2011-12 NFC North Division

[dwaderoy2004]

Well then you should love this.  Instead of taxes, they raised money to expand the stadium through voluntary stock purchases.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

a serious question for packer fans:

Why do people buy "stock" in the Packers?

I only ask after reading this email in Bill Simmons' NFL picks column this week:

"On Tuesday Packers began offering stock to the public. Stock shares are available for purchase on the Packers web page. The 'stock' certificates are assigned to owners by name. Shares cannot appreciate and they pay no dividend. Shares can't be transferred. There is no exchange or marketplace, and you can only will them to family members. Basically, for $250 you get a piece of paper saying you own part of the team. Shareholders have no ability to buy tickets, no seat licenses, no special benefits, just the certificate that announces you were gullible enough to send the team money for nothing. You do get invited to an annual shareholder meeting, but the shareholders have no decision making ability regarding the future of the team or stadium. It's kind of like a big Facebook account, except Facebook is free. Now get ready for this — they sold $400,000 worth of 'stock' certificates in the first 11 minutes that they were available!"

http://www.grantland.com/blog/the-triangle/post/_/id/11989/the-sports-guys-week-14-picks

Plus, as an owner, you can never bet on football games again.

[only a warrior]

I said there was no way Tebow could beat the Bears, not the Broncos, but Tebow. Tebow didn't beat the Bears, Marion Barber beat the Bears.

Back, back, back to the warning track!!!!   She's gone.  I haven't seen this much back peddling in quite some time.  Typical Bears fan.

[NavinRJohnson]

Back, back, back to the warning track!!!!   She's gone.  I haven't seen this much back peddling in quite some time. 

I have to agree. While Barber clearly is at fault, and Haney clearly sucks, when given the opportunity late in the game, Tebow most assuredly beat the Bears.

[MUMac]

To be honest, no. If I'm supporting my team monetarily, I want something from it, ie. jersey, hat, etc.  Why should someone else profit of my money and I get nothing in return?

Of course, I'm also one of those who believe public money should never be used to build a sports stadium.

I bought it the last time they sold it.  Why?  Just to say I have it and frame it.  Same reason why I bought an autographed picture of Brett Favre and Bart Starr - framed and on display.

[MUMac]

Losing Forte on top of Cutler killed the Bears.  It is a shame.  I thought they had a chance to do some damage in the Playoffs.  They are a better team than either Detroit or Atlanta.  If they had Forte, they beat the Chiefs and Broncos.

[MUBurrow]

Despite the lose, good news is it didn't hurt the Bears in the playoff hunt. Their 6-3 conference record is clutch. They own tiebreakers right now with Atlanta, Detroit, NY Giants. They have 3 winable games coming up. There is absolutely no way they lose to Tebow, unless Hanie throws pick 6's. The Bears have way too much speed on defense and are too gap disciplined for that offense to work against the Bears. I actually think that Denver game might be the easiest of their next 3.

really guys? reading between the lines, I thought this game played out EXACTLY the way he predicted it would. the bears defense forced seven three-and-outs, and ten drives of five plays or less. They gave up just over 100 yards total on the ground. The offense that the Broncs were running at the time of the prediction (that read-option) has since been altered slightly to provide more passing opportunities. As of Nov 27, Tebow had averaged 128 yards through the air.  So the speed/gap discipline of the bears forced Tebow to throw the ball literally twice as many times as in any other game this season (save the Lions debacle).  Given all that, I'd be much more inclined to say that its too bad the bears weren't even minimally competent to put that game on ice, rather than point to 110 yards worth of Matt Prater as evidence he's backpedaling or somehow had a faulty analysis.

[MerrittsMustache]

I bought it the last time they sold it.  Why?  Just to say I have it and frame it.  Same reason why I bought an autographed picture of Brett Favre and Bart Starr - framed and on display.

I could have made you a stock owner certificate to hang on the wall for half of what you paid the Packers.

In fact, if anyone wants one, just let me know. Only $125 and you too can pretend to be an owner of an NFL franchise!

[Hards Alumni]

I could have made you a stock owner certificate to hang on the wall for half of what you paid the Packers.

In fact, if anyone wants one, just let me know. Only $125 and you too can pretend to be an owner of an NFL franchise!

I doubt anything you write up would have the 'awe' factor or prestige associated with it.

I would never buy any myself, but people buy things for all sorts of reasons.

At least they can now say without anyone crying about it that "WE WON THE SUPER BOWL!!!"

[MerrittsMustache]

I doubt anything you write up would have the 'awe' factor or prestige associated with it.

I would never buy any myself, but people buy things for all sorts of reasons.

At least they can now say without anyone crying about it that "WE WON THE SUPER BOWL!!!"

One man's "awe factor and prestige" is another man's, "You paid 250 bucks for a worthless piece of paper?!"

You do have a point about the "we" debate though!

[Hards Alumni]

One man's "awe factor and prestige" is another man's, "You paid 250 bucks for a worthless piece of paper?!"

You do have a point about the "we" debate though!

Oh come now, if the Bears started selling stock, you know there would be a line down Michigan Ave.   

[MUMac]

It would be hard to understand if you were a fan of a team other than the Packers.  I would not be interested in something like this for the Bucks, Brewers or any other team.  Or if I were a Bears fan, I would have zero interest in purchasing stock of the Bears.

Having been born, raised in Green Bay and a lifelong Packer fan, the money was inconsequential.  The ability to purchase it and frame it was well worth the money spent.  The fact they do not have an "owner" as other pro teams do, makes them unique.  But, I suspect you have to live it to understand it.

[JWags85]

I have to agree. While Barber clearly is at fault, and Haney clearly sucks, when given the opportunity late in the game, Tebow most assuredly beat the Bears.

I must have missed him kicking the mammoth field goals?  Unless you want to talk about him making dump off throws against the prevent.  He was at best the 3rd most responsible person for this win, AT BEST.

[GGGG]

It would be hard to understand if you were a fan of a team other than the Packers.  I would not be interested in something like this for the Bucks, Brewers or any other team.  Or if I were a Bears fan, I would have zero interest in purchasing stock of the Bears.

Having been born, raised in Green Bay and a lifelong Packer fan, the money was inconsequential.  The ability to purchase it and frame it was well worth the money spent.  The fact they do not have an "owner" as other pro teams do, makes them unique.  But, I suspect you have to live it to understand it.

I agree.  I have a share on my office wall.  To me, it's the equivalent of an autographed jersey.

[NavinRJohnson]

I must have missed him kicking the mammoth field goals?  Unless you want to talk about him making dump off throws against the prevent.  He was at best the 3rd most responsible person for this win, AT BEST.

Apparently you were in the bathroom for the TD, and the 24 plays, and 135 yards that even put them in position to have shot at those FG's. It wasn't one drive, it was 3. I'll say again, when the opportunity presented it late in the game, Tebow beat the Bears. Of course nobody does it alone, but he made the plays he had to make.The argument was that he would not be able to beat the Bears' defense. Those 13 points at the end of the game certainly tell a different story.

[mugrad2006]

Apparently you were in the bathroom for the TD, and the 24 plays, and 135 yards that even put them in position to have shot at those FG's. It wasn't one drive, it was 3. I'll say again, when the opportunity presented it late in the game, Tebow beat the Bears. Of course nobody does it alone, but he made the plays he had to make.The argument was that he would not be able to beat the Bears' defense. Those 13 points at the end of the game certainly tell a different story.

I'm not a Bears fan or a Broncos fan, but I sat down to watch this game.  I spent three quarters just laughing at Tebow and those ducks he threw.  He completed something like 3 or 4 passes through the first three quarters.  Fourth quarter comes along,  and he completes 70%+ for the rest of the game.  I still think he looked like crap, and he misses receivers by a wider margin more often than anyone else in the league, but somehow he's got a switch.

Just ridiculous, although with Cutler and Forte I think the Bears win this game by 10.

[JWags85]

Apparently you were in the bathroom for the TD, and the 24 plays, and 135 yards that even put them in position to have shot at those FG's. It wasn't one drive, it was 3. I'll say again, when the opportunity presented it late in the game, Tebow beat the Bears. Of course nobody does it alone, but he made the plays he had to make.The argument was that he would not be able to beat the Bears' defense. Those 13 points at the end of the game certainly tell a different story.

The Bears played a ridiculously soft prevent defense on the TD drive.  I firmly put all the blame on the coaches for that one.  If you watch those drives and compare them to the rest of the game, he didn't complete any exceptional throws or do anything different, the Bears just forced him to make more difficult throws all game and he didn't.  And then the D softened up.  Thats coaching.  One of the main passes to get them into position for the tying FG was a horrific throw but an amazing catch by Thomas.  This one is firmly on coaching, besides Barber, for me.  The Bears D tightened up immediately as soon as they got near the 40-45, why they didn't play the same way earlier I'll never know.  I hate the prevent with a passion unless there are 10 seconds left and you're up more than 3.

If you are honestly lauding a QB for getting his team in position for a SIXTY YARD FG, then yes, you are bought into the hype.  There are probably 3 kickers in the league I trust to make that kick and unfortunately Prater is one of them.  But lets focus more on Saint Timothy for getting them there.

[DegenerateDish]

Infinity % stand by what I said, I won't back down from it for a second. I'm not back pedaling at all, if you're not a Bears fan or a Packer fan, you know damn well that the Bears lost this game more than Tebow/Broncos won it.

Through 3 quarters, Tebow is 3 for 18 passing, fumble, pick. Tell me how that helped put the Broncos in position to win. Go to the 4th quarter, Bears go to prevent defense, Tebow goes 18-24 with a TD, his team is STILL down 3 with 2:08 left.

Bears either need 1 first down, or can take a knee 3 times and punt. If they do the latter, the Broncos get the ball back at their own 11 with at most 19 seconds on the clock, no time outs. Barber goes out of bounds, saving the Broncos a precious 40 seconds to get in FG range.

In OT, Bears are in FG range with the ball. Barber fumbles, giving the Broncos possession and only needing approx 30-35 yds to get in FG range.

Tell me what dynamic, game saving/game winning play Tim Tebow made to beat the Bears. This game was so much more lost by the Bears than won by the Broncos.

[Spotcheck Billy]

^ anyway.... I had a really good laugh after Cobb stepped out of bounds but the replay system was broke so the Raiders couldn't challenge the missed call

[NavinRJohnson]

But lets focus more on Saint Timothy for getting them there.

Thanks for at least pointing out where the disdain is really coming from for you and so many others. For the life of me, I can't figure out what it  is that makes people so uncomfortable, jealousy, bigotry, insecurity...I don't know, but it is clearly there for a whole lot of people.

[Benny B]

I am a die-hard Packer fan.  I don't own stock, but I've considered it.  Frankly, it's not worth it to me... primarily because I like to gamble on sports.

In any event, to those of you wanting to criticize the stock offering and those who buy, I would suggest you take a look in your own closet before waging judgement upon others.  If you don't have an otherwise "worthless" possession on which you have placed value, then you must lead a very sad and hollow life.

Honestly, I can't believe what some people pay for vintage Coca-Cola stuff, but indeed there's a demand for it... the stuff may trade hands through dealers a dozen times, but eventually, someone out there is going to be completely happy to shell out a cool grand so they can hang an old metal sign in their den.  Same thing with an autographed baseball, game-worn jersey, stadium seat, old post card, vintage comic book, lock of hair, etc.  If you think Packer stock is a waste of money, don't ever watch Pawn Stars... the crap they buy at the prices they charge will drive you completely insane and very likely send you on a murderous rampage.

Personally, I would have paid more than $725 to have the original



even with no hope that I would ever see a return on that money, but that's what the banner sold for in 2009 - $725.  To me, that's a steal... to nearly everyone else, that's a waste of $725.

I could have made you a stock owner certificate to hang on the wall for half of what you paid the Packers.

In fact, if anyone wants one, just let me know. Only $125 and you too can pretend to be an owner of an NFL franchise!

If you forge an autograph or make a replica of something, it has virtually no value at all... even to a serious collector.  Even something that is "worthless" has value if it's authentic.

[GGGG]

Thanks for at least pointing out where the disdain is really coming from for you and so many others. For the life of me, I can't figure out what it  is that makes people so uncomfortable, jealousy, bigotry, insecurity...I don't know, but it is clearly there for a whole lot of people.

I think it is more the over-the-top reporting of Tebow than any disdain for him personally.  Tom Jackson said something like "something is going on here that's unexplainable."  ESPN also uses words like "miracle" to describe yesterday.  Essentially they are implying that God is on his side.

[NavinRJohnson]

If you are honestly lauding a QB for getting his team in position for a SIXTY YARD FG, then yes, you are bought into the hype.  There are probably 3 kickers in the league I trust to make that kick and unfortunately Prater is one of them.  But lets focus more on Saint Timothy for getting them there.

For people who feel they have to dislike Tim Tebow for reasons I cannot begin to understand, I suppose it does have to be one or the other. For others like me, I think it can be both. Will I give a guy credit for getting his team into position to attempt a tying FG in 53 seconds with no timeouts? You bet. Just as a give credit to the kicker (and the altitude). Aaron Rodgers did it last week, and people were wetting themselves. By no means am I comparing the two QB's, just how people react to the two QBs. I don't happen to believe Tebow is an NFL QB. Unfortunately, its clear to me that much (most) of the hatred is not about his abilities as a football player.

[MUMac]

I think it is more the over-the-top reporting of Tebow than any disdain for him personally.  Tom Jackson said something like "something is going on here that's unexplainable."  ESPN also uses words like "miracle" to describe yesterday.  Essentially they are implying that God is on his side.

I would buy that if the attacks did not happen until these comments.  Fact is, they happenned immediately.  See the Lions D-Line when they sacked Tebow, as an example.

Tebow has taken a strong religious position.  Especially a Christian position.  Unfortunately, in America today that means you are subject to ridicule.

I have listenned to interviews with Tebow.  Very impressive how he handles himself and the comments/derision passed his way.

[MerrittsMustache]

Thanks for at least pointing out where the disdain is really coming from for you and so many others. For the life of me, I can't figure out what it  is that makes people so uncomfortable, jealousy, bigotry, insecurity...I don't know, but it is clearly there for a whole lot of people.

Tebow comes across as a religious, goody two shoes and the media has deified him (for lack of a better term) due to his on-field success. Those things individually rub many people the wrong way so when they're combined, it's more than some people can handle. On top of that, he doesn't fit the style of the prototypical NFL QB - he's not throwing beautiful spirals down the field that hit WRs perfectly in stride. He throws ducks, has poor accuracy and has absolutely no issue with firing the ball out of bounds if nothing's there as opposed to trying to force something and "make a play." He also runs like a RB and is built like a TE. That's not the type of QB that people are used to seeing. Many die-hard NFL fans scoff at college football with it's spread offenses and QB options because that kind of Pop Warner offense would never fly in their league. The fact that it's working for Denver right now is incomprehensible to them and, frankly, they don't want to accept it.

That said, I don't blame Elway for not being entirely sold on Tebow. Teams with little margin for error that count on the ball bouncing their way and seem to have tremendous luck rarely have sustained success in any sport.