2011-12 NFC North Division

[jmayer1]

I'm not sure how what I said got taken out of context, but welcome to an internet message board I suppose.

Fact is, and you can ask any NFL scout, Cutler has premier arm strength (Stafford too). Rodgers has above average arm strength.

By no means is it a knock on Rodgers, he's both the best QB in the NFL and has better accuracy than any QB period.

Why that makes Packer fans mad, I have no idea. No one is saying Cutler is better than Rodgers, give me a break. If you can't accept that Rodgers arm strength is above average and less than Cutler's, then you should probably find something else to worry about. Arm strength is a very important part of being a QB, but accuracy even more so.

If you can stop confusing accuracy with arm strength, I think some people would have better thoughts here.

I think because you said premeir and not strength I misconstrued what you were trying to say, my bad. In terms of pure arm stength (distance, velocity) Cutler and Stafford may have betters arms than Rodgers, I don't know and I don't have a chance to talk to scouts. However, as long as a qb has the ability to make all the throws needed in the NFL (and Rodgers certainly does), I don't think it really matters much. Some of the greatest qb's in history didn't always have the strongest arms in the league and some qb's with great arm strength were awful. Cutler does appear to have a very strong arm, but he's only an average NFL starting qb.

[shiloh26]

I think because you said premeir and not strength I misconstrued what you were trying to say, my bad. In terms of pure arm stength (distance, velocity) Cutler and Stafford may have betters arms than Rodgers, I don't know and I don't have a chance to talk to scouts. However, as long as a qb has the ability to make all the throws needed in the NFL (and Rodgers certainly does), I don't think it really matters much. Some of the greatest qb's in history didn't always have the strongest arms in the league and some qb's with great arm strength were awful. Cutler does appear to have a very strong arm, but he's only an average NFL starting qb.

Cutler is definitely an above average quarterback, IMO.  He's finally proving that this year.  It gets said a lot, but he truly does have nothing to work with.  I seriously doubt that any pass catchers on the Bears except for Forte would even crack the Packer's rotation. 

[jesmu84]

so, how long until Suh gets suspended? does goodell meet with him again and tell us all what an upstanding gentleman he is? this is ridiculous. Suh and the lions are a dirty team and not shy about their style of play

[tower912]

Suh deserves whatever he gets.   VandenBosch's hit on Rogers in the first half was clean and a reputation call.   No other defense gets that call.    Same with the chop block call.   Morris cut the guy before the guard engaged.   But, regardless, Detroit is who I thought they were.   Not ready for prime time, can't handle the pressure.

[MUMac]

Suh deserves whatever he gets.   VandenBosch's hit on Rogers in the first half was clean and a reputation call.   No other defense gets that call.    Same with the chop block call.   Morris cut the guy before the guard engaged.   But, regardless, Detroit is who I thought they were.   Not ready for prime time, can't handle the pressure.

If you look at the angle the official had on VandenBosch's hit, it was from behind.  Looking from his angle, Rodgers head snaps back.  To him, it appeared to be a hit to the head.  I know they tell the officials to protect the QB, but you have to witness the hit to call it.  He did not witness it, but assumed it.  Wrong assumption.

The chop block was a bad call as well.  He actually cuts him right before the lineman engages, not after.  This crew was a flag happy crew.  Hurt the flow of the game for awhile.

As for Suh, his postgame interview will likely hurt him more than help him with the Commish.  That was really a pathetic excuse.  I lost any respect I had for him after listening to him.  I suspect his suspension will be significant.

[MUEng92]

The chop block was a bad call as well.  He actually cuts him right before the lineman engages, not after.  This crew was a flag happy crew.  Hurt the flow of the game for awhile.

Found this in an ESPN article (not shockingly discussing a play by the Lions in a previous game):
First, let's get to the general definition of a chop block as stated in the NFL rule book: "A chop block is a foul by the offense in which one offense player (designated as A1 for purposes of this rule) blocks a defensive player in the area of the thigh or lower while another offensive player (A2) occupies that same defensive player."

Indeed, the widely-held understanding of a chop block is one offensive lineman cut-blocking a defensive lineman while another blocks him above the waist. It's a dangerous approach that can lead to the defensive lineman getting twisted unnaturally and injured.

On both occasions Sunday, Peterman (A1) cut-blocked Jets defensive lineman Shaun Ellis while a second Lions offensive lineman (A2) -- right tackle Gosder Cherilus on the first and center Dominic Raiola on the second -- stood nearby but did not engage.

Unfortunately for the Lions, that play falls under a secondary section of the chop block rule known as the "lure." (Dave Birkett of the Detroit Free Press pointed out the explanation earlier this week.) Here is how that scenario is worded: "On a forward pass play, A1 chops a defensive player while A2 confronts the defensive player in a pass-blocking posture but is not physically engaged with the defensive player (a 'lure')."

[MUMac]

Thanks for the clarification.

[MUFC9295]

A fine mess you've gotten yourself into, Erik Walden. 

[tower912]

http://www.freep.com/article/20111127/SPORTS01/111127012/Report-Suh-could-slapped-minimum-two-game-suspension

IMO, he should be gone for the rest of the season.    This is a gift.   

[jesmu84]

the Bears are going to struggle without Cutler. though, in Hanie's defense, Martz's playcalling isn't exactly putting him in a great position to succeed.

[MU B2002]

2nd half was a lot better for Hanie.  I think they still win at home vs KC, home vs SEA, @min, and @ Denver(I hope), but I have picked against Tebow every week and that hasn't gone so well.



edit to include games I forgot.

11 wins surely gets them in.

[jesmu84]

2nd half was a lot better for Hanie.  I think they still win at home vs KC & @ Denver(I hope), but I have picked against Tebow every week and that hasn't gone so well.

i'm not sure 9 wins gets them in the playoffs

[MU B2002]

edit above.

[jmayer1]

2nd half was a lot better for Hanie.  I think they still win at home vs KC & @ Denver(I hope), but I have picked against Tebow every week and that hasn't gone so well.

I think they'll go 3-2 down the stretch, losing to Denver and GB, but that should be enough to get them in the playoffs. Hanie was awful in the 1st half. If the Bears want to be successful they need to put him in better situations and just require him to be a game manager and not make the awful decisions that lead to turnovers. Just let the run game, short throws, and the other 2 phases win them the game; much like they were doing with Cutler.

[DegenerateDish]

That pick right before half was just a killer and the difference (6 point swing) in the game.

[marquette09]

That pick right before half was just a killer and the difference (6 point swing) in the game.

Stupid play call there, run the ball, if you don't make it take the 3 and go into the half winning.

[DegenerateDish]

Despite the lose, good news is it didn't hurt the Bears in the playoff hunt. Their 6-3 conference record is clutch. They own tiebreakers right now with Atlanta, Detroit, NY Giants. They have 3 winable games coming up. There is absolutely no way they lose to Tebow, unless Hanie throws pick 6's. The Bears have way too much speed on defense and are too gap disciplined for that offense to work against the Bears. I actually think that Denver game might be the easiest of their next 3.

[ringout]

There is absolutely no way they lose to Tebow

I'll bet a lot of fans have said this.  Typical Bear fan bluster.

[MU B2002]

I'll bet a lot of fans have said this.  Typical Bear fan bluster.

Actually he backed it up some supporting evidence.

[GGGG]

MUDish is nowhere near a koo-aid drinking, blustery Bears fan.

I think the Giants are going to be out.  They will lose to the Saints tonight, and that will put them at 6-5.  The Cowboys will win the NFC East.  Also the Saints will win the South.

So that means you have two wildcard spots for the Lions, Bears and Falcons.  Bears own the tiebreaker with the Falcons, but Falcons have a relatively easy end (at Houston, at Carolina, Jax, at NO and TB).  I think they go 4-1.

Bears (KC, @Broncos, Seattle, @GB, @MN) could match that...can't see them doing worse than 3-2.

Lions (@NO, MN, @Oak, SD, @GB) at best will go 3-2.  And the two losses would likely be to NO and GB, which will mean their conference record will be worse than the Bears.

So my guess is:

1. GB
2. SF
3. NO
4. Dallas
5. Atlanta
6. Chicago

[MerrittsMustache]

MUDish is nowhere near a koo-aid drinking, blustery Bears fan.

I think the Giants are going to be out.  They will lose to the Saints tonight, and that will put them at 6-5.  The Cowboys will win the NFC East.  Also the Saints will win the South.

So that means you have two wildcard spots for the Lions, Bears and Falcons.  Bears own the tiebreaker with the Falcons, but Falcons have a relatively easy end (at Houston, at Carolina, Jax, at NO and TB).  I think they go 4-1.

Bears (KC, @Broncos, Seattle, @GB, @MN) could match that...can't see them doing worse than 3-2.

Lions (@NO, MN, @Oak, SD, @GB) at best will go 3-2.  And the two losses would likely be to NO and GB, which will mean their conference record will be worse than the Bears.

So my guess is:

1. GB
2. SF
3. NO
4. Dallas
5. Atlanta
6. Chicago

Agree on pretty much all points.

NYG needs to go 4-2 to have a shot. Their last 6 games are @NO, GB, @Dal, Was, @NYJ, Dal. If they go 4-2 with that schedule, they will definitely have earned their playoff spot.

Bears at Green Bay in the Divisional Playoffs? I like it! 

[PBRme]

I don't see the bears beating NO in the wild card

[MU B2002]

I don't see the bears beating NO in the wild card

If they could sneak up into the #5 given the tiebreaker over Atlanta, they could absolutely beat Dallas.

[MUMac]

I don't see the bears beating NO in the wild card

I would like to see the Bears play NO.  I think that would be a good game.  NO is not invincible, but they have a damn impressive offense.  The Bears D against that O would make for an entertaining game.

[MerrittsMustache]

Based on the 7-9 Seahawks hosting a playoff game last season, the NFL didn't change the way teams are seeded this season, did they? As in, division winners may not necessarily be #1-4.

I remember there was some talk of that, but it may have just been media speculation/fiction-writing.

EDIT: Nevermind. Seeding format has not changed.