2011-12 NFC North Division

[NavinRJohnson]

I think it is more the over-the-top reporting of Tebow than any disdain for him personally.  Tom Jackson said something like "something is going on here that's unexplainable."  ESPN also uses words like "miracle" to describe yesterday.  Essentially they are implying that God is on his side.

First off, ESPN is over the top on anything and everything. They should be the standard for nothing. However, good catch changing the word inferring to implying, because that seems to be where the breakdown is occurring. Tom Jackson said, “I don’t want to get overly dramatic, but there is something magical about what (Tebow) is able to do.”

People can choose to infer that they and others are saying that God is on his side, but that is not the way I see it. I know some will joke about it, but you and I both know that's exactly what they are doing. Fact is, I can't explain how a guy who can't play, gets it done week after week, and I don't believe for one second God is playing a role. From where I'm sitting, people are using the coverage as an excuse for their own insecurity, bigotry...whatever it is. I just don't get the whole thing. The guy never did anything to anyone, yet he may be the most disliked player in the NFL. That too is unexplainable.

[GGGG]

I would buy that if the attacks did not happen until these comments.  Fact is, they happenned immediately.  See the Lions D-Line when they sacked Tebow, as an example.

The over the top media stuff was happening way back in college.  From his freshman year at Florida.  It isn't new.

[reinko]

I would buy that if the attacks did not happen until these comments.  Fact is, they happenned immediately.  See the Lions D-Line when they sacked Tebow, as an example.

Tebow has taken a strong religious position.  Especially a Christian position.  Unfortunately, in America today that means you are subject to ridicule.

I have listenned to interviews with Tebow.  Very impressive how he handles himself and the comments/derision passed his way.

Not trying to change the subject, but are you really suggested that Christians are subject to ridicule here in the United States?  A group that comprises over 80% of all Americans?

[MUMac]

The over the top media stuff was happening way back in college.  From his freshman year at Florida.  It isn't new.

The over the top was more the hype on his play.  Not his religious beliefs.  You did not see the derission thrown his way in college due to his wearing Christianity on his sleeve.  You see him mocked and that is acceptable.  Yet, the guy who celebrates and is immediately chastised by the press and public is the one who makes fun of Plaxico Burress.  Really?

[GGGG]

People can choose to infer that they and others are saying that God is on his side, but that is not the way I see it. I know some will joke about it, but you and I both know that's exactly what they are doing. Fact is, I can't explain how a guy who can't play, gets it done week after week, and I don't believe for one second God is playing a role.

It's not that inexplicable.  Denver has a great defense that keeps it close, and Tebow does well in a two-minute style offense where he can be more instinctive and isn't processing the game too much.  This is hardly unprecedented in the NFL.  When Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl for the Ravens, he had a lower QB rating than Tebow does now.

[GGGG]

The over the top was more the hype on his play.  Not his religious beliefs. 

I am going to have to disagree with you on that.  In fact, one of the first things I remember hearing about him was that he was a child of religious missionaries.

[NavinRJohnson]

Not trying to change the subject, but are you really suggested that Christians are subject to ridicule here in the United States?  A group that comprises over 80% of all Americans?

Is this a serious question? Have you paid any attention to the media, politics, etc.?

[MUMac]

Not trying to change the subject, but are you really suggested that Christians are subject to ridicule here in the United States?  A group that comprises over 80% of all Americans?

Yes, in the media.  It is far easier to ridicule Christianity.  That is my opinion.  Try and mock other faith's and you will see the press come down strong and hard.

But, you are correct.  Make that a different thread if you like.  I am only responding to that one time so as not to change this thread.

[MUMac]

I am going to have to disagree with you on that.  In fact, one of the first things I remember hearing about him was that he was a child of religious missionaries.

I guess the perspective is that you heard about it.  Yes, he even had biblical versus on his black eye patches.  The point I was referencing is he was not mocked for it in college.  He is now.  The mocking came before the press started invoking the comments in the post that I responded to.  That there is divine intervention ...  That was the point that was made, that was the point I discussed.

[MerrittsMustache]

Not trying to change the subject, but are you really suggested that Christians are subject to ridicule here in the United States?  A group that comprises over 80% of all Americans?

Vocal minority, my friend. Religion is a touchy subject. While a vast majority of Americans have no problem with the term "Christmas tree," if such a decoration is put up at a federal building and not called a "holiday tree," there are going to be loud, angry protests. If they call it a "holiday tree" to begin with, that silent majority roll their eyes and go about their business.

If an openly religious football player films a pro-life commercial, it's "controversial" and he's "pushing his religion on the masses." No one cares that part of the reason the football player feels so strongly is because his mother was advised to get an abortion when she was pregnant with him but ignored the advice. It's all about religion.

[NavinRJohnson]

If an openly religious football player films a pro-life commercial, it's "controversial" and he's "pushing his religion on the masses." No one cares that part of the reason the football player feels so strongly is because his mother was advised to get an abortion when she was pregnant with him but ignored the advice. It's all about religion.

On the money!


Here is an interesting read on the topic:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Tim-Tebow-why-the-heck-do-we-hate-him-110211

As is this:

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-12-08/sports/ct-spt-1209-dan-mcneil--20111209_1_tim-tebow-tebowmania-kyle-orton


That also goes for the haters. When I'm battling rush-hour commutes, I don't want ridiculously ill-placed vitriol making the ride with me. I don't browse the Internet, looking for the next joker to take a shot at Tebow, most likely for the QB's affection for Jesus Christ.

Bigotry isn't attractive.

I have been neither inspired nor irritated by anything I've heard Tebow say. Why anybody would allow blood pressure to rise over what an athlete or any entertainer says about religion, abortion or politics is incomprehensible. Yet the deep-seeded venom that spills from so many when discussing the quarterback is all over the place.

[reinko]

Good stuff guys, food for thought, no need to derail any further. 

Back to the NFC talk.

Apparently Urlacher thinks Tebow is a helluva running back.

[MerrittsMustache]

Good stuff guys, food for thought, no need to derail any further. 

Back to the NFC talk.

Apparently Urlacher thinks Tebow is a helluva running back.

Urlacher stopped short of saying: "Tebow is a great running back. He doesn't fumble in OT and he stays in bounds with the lead to help run out the clock."

[ringout]

Tebow's team will follow him through a cement block wall.  That is leadership.  He is a winner.  He is handling all the hubub magnificently.  He is giving credit where credit is due (Defense, O Line, etc.)  

There are hundreds of examples of guys with great measurables for the QB position who failed (Todd Marinovitch for those that watched his documentary this weekend).

Long Term, if he doesn't improve his skills, he won't survive.   But he has heart, and that's what's winning now.

I would take a room full of Tebows in my business.   He will be a success at whatever he chooses.

[MUBurrow]

People hate hearing tebow talk about religion, abortion, etc for the same reason its not allowed on muscoop.  Only problem is you can't lock the threads on your TV when Tebow is talking about religion while keeping the ones open when he is playing football (to carry the comparison through). It all blend together, and that's only gotten more true since he became known as the Bronco's "miracle worker."  I think its unfair to denounce people as bigots when they are simply searching for the same thing out of Tebow and the Broncos in the media that we search for out of MU here.

edited to mention that I'm personally a huge Tebrow fan more for the legend than the religious, political stuff, and actually i think that kind obfuscates what a badass he is

[Hards Alumni]

I think the problem that a lot of people have with the Tebow thing is that I am watching football to escape for 3 hours on Sunday (more if I have time) and I really don't need any lecture about how Christian someone is or is not.

A lot of the same could be said about the propaganda that gets thrown around most college sports (football the most).

I consider myself a proud American, but I really could do without all the nationalism.

Time to walk away from the fire I probably just started.

[DegenerateDish]

I don't like Tebow only because I think he's a terrible NFL quarterback. If I don't want to hear about his religious views, I turn a deaf ear.

I also applaud the Packers for their stock sale. It's incredibly smart business, strike while the iron is hot. I've said it on here before, but the Packers are a first class run organization.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think the problem that a lot of people have with the Tebow thing is that I am watching football to escape for 3 hours on Sunday (more if I have time) and I really don't need any lecture about how Christian someone is or is not.

A lot of the same could be said about the propaganda that gets thrown around most college sports (football the most).

I consider myself a proud American, but I really could do without all the nationalism.

Time to walk away from the fire I probably just started.

I think that's an honest assessment and I don't think you are being unfair.

With this said, Tebow is highly religious, and I think it's interwoven into who he is. I don't know if he consciously talks about God, or if it just comes out because it's his number one priority.

If I get up in the morning and it's nice out, I think "alright!" If he gets up in the morning and it's nice out, he thinks "thank you Jesus!". I think it's just who he is.

A lot of players are always promoting a drink, a car, an album, a clothing line, hunting shows (jared allen), or even McDonald's (Donald Driver).

I think I can live with a guy promoting his faith. He seems genuine, and isn't hurting anybody.

[JWags85]

I think everything has been said here ad nauseum, but I feel the need to say one more thing after Navin so graciously accused me of being bigoted for calling him "Saint Timothy" when every media outlet seems to find the need to tie improbable victories to his piety. Its impossible to dislike him as an overrated QB these days without being accused of ulterior motives.

I myself am a religious person and have no problem with an athlete thanking God for a victory, an award, whatever.  I do however get annoyed when its done in such a self-aggrandizing manner and when the media latches onto as some secret to his success, in jest or not.  Tebow's incredibly outspoken manner, and subsequent attention as a result, kind of does a disservice to every other Christian player who doesn't feel the need to drop to a knee cause he got a first down.  I have no problem with his faith and would respect him for it if I didn't disagree with how he went about it.  Aaron Rodgers had a good quote on it.

Additionally, people are quick to criticize self-centered celebrations but when Tebow does it, he is lauded as an intense competitor despite running around 10 yds away from anyone.  Ive thought the media held him by a double standard going back to his UF days.

If this is too off-topic or what not, feel free to delete it.  I just bristle at being accused of f-ing bigotry cause I don't like him as a player and feel the media's latching onto his religious beliefs to play up his legend is unnecessary.

[MUMac]

I think the problem that a lot of people have with the Tebow thing is that I am watching football to escape for 3 hours on Sunday (more if I have time) and I really don't need any lecture about how Christian someone is or is not.

A lot of the same could be said about the propaganda that gets thrown around most college sports (football the most).

I consider myself a proud American, but I really could do without all the nationalism.

Time to walk away from the fire I probably just started.

I don't see any fire started.  Frankly, I agree completely with you.  I would also include politics.  I can't stand it when the athlete or sportswriter politicize their views.  I watch sports to escape that.  That is also why I detest a White House visit.  It usually is more about who doesn't attend and why.  Make the damn phone call like they used to do and call it a day.

Oops, I guess I just brought politics and religion into this thread.   

[MUMac]

I don't like Tebow only because I think he's a terrible NFL quarterback. If I don't want to hear about his religious views, I turn a deaf ear.

I also applaud the Packers for their stock sale. It's incredibly smart business, strike while the iron is hot. I've said it on here before, but the Packers are a first class run organization.

Agree with everything.  Tebow is a terrble NFL QB.  He wins, but with his talent level, the luck will run out.  He just is not that good.  I also do tune out the religion discussions I am not interested in.

[GGGG]

I myself am a religious person and have no problem with an athlete thanking God for a victory, an award, whatever.  I do however get annoyed when its done in such a self-aggrandizing manner and when the media latches onto as some secret to his success, in jest or not.  Tebow's incredibly outspoken manner, and subsequent attention as a result, kind of does a disservice to every other Christian player who doesn't feel the need to drop to a knee cause he got a first down.  I have no problem with his faith and would respect him for it if I didn't disagree with how he went about it.  Aaron Rodgers had a good quote on it.

As a friend of mine says, just because the product is good doesn't mean that you don't get tired of the advertising.

[ringout]

I do however get annoyed when its done in such a self-aggrandizing manner and when the media latches onto as some secret to his success, in jest or not.  Tebow's incredibly outspoken manner, and subsequent attention as a result, kind of does a disservice to every other Christian player who doesn't feel the need to drop to a knee cause he got a first down.  I have no problem with his faith and would respect him for it if I didn't disagree with how he went about it.  Aaron Rodgers had a good quote on it.

Tebow may be the LEAST self aggrandizing nominally Christian athlete in the NFL.    I am much more critical of those who point to heaven after a TD and do nothing else to support supposed Christian values.

[Spotcheck Billy]

I blame Reggie White for starting all of this.

[MUBurrow]

http://games.espn.go.com/frontpage/football

sigh...