would guess they come to an agreement with Wells before they would Finley.  I doubt Wells sees FA.

[jmayer1]

The franchise tag requires paying the average of the last five years of the highest player at the position.  I doubt the Packers are willing to risk somewhere between $14-16M for Flynn on the chance that another team will provide a more lucrative offer. That's a lot of money to pay a backup, and I doubt another team will match such a lucrative offer.  Flynn has no risk of taking it, as teams will just wait one more year to sign him, high potential quarterbacks are always in demand.

Plus, you've got Jermichael Finley and Scott Wells coming up as Unrestricted Free Agents.

It's a big risk and I don't see the Pack doing it (I think there is a very good chance they'll franchise Finley) but there is precedent with Cassell and the Patriots/Chiefs trade.

[MUBurrow]

I'd be shocked if the Packers didnt franchise Finley. He's got too much athleticism/upside at what is becoming too important a position in the NFL, particularly for pass-heavy offenses.  Sure the drops are a bummer, but 1) i think they go away and 2) he still does wonders in creating matchup problems and helping open things up. When you look around the league, all the pass heavy offenses are investing in young, dynamic pass catching TEs. NO with Jimmy Graham, NE with Gronk & Hernandez, Det with Pettigrew.  If the Pack don't intend to extend Finley long term, I think they'll have to franchise him and look for a replacement in the draft this spring.

On a related note, Finley's appeal to be classified as a WR rather than a TE for franchise purposes could get interested. Dude lines up in the slot a ton, and certainly seems to do a lot of his damage through the air from there. I don't have any stats on the subject in front of me, but the narrowing gap between what makes a TE not a WR is an interesting development given the guys I just mentioned and the trend toward spread offenses.

[GGGG]

Packers won a Super Bowl w/o Finley.  I don't think he's worth franchise money. 

[MUMac]

Packers won a Super Bowl w/o Finley.  I don't think he's worth franchise money. 

The injury to Quarless may factor into the Packers decision.  I like DJ Williams potential, but he is not nearly ready.  The Packers need a #1 TE, and they don't have that guy on the roster, other than Finley, right now.  Quarless could be, but he is in question right now.